LordEurope wrote...
I'm sorry but this is something I can't agree with. Neither Kaiden or Ashley are good enough to be Spectres. Spectres are supposed to be the best of the best. They are miles behind Shepard, Saren or that asari Spectre.
What have they done to deserve this? If any of them tries to overrule my command n ME3 I will put a bullet in them.
Uh, you do realize that ME2 game mechanics aren't strictly lore abilities, right?XavierL wrote...
Jzadek72 wrote...
XavierL wrote...
Jzadek72 wrote...
XavierL wrote...
IrishSpectre257 wrote...
They aren't as skilled as Shepard, of course, but they still fought by his side when he defeated Saren. Everyone who ever joined Shepard is skilled enough to be a Spectre, if you asked me.
Kaiden was not recruited. He was already aboard the SR1 from the beginning. Ash was taken aboard because she was a decent shot. She is a good soldier, I agree, but she is just that. a good soldier. Not an amazing one. Just being by Shep's side when he killed Saren isn't enough. By that logic, all of the orignal squad members are worthy of being Spectres, and that idea is a bad joke.
They're all skilled enough, just don't have the demeanour. Unlike Ash, or Kaidan.
Tali is useless in a fight against organics. She couldn't do much against the Collectors. She's only good for fighting mechs and geth. Kaiden can take infantry, but he is useless against the big stuff. Large mechs, Threshers, etc. Wrex is good enough, but he wouldn't be interested. Garrus is worthy of being in the NFL, but he's be 2nd string. Ash just doesn't have it in her. In order for a human soldier to make Spectre, they have to be on Shepard's level. He is the standard for human Spectres, since he was the 1st.
Organics have shields, and use electronics. Tali can easily play merry hell with all of these things. Kaidan is a sentinel - he can take the big stuff on no problem. 'Ash doesn't have it in her' is hardly a swaying argument.
Only a third of organics had shields. The other two thirds had armor or barries. She is useless against 2/3rds of the hazards of the galaxy. Kaiden can't do nearly as much damage to a Thresher or a heavy mech as Ash. Granted, Ash is more apt at taking out larger enemies, she isn't as good at crowd control as Kaiden. Both are polar opposites of each other.
XavierL wrote...
Only a third of organics had shields. The other two thirds had armor or barries. She is useless against 2/3rds of the hazards of the galaxy. Kaiden can't do nearly as much damage to a Thresher or a heavy mech as Ash. Granted, Ash is more apt at taking out larger enemies, she isn't as good at crowd control as Kaiden. Both are polar opposites of each other.
Modifié par didymos1120, 22 avril 2011 - 12:04 .
I stated earlier that I only used Soldier Shepard. I have brought a combination of lore and gameplay to the table here. I've given example after example using both aspects of the game. The bottom line is the only human that we are aware of that's truly worthy of becoming the second human Spectre is Miranda, and that's only if she joines the Alliance.Dean_the_Young wrote...
Uh, you do realize that ME2 game mechanics aren't strictly lore abilities, right?XavierL wrote...
Jzadek72 wrote...
XavierL wrote...
Jzadek72 wrote...
XavierL wrote...
IrishSpectre257 wrote...
They aren't as skilled as Shepard, of course, but they still fought by his side when he defeated Saren. Everyone who ever joined Shepard is skilled enough to be a Spectre, if you asked me.
Kaiden was not recruited. He was already aboard the SR1 from the beginning. Ash was taken aboard because she was a decent shot. She is a good soldier, I agree, but she is just that. a good soldier. Not an amazing one. Just being by Shep's side when he killed Saren isn't enough. By that logic, all of the orignal squad members are worthy of being Spectres, and that idea is a bad joke.
They're all skilled enough, just don't have the demeanour. Unlike Ash, or Kaidan.
Tali is useless in a fight against organics. She couldn't do much against the Collectors. She's only good for fighting mechs and geth. Kaiden can take infantry, but he is useless against the big stuff. Large mechs, Threshers, etc. Wrex is good enough, but he wouldn't be interested. Garrus is worthy of being in the NFL, but he's be 2nd string. Ash just doesn't have it in her. In order for a human soldier to make Spectre, they have to be on Shepard's level. He is the standard for human Spectres, since he was the 1st.
Organics have shields, and use electronics. Tali can easily play merry hell with all of these things. Kaidan is a sentinel - he can take the big stuff on no problem. 'Ash doesn't have it in her' is hardly a swaying argument.
Only a third of organics had shields. The other two thirds had armor or barries. She is useless against 2/3rds of the hazards of the galaxy. Kaiden can't do nearly as much damage to a Thresher or a heavy mech as Ash. Granted, Ash is more apt at taking out larger enemies, she isn't as good at crowd control as Kaiden. Both are polar opposites of each other.
'Defense stripping' was an ME2 gameplay introduction in the first place. Soldiers can just as well kill people with their mad weapon skills, and specialty ammos, and rockets. And Adrennaline Bursts, and bonus powers...
Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 22 avril 2011 - 12:20 .
XavierL wrote...
I stated earlier that I only used Soldier Shepard. I have brought a combination of lore and gameplay to the table here. I've given example after example using both aspects of the game. The bottom line is the only human that we are aware of that's truly worthy of becoming the second human Spectre is Miranda, and that's only if she joines the Alliance.Dean_the_Young wrote...
Uh, you do realize that ME2 game mechanics aren't strictly lore abilities, right?XavierL wrote...
Jzadek72 wrote...
XavierL wrote...
Jzadek72 wrote...
XavierL wrote...
IrishSpectre257 wrote...
They aren't as skilled as Shepard, of course, but they still fought by his side when he defeated Saren. Everyone who ever joined Shepard is skilled enough to be a Spectre, if you asked me.
Kaiden was not recruited. He was already aboard the SR1 from the beginning. Ash was taken aboard because she was a decent shot. She is a good soldier, I agree, but she is just that. a good soldier. Not an amazing one. Just being by Shep's side when he killed Saren isn't enough. By that logic, all of the orignal squad members are worthy of being Spectres, and that idea is a bad joke.
They're all skilled enough, just don't have the demeanour. Unlike Ash, or Kaidan.
Tali is useless in a fight against organics. She couldn't do much against the Collectors. She's only good for fighting mechs and geth. Kaiden can take infantry, but he is useless against the big stuff. Large mechs, Threshers, etc. Wrex is good enough, but he wouldn't be interested. Garrus is worthy of being in the NFL, but he's be 2nd string. Ash just doesn't have it in her. In order for a human soldier to make Spectre, they have to be on Shepard's level. He is the standard for human Spectres, since he was the 1st.
Organics have shields, and use electronics. Tali can easily play merry hell with all of these things. Kaidan is a sentinel - he can take the big stuff on no problem. 'Ash doesn't have it in her' is hardly a swaying argument.
Only a third of organics had shields. The other two thirds had armor or barries. She is useless against 2/3rds of the hazards of the galaxy. Kaiden can't do nearly as much damage to a Thresher or a heavy mech as Ash. Granted, Ash is more apt at taking out larger enemies, she isn't as good at crowd control as Kaiden. Both are polar opposites of each other.
'Defense stripping' was an ME2 gameplay introduction in the first place. Soldiers can just as well kill people with their mad weapon skills, and specialty ammos, and rockets. And Adrennaline Bursts, and bonus powers...
Except the person claiming that standard is, well, you. And you have precisely zero authority in that respect.XavierL wrote...
I stated earlier that I only used Soldier Shepard. I have brought a combination of lore and gameplay to the table here. I've given example after example using both aspects of the game. The bottom line is the only human that we are aware of that's truly worthy of becoming the second human Spectre is Miranda, and that's only if she joines the Alliance.
XavierL wrote...
As for Shepard, I always stick to the soldier (don't hound me for my choice, just stick with me) and as a soldier, Shepard can find a target, and kill them in under 2 seconds (for regular infantry), this is less than the time it takes for most enemies to even pick a target. If he doesn't kill the target in less than 2 seconds, he can empty a full clip (the Mattock) and take out a massive enemy's shields/armor/barrier. Soldier Shepard can take a beating and dish out at a pace that only Spectres can keep up with, and even then, they can barely keep up.
When it comes to candidates for Spectres, there are very few that I'm aware of. The only human candidates would be Miranda and Jack. Whether you like Miranda's character or not, she is an amazing warrior. She can take down synthetics. She's a strong (not amazing but clearly above average) biotic. She was engineered to be superior. Ash/Kaiden were above average at best. Miranda can take either, easily. Jack is a superior biotic. There is no human with better biotics. She can rival a six or seven hundred year old Asari. She is a beast. Personally, I wouldn't give her that status simply because she is too much of a loose cannon and unstable. She is not reliable.
As for Garrus, he might be worthy of Spectre status. He's not as qualified as Shepard or Miranda, and I do not say this lightly. He is my favorite squadmate, and favorite squadmate, but he is only second in ability to Miranda.
If Thane wasn't dying, he could be a good candidate. He knows his way around a gun and he's a pretty good biotic. He get's jobs done and is one of the most efficient killers out there. He is a one man Black Op team.
Samara could be one, if she wanted, but she's a Justicar. She wont bother. Liara is a great biotic, but that's it. She doesn't really have the air of a Spectre.
Wrex could be one. He's a Krogan biotic. Those are rare, and he is deadly. He could manage. Sadly, he wouldn't take the job. He's all about the Krogan, and could give a damn about the Citadel and its affairs.
But, there is yet another factor for Spectres; and that's a sense of duty and reliability. Shepard has them. Nihlus had them. Even Saren, in his own twisted way had them. So did Vesir. That's why I stand behind Miranda as a good candidate. When it comes to a sense of duty and reliability, Ash/Kaiden have them, but they lack in ability. Garrus has the sense of duty.
All in all, Spectires need have amazing combat abilities, a sense of duty and they have to be reliability.
Steffen wrote...
Two years have passed in ME2 since we last saw them, two years is a long time, if Ash/Kaiden were part of the team that saved the citadel they would most likely be very alligable for some sort of spec-ops recruitment spending two years there, and however long ME2 lasts becoming a spectre, adds up to me.
XavierL wrote...
Steffen wrote...
Two years have passed in ME2 since we last saw them, two years is a long time, if Ash/Kaiden were part of the team that saved the citadel they would most likely be very alligable for some sort of spec-ops recruitment spending two years there, and however long ME2 lasts becoming a spectre, adds up to me.
By that logic, every Spec-ops veteran of every race is worthy of becoming a Spectre. Every Salarian in the STG member, every human in Spec-ops, every Krogan battlemaster/warlord, and every Asari commando only needs to put a few years in their respective organization and they are good enough to be a Spectre.
No. Many of you people are throwing the Spectre status around very loosely. It is meant for the exceptional. No, they don't have to super effing amazing at every little thing, but a Spectre has to be someone special.
100k wrote...
XavierL wrote...
As for Shepard, I always stick to the soldier (don't hound me for my choice, just stick with me) and as a soldier, Shepard can find a target, and kill them in under 2 seconds (for regular infantry), this is less than the time it takes for most enemies to even pick a target. If he doesn't kill the target in less than 2 seconds, he can empty a full clip (the Mattock) and take out a massive enemy's shields/armor/barrier. Soldier Shepard can take a beating and dish out at a pace that only Spectres can keep up with, and even then, they can barely keep up.
Or Vanguard. I never really was able to see Shepard as a Adept, Sentinel, or Engineer. But that's because the ME games basically smack you over the head with how badly they want Shepard to be a soldier/vanguard.When it comes to candidates for Spectres, there are very few that I'm aware of. The only human candidates would be Miranda and Jack. Whether you like Miranda's character or not, she is an amazing warrior. She can take down synthetics. She's a strong (not amazing but clearly above average) biotic. She was engineered to be superior. Ash/Kaiden were above average at best. Miranda can take either, easily. Jack is a superior biotic. There is no human with better biotics. She can rival a six or seven hundred year old Asari. She is a beast. Personally, I wouldn't give her that status simply because she is too much of a loose cannon and unstable. She is not reliable.
I sorta agree. Miranda, yes. Jack, not a chance in hell. I think you're taking the line "Spectres aren't trained, they're born" a bit too literal. Yes, both women are stellar combatants, trained and genetically enhanced at birth. But there are a number of staggering problems with them.
Miranda works for Cerberus. She is percieved as an enemy of the Alliance and the Council.
Also, despite her strong confindence, she doesn't inspire loyalty easily. Part of this is (despite the fact that she would likely deny it) the fact that Miranda comes off as very arrogant. I liked this about her, but it is a strong strike against her. The Council likely chooses candidates who are both able to dominate on the battlefield, and in diplomacy, with the full understanding that a truely compentant Spectre could choose to utilize at least of these skills in the field. Miranda's diplomacy/inspiration skills are strong, but only within the realm of Cerberus where she achieve elite status.
Hang on, cheerleader, no one wants to take orders from you!
Shepard and Garrus seem to have trust and charisma eminating from them unconciously. Anyone who sees them instantly realises that these two are to be respected, feared, and followed. Experience, intelligence, creativeness, curiosity, history, cooperation, all of these things come naturally to a "born" Spectre. They can inspire others with minimal effort, to maximum effect. Nihilus, Saren, Anderson, and Shepard are definitive examples of these traits at work.
However, in regards to Miranda actually being able to achieve Spectre status, I have a few points in her favor. We'll use Tela as an example.
Tela Vasir was probably a cop or detective-commando before her rise to Spectre. She's resourceful, deceptive, and able to innovate, even under pressure. Not to mention that she's got biotic and combat skills that probably rival a Justicar. Miranda fits all of these stats perfectly. Clever, cunning, and just as effective as a lone operative as she is a Cerberus leader, Miranda's ability to get the job done with less diplomacy, and more innovation would be a huge plus for her.
Jack, however, is highly insecure. Her biotic prowess may be impressive, but why should the Council even concider her worthy of an evaluation? Her biotcs alone are probably slightly below that of a Matriarch, so why wouldn't they just choose a Matriarch for the position? Plus, she's not interested in anyone other than herself. She has little leadership skills, little postitve reputation, and her gang affiliations would be laughed at.As for Garrus, he might be worthy of Spectre status. He's not as qualified as Shepard or Miranda, and I do not say this lightly. He is my favorite squadmate, and favorite squadmate, but he is only second in ability to Miranda.
I would disagree. He is easily the best qualified, pushing Miranda down to a respectable second place. Spectres are often supposed to gain resources and personel by themselves. Garrus did this and more, terrorizing the criminals of Omega and pissing off every merc band while he was at it. He gathered a team, started a mission, and failed due to betrayal. He probably could have challenged Aria if his team had gained enough momentum.
On top of that, his training sh!ts on anything Miranda experienced (all due respect her her). She was educated in prestegous schools, probably learned advanced biotic and weapons training while at Cerberus, among other things. But Garrus? He probably had the worst job in the world: working as a top agent for C sec. It's the equivalent of being a cop in NYC. He probably saw everything there was to see in the galaxy, from gang warfare to mad scientists harvesting organs in people.
He is charismatic (though I get the feeling most Turian males are), he's resourceful, he's dangerous as all hell, he's idealistic but careful, and he's not wreckless as some people seem to think. I believe he described his attacks on Omega as "clean and surgical". He knows what he's doing. Everyone on the Normandy respects Garrus. Hell, most of them like him. I get the strong feeling that the events of ME1 and ME2 will shape Garrus into the Spectre he deserves to be in ME3. Shepard is Garrus's evaluator, just as Nihlus was Shepard's.If Thane wasn't dying, he could be a good candidate. He knows his way around a gun and he's a pretty good biotic. He get's jobs done and is one of the most efficient killers out there. He is a one man Black Op team.
Thane's lack of diplomatic, or even conversational skills would be a massive strike against him. A Spectre has to be more than just a really good fighter. Other wise there would be millions of them.Samara could be one, if she wanted, but she's a Justicar. She wont bother. Liara is a great biotic, but that's it. She doesn't really have the air of a Spectre.
Agreed. Samara wouldn't take it, despite the fact that she would probably even stronger than Shepard. Liara is just a really good fighter, not really Spectre material.Wrex could be one. He's a Krogan biotic. Those are rare, and he is deadly. He could manage. Sadly, he wouldn't take the job. He's all about the Krogan, and could give a damn about the Citadel and its affairs.
On top of that, Wrex is one of the few Krogan who thinks things through. At one time he was probably like Grunt; obssessed with killing and glory, but now Wrex is older and wiser. He has purpose. Even the Council would respect a Krogan with purpose.But, there is yet another factor for Spectres; and that's a sense of duty and reliability. Shepard has them. Nihlus had them. Even Saren, in his own twisted way had them. So did Vesir. That's why I stand behind Miranda as a good candidate. When it comes to a sense of duty and reliability, Ash/Kaiden have them, but they lack in ability. Garrus has the sense of duty.
All in all, Spectires need have amazing combat abilities, a sense of duty and they have to be reliability.
But also innovation, and charisma. These things, unconciously or not, would attract the Council to make a descion on who should be a Spectre.
If the choice came down to it, I am with you 100% that Garrus and Miranda would be the best candidates. Zaeed is too old. Kasumi is too...unavailable. Grunt is too careless.
I just think that Garrus embodies everything Spectres represent, and Miranda embodies most of what the Spectres represent.
MajesticJazz wrote...
Still waiting for someone to show where it has been firmed that the VS is a Spectre in ME3....
In the PS3M article.. There are scans in the facepunch.com -> Mass Effect Megathread.MajesticJazz wrote...
Still waiting for someone to show where it has been firmed that the VS is a Spectre in ME3....
XavierL wrote...
When it comes to one-on-one combat, only a Spectre should be able to kill another Spectre. Of course, there are exceptions, (Justicars who are in the Matriarch stage, or a Salarian in the Leauge of one, or super-human creations like Jack or Miranda) but that means there are very few people in the galaxy that can kill a Spectre. Out of the hundreds of billions of people in the galaxy, only a few hundred thousand people can become or kill a Spectre.
Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 22 avril 2011 - 12:45 .
CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
And if Mordin were 10 years younger, I'd make him a Spectre in a heartbeat.
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