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[Icy Magebane]

Well, the 3 leaders of the Qunari follow the Qun to the letter, so they'd all be in agreement if one of them came to some conclusion... I figure the Arishok would just send a messenger or two and call in the rest of the cavalry. I mean, if anybody tried to oppose his occupation of Kirkwall. Since that would probably be the case, I'm sure he was ready to start a war.

If Isabela outsmarted them once, they should have been better prepared. It just seemed pointless to turn her in if she's going to escape regardless. Of course, Hawke doesn't know this at the time... I'll say "maybe." It's not completely impossible that she got away with the book, but I don't think it's probable.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 22 avril 2011 - 12:22 .

[Andraste_Reborn]

The Arishok thinks he's not going to get the book. His mission was to get the book. Is it possible his attacking Kirkwall has an element of 'glorious suicide' in it? Death in battle might be prefereable to him under the Qun than sitting there doing nothing for the rest of his life.

That's a very interesting thought, and quite plausible. He's extremely cranky about being stuck there looking for a book he can't find, and after Isabela runs off with it he has reason to believe he'll never see it again. He seems to have a few hundred troops at most - maybe enough to burn Kirkwall, but I doubt it would have been enough to hold it once reinforcements arrived from elsewhere. Even if the Champion had fallen in battle against him, there's no reason to think Orsino wouldn't have stepped into the room and set all the Quanari on fire ten minutes later.

(I would love to know how he does that in the cut scene, since in my game they're immune to fire damage! Maybe Orsino plays on Casual.)

Either he meant to raze the city and leave to go after Isabela, or he was expecting to die. While you're duelling him, he says a lot of stuff about how even if you defeat him the Qun will be victorious in the long run. His own death probably doesn't matter to him much.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Addai67 wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Let's not forget that the Qunari have a huge main force north of Thedas... since the Arishok was the military leader, and since he concluded that the Qun demanded that Kirkwall be conquered, it stands to reason that this would have provoked a full-scale war. It's not like the Qunari have any fear of Thedas. They willingly agreed to cease hostilities last time they tried to invade, and apparently they didn't even need to do that. Most of the nations of Thedas were all but bankrupted, and were lucky the Qunari decided to just leave.

So you think the Qunari were about to invade en masse?  The Arishok himself says that "no ship is coming."  Not even a ship, let alone an army.  If he doesn't get the relic back, is the motherland really going to gear up for Total War because he says so?  I suppose it's possible.

As for Isabela's amazing escape... plot armor and nothing more. There's no way the Arishok wouldn't have been on guard, and there's no way she could have even survived simply jumping off the boat and swimming away. That's absurd. Bioware just wants to use her in another game, simple as that.

She outwitted them once before that, and they would never have got it and her at all without Hawke's intervention.

She didn't outwit the Qunari. She killed an Orlesian envoy. The Qunari somehow learned of this, and gave chase to her. She didn't outwit them at all.

[General User]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

General User wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

So his goal was a massacre?

Either he would convert all of Kirkwall, or he would burn it to the ground. Take your pick.

And he thought this was going to work?  He could never have held the city against an army with a thimble full of competence.  He's just lucky the Viscount is more feckless than he is.

And, Isabela is not that good, or she would have found the book before some idiot raider got it.

Aye. I agree.  Without reinforcements form Par Vollen (which ain’t exactly proximal to Kirkwall…) any Qunari takeover of the city is on borrowed time from the start.
 
You also raise an excellent point about the Viscount. I mean, without even knowing the Arishok’s mission, the man allowed a large, heavily armed foreign force to set up shop in his city with them giving little more than a promise to behave! What was he thinking?!?

Otherwise they would just have taken the city then and there. Burned it to the ground, and searched through the rubble.

I assumed (based largely on the name I’ll admit) that Kirkwall had, umm… walls.
 
But even if not, Kirkwall isn’t exactly a soft target. I mean entire sections of the city were purposefully constructed as prisons, and things that are hard to break out of tend to be hard to break in to.
 
That and I find the idea that the survivors of a shipwreck had a major military advantage over the heavily developed city-state on whose shores they crashed to strain credulity to say the least.

[Addai]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Let's not forget that the Qunari have a huge main force north of Thedas... since the Arishok was the military leader, and since he concluded that the Qun demanded that Kirkwall be conquered, it stands to reason that this would have provoked a full-scale war. It's not like the Qunari have any fear of Thedas. They willingly agreed to cease hostilities last time they tried to invade, and apparently they didn't even need to do that. Most of the nations of Thedas were all but bankrupted, and were lucky the Qunari decided to just leave.

So you think the Qunari were about to invade en masse?  The Arishok himself says that "no ship is coming."  Not even a ship, let alone an army.  If he doesn't get the relic back, is the motherland really going to gear up for Total War because he says so?  I suppose it's possible.

As for Isabela's amazing escape... plot armor and nothing more. There's no way the Arishok wouldn't have been on guard, and there's no way she could have even survived simply jumping off the boat and swimming away. That's absurd. Bioware just wants to use her in another game, simple as that.

She outwitted them once before that, and they would never have got it and her at all without Hawke's intervention.

She didn't outwit the Qunari. She killed an Orlesian envoy. The Qunari somehow learned of this, and gave chase to her. She didn't outwit them at all.

The Orlesians were preparing to hand the tome over to the Qunari.  I assume they were in the area.

For that matter, how did the Orlesians end up with their most sacred relic anyway?

[Addai]

General User wrote...

That and I find the idea that the survivors of a shipwreck had a major military advantage over the heavily developed city-state on whose shores they crashed to strain credulity to say the least.

I assume the templars' interference had sufficiently weakened the city guard that the city was pretty much defenseless.  It's a little hard to believe that they wouldn't have a standing army at all, though.  I had always pictured the Free Cities as being similar to the Hansa League or like medieval Venice, powerful cities that controlled whole regions.  Kirkwall seems to be the runt of the litter.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 avril 2011 - 01:02 .

[General User]

Addai67 wrote...

General User wrote...

That and I find the idea that the survivors of a shipwreck had a major military advantage over the heavily developed city-state on whose shores they crashed to strain credulity to say the least.

I assume the templars' interference had sufficiently weakened the city guard that the city was pretty much defenseless.  It's a little hard to believe that they wouldn't have a standing army at all, though.  I had always pictured the Free Cities as being similar to the Hansa League or like medieval Venice, powerful cities that controlled whole regions.  Kirkwall seems to be the runt of the litter.

That’s how I kinda picture the Free Marches too. But I don’t think of Kirkwall as the runt, I mean it's mentioned as one of the half-dozen or so major powers in the Marches. 
 
I also think the Templars would have aided the Kirkwall forces if the Viscount had refused the Qunari entry into the city and the Arishok subsequently turned violent. I mean, hell, it’s hard enough keeping the Templars and Qunari apart during peace time!

[EmperorSahlertz]

Addai67 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Let's not forget that the Qunari have a huge main force north of Thedas... since the Arishok was the military leader, and since he concluded that the Qun demanded that Kirkwall be conquered, it stands to reason that this would have provoked a full-scale war. It's not like the Qunari have any fear of Thedas. They willingly agreed to cease hostilities last time they tried to invade, and apparently they didn't even need to do that. Most of the nations of Thedas were all but bankrupted, and were lucky the Qunari decided to just leave.

So you think the Qunari were about to invade en masse?  The Arishok himself says that "no ship is coming."  Not even a ship, let alone an army.  If he doesn't get the relic back, is the motherland really going to gear up for Total War because he says so?  I suppose it's possible.

As for Isabela's amazing escape... plot armor and nothing more. There's no way the Arishok wouldn't have been on guard, and there's no way she could have even survived simply jumping off the boat and swimming away. That's absurd. Bioware just wants to use her in another game, simple as that.

She outwitted them once before that, and they would never have got it and her at all without Hawke's intervention.

She didn't outwit the Qunari. She killed an Orlesian envoy. The Qunari somehow learned of this, and gave chase to her. She didn't outwit them at all.

The Orlesians were preparing to hand the tome over to the Qunari.  I assume they were in the area.

For that matter, how did the Orlesians end up with their most sacred relic anyway?

They captured it during the Exalted Marches some hundred years ago.

[Riknas]

I dunno, if the Arishok won, we'd have a much shorter game.