33 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

I know that a lot of people think the Arishok is awesome personified, probably because of the cool voice.  But, face it.  Dude is not the sharpest tool in the Qunari shed.  Not only because if you hand Isabela over, she manages not only to escape but steal the book out from under his nose- she's good, but not that good.  Also, just what did he think was going to happen if he won?  He was going to be allowed to rule a little patch of the Free Marches on behalf of the Qun?

Unless he knows something we don't, or was a larger, bluer Petrice and hoped to provoke a war?  Was he just having an Anders day and not thinking very far ahead?

[thesuperdarkone]

It would be Rivain all over again since the Qunari started an unprovoked war with the Free Marches by attacking. I'm thinking the Qunari would lose this fight since they don't have any of their support ships or any prolonged supplies so Qunari relations would be incredibly broken due to the breaking of the Peace accord. Sektor would say this would happen to the Qunari:

Modifié par thesuperdarkone, 21 avril 2011 - 11:49 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

thesuperdarkone wrote...

It would be Rivain all over again since the Qunari started an unprovoked war with the Free Marches by attacking. I'm thinking the Qunari would lose this fight since they don't have any of their support ships or any prolonged supplies so Qunari relations would be incredibly broken due to the breaking of the Peace accord. Sektor would say this would happen to the Qunari:

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I wouldn't call it unprovoked.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Addai67 wrote...

I know that a lot of people think the Arishok is awesome personified, probably because of the cool voice.  But, face it.  Dude is not the sharpest tool in the Qunari shed.  Not only because if you hand Isabela over, she manages not only to escape but steal the book out from under his nose- she's good, but not that good.  Also, just what did he think was going to happen if he won?  He was going to be allowed to rule a little patch of the Free Marches on behalf of the Qun?

Unless he knows something we don't, or was a larger, bluer Petrice and hoped to provoke a war?  Was he just having an Anders day and not thinking very far ahead?

He wouldn't have cared about Kirkwall. He would have burned it to the ground, then him and the rest of Qunari would move on, in search of the relic. And Isabela is that good.

[Avilia]

I was very disappointed when I heard Varric say Isabela escaped, with the book, from a Qunari ship. It does make the Arishok look a twit.

I admit to being a fan but mainly because I think he would have made an interesting antagonist.

As to what his plans were had he won the Kirkwall battle? I think sarcastic Hawke is right - I don't think he cares at that point. He's just too angry and pissed off to consider anything past flattening Kirkwall.

Is that a good position from a military leader? Of course not.

[Addai]

So his goal was a massacre?

[thesuperdarkone]

Sektor wouldn't have let the book be stolen. He'd kill Isabela on the spot. Good thing Sektor isn't the Arishok

[EmperorSahlertz]

Addai67 wrote...

So his goal was a massacre?

Either he would convert all of Kirkwall, or he would burn it to the ground. Take your pick.

[EmperorSahlertz]

thesuperdarkone wrote...

Sektor wouldn't have let the book be stolen. He'd kill Isabela on the spot. Good thing Sektor isn't the Arishok

Cyber-Sub would freeze his ass and let Isabela run off with the book.

[thesuperdarkone]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

thesuperdarkone wrote...

Sektor wouldn't have let the book be stolen. He'd kill Isabela on the spot. Good thing Sektor isn't the Arishok

Cyber-Sub would freeze his ass and let Isabela run off with the book.

 

Scorpion would own everyone and get the best ending 

[Amagoi]

I imagine it'd end pretty much the same. The Qunari would leave with the Tome, and probably with Isabella if she came back. There'd be a few more corpses naturally.

[Addai]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

So his goal was a massacre?

Either he would convert all of Kirkwall, or he would burn it to the ground. Take your pick.

And he thought this was going to work?  He could never have held the city against an army with a thimble full of competence.  He's just lucky the Viscount is more feckless than he is.

And, Isabela is not that good, or she would have found the book before some idiot raider got it.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 avril 2011 - 12:01 .

[Addai]

Amagoi wrote...

I imagine it'd end pretty much the same. The Qunari would leave with the Tome, and probably with Isabella if she came back. There'd be a few more corpses naturally.

Unless she comes back, they don't have the tome and don't know where it is.  Attacking Kirkwall practically ensures he'll never get the tome back.  He also keeps on with whatever his plan is even if he gets it back.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Addai67 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

So his goal was a massacre?

Either he would convert all of Kirkwall, or he would burn it to the ground. Take your pick.

And he thought this was going to work?  He could never have held the city against an army with a thimble full of competence.  He's just lucky the Viscount is more feckless than he is.

And, Isabela is not that good, or she would have found the book before some idiot raider got it.

I'm guessing he didn't plan on staying. Just convert the leadership, set the wheels in motion, then continue his search for the relic.

[General User]

Addai67 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

So his goal was a massacre?

Either he would convert all of Kirkwall, or he would burn it to the ground. Take your pick.

And he thought this was going to work?  He could never have held the city against an army with a thimble full of competence.  He's just lucky the Viscount is more feckless than he is.

And, Isabela is not that good, or she would have found the book before some idiot raider got it.

Aye. I agree.  Without reinforcements form Par Vollen (which ain’t exactly proximal to Kirkwall…) any Qunari takeover of the city is on borrowed time from the start.
 
You also raise an excellent point about the Viscount. I mean, without even knowing the Arishok’s mission, the man allowed a large, heavily armed foreign force to set up shop in his city with them giving little more than a promise to behave! What was he thinking?!?

[TJPags]

Well, for one, we'd have less mage v templar debates. 

But seriously, I don't think he intended to hold the city long . . . long enough to wipe out what he saw as a corrupted leadership, turn the city upside down to find the book, and let anyone who wants to join the Qun do so . . . .then pack up, take a few ships, and leave.

And all that, he easily could have done.

[EmperorSahlertz]

General User wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

So his goal was a massacre?

Either he would convert all of Kirkwall, or he would burn it to the ground. Take your pick.

And he thought this was going to work?  He could never have held the city against an army with a thimble full of competence.  He's just lucky the Viscount is more feckless than he is.

And, Isabela is not that good, or she would have found the book before some idiot raider got it.

Aye. I agree.  Without reinforcements form Par Vollen (which ain’t exactly proximal to Kirkwall…) any Qunari takeover of the city is on borrowed time from the start.
 
You also raise an excellent point about the Viscount. I mean, without even knowing the Arishok’s mission, the man allowed a large, heavily armed foreign force to set up shop in his city with them giving little more than a promise to behave! What was he thinking?!?

Otherwise they would just have taken the city then and there. Burned it to the ground, and searched through the rubble.

[Icy Magebane]

Let's not forget that the Qunari have a huge main force north of Thedas... since the Arishok was the military leader, and since he concluded that the Qun demanded that Kirkwall be conquered, it stands to reason that this would have provoked a full-scale war. It's not like the Qunari have any fear of Thedas. They willingly agreed to cease hostilities last time they tried to invade, and apparently they didn't even need to do that. Most of the nations of Thedas were all but bankrupted, and were lucky the Qunari decided to just leave.

As for Isabela's amazing escape... plot armor and nothing more. There's no way the Arishok wouldn't have been on guard, and there's no way she could have even survived simply jumping off the boat and swimming away. That's absurd. Bioware just wants to use her in another game, simple as that.

[EmperorSahlertz]

thesuperdarkone wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

thesuperdarkone wrote...

Sektor wouldn't have let the book be stolen. He'd kill Isabela on the spot. Good thing Sektor isn't the Arishok

Cyber-Sub would freeze his ass and let Isabela run off with the book.

 

Scorpion would own everyone and get the best ending 

What is it with that guy and always getting the best endings?

[lanmao]

If the Arishok won, it wouldn't matter to the protagonist in the least. The Champion would be dead and the story would be over.

[thesuperdarkone]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

thesuperdarkone wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

thesuperdarkone wrote...

Sektor wouldn't have let the book be stolen. He'd kill Isabela on the spot. Good thing Sektor isn't the Arishok

Cyber-Sub would freeze his ass and let Isabela run off with the book.

 

Scorpion would own everyone and get the best ending 

What is it with that guy and always getting the best endings?

 

He's Boon's favorite so he gets the special treatment 

[MikoDoll]

I was half expecting Hawke to yell  "THIS IS KIRKWAAAALL"  before the battle. Male Hawke kinda has the look y'know. If he'd won, I'd expect it'd be similar to how Fenris would've described to Isabella her fate with the Qunari if they had their way:

• Fenris: I still can't believe Hawke saved you.
• Isabela: You've been saying that for years. Would you have turned me over to the Qunari?
• Fenris: No, but I know what they do to their prisoners.
• Isabela: Execute them horribly, I imagine.
• Fenris: The Qunari waste nothing. They would reeducate you into a loyal follower of the Qun.
• Isabela: Pfft. Could I refuse?
• Fenris: There's always qamek, which turns you into a mindless laborer. Like I said, they waste nothing.
• Isabela: Oh.
• Fenris: If you wish to thank Hawke, he's/she's standing right there.

[Addai]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Let's not forget that the Qunari have a huge main force north of Thedas... since the Arishok was the military leader, and since he concluded that the Qun demanded that Kirkwall be conquered, it stands to reason that this would have provoked a full-scale war. It's not like the Qunari have any fear of Thedas. They willingly agreed to cease hostilities last time they tried to invade, and apparently they didn't even need to do that. Most of the nations of Thedas were all but bankrupted, and were lucky the Qunari decided to just leave.

So you think the Qunari were about to invade en masse?  The Arishok himself says that "no ship is coming."  Not even a ship, let alone an army.  If he doesn't get the relic back, is the motherland really going to gear up for Total War because he says so?  I suppose it's possible.

As for Isabela's amazing escape... plot armor and nothing more. There's no way the Arishok wouldn't have been on guard, and there's no way she could have even survived simply jumping off the boat and swimming away. That's absurd. Bioware just wants to use her in another game, simple as that.

She outwitted them once before that, and they would never have got it and her at all without Hawke's intervention.

[Addai]

lanmao wrote...

If the Arishok won, it wouldn't matter to the protagonist in the least. The Champion would be dead and the story would be over.

Not the point.  I'm asking what the Arishok's end game was.

[Avilia]

Addai67 wrote...

[snipped]

So you think the Qunari were about to invade en masse?  The Arishok himself says that "no ship is coming."  Not even a ship, let alone an army.  If he doesn't get the relic back, is the motherland really going to gear up for Total War because he says so?  I suppose it's possible.

[snipped]

Sorry for the snips but this brought something to mind I hadn't considered before.

The Arishok thinks he's not going to get the book.  His mission was to get the book.  Is it possible his attacking Kirkwall has an element of 'glorious suicide' in it?  Death in battle might be prefereable to him under the Qun than sitting there doing nothing for the rest of his life.

He says a few times that the Qun may demand action - perhaps what the Qun demanded was that?