233 réponses à ce sujet

[nuclearpengu1nn]

When pigs grow wings and fly
*grabs a red bull and chugs it to a pig*

[Night Prowler76]

Seena wrote...

TUHD wrote...


Invalid argument... *facepalms* Consider also those thousands talking about DA2 at other boards, etc....

And I bet many of those people post here as well.

So, we'll increase the number to 100,000 complaining - that's still the VAST majority (900,000)   - that don't feel "ripped off" enough to post about it.

You called someone out for making up random numbers, and yet, you are doing the exact same thing, you should have been quiet when you were in the right, now you have just become the ultimate hypocrite, congrats, you are the biggest one of the day for today!

[Nyreen]

orbit991 wrote...

toggled wrote...

When DA3 is released, they'll say something about DA2 not living up to expectations for some folk, then go on about how DA3 is way better than both DA:O and DA2. Whether or not DA3 will actually be an improvement over the fiasco known as DA2 - who knows.

Bingo, though I'd say a couple months before release to get the old fans on the pre order wagon.

Sad truth.

[Everwarden]

Celestina wrote...

Sad truth.

Doubtful. I, at least, will never pre-order another Bioware title.

[Ariella]

erynnar wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

When they start development for DA3, Mark Darrah, Mike Laidlaw and David Gaider will probably bash DA2 and point out its flaws, and how they improved upon it in every way, and how they "weren't going to rest on their laurels" .

Just like they did in the developer diaries for DA2, where they also bashed Origins, if i'm not mistaken.

They didn't bash Origins, they pointed out places where they got negative criticism on the game, and thus tried ti improve upon those things like the color palate or the art design (both of which were panned in Origins by many people).

As they've probably already started development on DA3, they'll do the same thing and see what were the biggest problems fans had, what worked, what didn't, what they can improve on, what to leave along. A lot of that will be based on fan feedback. But it doesn't mean it's bashing the game, it means they listen to the fanbase and try and improve their product.

I see DA2 as a bash against Origins in many ways. The stripping away of what made DAO so good and not fixing what wasn't. They completely rehauled DAO, then they make your choices in it not matter once stinkin' bit except for a few cameos. Two of those cameos, were characters who could have died (and no Anders didn't die in Andraste's cave filled with magic woo woo, or the ashes of Andraste's magical knickers which apparently puts heads back on bodies!  And if that is a good way to explain how Leli comes back, I'll start considering "The Enquirer" as fine literature, sorry Mark Twain).

No offense, erynnar, but a lot of what you say here is subjective. I don't see where they stripped away what was good about Origins and left what wasn't.

As for the two cameos, I think there are actually 3, and I'm pretty sure, checking that two of those cameos/quests don't happen unless the characters survive. I do remember someone saying one of the two quests triggered as a bug that was fixed in patch 1.02 even if the character in question was considered dead in the DAO play through.

As for Leli, I don't know, without saying anything too spoilery, I got the sense she change profoundly between when my Warden last saw her (I didn't kill her) and the cameo. I'm looking forward to findout what did happen to her in that mean time.

That is shoddy story telling, and a complete ignoring of their own lore and storylines established in the first, and an insult to DAO, Mr. Knowles, those of us who knew DAO wasn't perfect but know it is far better than DA2 will ever hope to be, and the writers and devs who gave DAO such love and shared it with us.

I'd be careful about putting words in Brent Knowles mouth, since I've seen the blog where he said DA2 looked like a strong game, just not the type of game he was interested in.

And again, we're getting into subjective territory. You call the storytelling shoddy versus DAO. I say it's just different that DAO. And again with no offense intended it was the same group of writers and developers who brough DA2 to life, just like DAO.

I get the distinct feeling as if DA2 was made to act as if DAO's story is the shoddy embarrassment that needed an overhaul, it didn't. Yes it may have been like High Fantasy stories told since mankind crawled out of the mud. Don't like it? Also fine and good, tastes range. But there is a reason why that kind of story appeals so broadly. Slave makes good from rags to riches isn't new and original either. I liked both stories, but DA2's was poorly executed imho.   It wasn't DAO that needed to be overhauled while pretending that it had some form of game herpes.

I doubt the changes in DA2 narrative was a a slap at DAO's narrative at all. The fact of the matter though is they'd told their save the world story and wanted to try something different in the next installment, which I think is fair. I can understand why they wanted to deviate, especially considering there really was no way to top the Blight until they can show us some more of the backstory of Thedas beyond the Grey Wardens/Fereldan etc, DA2 allowed them to do that. From every article and interview I've read about both games, they're proud papas about both of them, but they're perfectionists always wanting to try and do it better. And while that can be annoying when talking about a story that's become as beloved as Origins, I'd rather have perfectionsts working on the DA franchise than someone who's going to turn in work that's just "good enough".

[Nyreen]

Everwarden wrote...

Celestina wrote...

Sad truth.

Doubtful. I, at least, will never pre-order another Bioware title.

Then there's still hope! 

[Lumikki]

Celestina wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

Celestina wrote...

Sad truth.

Doubtful. I, at least, will never pre-order another Bioware title.

Then there's still hope! 

I never have in my life pre-order any game EVER. I don't buy big in a bag. It's just common sense to find first some information about what you gonna buy, not buy something blindly.

[Fallstar]

Seena wrote...

TUHD wrote...


Invalid argument... *facepalms* Consider also those thousands talking about DA2 at other boards, etc....

And I bet many of those people post here as well.

So, we'll increase the number to 100,000 complaining - that's still the VAST majority (900,000)   - that don't feel "ripped off" enough to post about it.

No.

The majority of people who purchase games, do not come onto internet forums and talk about them. The thing is, if you take every disappointed user on this forum right? Assuming an average person with an average sized group of friends I'd say around 5 of them would play games, and would listen to you if you recommend a game/ says its crap. So if those 100,000 users then tell their friends that DA:2 sucks, thats half a million lost sales. Bear in mind that each of those people will tell others, and you have the explanation for why DA:2 sales are so terrible compared to Origins.

[Sammyjb]

Judging from DAO, They will praise the game for a while, but when DA 3 is announced, they will start bashing DA 2

[Seena]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Seena wrote...

TUHD wrote...


Invalid argument... *facepalms* Consider also those thousands talking about DA2 at other boards, etc....

And I bet many of those people post here as well.

So, we'll increase the number to 100,000 complaining - that's still the VAST majority (900,000)   - that don't feel "ripped off" enough to post about it.

You called someone out for making up random numbers, and yet, you are doing the exact same thing, you should have been quiet when you were in the right, now you have just become the ultimate hypocrite, congrats, you are the biggest one of the day for today!

Random?  We know the game sold at least 1000000 copies. Not random at all.  I said, "We'll say" 5000 people in THIS forum   I did NOT say "5000 people complained" or "The majority of people are complaining" or "95% of the people are complaining".



I also said, "So, we'll increase the number to 100,000" I didn't give a definitive "100000"

major difference.

[Seena]

T-0pel wrote...

Seena wrote...

TUHD wrote...


Invalid argument... *facepalms* Consider also those thousands talking about DA2 at other boards, etc....

And I bet many of those people post here as well.

So, we'll increase the number to 100,000 complaining - that's still the VAST majority (900,000)   - that don't feel "ripped off" enough to post about it.

ROFL what kind of thinking is that?! So if there is a poll lets say for election and 2000 people like one candidate, you would say that population of the country is 10000000 people so that 9998000 like the other one? U have to base it on the people who were asked that question, or as in this case the people who wrote their opinion.
So if you say that 100000 people are complaining you have to base it against the number of people in all these forums, not against everyone who bought the game...
A lot of people wont voice their opinion even if it is a negative one, you cant just say "they dont feel ripped of enough to post it".

 You clealy don't understand the concept of "random sample".  The people on this forum are not a representative sample. People come here specifically to complain. They also come to praise (also not "random") - but it's pretty common knowledge that people are far more likely to go out of their way to make a complaint, than they are to make mention of something good.

A spurned gamer is someone who will post til their fingers bleed. I'm pretty certain that a good number of them would be here posting if they felt "ripped off".

Modifié par Seena, 22 avril 2011 - 10:10 .

[fightright2]

I think a lot of people can agree that it has always been a smart decision for the consumer to evaluate a product before it is purchased. Even I agree with this. Before I buy, I read reviews.
I know many have stated that they felt waiting for reviews was not needed because they felt they could rely on the fact that they have been a loyal fan for many years and that loyalty has been based upon having continuously experiencing great products by a certain company. Not just some greedy need for an add-on. But that it has always been well worth it in the past to pre-order a game from a respected company.
However, I found this thread and wondered if this might affect their opinion on the stance of waiting for reviews before purchase.

http://social.biowar...index/6543337/1

I ask this because I looked over and saw that many members here had not posted there.
And wondered if they were aware of this.

Be prepared to read for quite some time. It's rather long.

Modifié par fightright2, 22 avril 2011 - 10:13 .

[dchesnes]

Never happen. The early rumors on ME3 are that they made it even more of a shooter, 10-15% faster and needing to target specific spots. They are done with anything that is not a pure twitch action game. Everything that has been said about DA2 and ME2 hasn't effected them at all. They are abandoning us for the mass market.

[ToJKa1]

When DA3 previews start rolling in. Bethesda too has been quite generously admitting failures of Oblivion (problem is they tend to overreact to feedback, which resulted in the level scaling of Oblivion). Interesting to see how BioWare will react to the feedback of ME2 and DA2, ME3 release will show what direction BW is heading. Or it will not, the ME and DA sections seem pretty separate (despite the ME elements in DA2).

[2Hard2C]

dchesnes wrote...

Never happen. The early rumors on ME3 are that they made it even more of a shooter, 10-15% faster and needing to target specific spots. They are done with anything that is not a pure twitch action game. Everything that has been said about DA2 and ME2 hasn't effected them at all. They are abandoning us for the mass market.

Rumors. No footage exists of gameplay{that I am aware of, if there is any please post it}, and it is mere speculation. Not that it may not come to pass, just that I don't believe anything until I see final version gameplay.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Seena wrote...

T-0pel wrote...

Seena wrote...

TUHD wrote...


Invalid argument... *facepalms* Consider also those thousands talking about DA2 at other boards, etc....

And I bet many of those people post here as well.

So, we'll increase the number to 100,000 complaining - that's still the VAST majority (900,000)   - that don't feel "ripped off" enough to post about it.

ROFL what kind of thinking is that?! So if there is a poll lets say for election and 2000 people like one candidate, you would say that population of the country is 10000000 people so that 9998000 like the other one? U have to base it on the people who were asked that question, or as in this case the people who wrote their opinion.
So if you say that 100000 people are complaining you have to base it against the number of people in all these forums, not against everyone who bought the game...
A lot of people wont voice their opinion even if it is a negative one, you cant just say "they dont feel ripped of enough to post it".

 You clealy don't understand the concept of "random sample".  The people on this forum are not a representative sample. People come here specifically to complain. They also come to praise (also not "random") - but it's pretty common knowledge that people are far more likely to go out of their way to make a complaint, than they are to make mention of something good.

A spurned gamer is someone who will post til their fingers bleed. I'm pretty certain that a good number of them would be here posting if they felt "ripped off".

just... shut up already, for god's sake.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Everwarden wrote...

Celestina wrote...

Sad truth.

Doubtful. I, at least, will never pre-order another Bioware title.

I won't either. First game I ever pre-ordered and I got burned. Second game I ever pre-ordered was Portal 2, that went much better.

[fightright2]

As for an apology.
The topic to this thread is "How long until Bioware admits they messed this game up?"
Not, how long will it take until Bioware gives an apology?

Many seem to think if they admit they messed up, they must also issue an apology for it.

I honestly think as long as EA is the contracting publishing daddy to Bioware, Bioware will have to just eat the bad reviews for DA2 with the knowledge that they may have known it is not anywhere near par to it's predecessor because that took five years to do.
And I have also read where Priestly stated prior to DAO, they don't rush things around there. To me, that statement was a winner for me in knowing that I would be getting a good quality game because they put a lot of time and creativity into it.
But since gaining EA as a parent, it now means having to hammer out game after game and DLC for them in haste so long as they like having a paycheck and a job to support their families. And for me I think since many there at Bioware knew beforehand just how their fans would react once they bought and played it. To know that it totally sucks to have put that out and that it could ruin any good reputation they had gained prior to EA, it also means that they can't admit anything so long as they are under corporate pressure. To admit that they were rushed, is to admit it was EA's fault for not giving them enough time to do it better. And that is what we call: biting the hand that feeds you.
I personally, think Laidlaw is stepping forward to be the whipping boy for EA's fault and really Bioware did what they could in a short amount of time and funding. And that Mr. Gaider is trying to be a nice guy and take some heat off Laidlaw by answering some questions and addressing some complaints without actually admitting to anything for fear that it would make EA really mad at Bioware. How else can they address the heat without making that possible? The only option I see is for Bioware to stand by their game before hand knowing it's flaws and be prepared for the assault that EA brought down on them.

In answer to the topic question: I don't think we will hear anything from them until EA gives them the sign that they can do so or at least till they can safely do it.
As for the non-topic question: No, there will not be an apology nor do I think they need to give one since it is not entirely their fault, with being so little time and funding that it takes to make an overall great game. Look at Bethesda games and how much time and money they put into them. They don't just hammer them out. They take years and it's well worth it.

[Seena]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...


just... shut up already, for god's sake.

So sorry you don't like what I have to say Mr Hutt.  I suggest you just place me on ignore.

I have to say, it is quite satisfying - knowing that I have managed (unintentionally) to get under your skin so.

Modifié par Seena, 22 avril 2011 - 11:07 .

[Seena]

fightright2 wrote...

As for an apology.
The topic to this thread is "How long until Bioware admits they messed this game up?"
Not, how long will it take until Bioware gives an apology?

Many seem to think if they admit they messed up, they must also issue an apology for it.

I honestly think as long as EA is the contracting publishing daddy to Bioware, Bioware will have to just eat the bad reviews for DA2 with the knowledge that they may have known it is not anywhere near par to it's predecessor because that took five years to do.
And I have also read where Priestly stated prior to DAO, they don't rush things around there. To me, that statement was a winner for me in knowing that I would be getting a good quality game because they put a lot of time and creativity into it.
But since gaining EA as a parent, it now means having to hammer out game after game and DLC for them in haste so long as they like having a paycheck and a job to support their families. And for me I think since many there at Bioware knew beforehand just how their fans would react once they bought and played it. To know that it totally sucks to have put that out and that it could ruin any good reputation they had gained prior to EA, it also means that they can't admit anything so long as they are under corporate pressure. To admit that they were rushed, is to admit it was EA's fault for not giving them enough time to do it better. And that is what we call: biting the hand that feeds you.
I personally, think Laidlaw is stepping forward to be the whipping boy for EA's fault and really Bioware did what they could in a short amount of time and funding. And that Mr. Gaider is trying to be a nice guy and take some heat off Laidlaw by answering some questions and addressing some complaints without actually admitting to anything for fear that it would make EA really mad at Bioware. How else can they address the heat without making that possible? The only option I see is for Bioware to stand by their game before hand knowing it's flaws and be prepared for the assault that EA brought down on them.

In answer to the topic question: I don't think we will hear anything from them until EA gives them the sign that they can do so or at least till they can safely do it.
As for the non-topic question: No, there will not be an apology nor do I think they need to give one since it is not entirely their fault, with being so little time and funding that it takes to make an overall great game. Look at Bethesda games and how much time and money they put into them. They don't just hammer them out. They take years and it's well worth it.

Well said.

[Night Prowler76]

Seena wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Seena wrote...

TUHD wrote...


Invalid argument... *facepalms* Consider also those thousands talking about DA2 at other boards, etc....

And I bet many of those people post here as well.

So, we'll increase the number to 100,000 complaining - that's still the VAST majority (900,000)   - that don't feel "ripped off" enough to post about it.

You called someone out for making up random numbers, and yet, you are doing the exact same thing, you should have been quiet when you were in the right, now you have just become the ultimate hypocrite, congrats, you are the biggest one of the day for today!

Random?  We know the game sold at least 1000000 copies. Not random at all.  I said, "We'll say" 5000 people in THIS forum   I did NOT say "5000 people complained" or "The majority of people are complaining" or "95% of the people are complaining".



I also said, "So, we'll increase the number to 100,000" I didn't give a definitive "100000"

major difference.

You are still just making up numbers with NO ACTUAL DATA. You should practice what you preach.

[GMagnum]

bioware has a superiority complex. they think every game they release is perfect and if anyone hates their game they think they're a troll. so i'm gonna go with - never.

[MassEffect762]

I find it humorous that they go from highly praised ME2(I personally disagree) to fan outrage with DA2 in such a close time frame.

Why admit anything? They'll either sink or swim, it's inevitable. We're just along for the ride, or not.

[Harid]

People still blame EA. Despite most of the directional changes Bioware have made they have stated to want to make before EA took it over. Despite the position of some the Bioware staff in EA today. You guys are tantamount to battered wives that don't learn anything.