Now I am not saying this game is the worst ever made and what not. But I think at this point it is safe to asume that they succeded in pissing off most of their long time fans and brought in very few new ones. At some point they will have to come out and say that yes this game did not performe as they wanted it to. Just wondering how long that might take.
I just hope that time will coincide with DA3 if they make it.
How long untill Bioware admits they messed this game up?
Débuté par
JasonPogo
, avril 21 2011 09:51
Retour en haut
#3
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 09:59
toggled
-
- Members
- 159 messages
When DA3 is released, they'll say something about DA2 not living up to expectations for some folk, then go on about how DA3 is way better than both DA:O and DA2. Whether or not DA3 will actually be an improvement over the fiasco known as DA2 - who knows.
#4
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:04
orbit991
-
- Members
- 511 messages
toggled wrote...
When DA3 is released, they'll say something about DA2 not living up to expectations for some folk, then go on about how DA3 is way better than both DA:O and DA2. Whether or not DA3 will actually be an improvement over the fiasco known as DA2 - who knows.
Bingo, though I'd say a couple months before release to get the old fans on the pre order wagon.
#5
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:06
BLunted
-
- Members
- 271 messages
JasonPogo wrote...
How long untill Bioware admits they messed this game up?
If the post release interviews with Laidlaw are any indication, probably never...
They are still under the mistaken impression that the direction they have taken the franchise was the correct one.
Modifié par BLunted, 21 avril 2011 - 10:07 .
#7
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:28
TGiNcRySiS
-
- Members
- 147 messages
The game doesn't suck but it isn't good. Huge letdown. They will rebound with ME3 but I don't expect much from DA3. As long as EA rules the world all is lost.
#8
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:34
DarthCaine
-
- Members
- 7 175 messages
You want them to admit they cut corners to make a quick buck? I don't really expect them to put a sign that says: "We rushed DA2 and cut corners just because we wanted to cash in on DAO's success."
But when they announce DA3 they will say that certain things were disliked since they wanna promote the game to everyone (just like when Peter Molyneux said Fable 2 had bad design and they weren't gonna make the same mistakes with Fable 3, and then made Fable 3 an even worse game)
But when they announce DA3 they will say that certain things were disliked since they wanna promote the game to everyone (just like when Peter Molyneux said Fable 2 had bad design and they weren't gonna make the same mistakes with Fable 3, and then made Fable 3 an even worse game)
#9
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:36
Galad22
-
- Members
- 860 messages
DarthCaine wrote...
You want them to admit they cut corners to make a quick buck? I don't really expect them to put a sign that says: "We rushed DA2 and cut corners just because we wanted to cash in on DAO's success."
But when they announce DA3 they will say that certain things were disliked since they wanna promote the game to everyone (just like when Peter Molyneux said Fable 2 had bad design and they weren't gonna make the same mistakes with Fable 3, and then made Fable 3 an even worse game)
If they admitted this they would get thumbs up from me for being honest at least.
Modifié par Galad22, 21 avril 2011 - 10:37 .
#10
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:38
kingjezza
-
- Members
- 578 messages
Mike Laidlaw has made the game he wanted and fixed all the crappy bits in Origins he didn't like, I see no reason or evidence to suggest this isn't a genuine feeling from him, his suggestion seems to be it's the players fault for not getting it rather than them messing up so I think people will be waiting a long time to see a full on admission that DA2 was a huge [moose] up on their behalf.
Who knows what others at Bioware think, we haven't really heard from anybody but Laidlaw so we don't know how others feel and whether they feel they messed up, I wouldn't expect them to just come out and say it even if they did.
[no foul language, please]
Who knows what others at Bioware think, we haven't really heard from anybody but Laidlaw so we don't know how others feel and whether they feel they messed up, I wouldn't expect them to just come out and say it even if they did.
[no foul language, please]
Modifié par Stanley Woo, 21 avril 2011 - 11:41 .
#11
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:43
DarthCaine
-
- Members
- 7 175 messages
I don't believe that. Almost all of the design and story descisions were made 'cos they wanted to make the game with a small budget and short development time. It wasn't about making it better, it was about making money off BioWare's reputation.kingjezza wrote...
Mike Laidlaw has made the game he wanted and fixed all the crappy bits in Origins he didn't like
DAO sold pretty good, but had a big budget and a very long development cycle, so the net balance isn't that good. And you can't have that with EA.
ME2 on the other hand, maybe got dumbed down, but almost all of the design choices were about making a better game. DA2's design choices were cutting corners
#12
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:43
kingjezza
-
- Members
- 578 messages
We can't say [Phil], as in male chicken? A huge male chicken simply doesn't sound as harsh as what the four **** might imply I said if you didn't know.
[no foul language, please]
[no foul language, please]
Modifié par Stanley Woo, 21 avril 2011 - 11:42 .
#13
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:46
Ariella
-
- Members
- 3 693 messages
Might I suggest that many of the changes that the Dev team instituted were based on fan feedback. Did they swing to far in the opposite direction, maybe. I doubt they'll ever see it as messing up, nor should they. The team took some risks that didn't pan out for certain segments of people and when they go through all the feedback, the developers will start looking for better ways to balance between the two experiences of DAO and DA2.
Might I also suggest that not everyone thought DA2 was a fail, and that those of us who enjoy DA2, don't see the need for an apology, any more than the team should have apologized for certain subjective elements that fans didn't like in DAO.
Might I also suggest that not everyone thought DA2 was a fail, and that those of us who enjoy DA2, don't see the need for an apology, any more than the team should have apologized for certain subjective elements that fans didn't like in DAO.
#14
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:50
Maverick827
-
- Members
- 3 193 messages
When promoting DA3 they'll likely mention things that went wrong with the fans in their eyes, but note the last part of that sentence: "in their eyes." Ultimately the game follows their interpretation of what worked and what did not, an interpretation which is influenced but not controlled by fan outrage.
And this is a good thing. Mob rule is a terrible way to run anything, let alone a business.
And this is a good thing. Mob rule is a terrible way to run anything, let alone a business.
#15
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:53
TJSolo
-
- Members
- 2 256 messages
Mob rule is a great way to do things, it assures that at least one group will be pleased but it sucks when you are part of a disagreeing mob.
#16
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:54
Elhanan
-
- Members
- 18 551 messages
Ariella wrote...
Might I suggest that many of the changes that the Dev team instituted were based on fan feedback. Did they swing to far in the opposite direction, maybe. I doubt they'll ever see it as messing up, nor should they. The team took some risks that didn't pan out for certain segments of people and when they go through all the feedback, the developers will start looking for better ways to balance between the two experiences of DAO and DA2.
Might I also suggest that not everyone thought DA2 was a fail, and that those of us who enjoy DA2, don't see the need for an apology, any more than the team should have apologized for certain subjective elements that fans didn't like in DAO.
This. Ditto. Twice.
#17
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 10:58
kingjezza
-
- Members
- 578 messages
DarthCaine wrote...
I don't believe that. Almost all of the design and story descisions were made 'cos they wanted to make the game with a small budget and short development time. It wasn't about making it better, it was about making money off BioWare's reputation.kingjezza wrote...
Mike Laidlaw has made the game he wanted and fixed all the crappy bits in Origins he didn't like
DAO sold pretty good, but had a big budget and a very long development cycle, so the net balance isn't that good. And you can't have that with EA.
ME2 on the other hand, maybe got dumbed down, but almost all of the design choices were about making a better game. DA2's design choices were cutting corners
I have no doubts some was down to budgetary constraints, that's fairly obvious but it doesn't explain away the crappy arcade style wave combat and the new cartoony art style, plenty of stuff was changed as well simply because they wanted to, for me they are bad design choices but some like it so each to their own.
I'm not looking for an apology or anything silly like that and I don't care if Bioware say they messed up or not in all honesty, they made a game, I think it sucks and I'll vote with my wallet and not purchase anything else to do with DA2.
More important things to worry about really aint there
#18
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 11:00
Galad22
-
- Members
- 860 messages
Maverick827 wrote...
When promoting DA3 they'll likely mention things that went wrong with the fans in their eyes, but note the last part of that sentence: "in their eyes." Ultimately the game follows their interpretation of what worked and what did not, an interpretation which is influenced but not controlled by fan outrage.
And this is a good thing. Mob rule is a terrible way to run anything, let alone a business.
Since DA2 is more similar to Mass Effect than to Origins, this just doesn't ring true. Obviously ME was a success but so was Dragon Age:Origins.
#19
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 11:09
Miashi
-
- Members
- 377 messages
"How long untill Bioware admits they messed this game up?"
I hope you're patient because I doubt it's going to happen
I hope you're patient because I doubt it's going to happen
#20
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 11:12
BeefoTheBold
-
- Members
- 957 messages
Formal, outright apology?
Never in a million years. Or at least not unless new management gets brought in, which will be the company's implied way of saying that they messed up and in turn will free up the new management to say it.
Informal apology? Well, I think how this will show is in what some of their public statements are like and the course that you see Dragon Age 3 developing in.
If you start seeing previews highlighting and emphasizing things that strongly resemble Dragon Age Origins, then you'll know that, internally at least, they think that they made a mistake in DA2. If, on the other hand, you see the development progression of DA3 going along the same pathlines as DA2, then you'll know that they don't think any mistakes were made except for perhaps not going FAR ENOUGH after the COD crowd.
And, sadly, this will be the first time ever that I will follow the development of a Bioware game very closely instead of deliberately trying not to be exposed so I can be surprised.
Never in a million years. Or at least not unless new management gets brought in, which will be the company's implied way of saying that they messed up and in turn will free up the new management to say it.
Informal apology? Well, I think how this will show is in what some of their public statements are like and the course that you see Dragon Age 3 developing in.
If you start seeing previews highlighting and emphasizing things that strongly resemble Dragon Age Origins, then you'll know that, internally at least, they think that they made a mistake in DA2. If, on the other hand, you see the development progression of DA3 going along the same pathlines as DA2, then you'll know that they don't think any mistakes were made except for perhaps not going FAR ENOUGH after the COD crowd.
And, sadly, this will be the first time ever that I will follow the development of a Bioware game very closely instead of deliberately trying not to be exposed so I can be surprised.
#21
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 11:14
Seena
-
- Members
- 510 messages
Why anyone would think Bioware "owes" an apology is beyond me. Seriously the sense of entitlement some gamers have just blows me away.
#22
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 11:15
upsettingshorts
-
- Members
- 13 950 messages
The answer is in the leadup to Dragon Age 3. I wouldn't hold my breath that they "admit" that they "messed up" everything everyone wants them to, however.
I would not be shocked by something along the lines of:
"We want to do what DA2 did, better, while trying to reintegrate elements of Origins that we and our fans found missing."
Which would sound good to everyone without actually promising anything specific. So expect something like that.
I would not be shocked by something along the lines of:
"We want to do what DA2 did, better, while trying to reintegrate elements of Origins that we and our fans found missing."
Which would sound good to everyone without actually promising anything specific. So expect something like that.
Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 21 avril 2011 - 11:17 .
#23
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 11:18
BeefoTheBold
-
- Members
- 957 messages
Seena wrote...
Why anyone would think Bioware "owes" an apology is beyond me. Seriously the sense of entitlement some gamers have just blows me away.
Gosh I know!
Heaven forbid that longtime loyal customers who have been buying Bioware's RPG games for years and suddenly had something resembling Dynasty Warriors sold to them under the Dragon Age name for $50, $60 or more might feel a little ripped off.
How dare customers feel that their financial support for a company's products entitles them to complain if they feel an inferior product was foisted onto them?
Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 21 avril 2011 - 11:18 .
#24
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 11:20
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
-
- Guests
When they start development for DA3, Mark Darrah, Mike Laidlaw and David Gaider will probably bash DA2 and point out its flaws, and how they improved upon it in every way, and how they "weren't going to rest on their laurels" .
Just like they did in the developer diaries for DA2, where they also bashed Origins, if i'm not mistaken.
Just like they did in the developer diaries for DA2, where they also bashed Origins, if i'm not mistaken.
#25
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 11:22
AtreiyaN7
-
- Members
- 8 398 messages
They might say it underperformed depending on the ultimate outcome (call me after two years-odd of sales and let me know how it all turns out), but if you're expecting an apology in a year or two or three...don't.
Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 21 avril 2011 - 11:23 .
