233 réponses à ce sujet

[JasonPogo]

How did this turn into looking for an apology? I was just saying that the game fell flat on its face. Like the game or hate the game I don't think this is the reception Bioware was hoping the game would get. I just want Bioware to say that yes the changes did not go over well. Origins was loved, DA2 was panned so we will get off the bandwagon and make real games again.

Modifié par JasonPogo, 21 avril 2011 - 11:34 .

[Seena]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Seena wrote...

Why anyone would think Bioware "owes" an apology is beyond me. Seriously the sense of entitlement some gamers have just blows me away.

Gosh I know!

Heaven forbid that longtime loyal customers who have been buying Bioware's RPG games for years and suddenly had something resembling Dynasty Warriors sold to them under the Dragon Age name for $50, $60 or more might feel a little ripped off.

How dare customers feel that their financial support for a company's products entitles them to complain if they feel an inferior product was foisted onto them?

Wah Wah Wah

Perhaps those "loyal customers" should know - if you have a low threashold for disappointment -  don't buy a game on release - wait for the reviews, etc.

If you feel "ripped off" - you have only yourself to blame.

[Dracotamer]

LOL. They will never openly or clearly admit it.

[Kusy]

Dragon Age 2 is messed up as much as KOTOR2 was messed up. It's buggy, unfinished, has a rushed ending that makes little sense. Both games are memorable and good... but still messed up.

[BeefoTheBold]

Seena wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Seena wrote...

Why anyone would think Bioware "owes" an apology is beyond me. Seriously the sense of entitlement some gamers have just blows me away.

Gosh I know!

Heaven forbid that longtime loyal customers who have been buying Bioware's RPG games for years and suddenly had something resembling Dynasty Warriors sold to them under the Dragon Age name for $50, $60 or more might feel a little ripped off.

How dare customers feel that their financial support for a company's products entitles them to complain if they feel an inferior product was foisted onto them?

Wah Wah Wah

Perhaps those "loyal customers" should know - if you have a low threashold for disappointment -  don't buy a game on release - wait for the reviews, etc.

If you feel "ripped off" - you have only yourself to blame.

Gosh I know!

How dare customers rely on Bioware's proven track record of success and reward them by preordering a game on the assumption that the sequel to a AAA title will also be a very good game.

Further, how dare they deliberately choose not to research too closely because they want to avoid any details on the storyline of an RPG?

I know, for instance, that anyone who has a favorite author who they've read for years and buys the next book in a series without spending hours exhaustedly investigating to ensure that the next book in a series is both A) Actually good and Does things like, I dunno, continue the storyline from the previous book in the series is completely naive!

[Seena]

BeefoTheBold wrote...



Gosh I know!

How dare customers rely on Bioware's proven track record of success and reward them by preordering a game on the assumption that the sequel to a AAA title will also be a very good game.

Further, how dare they deliberately choose not to research too closely because they want to avoid any details on the storyline of an RPG?

I know, for instance, that anyone who has a favorite author who they've read for years and buys the next book in a series without spending hours exhaustedly investigating to ensure that the next book in a series is both A) Actually good and Does things like, I dunno, continue the storyline from the previous book in the series is completely naive!

If 60 bucks is such a big deal, again, spending it blindly - is foolish.

Before I go to a movie, I read the reviews.  Before I buy an appliance - I read the reviews. Before I drop dime on a hardcover book - I read the reviews.

You want pre-order with all the shinies? - That's greed and an inability to delay satisfaction.

Your choice of course- but when you don't like what you purchased without any knowledge of how the game would play - again, you have no one to blame - but yourself.  Not the game developers.

Sheesh.

[JasonPogo]

Seena and Beef. Could we keep this on topic plez. No need to fight over a fans right to ****.

[Kusy]

BeefoTheBold wrote...
How dare customers rely on Bioware's proven track record of success and reward them by preordering a game on the assumption that the sequel to a AAA title will also be a very good game.

Further, how dare they deliberately choose not to research too closely because they want to avoid any details on the storyline of an RPG?

I know, for instance, that anyone who has a favorite author who they've read for years and buys the next book in a series without spending hours exhaustedly investigating to ensure that the next book in a series is both A) Actually good and Does things like, I dunno, continue the storyline from the previous book in the series is completely naive!

A cliche argument destroyed. Well played sir.

[Seena]

JasonPogo wrote...

Seena and Beef. Could we keep this on topic plez. No need to fight over a fans right to ****.

This isn't a fight over a fan's right to complain.

It is calling BS on a fan's sense of entitlement to an apology.

[Ariella]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

When they start development for DA3, Mark Darrah, Mike Laidlaw and David Gaider will probably bash DA2 and point out its flaws, and how they improved upon it in every way, and how they "weren't going to rest on their laurels" .

Just like they did in the developer diaries for DA2, where they also bashed Origins, if i'm not mistaken.

They didn't bash Origins, they pointed out places where they got negative criticism on the game, and thus tried ti improve upon those things like the color palate or the art design (both of which were panned in Origins by many people).

As they've probably already started development on DA3, they'll do the same thing and see what were the biggest problems fans had, what worked, what didn't, what they can improve on, what to leave along. A lot of that will be based on fan feedback. But it doesn't mean it's bashing the game, it means they listen to the fanbase and try and improve their product.

[thesuperdarkone]

Seena wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

Seena and Beef. Could we keep this on topic plez. No need to fight over a fans right to ****.

This isn't a fight over a fan's right to complain.

It is calling BS on a fan's sense of entitlement to an apology.

 

And I assume you read the reviews and still bought the game because some say it's a disappointment. Sektor is not amused:

[BeefoTheBold]

Seena wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...



Gosh I know!

How dare customers rely on Bioware's proven track record of success and reward them by preordering a game on the assumption that the sequel to a AAA title will also be a very good game.

Further, how dare they deliberately choose not to research too closely because they want to avoid any details on the storyline of an RPG?

I know, for instance, that anyone who has a favorite author who they've read for years and buys the next book in a series without spending hours exhaustedly investigating to ensure that the next book in a series is both A) Actually good and Does things like, I dunno, continue the storyline from the previous book in the series is completely naive!

If 60 bucks is such a big deal, again, spending it blindly - is foolish.

Before I go to a movie, I read the reviews.  Before I buy an appliance - I read the reviews. Before I drop dime on a hardcover book - I read the reviews.

You want pre-order with all the shinies? - That's greed and an inability to delay satisfaction.

Your choice of course- but when you don't like what you purchased without any knowledge of how the game would play - again, you have no one to blame - but yourself.  Not the game developers.

Sheesh.

Alright, enough sarcasm on my part.

The money isn't a big deal at all. I could go into the bathroom and flush it down the toiled the next time I feel the need to take a dump and it wouldn't materially impact me.

What I don't get is how people like you see no connection whatsoever to the very natural expectation that the sequel to a AAA game would play very similar and have the same level of quality to the previous AAA game with some tweaks and minor improvements, not a complete overhaul.

Expecting that is not naive blindness. It is a natural and logical assumption that gamers have been making for many, MANY years. To borrow from a different part of EA's game lineup, it's like expecting that Madden Football 2011 will be fairly similar to Madden 2010. You don't expect it to suddenly transform into a basketball game.

Further, your analogy is completely faulty because you're leaving out two incredibly important pieces:

1. Bioware's track record until recent memory. - You never did address the analogy of the favorite author.

Certain companies build up and establish credibility. It's the entire point to a preorder. There's an implied promise between the developer and the fanbase built into the joint history they have together. And for AAA titles, yes, it is completely normal to preorder to ensure you get an early copy when a certain level of quality is reasonably ensured.

When that implied promise is broken, yes, the developer shares blame. Don't try and tell me that Bioware didn't know things like, for example, the recycled environments weren't going to be negatively received.

2. The utter departure from a AAA title.

Name the last game that was a AAA title that got completely overhauled with the sequel. Did God of War 2 completely change up everything from God of War 1? Or how about Halo 2 vs Halo 1?

And this, yes, a developer shares faults for this as well. Particularly when the new game carries the same name as the previous one.

As with #1 above, a game carrying the same name carries the expectation that it will be the same type of game.

[BeefoTheBold]

Seena wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

Seena and Beef. Could we keep this on topic plez. No need to fight over a fans right to ****.

This isn't a fight over a fan's right to complain.

It is calling BS on a fan's sense of entitlement to an apology.

If you read further up, my very first post stated outright that the chances of an apology ever happening were virtually non-existant.

I don't require an apology or need one. I do, however, reserve the right to point a very deserving finger of blame at a company who would have had to be hopelessly naive not to know at least a part of how badly this game would be received for, if nothing else, things like the recycled environments and bugs.

This was a cash-in on a developer's name and fans of that developer have every right to be pissed off.

Nor would I call this a fight. A fight involved anger between the parties involved. I am perfectly capable of being extremely sarcastic without being angry.

[TwistedComplex]

They'll admit it when you all stop making these threads


Never

[Cutlass Jack]

TwistedComplex wrote...

They'll admit it when you all stop making these threads


Never

*ding ding* We have a winner.

[MorrigansLove]

Love your sig, TwistedComplex.

[Seena]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Alright, enough sarcasm on my part.

The money isn't a big deal at all. I could go into the bathroom and flush it down the toiled the next time I feel the need to take a dump and it wouldn't materially impact me.

What I don't get is how people like you see no connection whatsoever to the very natural expectation that the sequel to a AAA game would play very similar and have the same level of quality to the previous AAA game with some tweaks and minor improvements, not a complete overhaul.

Expecting that is not naive blindness. It is a natural and logical assumption that gamers have been making for many, MANY years. To borrow from a different part of EA's game lineup, it's like expecting that Madden Football 2011 will be fairly similar to Madden 2010. You don't expect it to suddenly transform into a basketball game.

Further, your analogy is completely faulty because you're leaving out two incredibly important pieces:

1. Bioware's track record until recent memory. - You never did address the analogy of the favorite author.

Certain companies build up and establish credibility. It's the entire point to a preorder. There's an implied promise between the developer and the fanbase built into the joint history they have together. And for AAA titles, yes, it is completely normal to preorder to ensure you get an early copy when a certain level of quality is reasonably ensured.

When that implied promise is broken, yes, the developer shares blame. Don't try and tell me that Bioware didn't know things like, for example, the recycled environments weren't going to be negatively received.

2. The utter departure from a AAA title.

Name the last game that was a AAA title that got completely overhauled with the sequel. Did God of War 2 completely change up everything from God of War 1? Or how about Halo 2 vs Halo 1?

And this, yes, a developer shares faults for this as well. Particularly when the new game carries the same name as the previous one.

As with #1 above, a game carrying the same name carries the expectation that it will be the same type of game.

Your disappointment could have EASILY been avoided by deferring your need to get the shiny  - and simply wait a month to see how the game formed up.

You didn't wait - and now you're crying that Bioware disappointed and somehow betrayed you.

Give me a freaking break.

[Seena]

thesuperdarkone wrote...



And I assume you read the reviews and still bought the game because some say it's a disappointment. Sektor is not amused:

I don't give a rat's **** with mayonaisse if "Sektor" is amused or not.

I bought the game on release.  Parts of it I like - parts of it I don't.  But what you DON'T and will NEVER see me do, is whine and ****** and moan that the devs ****ed me over - when it was MY choice to buy the game sight unseen.


And that is as simple as that.

[BeefoTheBold]

Seena wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Alright, enough sarcasm on my part.

The money isn't a big deal at all. I could go into the bathroom and flush it down the toiled the next time I feel the need to take a dump and it wouldn't materially impact me.

What I don't get is how people like you see no connection whatsoever to the very natural expectation that the sequel to a AAA game would play very similar and have the same level of quality to the previous AAA game with some tweaks and minor improvements, not a complete overhaul.

Expecting that is not naive blindness. It is a natural and logical assumption that gamers have been making for many, MANY years. To borrow from a different part of EA's game lineup, it's like expecting that Madden Football 2011 will be fairly similar to Madden 2010. You don't expect it to suddenly transform into a basketball game.

Further, your analogy is completely faulty because you're leaving out two incredibly important pieces:

1. Bioware's track record until recent memory. - You never did address the analogy of the favorite author.

Certain companies build up and establish credibility. It's the entire point to a preorder. There's an implied promise between the developer and the fanbase built into the joint history they have together. And for AAA titles, yes, it is completely normal to preorder to ensure you get an early copy when a certain level of quality is reasonably ensured.

When that implied promise is broken, yes, the developer shares blame. Don't try and tell me that Bioware didn't know things like, for example, the recycled environments weren't going to be negatively received.

2. The utter departure from a AAA title.

Name the last game that was a AAA title that got completely overhauled with the sequel. Did God of War 2 completely change up everything from God of War 1? Or how about Halo 2 vs Halo 1?

And this, yes, a developer shares faults for this as well. Particularly when the new game carries the same name as the previous one.

As with #1 above, a game carrying the same name carries the expectation that it will be the same type of game.

Your disappointment could have EASILY been avoided by deferring your need to get the shiny  - and simply wait a month to see how the game formed up.

You didn't wait - and now you're crying that Bioware disappointed and somehow betrayed you.

Give me a freaking break.

Translation: I'm not going to address the points you made in your posts at all. Rather, I'll just repeat my previous post and hope that nobody notices. For spice I'll get personal and accuse the other person of crying and whining in my posts.

How about cutting the personal attack irrelevencies out and actually engaging the substance of my arguments?

[MorrigansLove]

CaptainIsabela wrote...

BioWare did not mess up. BioWare rock. I am a BioWare kiss-ass

Yeah! Woo! Go Bioware! *gets hit by tomato*

[Seena]

BeefoTheBold wrote...



Translation: I'm not going to address the points you made in your posts at all. Rather, I'll just repeat my previous post and hope that nobody notices. For spice I'll get personal and accuse the other person of crying and whining in my posts.

How about cutting the personal attack irrelevencies out and actually engaging the substance of my arguments?

Translation: I didn't address your points because they are irrelevant.

YOU chose to buy the game fresh off the press.

No one made you do it.

Stop pointing your finger elsewhere.

[DrFumb1ezX]

Apology? Why would they? They made A LOT of money off this game. They may point out certain "flaws" or "things we could have done better" but apologize? Nah. They got better **** to do than listen to people whine and moan. But they do anyway. Why? 'Cause Bioware's awesome like that.

P.S. I liked the game.

Edit: Seena and Beef sound like an old married couple: neither of them can hear what the other is really saying.

And Seena? SEKTOR IS NOT AMUSED BY YOUR IGNORING HIM. HIS WORD IS LAW.

Modifié par soccerchick, 22 avril 2011 - 12:34 .

[Seena]

soccerchick wrote...


P.S. I liked the game.

I think you should go and slit your wrists in apology. It would, after all, impress the emo crowd. 

edit: Sektor can kiss my Indian ass

Modifié par Seena, 22 avril 2011 - 12:35 .