256 réponses à ce sujet

[Last Vizard]

Niddy' wrote...

Having to wait in between using abilities was a stupid idea. They need to remove this from the game. Really tired of everything in Mass Effect being a hurry up and wait game.

Bloody true.

[Last Vizard]

dreman9999 wrote...

Niddy' wrote...

Having to wait in between using abilities was a stupid idea. They need to remove this from the game. Really tired of everything in Mass Effect being a hurry up and wait game.

ME2 system...
*Uses pull*
*2 secs later, uses push.*
No problems.

ME1 system..
*Uses lift*
*Uses push*
*Waits 10 -20 secs to use again*

The cooldowns are way shorter than ME1 cooldown for powers so I see nothing to whine about.

but the abilities are a ton weakers and last less time in ME 2

[dreman9999]

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If you what a reason why this happen....If you go into battle and know that someone can lift you up and throw you with their mind, wouldn't you want to stop them from doing it? So between ME 1 and 2, they found away to do that.
Now the salution is not to make thing the way they were but to get yourpowers to deal with these new defences like.....Pull on a shielded eneimy would lace the person with a biotic field instead of lifting them, the field would make the person a walking bomb for warp though not as damaging as a full lifted person would reseave.

Erm...How?

How could Armour or Shields or even Biotic Barriers do that? Shields and Biotic Barriers are designed to stop projectiles, fast moving ones at that.  They don't work at all against slow moving objects, thats why a person with a shield on can sit down without knocking away the chair.  Armour is litterally just that.  All it does is provide a layer of protection for the user if Shields should fail, or if a slow moving object should penetrate said shields (knives etc).  There is no way that any of these could stop a biotic from lowering their mass and lifting them, none.  It was introduced as a gameplay mechanic, it makes no sense from a lore one and trying to explain it is just pointless.

YES, this ^ is what i've been shaking my fist in the air about when talking to friends about the ME universe, thermal clips what the sh!t? 

When i finished playing ME 1 i was talking to a friend who doesn't like western games (asian) and was telling him that he needed to play ME and he said "Western companies don't know how to make good RPGs".....  i said "the ME trilogy is going to be the best RPG in the West" talking about the story and gameplay.

Couldn't talk him into buying it but i told him that come ME 2 he'll be playing catch up.... nope BW failed to deliver an RPG with ME 2 and the story left me wondering why Nazzara would risk death in trying to take the citadel if a couple more Reapers can just fly in later then jump from relay to realy straight to the citadel and suprise attack in toghether.... even three would've won the day.

If you want to know why thy did this go back into ME1 with a sniper rifle and take note how fast it heats up and how fast it cools down....... Now get any ME2 sniper rifle, notice how quickly you can reload and a fire and compare it to ME1. It's faster. Now take in part sabatoge from ME1 and the lack of it in ME2. The closest thing to that is overload and it just delays your target for a 3-4 secs, in ME1 how long did an overloaded gun take to cooldown? Now lore wise, c-sec and the alliance had to fight geth which has faster cool down weapons and heavy amount of tech skills per geth.......So that would mean that solders would have tomake sure they don't overheat their guns facing an eneimy with fast cooldowns and the ability to overheat your weopons...... Not a good thing to have in battle. So they added thermal clip removal to help with that. 

Spectre X Sniper Rifle with 2x Frictionless Materials and Tungsten or Shredder Ammo depending on enemy type, you can fire forever.  I know this because I do it with my Adept in ME:1.

You get 2 shots at the most and that with the least damaging ammo in the game and even at that you have to fire at a slow rate to keep it from over heating.
So it's shot, wait.....shot......wait .....etc. And that does not even include sabotage attacks that over heats it...
Now, with a widow you shot and quickly reload with any ammo plus the gun gives an extra health and armour damage, plus he face that if it get sabotaged you just change the clip.
So yes, you can fire longer with a Spectre X Sniper Rifle with 2x Frictionless Materials and Tungsten or Shredder Ammo  compare to other ammos and guns in ME1 but with enemies your fighting which are at your level(Which is high if you have that gun) You'll just take off their shield, with the widow you can use any ammo and kill any based level enemy scaled to your level with one shot.
Even comparing the minimum level of Ammo, the new weopons still do more damage and have a higher rate if fire.

[Last Vizard]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If you what a reason why this happen....If you go into battle and know that someone can lift you up and throw you with their mind, wouldn't you want to stop them from doing it? So between ME 1 and 2, they found away to do that.
Now the salution is not to make thing the way they were but to get yourpowers to deal with these new defences like.....Pull on a shielded eneimy would lace the person with a biotic field instead of lifting them, the field would make the person a walking bomb for warp though not as damaging as a full lifted person would reseave.

Erm...How?

How could Armour or Shields or even Biotic Barriers do that? Shields and Biotic Barriers are designed to stop projectiles, fast moving ones at that.  They don't work at all against slow moving objects, thats why a person with a shield on can sit down without knocking away the chair.  Armour is litterally just that.  All it does is provide a layer of protection for the user if Shields should fail, or if a slow moving object should penetrate said shields (knives etc).  There is no way that any of these could stop a biotic from lowering their mass and lifting them, none.  It was introduced as a gameplay mechanic, it makes no sense from a lore one and trying to explain it is just pointless.

YES, this ^ is what i've been shaking my fist in the air about when talking to friends about the ME universe, thermal clips what the sh!t? 

When i finished playing ME 1 i was talking to a friend who doesn't like western games (asian) and was telling him that he needed to play ME and he said "Western companies don't know how to make good RPGs".....  i said "the ME trilogy is going to be the best RPG in the West" talking about the story and gameplay.

Couldn't talk him into buying it but i told him that come ME 2 he'll be playing catch up.... nope BW failed to deliver an RPG with ME 2 and the story left me wondering why Nazzara would risk death in trying to take the citadel if a couple more Reapers can just fly in later then jump from relay to realy straight to the citadel and suprise attack in toghether.... even three would've won the day.

If you want to know why thy did this go back into ME1 with a sniper rifle and take note how fast it heats up and how fast it cools down....... Now get any ME2 sniper rifle, notice how quickly you can reload and a fire and compare it to ME1. It's faster. Now take in part sabatoge from ME1 and the lack of it in ME2. The closest thing to that is overload and it just delays your target for a 3-4 secs, in ME1 how long did an overloaded gun take to cooldown? Now lore wise, c-sec and the alliance had to fight geth which has faster cool down weapons and heavy amount of tech skills per geth.......So that would mean that solders would have tomake sure they don't overheat their guns facing an eneimy with fast cooldowns and the ability to overheat your weopons...... Not a good thing to have in battle. So they added thermal clip removal to help with that. 

Spectre X Sniper Rifle with 2x Frictionless Materials and Tungsten or Shredder Ammo depending on enemy type, you can fire forever.  I know this because I do it with my Adept in ME:1.

You get 2 shots at the most and that with the least damaging ammo in the game and even at that you have to fire at a slow rate to keep it from over heating.
So it's shot, wait.....shot......wait .....etc. And that does not even include sabotage attacks that over heats it...
Now, with a widow you shot and quickly reload with any ammo plus the gun gives an extra health and armour damage, plus he face that if it get sabotaged you just change the clip.
So yes, you can fire longer with a Spectre X Sniper Rifle with 2x Frictionless Materials and Tungsten or Shredder Ammo  compare to other ammos and guns in ME1 but with enemies your fighting which are at your level(Which is high if you have that gun) You'll just take off their shield, with the widow you can use any ammo and kill any based level enemy scaled to your level with one shot.
Even comparing the minimum level of Ammo, the new weopons still do more damage and have a higher rate if fire.

But the new guns need thermal clips and if your supply lines are cut your stuffed.

[dreman9999]

Last Vizard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Niddy' wrote...

Having to wait in between using abilities was a stupid idea. They need to remove this from the game. Really tired of everything in Mass Effect being a hurry up and wait game.

ME2 system...
*Uses pull*
*2 secs later, uses push.*
No problems.

ME1 system..
*Uses lift*
*Uses push*
*Waits 10 -20 secs to use again*

The cooldowns are way shorter than ME1 cooldown for powers so I see nothing to whine about.

but the abilities are a ton weakers and last less time in ME 2

So what....Even if you can'tget past the first layer of defence with biotics, you can still us it faster and more often than ME1 powers. And even then your ignoring tech power that not only cut defences in have, but now are very effective in battle.

Modifié par dreman9999, 22 avril 2011 - 06:42 .

[dreman9999]

Last Vizard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If you what a reason why this happen....If you go into battle and know that someone can lift you up and throw you with their mind, wouldn't you want to stop them from doing it? So between ME 1 and 2, they found away to do that.
Now the salution is not to make thing the way they were but to get yourpowers to deal with these new defences like.....Pull on a shielded eneimy would lace the person with a biotic field instead of lifting them, the field would make the person a walking bomb for warp though not as damaging as a full lifted person would reseave.

Erm...How?

How could Armour or Shields or even Biotic Barriers do that? Shields and Biotic Barriers are designed to stop projectiles, fast moving ones at that.  They don't work at all against slow moving objects, thats why a person with a shield on can sit down without knocking away the chair.  Armour is litterally just that.  All it does is provide a layer of protection for the user if Shields should fail, or if a slow moving object should penetrate said shields (knives etc).  There is no way that any of these could stop a biotic from lowering their mass and lifting them, none.  It was introduced as a gameplay mechanic, it makes no sense from a lore one and trying to explain it is just pointless.

YES, this ^ is what i've been shaking my fist in the air about when talking to friends about the ME universe, thermal clips what the sh!t? 

When i finished playing ME 1 i was talking to a friend who doesn't like western games (asian) and was telling him that he needed to play ME and he said "Western companies don't know how to make good RPGs".....  i said "the ME trilogy is going to be the best RPG in the West" talking about the story and gameplay.

Couldn't talk him into buying it but i told him that come ME 2 he'll be playing catch up.... nope BW failed to deliver an RPG with ME 2 and the story left me wondering why Nazzara would risk death in trying to take the citadel if a couple more Reapers can just fly in later then jump from relay to realy straight to the citadel and suprise attack in toghether.... even three would've won the day.

If you want to know why thy did this go back into ME1 with a sniper rifle and take note how fast it heats up and how fast it cools down....... Now get any ME2 sniper rifle, notice how quickly you can reload and a fire and compare it to ME1. It's faster. Now take in part sabatoge from ME1 and the lack of it in ME2. The closest thing to that is overload and it just delays your target for a 3-4 secs, in ME1 how long did an overloaded gun take to cooldown? Now lore wise, c-sec and the alliance had to fight geth which has faster cool down weapons and heavy amount of tech skills per geth.......So that would mean that solders would have tomake sure they don't overheat their guns facing an eneimy with fast cooldowns and the ability to overheat your weopons...... Not a good thing to have in battle. So they added thermal clip removal to help with that. 

Spectre X Sniper Rifle with 2x Frictionless Materials and Tungsten or Shredder Ammo depending on enemy type, you can fire forever.  I know this because I do it with my Adept in ME:1.

You get 2 shots at the most and that with the least damaging ammo in the game and even at that you have to fire at a slow rate to keep it from over heating.
So it's shot, wait.....shot......wait .....etc. And that does not even include sabotage attacks that over heats it...
Now, with a widow you shot and quickly reload with any ammo plus the gun gives an extra health and armour damage, plus he face that if it get sabotaged you just change the clip.
So yes, you can fire longer with a Spectre X Sniper Rifle with 2x Frictionless Materials and Tungsten or Shredder Ammo  compare to other ammos and guns in ME1 but with enemies your fighting which are at your level(Which is high if you have that gun) You'll just take off their shield, with the widow you can use any ammo and kill any based level enemy scaled to your level with one shot.
Even comparing the minimum level of Ammo, the new weopons still do more damage and have a higher rate if fire.

But the new guns need thermal clips and if your supply lines are cut your stuffed.

Not like that's happen in ME2 yet, unless your a bad aim. At that point you have your powers and your heavy weopons.

[Last Vizard]

dreman9999 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Niddy' wrote...

Having to wait in between using abilities was a stupid idea. They need to remove this from the game. Really tired of everything in Mass Effect being a hurry up and wait game.

ME2 system...
*Uses pull*
*2 secs later, uses push.*
No problems.

ME1 system..
*Uses lift*
*Uses push*
*Waits 10 -20 secs to use again*

The cooldowns are way shorter than ME1 cooldown for powers so I see nothing to whine about.

but the abilities are a ton weakers and last less time in ME 2

So what....Even if you can'tget past the first layer of defence with biotics, you can still us it fast and more often than ME1 powers. And even then your ignoring tech power that not only cut defences in have, but now are very effective in battle.

but the Adept class is alot weaker and need to rely on another class, totally changing the rules form ME 1 rpg to ME 2 3rd person squad shooter.

[Last Vizard]

dreman9999 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If you what a reason why this happen....If you go into battle and know that someone can lift you up and throw you with their mind, wouldn't you want to stop them from doing it? So between ME 1 and 2, they found away to do that.
Now the salution is not to make thing the way they were but to get yourpowers to deal with these new defences like.....Pull on a shielded eneimy would lace the person with a biotic field instead of lifting them, the field would make the person a walking bomb for warp though not as damaging as a full lifted person would reseave.

Erm...How?

How could Armour or Shields or even Biotic Barriers do that? Shields and Biotic Barriers are designed to stop projectiles, fast moving ones at that.  They don't work at all against slow moving objects, thats why a person with a shield on can sit down without knocking away the chair.  Armour is litterally just that.  All it does is provide a layer of protection for the user if Shields should fail, or if a slow moving object should penetrate said shields (knives etc).  There is no way that any of these could stop a biotic from lowering their mass and lifting them, none.  It was introduced as a gameplay mechanic, it makes no sense from a lore one and trying to explain it is just pointless.

YES, this ^ is what i've been shaking my fist in the air about when talking to friends about the ME universe, thermal clips what the sh!t? 

When i finished playing ME 1 i was talking to a friend who doesn't like western games (asian) and was telling him that he needed to play ME and he said "Western companies don't know how to make good RPGs".....  i said "the ME trilogy is going to be the best RPG in the West" talking about the story and gameplay.

Couldn't talk him into buying it but i told him that come ME 2 he'll be playing catch up.... nope BW failed to deliver an RPG with ME 2 and the story left me wondering why Nazzara would risk death in trying to take the citadel if a couple more Reapers can just fly in later then jump from relay to realy straight to the citadel and suprise attack in toghether.... even three would've won the day.

If you want to know why thy did this go back into ME1 with a sniper rifle and take note how fast it heats up and how fast it cools down....... Now get any ME2 sniper rifle, notice how quickly you can reload and a fire and compare it to ME1. It's faster. Now take in part sabatoge from ME1 and the lack of it in ME2. The closest thing to that is overload and it just delays your target for a 3-4 secs, in ME1 how long did an overloaded gun take to cooldown? Now lore wise, c-sec and the alliance had to fight geth which has faster cool down weapons and heavy amount of tech skills per geth.......So that would mean that solders would have tomake sure they don't overheat their guns facing an eneimy with fast cooldowns and the ability to overheat your weopons...... Not a good thing to have in battle. So they added thermal clip removal to help with that. 

Spectre X Sniper Rifle with 2x Frictionless Materials and Tungsten or Shredder Ammo depending on enemy type, you can fire forever.  I know this because I do it with my Adept in ME:1.

You get 2 shots at the most and that with the least damaging ammo in the game and even at that you have to fire at a slow rate to keep it from over heating.
So it's shot, wait.....shot......wait .....etc. And that does not even include sabotage attacks that over heats it...
Now, with a widow you shot and quickly reload with any ammo plus the gun gives an extra health and armour damage, plus he face that if it get sabotaged you just change the clip.
So yes, you can fire longer with a Spectre X Sniper Rifle with 2x Frictionless Materials and Tungsten or Shredder Ammo  compare to other ammos and guns in ME1 but with enemies your fighting which are at your level(Which is high if you have that gun) You'll just take off their shield, with the widow you can use any ammo and kill any based level enemy scaled to your level with one shot.
Even comparing the minimum level of Ammo, the new weopons still do more damage and have a higher rate if fire.

But the new guns need thermal clips and if your supply lines are cut your stuffed.

Not like that's happen in ME2 yet, unless your a bad aim. At that point you have your powers and your heavy weopons.

LOL yes you can fall back on your considerable class powers....

[Dave666]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If you what a reason why this happen....If you go into battle and know that someone can lift you up and throw you with their mind, wouldn't you want to stop them from doing it? So between ME 1 and 2, they found away to do that.
Now the salution is not to make thing the way they were but to get yourpowers to deal with these new defences like.....Pull on a shielded eneimy would lace the person with a biotic field instead of lifting them, the field would make the person a walking bomb for warp though not as damaging as a full lifted person would reseave.

Erm...How?

How could Armour or Shields or even Biotic Barriers do that? Shields and Biotic Barriers are designed to stop projectiles, fast moving ones at that.  They don't work at all against slow moving objects, thats why a person with a shield on can sit down without knocking away the chair.  Armour is litterally just that.  All it does is provide a layer of protection for the user if Shields should fail, or if a slow moving object should penetrate said shields (knives etc).  There is no way that any of these could stop a biotic from lowering their mass and lifting them, none.  It was introduced as a gameplay mechanic, it makes no sense from a lore one and trying to explain it is just pointless.

YES, this ^ is what i've been shaking my fist in the air about when talking to friends about the ME universe, thermal clips what the sh!t? 

When i finished playing ME 1 i was talking to a friend who doesn't like western games (asian) and was telling him that he needed to play ME and he said "Western companies don't know how to make good RPGs".....  i said "the ME trilogy is going to be the best RPG in the West" talking about the story and gameplay.

Couldn't talk him into buying it but i told him that come ME 2 he'll be playing catch up.... nope BW failed to deliver an RPG with ME 2 and the story left me wondering why Nazzara would risk death in trying to take the citadel if a couple more Reapers can just fly in later then jump from relay to realy straight to the citadel and suprise attack in toghether.... even three would've won the day.

If you want to know why thy did this go back into ME1 with a sniper rifle and take note how fast it heats up and how fast it cools down....... Now get any ME2 sniper rifle, notice how quickly you can reload and a fire and compare it to ME1. It's faster. Now take in part sabatoge from ME1 and the lack of it in ME2. The closest thing to that is overload and it just delays your target for a 3-4 secs, in ME1 how long did an overloaded gun take to cooldown? Now lore wise, c-sec and the alliance had to fight geth which has faster cool down weapons and heavy amount of tech skills per geth.......So that would mean that solders would have tomake sure they don't overheat their guns facing an eneimy with fast cooldowns and the ability to overheat your weopons...... Not a good thing to have in battle. So they added thermal clip removal to help with that. 

Spectre X Sniper Rifle with 2x Frictionless Materials and Tungsten or Shredder Ammo depending on enemy type, you can fire forever.  I know this because I do it with my Adept in ME:1.

You get 2 shots at the most and that with the least damaging ammo in the game and even at that you have to fire at a slow rate to keep it from over heating.
So it's shot, wait.....shot......wait .....etc. And that does not even include sabotage attacks that over heats it...
Now, with a widow you shot and quickly reload with any ammo plus the gun gives an extra health and armour damage, plus he face that if it get sabotaged you just change the clip.
So yes, you can fire longer with a Spectre X Sniper Rifle with 2x Frictionless Materials and Tungsten or Shredder Ammo  compare to other ammos and guns in ME1 but with enemies your fighting which are at your level(Which is high if you have that gun) You'll just take off their shield, with the widow you can use any ammo and kill any based level enemy scaled to your level with one shot.
Even comparing the minimum level of Ammo, the new weopons still do more damage and have a higher rate if fire.

Nope, you're wrong, unless you think I imagined taking out 12 enemies in quick succession? Its literally, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, and are you being serious? Tungsten VII and Shredder VII were two of the best Ammo types in the game! DPS wise they did more damage than any other type of Ammo except for Explosive Ammo. 

You mentioned that you believe that the Widow is more powerful?  Have you forgotten that in ME:1 you could have over 1000 Shields added on top of your normal shields simply by using Barrier?  Enemies had way higher Shields in ME:1, if you used the Widow against ME:1 Shields you'd run out of ammo at about the same time you took down their shields.  The only reason that the Widow seems more powerful is because the enemies have a lower Shield count.

[dreman9999]

Last Vizard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Niddy' wrote...

Having to wait in between using abilities was a stupid idea. They need to remove this from the game. Really tired of everything in Mass Effect being a hurry up and wait game.

ME2 system...
*Uses pull*
*2 secs later, uses push.*
No problems.

ME1 system..
*Uses lift*
*Uses push*
*Waits 10 -20 secs to use again*

The cooldowns are way shorter than ME1 cooldown for powers so I see nothing to whine about.

but the abilities are a ton weakers and last less time in ME 2

So what....Even if you can'tget past the first layer of defence with biotics, you can still us it fast and more often than ME1 powers. And even then your ignoring tech power that not only cut defences in have, but now are very effective in battle.

but the Adept class is alot weaker and need to rely on another class, totally changing the rules form ME 1 rpg to ME 2 3rd person squad shooter.

Or they can get one speical tech power.....Or they can use singularity, or they a can get better at shoting, Or they can spam warp....Or they ac use special weopons.
And don't say"I don't want to us weopons." Because in ME1, using Singularity did not kill everyone in the room, you had to shoot them as they floated in the air.

[Admoniter]

dreman9999 wrote...
Or they can get one speical tech power.....Or they can use singularity, or they a can get better at shoting, Or they can spam warp....Or they ac use special weopons.
And don't say"I don't want to us weopons." Because in ME1, using Singularity did not kill everyone in the room, you had to shoot them as they floated in the air.

No in ME1 you atleast had options, enemy floating through air use throw, or warp, or stasis, or shoot them. Thats the problem you really don't have all that many options when it comes to playing ME2. Playing as an adept the only way to take down a guy with shields is shooting, against barrier; shooting or warp and against armor, shooting or warp. With tech the only way to take down barriers is shooting, and so on and so forth. Nevermind that barriers function as shields when they really shouldn't.

All this leads to powers in ME2 basically being in 3 catagories; defense strippers (spam these till health is vulnerable), CC (as the acronym implies crowd control), everything else (fancy finishing moves... and that is it.)

[DPSSOC]

dreman9999 wrote...
So what....Even if you can'tget past the first layer of defence with biotics, you can still us it faster and more often than ME1 powers. And even then your ignoring tech power that not only cut defences in have, but now are very effective in battle.

Would you rather hit someone once with a sledge hammer or 20 - 30 times with a rubber stamp?

That's the trade off we got; the option of heavy hitting, long cooldown powers given up for weaker, shorter cooldown powers.  Personal preference is for the former because it demands more thought into what powers I get and when and how I use them.  Like I said that's my preference I certainly enjoy ME2's system enough or I'd stop playing and I can understand people preferring it.

[dreman9999]

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If you what a reason why this happen....If you go into battle and know that someone can lift you up and throw you with their mind, wouldn't you want to stop them from doing it? So between ME 1 and 2, they found away to do that.
Now the salution is not to make thing the way they were but to get yourpowers to deal with these new defences like.....Pull on a shielded eneimy would lace the person with a biotic field instead of lifting them, the field would make the person a walking bomb for warp though not as damaging as a full lifted person would reseave.

Erm...How?

How could Armour or Shields or even Biotic Barriers do that? Shields and Biotic Barriers are designed to stop projectiles, fast moving ones at that.  They don't work at all against slow moving objects, thats why a person with a shield on can sit down without knocking away the chair.  Armour is litterally just that.  All it does is provide a layer of protection for the user if Shields should fail, or if a slow moving object should penetrate said shields (knives etc).  There is no way that any of these could stop a biotic from lowering their mass and lifting them, none.  It was introduced as a gameplay mechanic, it makes no sense from a lore one and trying to explain it is just pointless.

YES, this ^ is what i've been shaking my fist in the air about when talking to friends about the ME universe, thermal clips what the sh!t? 

When i finished playing ME 1 i was talking to a friend who doesn't like western games (asian) and was telling him that he needed to play ME and he said "Western companies don't know how to make good RPGs".....  i said "the ME trilogy is going to be the best RPG in the West" talking about the story and gameplay.

Couldn't talk him into buying it but i told him that come ME 2 he'll be playing catch up.... nope BW failed to deliver an RPG with ME 2 and the story left me wondering why Nazzara would risk death in trying to take the citadel if a couple more Reapers can just fly in later then jump from relay to realy straight to the citadel and suprise attack in toghether.... even three would've won the day.

If you want to know why thy did this go back into ME1 with a sniper rifle and take note how fast it heats up and how fast it cools down....... Now get any ME2 sniper rifle, notice how quickly you can reload and a fire and compare it to ME1. It's faster. Now take in part sabatoge from ME1 and the lack of it in ME2. The closest thing to that is overload and it just delays your target for a 3-4 secs, in ME1 how long did an overloaded gun take to cooldown? Now lore wise, c-sec and the alliance had to fight geth which has faster cool down weapons and heavy amount of tech skills per geth.......So that would mean that solders would have tomake sure they don't overheat their guns facing an eneimy with fast cooldowns and the ability to overheat your weopons...... Not a good thing to have in battle. So they added thermal clip removal to help with that. 

Spectre X Sniper Rifle with 2x Frictionless Materials and Tungsten or Shredder Ammo depending on enemy type, you can fire forever.  I know this because I do it with my Adept in ME:1.

You get 2 shots at the most and that with the least damaging ammo in the game and even at that you have to fire at a slow rate to keep it from over heating.
So it's shot, wait.....shot......wait .....etc. And that does not even include sabotage attacks that over heats it...
Now, with a widow you shot and quickly reload with any ammo plus the gun gives an extra health and armour damage, plus he face that if it get sabotaged you just change the clip.
So yes, you can fire longer with a Spectre X Sniper Rifle with 2x Frictionless Materials and Tungsten or Shredder Ammo  compare to other ammos and guns in ME1 but with enemies your fighting which are at your level(Which is high if you have that gun) You'll just take off their shield, with the widow you can use any ammo and kill any based level enemy scaled to your level with one shot.
Even comparing the minimum level of Ammo, the new weopons still do more damage and have a higher rate if fire.

Nope, you're wrong, unless you think I imagined taking out 12 enemies in quick succession? Its literally, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, and are you being serious? Tungsten VII and Shredder VII were two of the best Ammo types in the game! DPS wise they did more damage than any other type of Ammo except for Explosive Ammo. 

You mentioned that you believe that the Widow is more powerful?  Have you forgotten that in ME:1 you could have over 1000 Shields added on top of your normal shields simply by using Barrier?  Enemies had way higher Shields in ME:1, if you used the Widow against ME:1 Shields you'd run out of ammo at about the same time you took down their shields.  The only reason that the Widow seems more powerful is because the enemies have a lower Shield count.

Take a note that it takes a full 2 secs for the sniper rifle to completly cooldown.

Take note that it takes a fraction of a second for the widow to be reloades...
Then taken note of how rapidly you a can fire Viper and Insior rifles.
Then add on the multiplers ageints defence and any more added damage with  ammo powers...

And onther fun fact the base damege for Secter x rifles are 336 while the widow is 369.3.....
The point is that not only dothe new weopon are used faster, but can use any ammo without effect to performance and hit harder.

[dreman9999]

DPSSOC wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
So what....Even if you can'tget past the first layer of defence with biotics, you can still us it faster and more often than ME1 powers. And even then your ignoring tech power that not only cut defences in have, but now are very effective in battle.

Would you rather hit someone once with a sledge hammer or 20 - 30 times with a rubber stamp?

That's the trade off we got; the option of heavy hitting, long cooldown powers given up for weaker, shorter cooldown powers.  Personal preference is for the former because it demands more thought into what powers I get and when and how I use them.  Like I said that's my preference I certainly enjoy ME2's system enough or I'd stop playing and I can understand people preferring it.

But that Sledge hammer never killed any one, just knocked them out long enough to use my pea shooter and the rubber stamp explose killing my target most time instanly.

[Dave666]

dreman9999 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
So what....Even if you can'tget past the first layer of defence with biotics, you can still us it faster and more often than ME1 powers. And even then your ignoring tech power that not only cut defences in have, but now are very effective in battle.

Would you rather hit someone once with a sledge hammer or 20 - 30 times with a rubber stamp?

That's the trade off we got; the option of heavy hitting, long cooldown powers given up for weaker, shorter cooldown powers.  Personal preference is for the former because it demands more thought into what powers I get and when and how I use them.  Like I said that's my preference I certainly enjoy ME2's system enough or I'd stop playing and I can understand people preferring it.

But that Sledge hammer never killed any one, just knocked them out long enough to use my pea shooter and the rubber stamp explose killing my target most time instanly.

Unfair comparison.  When could you throw enemies off ledges in ME:1?  Thats down to level design in ME:2 not abilities.

I might also add that in ME:1 the radius of abilities like Lift was huge, you could get massive groups of enemies airborne at once and had there been an option to dispose of them by throwing them off ledges, Throw would have done that quite nicely and thrown them further.

Modifié par Dave666, 22 avril 2011 - 07:20 .

[dreman9999]

Admoniter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Or they can get one speical tech power.....Or they can use singularity, or they a can get better at shoting, Or they can spam warp....Or they ac use special weopons.
And don't say"I don't want to us weopons." Because in ME1, using Singularity did not kill everyone in the room, you had to shoot them as they floated in the air.

No in ME1 you atleast had options, enemy floating through air use throw, or warp, or stasis, or shoot them. Thats the problem you really don't have all that many options when it comes to playing ME2. Playing as an adept the only way to take down a guy with shields is shooting, against barrier; shooting or warp and against armor, shooting or warp. With tech the only way to take down barriers is shooting, and so on and so forth. Nevermind that barriers function as shields when they really shouldn't.

All this leads to powers in ME2 basically being in 3 catagories; defense strippers (spam these till health is vulnerable), CC (as the acronym implies crowd control), everything else (fancy finishing moves... and that is it.)

Lift/Throw only instant ly kills if you were outside or near a ledge, Warp kill over time, and stasis just made singularit point less no matter what. As a baston you would rather use stasis over sigularity and as a nemisis you would never use  stasis as an attack because it stops you from attacking your target. So most of the time you were stuck shooting. While in ME2.....You get some one in a sigularity, you toss a warp and then, boom......you  kill the guy and half or all his team...

[aimlessgun]

DPSSOC wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
So what....Even if you can'tget past the first layer of defence with biotics, you can still us it faster and more often than ME1 powers. And even then your ignoring tech power that not only cut defences in have, but now are very effective in battle.

Would you rather hit someone once with a sledge hammer or 20 - 30 times with a rubber stamp?

That's the trade off we got; the option of heavy hitting, long cooldown powers given up for weaker, shorter cooldown powers.  Personal preference is for the former because it demands more thought into what powers I get and when and how I use them.  Like I said that's my preference I certainly enjoy ME2's system enough or I'd stop playing and I can understand people preferring it.

Dunno, I don't view ME2's low CD powers to be particularly weak.

First off, stripping protections is trivial. Let's just get that out of the way.

Pull, a 1.8s cooldown, one-shots enemies in many environments, and Pull field can potentially one-shot multiple enemies immediately after an Area Overload (which one shots shields even on Insanity, so you can one-shot multiple enemies with a 1.8s CD power at the very beginning of battle).

Pull>Warp kills basic enemies and will kill more powerful enemies with some judicious gunshots thrown in, and that's a combo that has a total of 5.4s of cooldown. Plus you get Warp explosions. Singularity>Warp isn't much longer at 6.3s. And that's total CD time: execution time is only 1.8s and 2.7s respectively.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 22 avril 2011 - 07:23 .

[dreman9999]

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
So what....Even if you can'tget past the first layer of defence with biotics, you can still us it faster and more often than ME1 powers. And even then your ignoring tech power that not only cut defences in have, but now are very effective in battle.

Would you rather hit someone once with a sledge hammer or 20 - 30 times with a rubber stamp?

That's the trade off we got; the option of heavy hitting, long cooldown powers given up for weaker, shorter cooldown powers.  Personal preference is for the former because it demands more thought into what powers I get and when and how I use them.  Like I said that's my preference I certainly enjoy ME2's system enough or I'd stop playing and I can understand people preferring it.

But that Sledge hammer never killed any one, just knocked them out long enough to use my pea shooter and the rubber stamp explose killing my target most time instanly.

Unfair comparison.  When could you throw enemies off ledges in ME:1?  Thats down to level design in ME:2 not abilities.

Outside only.....And I kid you not on Hardcore and insanity a knock aguy up a building and he lived, then I knocked him down the building and....he lived..........What good is using a sledge hammer to kill when I can only kill the guy one way only is a super special way and can only attack evey 5 secs, when I can blow someone up with an explosive stamp by starting out attack a guy  whose defecese is weakest to the stamp and when caught with the stamp, blows up the guy and his entire team....
I'm sorry but an exploding stamp that I can use every 2 second is better than a sledge hammer that can only be used one speical way to kill someone and can only be used every 5-10 secs.

[Dave666]

dreman9999 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Or they can get one speical tech power.....Or they can use singularity, or they a can get better at shoting, Or they can spam warp....Or they ac use special weopons.
And don't say"I don't want to us weopons." Because in ME1, using Singularity did not kill everyone in the room, you had to shoot them as they floated in the air.

No in ME1 you atleast had options, enemy floating through air use throw, or warp, or stasis, or shoot them. Thats the problem you really don't have all that many options when it comes to playing ME2. Playing as an adept the only way to take down a guy with shields is shooting, against barrier; shooting or warp and against armor, shooting or warp. With tech the only way to take down barriers is shooting, and so on and so forth. Nevermind that barriers function as shields when they really shouldn't.

All this leads to powers in ME2 basically being in 3 catagories; defense strippers (spam these till health is vulnerable), CC (as the acronym implies crowd control), everything else (fancy finishing moves... and that is it.)

Lift/Throw only instant ly kills if you were outside or near a ledge, Warp kill over time, and stasis just made singularit point less no matter what. As a baston you would rather use stasis over sigularity and as a nemisis you would never use  stasis as an attack because it stops you from attacking your target. So most of the time you were stuck shooting. While in ME2.....You get some one in a sigularity, you toss a warp and then, boom......you  kill the guy and half or all his team...

Nope, Singularity effects multiple enemies (through cover, unlike in ME:2), Stasis only effects a single target, so no, singularity was nowhere near pointless.  Bastion gave you a huge boost to Barrier and allowed you to shoot through Stasis, Nemesis gave a huge boost to all cooldowns and increased the radius of CC abilities like Lift, Throw, Singularity etc, so with Nemesis you could CC more enemies more often, both were viable options.  

Yes, in ME:1 you had to shoot a lot, but you were shooting crowd controled enemies, in ME:2 all that changed was that you had to shoot them first before you could CC them, you still have to shoot a fair bit but because the enemies have less Shields in ME:2 than in ME:1 we shoot less, that is not because guns have gotten better, its just the lower shields. So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

Modifié par Dave666, 22 avril 2011 - 07:33 .

[aimlessgun]

Dave666 wrote...

So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

You do have squadmates you know...who can easily strip protections with area abilities. Vs. any Blue Suns for example, the first instant of the battle should be Area Overload into Singularity/Pullfield on 2+ enemies.

[Praetor Knight]

Dave666 wrote...

Erm...How?

Knowing that biotic abilities could be countered in ME1 by body armor, armor mods and Talent investment, I figure that biotic resistances by Shields, Barriers and Armor fit well enough in ME2 with the new combat system.

Body armor in ME2, should have some degree of Hardening built into them as body armor did in ME1 (which could be further augmented with mods in ME1, and research in ME2), but then with a new combat system, how would that best be reflected in-game?

I figure that for gameplay purposes in ME2, protections are able to counter Biotics, but without a persistent effect against them, as body armor could be used on Shepard and the Shore Party in ME1. And ME2 protections can be depleted on enemies, with only a few able to regenerate them back.

In other words, if Shepard can have a persistent resistance in ME2, having enemies with protections that can defeat Biotics and Tech abilities, makes having an Armor Bar and resistant shields and barriers on enemies as a fair compromise for gameplay purposes in ME2, IMHO.



The wall of text below, is what I considered, to come up with how protections came to be in ME2

The reason I figure protections work as is in ME2, is because in ME1, biotic and tech talents used on the player could be made less effective with Hardening. There was an Armor Mod called Hardened Weave that explains that it provides "a complex filament network of element zero microcores combined with advanced firewall technology provides protection against both biotic and tech attacks"

So the five classes, except the Sentinel, could put 11 skill points in the Armor talent for a total of 20% added to Hardening. With Armor Mods, you could add an additional 70% to Hardening and a total of 180% Physics Threshold from two Combat Exoskeletons.

There also is an Armor Mod, Shock Absorbers, whose description states, "Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or Throw"

Then going with the light Colossus X armor you have an additional 38% resistance against Tech and Biotics, or 50% with the Predator L X armor.

That resistance can be further improved if you are a Soldier or Vanguard, going with the Shock Trooper evolution, providing an additional 16% to Hardening.

I don't know how the values work together in the actual formulas against talents used on the player, but maximizing Hardening and having any added Physics Threshold allows you to shrug off biotic abilities in ME1, and that one fight on Noveria is also made easier, even on Insanity.



Imagine if ME2 body armor used by enemies responded more like Shepard's armor in ME1? What would we think of tech and biotic powers then in ME2?

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 22 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[Dave666]

aimlessgun wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

You do have squadmates you know...who can easily strip protections with area abilities. Vs. any Blue Suns for example, the first instant of the battle should be Area Overload into Singularity/Pullfield on 2+ enemies.

Indeed, the problem for me is that in ME:2 the Adept needs those squaddies, most of the other classes (Engineer excluded) don't need specific squaddies to be effective, its just icing on the cake for them.  I just hate stripping the shields off an enemy, throwing a singularity on him (hoping to catch one of his friends also) and my squaddies gun him down before I can throw a warp to detonate the Singularity.  What was the point in crowd controling when the enemy died so quickly? I could have just bloody shot him.  I can't tell you how much I miss Crowd Control ME:1 style.  The Rock, Paper, Scissors protection system in ME:2 only affects the caster classes not the combat ones. Shooting is rewarded, using casters is not.  Even Average Gatsby came to this same conclusion, and I don't think anyone could claim that he doesn't know how to play the classes. See here to see what I mean.

[dreman9999]

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Or they can get one speical tech power.....Or they can use singularity, or they a can get better at shoting, Or they can spam warp....Or they ac use special weopons.
And don't say"I don't want to us weopons." Because in ME1, using Singularity did not kill everyone in the room, you had to shoot them as they floated in the air.

No in ME1 you atleast had options, enemy floating through air use throw, or warp, or stasis, or shoot them. Thats the problem you really don't have all that many options when it comes to playing ME2. Playing as an adept the only way to take down a guy with shields is shooting, against barrier; shooting or warp and against armor, shooting or warp. With tech the only way to take down barriers is shooting, and so on and so forth. Nevermind that barriers function as shields when they really shouldn't.

All this leads to powers in ME2 basically being in 3 catagories; defense strippers (spam these till health is vulnerable), CC (as the acronym implies crowd control), everything else (fancy finishing moves... and that is it.)

Lift/Throw only instant ly kills if you were outside or near a ledge, Warp kill over time, and stasis just made singularit point less no matter what. As a baston you would rather use stasis over sigularity and as a nemisis you would never use  stasis as an attack because it stops you from attacking your target. So most of the time you were stuck shooting. While in ME2.....You get some one in a sigularity, you toss a warp and then, boom......you  kill the guy and half or all his team...

Nope, Singularity effects multiple enemies (through cover, unlike in ME:2), Stasis only effects a single target, so no, singularity was nowhere near pointless.  Bastion gave you a huge boost to Barrier and allowed you to shoot through Stasis, Nemesis gave a huge boost to all cooldowns and increased the radius of CC abilities like Lift, Throw, Singularity etc, so with Nemesis you could CC more enemies more often, both were viable options.  

Yes, in ME:1 you had to shoot a lot, but you were shooting crowd controled enemies, in ME:2 all that changed was that you had to shoot them first before you could CC them, you still have to shoot a fair bit but because the enemies have less Shields in ME:2 than in ME:1 we shoot less, that is not because guns have gotten better, its just the lower shields. So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

Let me explain......A baston in mass effect 1 gain the ability to attack enemies in stasis......So if your fighting a Geth colossis, you can use stasis on it to hold it and attack while it hold. And even if you use singularity on enemies in Mess effect 1 it did no damage to enemies at all unlike singularity in ME2. In ME1, enemies stuck in a singularity had to be attack one by one in the field, it just held them long enough to be attacked by something else, most times guns and the field could not pick up more people. In ME2, singularity attacks enemies, suck more in to the field, hold enemies back and can be exploded and damage eneimies not in the field. An adept may not crowd control as much as ME1 but that was due to the pull being used only one shield less eneimies, singularty may not grab every where now but put in the right place, it it can hold all but  heavy mechs back, and eneimies can still walk into it and be blown up.

[dreman9999]

Dave666 wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

You do have squadmates you know...who can easily strip protections with area abilities. Vs. any Blue Suns for example, the first instant of the battle should be Area Overload into Singularity/Pullfield on 2+ enemies.

Indeed, the problem for me is that in ME:2 the Adept needs those squaddies, most of the other classes (Engineer excluded) don't need specific squaddies to be effective, its just icing on the cake for them.  I just hate stripping the shields off an enemy, throwing a singularity on him (hoping to catch one of his friends also) and my squaddies gun him down before I can throw a warp to detonate the Singularity.  What was the point in crowd controling when the enemy died so quickly? I could have just bloody shot him.  I can't tell you how much I miss Crowd Control ME:1 style.  The Rock, Paper, Scissors protection system in ME:2 only affects the caster classes not the combat ones. Shooting is rewarded, using casters is not.  Even Average Gatsby came to this same conclusion, and I don't think anyone could claim that he doesn't know how to play the classes. See here to see what I mean.

Or you can get energy drain for that adept...reave.....or become a good shot.
like this....

[Dave666]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

You do have squadmates you know...who can easily strip protections with area abilities. Vs. any Blue Suns for example, the first instant of the battle should be Area Overload into Singularity/Pullfield on 2+ enemies.

Indeed, the problem for me is that in ME:2 the Adept needs those squaddies, most of the other classes (Engineer excluded) don't need specific squaddies to be effective, its just icing on the cake for them.  I just hate stripping the shields off an enemy, throwing a singularity on him (hoping to catch one of his friends also) and my squaddies gun him down before I can throw a warp to detonate the Singularity.  What was the point in crowd controling when the enemy died so quickly? I could have just bloody shot him.  I can't tell you how much I miss Crowd Control ME:1 style.  The Rock, Paper, Scissors protection system in ME:2 only affects the caster classes not the combat ones. Shooting is rewarded, using casters is not.  Even Average Gatsby came to this same conclusion, and I don't think anyone could claim that he doesn't know how to play the classes. See here to see what I mean.

Or you can get energy drain for that adept...reave.....or become a good shot.
like this....

Yes, of course, how stupid of me! I'd forgotten that on BSN any criticism of a class automatically means that you don't know how to play said class.  How could I have forgotten that?

I'm well aware of Energy Drain, however because of the GCD using it means that i can't use another ability.  And as for 'becoming a good shot' Adepts don't recieve bonuses to aiming like the combat classes, the Soldier, Infiltrator and even the Vangard all gain increased weapon damage (passive) and a slowdown effect (a small one with the Vangard), the other three classes the caster ones get nothing.  

Yes, weapon damage increases to enemies affected by biotics, but the Vangard can use pull to get this effect then shoot with increased damage from passive AND from the enemy being affected by biotics.  Hell, even the Soldier can gain this benefit if he brings Jacob, Samara or jack along, but the Soldier also gets a passive that increases weapon damage on top of this.  See what I mean?

Modifié par Dave666, 22 avril 2011 - 08:13 .