233 réponses à ce sujet

[Nurofenusa]

You reap what you sow. They know what they didn't do - nuff said.

[Dragonslayr09]

JasonPogo wrote...

Now I am not saying this game is the worst ever made and what not.  But I think at this point it is safe to asume that they succeded in pissing off most of their long time fans and brought in very few new ones.  At some point they will have to come out and say that yes this game did not performe as they wanted it to.  Just wondering how long that might take.

I just hope that time will coincide with DA3 if they make it.

Did you say "pissing off MOST of their long..." Don't say "most" unless you've counted them for sure. You're speculating, thus diminishing your credibility as a poster.

Modifié par Dragonslayr09, 22 avril 2011 - 04:51 .

[infurious]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Seena wrote...

Why anyone would think Bioware "owes" an apology is beyond me. Seriously the sense of entitlement some gamers have just blows me away.

Gosh I know!

Heaven forbid that longtime loyal customers who have been buying Bioware's RPG games for years and suddenly had something resembling Dynasty Warriors sold to them under the Dragon Age name for $50, $60 or more might feel a little ripped off.

How dare customers feel that their financial support for a company's products entitles them to complain if they feel an inferior product was foisted onto them?

This. If you order food from a place and its just plain bad (not what you expected), you'll either ask for replacement or leave the restaurant, and also one would expect some sort of aknowledgement from the owner. However, that is not how the business world works, so BW will only admit DA2s faults when marketing DA3.

DA2 is not a bad game but I have to say I felt duped, by the quality of the game and by having to pay extra $$ for content which was already done and should have shipped with the full game (the prince dlc).
Coming from a company that I respected this felt insulting for me, and probably to other people as well, so while BW might not "owe" apologies, asking for them is definetly justified.

Modifié par infurious, 22 avril 2011 - 05:13 .

[Night Prowler76]

^ +1

[TRfore]

OP has a point, EA has to apologize to the DAO fans who hated DA2 if they want to get them interested in any future DA titles.

There is a recent precedence for this when Square Enix appologized for FF14:
http://lodestone.fin...941f0d8c4e88994

[Night Prowler76]

TRfore wrote...

OP has a point, EA has to apologize to the DAO fans who hated DA2 if they want to get them interested in any future DA titles.

There is a recent precedence for this when Square Enix appologized for FF14:
http://lodestone.fin...941f0d8c4e88994

6 months before DA3 comes out, they will apologize.

Modifié par Night Prowler76, 22 avril 2011 - 05:44 .

[Night Prowler76]

TRfore wrote...

OP has a point, EA has to apologize to the DAO fans who hated DA2 if they want to get them interested in any future DA titles.

There is a recent precedence for this when Square Enix appologized for FF14:
http://lodestone.fin...941f0d8c4e88994

The only reason Bioware would apologize is if they dont get alot of pre-orders for DA3, which I doubt they will, honestly tho, Mike Laidlaw seems to be under the impression that his "vision" was the right move for DA, which is unfortunate for anyone who likes games with substance (and obviously this does not include Persephone), and I think there is enough people that fall into that category, they dont want to be challenged or overwhelmed by all those pesky stats and micromanagement, so DA3 will continure with the medicority set forth by DA2.

[Cutlass Jack]

TRfore wrote...
There is a recent precedence for this when Square Enix appologized for FF14:
http://lodestone.fin...941f0d8c4e88994

Not precisely the same thing since its an mmo. They needed to keep customers for that product, not other releases. And FF14 was messed up on levels that were well beyond any complaints about DA2.

[TRfore]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

TRfore wrote...
There is a recent precedence for this when Square Enix appologized for FF14:
http://lodestone.fin...941f0d8c4e88994

Not precisely the same thing since its an mmo. They needed to keep customers for that product, not other releases. And FF14 was messed up on levels that were well beyond any complaints about DA2.

The DAO and ME2 business model consisted of tons of DLC's for extra $.  Granted DAO and ME2 are not MMO's but EA is depending on future DLC sales same as subscription base MMO's are depending on their customers to continue paying for monthly subscriptions.  Then they make a new game from the IP hoping the previous customers buys the new chapter in that same IP.  Using the same IP for a new game saves them a lot of development time cause the background story is set and they don't need to create a whole new universe.

My point is this: DA2 seems to have antagonized at least 50% or more of the DAO fanbase.  These people are probably future ME3 buyers too.  What DA2 did is similar to what FF14 did to their fanbase, now Square Enix is scrambling to repair FF14 and have publicly apologized hoping to keep their fans interested in the IP.  Unless EA
apologizes too and says they screwed up with DA2 and future DA titles will not have reused dungeons, plotholes galore etc etc then they should expect a major drop in pre-purchase or worse,  a major drop in sales just like what Square Enix is experiencing now with FF14.

[Archer zr0]

people are very critical and overwhelmingly feel entitled. i wanna see thier games.

DA2 flawed but not the worse thing since crack babies.

[Harid]

Lead up to Dragon Age 3 to answer the OP.

I figure they won't actually learn anything based on their statements thus far, though.

[FedericoV]

Next game/expansion in the franchise, assuming that there will be one more game.

[Everwarden]

Archer zr0 wrote...

people are very critical and overwhelmingly feel entitled. i wanna see thier games.

DA2 flawed but not the worse thing since crack babies.

Bah, there is always one in every thread.

'Entitlement' would only apply to something given out as charity. Bioware doesn't make non-profit games to help kids in wheelchairs, they sell a product and a customer has a right to demand the quality that product is advertised as having.

[FedericoV]

Everwarden wrote...

Archer zr0 wrote...

people are very critical and overwhelmingly feel entitled. i wanna see thier games.

DA2 flawed but not the worse thing since crack babies.

Bah, there is always one in every thread.

'Entitlement' would only apply to something given out as charity. Bioware doesn't make non-profit games to help kids in wheelchairs, they sell a product and a customer has a right to demand the quality that product is advertised as having.

No, entitlement applies in many cases because people act like Bioware is their company. You know, like people asking the lead developer to be fired? I mean, a player of DA2 has all the rights to point out the flaws of the game . But when fans began to act so emotively and histerically and behave like they hold Bioware in their pocket, I think that it's right to talk of entitlement. Wich is not true for all, off course.

Modifié par FedericoV, 22 avril 2011 - 07:39 .

[Pinely]

I don't think Bioware pissed off "most" of the Dragon Age Origins fans. The game has been commercially successful, in spite of the outcry. I wouldn't be surprised if Dragon Age 2 expands the fanbase even further.

I do, however, think that they might admit the game was rushed. It is pretty clear that the game was rushed at some level and I wouldn't be surprised to hear an admission of the limited time frame for the game.

[Sidney]

I'm not sure they know how to fix it. I mean this game wasn't that different from DAO. While people seem to be able to parse anything out to not be the same the sad thing is they didn't change all that much. OMG combat animations are different! Wow, major shake up there. The change from DAO -> DA2 was less than ME1 to ME2. There are a lot of legit criticisms about re-used environs and awful wave mechanisms but so much of the sort of silly "Dynasty Warriors" or generic "Action RPG" criticism is just wrong. Not like opinion-different but factually incorrect. What could they do to make the critics happy? The only hope they have is that the critics are so shallow that they could fool them by going all mea culpa and tossing in the ability to pick an elf and less blood showers. The critics might not be smart enough to figure out it is mechanically the same game since they appear to be fooled by the presentation layer anyway.

[Demon Velsper]

Didn't the signature edition already do that for them? Think about it, they enticed people to buy the game before they knew how it would be, they didn't do it to be nice, nice isn't a good business. They probably figured from the beginning that if people had a chance to read reviews before buying they'd lose sales.

Then there's the whole "get a better game for free when you buy this game!" dealie going on.

They may not have used words to express it but their actions speaks loudly.

[Radwar]

Ariella wrote...

Might I suggest that many of the changes that the Dev team instituted were based on fan feedback. Did they swing to far in the opposite direction, maybe. I doubt they'll ever see it as messing up, nor should they. The team took some risks that didn't pan out for certain segments of people and when they go through all the feedback, the developers will start looking for better ways to balance between the two experiences of DAO and DA2.

Might I also suggest that not everyone thought DA2 was a fail, and that those of us who enjoy DA2, don't see the need for an apology, any more than the team should have apologized for certain subjective elements that fans didn't like in DAO.

Oh give me a break! Where's the fan feedback about removing the much appreciated tactical  / unlocking of the camera? Where's the fan feedback about wanting less different dungeons? Where was the fan feedback about having too many NPC interactions, they need to tone it down ALOT. Where was the fan feedback for wanting less of everything in DA2 compared to DAO? DA2 was a piece of crap compared to DAO & Bioware's standards in general.

Modifié par Radwar, 22 avril 2011 - 08:32 .

[Radwar]

Mayobin wrote...

kingjezza wrote...

Mike Laidlaw has made the game he wanted and fixed all the crappy bits in Origins he didn't like, I see no reason or evidence to suggest this isn't a genuine feeling from him, his suggestion seems to be it's the players fault for not getting it rather than them messing up so I think people will be waiting a long time to see a full on admission that DA2 was a huge **** up on their behalf.

Who knows what others at Bioware think, we haven't really heard from anybody but Laidlaw so we don't know how others feel and whether they feel they messed up, I wouldn't expect them to just come out and say it even if they did.

THIS A MILLION TIMES

There is an extremely clear difference between simply cashing in and making something different with a genuine vision in mind.

Whether someone likes it or not, the whole thing is filled with ambition. Very well founded ambition that worked out in the end. There are many new elements that have really improved the DA2 storytelling, like the extended addition of family, narrative within a narrative, the ME wheel (not new I know, but the way they implemented it made interactions feel more organic, even compared to ME), the idea that Hawke isn't The Chosen One but an important influencial person in history at a single place, and the inclusion of a whole lot of social issues that I don't feel like discussing right now.

If you think about what Bioware games are generally known for, it's their storytelling. Anyone who has played other Bioware games would know that DA2 feels very, very different. They took a lot of liberties with the changes to storytelling and I think they should feel free to continue to do that, because they'll always find ways to make it work.

It's really clear to me that they showed that they wanted to start making changes to the usual Bioware RPG formula by making this game, even if this game does kind of come off as experimental in some ways for some parts fitting better than others. And for the most part, I think they really succeeded in making brand new ideas (in video games anyway) really work, at the expense of a bad imported save system and a nonexistant story (these you can defnitely blame on rushing and lack of time).

They will never admit that the entire game is a mistake, because that's just like saying that their ambitions and original ideas for improving Bioware games are a mistake. And they're not.

What I really want to see for DA3 is a DA2 that is more fleshed out with more development time, with a story that's actually good, more locations and less repeating dungeons, and better connections to past games. I'd like to keep my engaging characters, interesting narrative and addressing of social issues plz.

Worked out in the end? The reason DA2 got great sales in the first week was because of pre-orders based on DAO's & Biowares general reputation. I got caught with my pants down, it won't happen a second time. Let's see how many awards (including game of the year) DA2 gets compared to DAO. That will be a hoot to watch.

[Sabriana]

I don't think apologizing is a good idea. That would only add more po'd fans, namely those who think that DA 2 is good/great/the best since sliced bread.

I don't want an apology, nor do I like companies bashing their own product, be it DA:O or DA 2. Telling me that they improved upon something is quite enough to satisfy me, personally.

I do believe they did bash DA:O, although I simply won't search through all the advertisement that's out there. It can be googled, after all. No, they didn't come right out and stated "DA:O is the worst thing that ever happened" but they did it in subtle and not subtle ways.

As far as entitlement goes, yes, I do feel I'm entitled to voice my opinions. I paid a whopping 56 euros for that privilege. I'm one of those people who has to hold their money together, and be very careful about spending it on 'fun' things.

This is a business, and they failed to deliver their usual fare, imo. Therefore, I will criticize what I felt was lacking. It works the other way around as well. I feel entitled to praise what I think was well done. DA 2 doesn't fall in the 'praise' category for me, and it's as simple as that.

[Radwar]

Seena wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Seena wrote...

Why anyone would think Bioware "owes" an apology is beyond me. Seriously the sense of entitlement some gamers have just blows me away.

Gosh I know!

Heaven forbid that longtime loyal customers who have been buying Bioware's RPG games for years and suddenly had something resembling Dynasty Warriors sold to them under the Dragon Age name for $50, $60 or more might feel a little ripped off.

How dare customers feel that their financial support for a company's products entitles them to complain if they feel an inferior product was foisted onto them?

Wah Wah Wah

Perhaps those "loyal customers" should know - if you have a low threashold for disappointment -  don't buy a game on release - wait for the reviews, etc.

If you feel "ripped off" - you have only yourself to blame.

Cut the crap! People who have played Bioware games since Baldur's Gate usually know what to expect from Bioware, a game that's over the average in terms of quality. DA2 is not even close to being on par with the rest of  Bioware's games. People feel they got ripped off because they felt safe blindly buying a Bioware game because of the companies reputation. People aren't to blame, Bioware is for rushing the game, the overused dungeons and complete lack of NPC interactions are prime examples.

[Shadowbanner]

toggled wrote...

When DA3 is released, they'll say something about DA2 not living up to expectations for some folk, then go on about how DA3 is way better than both DA:O and DA2. Whether or not DA3 will actually be an improvement over the fiasco known as DA2 - who knows.

My take too.

They'll just downplay it publicly brushing it aside as a mere anecdote of overreaction of a small group of hardcore fans who did not accept the new "artistic direction". Privately, however, they will correct all the mistakes made in DA2 for the DA3 release because they know their whole reputation is at stake after this fiasco.

Common, you cannot seriously expect them to admit publicly they ****ed up big time.

It's a business, they have shareholders, jobs at stake, families et al.

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 22 avril 2011 - 09:01 .

[Sidney]

Radwar wrote...

complete lack of NPC interactions are prime examples.

You aren't interacting with NPC's? Really? I was interacting with them....a lot. Not sure if you mean non-party members or your allies but I thought my ally interactions were quite good and plenty deep. I didn't feel like there was a notable lack of depth to anyone and certainly no one who I hated talking to like Oghren.

[Radwar]

Sidney wrote...

Radwar wrote...

complete lack of NPC interactions are prime examples.

You aren't interacting with NPC's? Really? I was interacting with them....a lot. Not sure if you mean non-party members or your allies but I thought my ally interactions were quite good and plenty deep. I didn't feel like there was a notable lack of depth to anyone and certainly no one who I hated talking to like Oghren.

If you call "hey thank you for bringing me back my favorite item I've lost", something that you've found just by roaming around interacting, than you haven't played DAO. Heck even one of DAO's cities, Denerim had alot more NPC interacting than Kirkwall.