256 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr0TYuH]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If you what a reason why this happen....If you go into battle and know that someone can lift you up and throw you with their mind, wouldn't you want to stop them from doing it? So between ME 1 and 2, they found away to do that.
Now the salution is not to make thing the way they were but to get yourpowers to deal with these new defences like.....Pull on a shielded eneimy would lace the person with a biotic field instead of lifting them, the field would make the person a walking bomb for warp though not as damaging as a full lifted person would reseave.

Erm...How?

How could Armour or Shields or even Biotic Barriers do that? Shields and Biotic Barriers are designed to stop projectiles, fast moving ones at that.  They don't work at all against slow moving objects, thats why a person with a shield on can sit down without knocking away the chair.  Armour is litterally just that.  All it does is provide a layer of protection for the user if Shields should fail, or if a slow moving object should penetrate said shields (knives etc).  There is no way that any of these could stop a biotic from lowering their mass and lifting them, none.  It was introduced as a gameplay mechanic, it makes no sense from a lore one and trying to explain it is just pointless.

Simple, just have a counter field in it system that opposes the field your throwing at it. Everything has mass effect fields in it so it likely it in every Armour.

Yeah, that's why the guard on Illium didn't care if you threw him out the window.  He knew his counter field would counter gravity and he would have a nice, gentle landing.

[Last Vizard]

aimlessgun wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

You do have squadmates you know...who can easily strip protections with area abilities. Vs. any Blue Suns for example, the first instant of the battle should be Area Overload into Singularity/Pullfield on 2+ enemies.

LOL two plus guys, in ME 1 you singularity a whole squad of eight guys.

[Last Vizard]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Or they can get one speical tech power.....Or they can use singularity, or they a can get better at shoting, Or they can spam warp....Or they ac use special weopons.
And don't say"I don't want to us weopons." Because in ME1, using Singularity did not kill everyone in the room, you had to shoot them as they floated in the air.

No in ME1 you atleast had options, enemy floating through air use throw, or warp, or stasis, or shoot them. Thats the problem you really don't have all that many options when it comes to playing ME2. Playing as an adept the only way to take down a guy with shields is shooting, against barrier; shooting or warp and against armor, shooting or warp. With tech the only way to take down barriers is shooting, and so on and so forth. Nevermind that barriers function as shields when they really shouldn't.

All this leads to powers in ME2 basically being in 3 catagories; defense strippers (spam these till health is vulnerable), CC (as the acronym implies crowd control), everything else (fancy finishing moves... and that is it.)

Lift/Throw only instant ly kills if you were outside or near a ledge, Warp kill over time, and stasis just made singularit point less no matter what. As a baston you would rather use stasis over sigularity and as a nemisis you would never use  stasis as an attack because it stops you from attacking your target. So most of the time you were stuck shooting. While in ME2.....You get some one in a sigularity, you toss a warp and then, boom......you  kill the guy and half or all his team...

Nope, Singularity effects multiple enemies (through cover, unlike in ME:2), Stasis only effects a single target, so no, singularity was nowhere near pointless.  Bastion gave you a huge boost to Barrier and allowed you to shoot through Stasis, Nemesis gave a huge boost to all cooldowns and increased the radius of CC abilities like Lift, Throw, Singularity etc, so with Nemesis you could CC more enemies more often, both were viable options.  

Yes, in ME:1 you had to shoot a lot, but you were shooting crowd controled enemies, in ME:2 all that changed was that you had to shoot them first before you could CC them, you still have to shoot a fair bit but because the enemies have less Shields in ME:2 than in ME:1 we shoot less, that is not because guns have gotten better, its just the lower shields. So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

Let me explain......A baston in mass effect 1 gain the ability to attack enemies in stasis......So if your fighting a Geth colossis, you can use stasis on it to hold it and attack while it hold. And even if you use singularity on enemies in Mess effect 1 it did no damage to enemies at all unlike singularity in ME2. In ME1, enemies stuck in a singularity had to be attack one by one in the field, it just held them long enough to be attacked by something else, most times guns and the field could not pick up more people. In ME2, singularity attacks enemies, suck more in to the field, hold enemies back and can be exploded and damage eneimies not in the field. An adept may not crowd control as much as ME1 but that was due to the pull being used only one shield less eneimies, singularty may not grab every where now but put in the right place, it it can hold all but  heavy mechs back, and eneimies can still walk into it and be blown up.

In ME 1 the final battle against Saren was, lift then shoot him, push then shoot him, pull then shoot him, singularity then shoot him then repeat.... same with all other groups of enemies, i was always trying to kill them before my team did (Wrex and his damn shotgun) Biotic CC in ME 1 was god like while in ME 2 you can hold up one Krogan while you shoot him then warp before the singularity dissipates and that wasn't long.

ME 1 Adept class used most of their powers while pushing forward like a Boss, ME 2 you were hiding behind cover like Debra.

[Last Vizard]

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

You do have squadmates you know...who can easily strip protections with area abilities. Vs. any Blue Suns for example, the first instant of the battle should be Area Overload into Singularity/Pullfield on 2+ enemies.

Indeed, the problem for me is that in ME:2 the Adept needs those squaddies, most of the other classes (Engineer excluded) don't need specific squaddies to be effective, its just icing on the cake for them.  I just hate stripping the shields off an enemy, throwing a singularity on him (hoping to catch one of his friends also) and my squaddies gun him down before I can throw a warp to detonate the Singularity.  What was the point in crowd controling when the enemy died so quickly? I could have just bloody shot him.  I can't tell you how much I miss Crowd Control ME:1 style.  The Rock, Paper, Scissors protection system in ME:2 only affects the caster classes not the combat ones. Shooting is rewarded, using casters is not.  Even Average Gatsby came to this same conclusion, and I don't think anyone could claim that he doesn't know how to play the classes. See here to see what I mean.

Or you can get energy drain for that adept...reave.....or become a good shot.
like this....

Yes, of course, how stupid of me! I'd forgotten that on BSN any criticism of a class automatically means that you don't know how to play said class.  How could I have forgotten that?

I'm well aware of Energy Drain, however because of the GCD using it means that i can't use another ability.  And as for 'becoming a good shot' Adepts don't recieve bonuses to aiming like the combat classes, the Soldier, Infiltrator and even the Vangard all gain increased weapon damage (passive) and a slowdown effect (a small one with the Vangard), the other three classes the caster ones get nothing.  

Yes, weapon damage increases to enemies affected by biotics, but the Vangard can use pull to get this effect then shoot with increased damage from passive AND from the enemy being affected by biotics.  Hell, even the Soldier can gain this benefit if he brings Jacob, Samara or jack along, but the Soldier also gets a passive that increases weapon damage on top of this.  See what I mean?

So true, no longer do classes matter because its all about shooting things and becoming TPS.... the whole ME world fell on its head in ME 2.

[dreman9999]

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

You do have squadmates you know...who can easily strip protections with area abilities. Vs. any Blue Suns for example, the first instant of the battle should be Area Overload into Singularity/Pullfield on 2+ enemies.

Indeed, the problem for me is that in ME:2 the Adept needs those squaddies, most of the other classes (Engineer excluded) don't need specific squaddies to be effective, its just icing on the cake for them.  I just hate stripping the shields off an enemy, throwing a singularity on him (hoping to catch one of his friends also) and my squaddies gun him down before I can throw a warp to detonate the Singularity.  What was the point in crowd controling when the enemy died so quickly? I could have just bloody shot him.  I can't tell you how much I miss Crowd Control ME:1 style.  The Rock, Paper, Scissors protection system in ME:2 only affects the caster classes not the combat ones. Shooting is rewarded, using casters is not.  Even Average Gatsby came to this same conclusion, and I don't think anyone could claim that he doesn't know how to play the classes. See here to see what I mean.

Or you can get energy drain for that adept...reave.....or become a good shot.
like this....

Yes, of course, how stupid of me! I'd forgotten that on BSN any criticism of a class automatically means that you don't know how to play said class.  How could I have forgotten that?

I'm well aware of Energy Drain, however because of the GCD using it means that i can't use another ability.  And as for 'becoming a good shot' Adepts don't recieve bonuses to aiming like the combat classes, the Soldier, Infiltrator and even the Vangard all gain increased weapon damage (passive) and a slowdown effect (a small one with the Vangard), the other three classes the caster ones get nothing.  

Yes, weapon damage increases to enemies affected by biotics, but the Vangard can use pull to get this effect then shoot with increased damage from passive AND from the enemy being affected by biotics.  Hell, even the Soldier can gain this benefit if he brings Jacob, Samara or jack along, but the Soldier also gets a passive that increases weapon damage on top of this.  See what I mean?

It'snot about killing them with shooting. It's takingdown their shields.  With the right skill or gun anyone can.
I'm not saying that critic of the system don't know that their other ways to play adepts, just that they pretend that they are so powerless in the new system when they are not.

[dreman9999]

Last Vizard wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

You do have squadmates you know...who can easily strip protections with area abilities. Vs. any Blue Suns for example, the first instant of the battle should be Area Overload into Singularity/Pullfield on 2+ enemies.

Indeed, the problem for me is that in ME:2 the Adept needs those squaddies, most of the other classes (Engineer excluded) don't need specific squaddies to be effective, its just icing on the cake for them.  I just hate stripping the shields off an enemy, throwing a singularity on him (hoping to catch one of his friends also) and my squaddies gun him down before I can throw a warp to detonate the Singularity.  What was the point in crowd controling when the enemy died so quickly? I could have just bloody shot him.  I can't tell you how much I miss Crowd Control ME:1 style.  The Rock, Paper, Scissors protection system in ME:2 only affects the caster classes not the combat ones. Shooting is rewarded, using casters is not.  Even Average Gatsby came to this same conclusion, and I don't think anyone could claim that he doesn't know how to play the classes. See here to see what I mean.

Or you can get energy drain for that adept...reave.....or become a good shot.
like this....

Yes, of course, how stupid of me! I'd forgotten that on BSN any criticism of a class automatically means that you don't know how to play said class.  How could I have forgotten that?

I'm well aware of Energy Drain, however because of the GCD using it means that i can't use another ability.  And as for 'becoming a good shot' Adepts don't recieve bonuses to aiming like the combat classes, the Soldier, Infiltrator and even the Vangard all gain increased weapon damage (passive) and a slowdown effect (a small one with the Vangard), the other three classes the caster ones get nothing.  

Yes, weapon damage increases to enemies affected by biotics, but the Vangard can use pull to get this effect then shoot with increased damage from passive AND from the enemy being affected by biotics.  Hell, even the Soldier can gain this benefit if he brings Jacob, Samara or jack along, but the Soldier also gets a passive that increases weapon damage on top of this.  See what I mean?

So true, no longer do classes matter because its all about shooting things and becoming TPS.... the whole ME world fell on its head in ME 2.

Ofcourse class matter, infact your shooting less in ME2 as an adept than ME1. Your forgeting that most of the time as an adept you were knocking people down or lifting them long enough to be shot to death. And youhad to shot each lifted/knocked down eneimy indivisuly. While in ME2, most times you just consentrated on one guy, pull him into his team and blow him  and his team mates with a warp bomb.

[dreman9999]

Mr0TYuH wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If you what a reason why this happen....If you go into battle and know that someone can lift you up and throw you with their mind, wouldn't you want to stop them from doing it? So between ME 1 and 2, they found away to do that.
Now the salution is not to make thing the way they were but to get yourpowers to deal with these new defences like.....Pull on a shielded eneimy would lace the person with a biotic field instead of lifting them, the field would make the person a walking bomb for warp though not as damaging as a full lifted person would reseave.

Erm...How?

How could Armour or Shields or even Biotic Barriers do that? Shields and Biotic Barriers are designed to stop projectiles, fast moving ones at that.  They don't work at all against slow moving objects, thats why a person with a shield on can sit down without knocking away the chair.  Armour is litterally just that.  All it does is provide a layer of protection for the user if Shields should fail, or if a slow moving object should penetrate said shields (knives etc).  There is no way that any of these could stop a biotic from lowering their mass and lifting them, none.  It was introduced as a gameplay mechanic, it makes no sense from a lore one and trying to explain it is just pointless.

Simple, just have a counter field in it system that opposes the field your throwing at it. Everything has mass effect fields in it so it likely it in every Armour.

Yeah, that's why the guard on Illium didn't care if you threw him out the window.  He knew his counter field would counter gravity and he would have a nice, gentle landing.

We all know a physical  push is too slow to bring up the sields and though the shield may start up when falling, the shields do nothing to counter momentum. So he still gets splatered on the ground.....So waht's your point?

[dreman9999]

Last Vizard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No in ME1 you atleast had options, enemy floating through air use throw, or warp, or stasis, or shoot them. Thats the problem you really don't have all that many options when it comes to playing ME2. Playing as an adept the only way to take down a guy with shields is shooting, against barrier; shooting or warp and against armor, shooting or warp. With tech the only way to take down barriers is shooting, and so on and so forth. Nevermind that barriers function as shields when they really shouldn't.

All this leads to powers in ME2 basically being in 3 catagories; defense strippers (spam these till health is vulnerable), CC (as the acronym implies crowd control), everything else (fancy finishing moves... and that is it.)

Lift/Throw only instant ly kills if you were outside or near a ledge, Warp kill over time, and stasis just made singularit point less no matter what. As a baston you would rather use stasis over sigularity and as a nemisis you would never use  stasis as an attack because it stops you from attacking your target. So most of the time you were stuck shooting. While in ME2.....You get some one in a sigularity, you toss a warp and then, boom......you  kill the guy and half or all his team...

Nope, Singularity effects multiple enemies (through cover, unlike in ME:2), Stasis only effects a single target, so no, singularity was nowhere near pointless.  Bastion gave you a huge boost to Barrier and allowed you to shoot through Stasis, Nemesis gave a huge boost to all cooldowns and increased the radius of CC abilities like Lift, Throw, Singularity etc, so with Nemesis you could CC more enemies more often, both were viable options.  

Yes, in ME:1 you had to shoot a lot, but you were shooting crowd controled enemies, in ME:2 all that changed was that you had to shoot them first before you could CC them, you still have to shoot a fair bit but because the enemies have less Shields in ME:2 than in ME:1 we shoot less, that is not because guns have gotten better, its just the lower shields. So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

Let me explain......A baston in mass effect 1 gain the ability to attack enemies in stasis......So if your fighting a Geth colossis, you can use stasis on it to hold it and attack while it hold. And even if you use singularity on enemies in Mess effect 1 it did no damage to enemies at all unlike singularity in ME2. In ME1, enemies stuck in a singularity had to be attack one by one in the field, it just held them long enough to be attacked by something else, most times guns and the field could not pick up more people. In ME2, singularity attacks enemies, suck more in to the field, hold enemies back and can be exploded and damage eneimies not in the field. An adept may not crowd control as much as ME1 but that was due to the pull being used only one shield less eneimies, singularty may not grab every where now but put in the right place, it it can hold all but  heavy mechs back, and eneimies can still walk into it and be blown up.

In ME 1 the final battle against Saren was, lift then shoot him, push then shoot him, pull then shoot him, singularity then shoot him then repeat.... same with all other groups of enemies, i was always trying to kill them before my team did (Wrex and his damn shotgun) Biotic CC in ME 1 was god like while in ME 2 you can hold up one Krogan while you shoot him then warp before the singularity dissipates and that wasn't long.

ME 1 Adept class used most of their powers while pushing forward like a Boss, ME 2 you were hiding behind cover like Debra.

1. Singlary dosn't work with Seran.
2.You can do that combo bit it was never instant kill or used as much as you think you can.
3.If it took you that long to kill a Krogan than something is up with you Powers....Sound like you never maxed your singularity or your class passive stats. Every time I get a krogan in a Singualarity, note only do I have time to use mulitpke powers but I can quickly kill him unless he hasmuliple shields.

[Clonedzero]

balancing classes and abilities is fairly important even in single player RPGs.

making the biotics way more powerful than other classes just makes it where everyone plays biotics and nothing else. thats pretty lame. i should have a less powerful shepard because i picked being a solider instead of an adept for roleplaying reasons? thats bad game design.

so yes, in some aspects lore comes second to gameplay. thermal clips were a purely gameplay addition with a weak lore excuse tacked on. is it a big deal? no. anyone who says otherwise is really really nitpicky.

making biotics significantly more powerful than other classes would also make squad balanced screwed up. why bring garrus if bringing lirara is a MUCH better choice?

balancing classes also helps promote replayability. who wants to play a game as the most powerful class then replay it and use a significantly weaker class. again its horrible game design.

so yeah, lorewise biotics are pretty beastly. but my ME2 vanguard and adepts were pretty damn badass themselves, they werent pushovers (yes even on the higher difficulties)

[Thezezeal]

Clonedzero wrote...

balancing classes and abilities is fairly important even in single player RPGs.

making the biotics way more powerful than other classes just makes it where everyone plays biotics and nothing else. thats pretty lame. i should have a less powerful shepard because i picked being a solider instead of an adept for roleplaying reasons? thats bad game design.

I'm not so sure about this myself. I can't remember what it was now (it was a good few years ago, and I play a LOT of Games), but one game I used to have had classes where they were specifically tailored to different difficulties-- so the first class in the list was the easiest, and the last the hardest overall. It would even give a message about how "it's your first time, maybe choose the easy class" (not word for word, obviously  )-- I can certainly see your point, but balancing classes against themselves can still be useful, and sometimes prompts more varied usage.

[Last Vizard]

dreman9999 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No in ME1 you atleast had options, enemy floating through air use throw, or warp, or stasis, or shoot them. Thats the problem you really don't have all that many options when it comes to playing ME2. Playing as an adept the only way to take down a guy with shields is shooting, against barrier; shooting or warp and against armor, shooting or warp. With tech the only way to take down barriers is shooting, and so on and so forth. Nevermind that barriers function as shields when they really shouldn't.

All this leads to powers in ME2 basically being in 3 catagories; defense strippers (spam these till health is vulnerable), CC (as the acronym implies crowd control), everything else (fancy finishing moves... and that is it.)

Lift/Throw only instant ly kills if you were outside or near a ledge, Warp kill over time, and stasis just made singularit point less no matter what. As a baston you would rather use stasis over sigularity and as a nemisis you would never use  stasis as an attack because it stops you from attacking your target. So most of the time you were stuck shooting. While in ME2.....You get some one in a sigularity, you toss a warp and then, boom......you  kill the guy and half or all his team...

Nope, Singularity effects multiple enemies (through cover, unlike in ME:2), Stasis only effects a single target, so no, singularity was nowhere near pointless.  Bastion gave you a huge boost to Barrier and allowed you to shoot through Stasis, Nemesis gave a huge boost to all cooldowns and increased the radius of CC abilities like Lift, Throw, Singularity etc, so with Nemesis you could CC more enemies more often, both were viable options.  

Yes, in ME:1 you had to shoot a lot, but you were shooting crowd controled enemies, in ME:2 all that changed was that you had to shoot them first before you could CC them, you still have to shoot a fair bit but because the enemies have less Shields in ME:2 than in ME:1 we shoot less, that is not because guns have gotten better, its just the lower shields. So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

Let me explain......A baston in mass effect 1 gain the ability to attack enemies in stasis......So if your fighting a Geth colossis, you can use stasis on it to hold it and attack while it hold. And even if you use singularity on enemies in Mess effect 1 it did no damage to enemies at all unlike singularity in ME2. In ME1, enemies stuck in a singularity had to be attack one by one in the field, it just held them long enough to be attacked by something else, most times guns and the field could not pick up more people. In ME2, singularity attacks enemies, suck more in to the field, hold enemies back and can be exploded and damage eneimies not in the field. An adept may not crowd control as much as ME1 but that was due to the pull being used only one shield less eneimies, singularty may not grab every where now but put in the right place, it it can hold all but  heavy mechs back, and eneimies can still walk into it and be blown up.

In ME 1 the final battle against Saren was, lift then shoot him, push then shoot him, pull then shoot him, singularity then shoot him then repeat.... same with all other groups of enemies, i was always trying to kill them before my team did (Wrex and his damn shotgun) Biotic CC in ME 1 was god like while in ME 2 you can hold up one Krogan while you shoot him then warp before the singularity dissipates and that wasn't long.

ME 1 Adept class used most of their powers while pushing forward like a Boss, ME 2 you were hiding behind cover like Debra.

1. Singlary dosn't work with Seran.
2.You can do that combo bit it was never instant kill or used as much as you think you can.
3.If it took you that long to kill a Krogan than something is up with you Powers....Sound like you never maxed your singularity or your class passive stats. Every time I get a krogan in a Singualarity, note only do I have time to use mulitpke powers but I can quickly kill him unless he hasmuliple shields.

1. I'm sure it does, however i could be wrong... point is that he dies pretty quick.
2. In ME 1? didn't have to be instant kill because they just drifted around a bit while my team shot them.
3. This is on Insanity... the Krogan isn't alone.
4. class powers are better in ME 1 and thats a fact ---- http://social.biowar...8/index/1716899
    ME 2 is just a TP shooter where Adepts and Engineers are nerfed.

[Last Vizard]

Clonedzero wrote...

balancing classes and abilities is fairly important even in single player RPGs.

making the biotics way more powerful than other classes just makes it where everyone plays biotics and nothing else. thats pretty lame. i should have a less powerful shepard because i picked being a solider instead of an adept for roleplaying reasons? thats bad game design.

so yes, in some aspects lore comes second to gameplay. thermal clips were a purely gameplay addition with a weak lore excuse tacked on. is it a big deal? no. anyone who says otherwise is really really nitpicky.

making biotics significantly more powerful than other classes would also make squad balanced screwed up. why bring garrus if bringing lirara is a MUCH better choice?

balancing classes also helps promote replayability. who wants to play a game as the most powerful class then replay it and use a significantly weaker class. again its horrible game design.

so yeah, lorewise biotics are pretty beastly. but my ME2 vanguard and adepts were pretty damn badass themselves, they werent pushovers (yes even on the higher difficulties)

http://social.biowar...8/index/1716899
^Read this first.

Yes i nitpick, in my job i have to be nitpicky or i die....

Adepts and Engineers in ME 2 are nerfed big time, yes thermal clips is a big deal and how does Sheps death reset all classes for all the galaxy?  suddenly biotic powers work differently...

What promots replayability in an RPG is good RPG elements, not a journey of weakness like this trilogy has turned out to be, choose different choices while using an Adept class... i read alot of Fantasy novels and IMO lore means alot, biotics shouldn't be weaker than other classes at the bloody least.

[Last Vizard]

Thezezeal wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

balancing classes and abilities is fairly important even in single player RPGs.

making the biotics way more powerful than other classes just makes it where everyone plays biotics and nothing else. thats pretty lame. i should have a less powerful shepard because i picked being a solider instead of an adept for roleplaying reasons? thats bad game design.

I'm not so sure about this myself. I can't remember what it was now (it was a good few years ago, and I play a LOT of Games), but one game I used to have had classes where they were specifically tailored to different difficulties-- so the first class in the list was the easiest, and the last the hardest overall. It would even give a message about how "it's your first time, maybe choose the easy class" (not word for word, obviously  )-- I can certainly see your point, but balancing classes against themselves can still be useful, and sometimes prompts more varied usage.

http://social.biowar...8/index/1716899
^This.

[mcsupersport]

^Nerfed from ME1?? Of course, they HAD to be otherwise the game would still be a super cakewalk for them, especially with the new combos of Warp bombs. In ME1 you lifted/disabled then shot and shot and shot at higher difficulties, and at lower you lifted/disabled then just shot some, BUT you still had to shoot, or have your squad do it. If you try to tell me this isn't the case, I say BS(I also happen to be running an Infiltrator to 60 on ME1 now), you are looking though rose colored glasses and forgetting what really happened in the game. I have completed ME1 and ME2 with every class but Sentinel, and can tell you they all have their strengths and weaknesses, but the game does a decent job balancing them.

Oh, by the way, 1000 Newtons turns out to be about the strength of a professional boxer, so it wouldn't be tearing off limbs.

Singularity does NOT work on the Hopper Saren, lift does and pull does, and if you had the right equipment then you could lift, shoot, throw shoot, lift shoot until he dies, but he ignored Singularity.

Adepts are fine, even on Insanity, very easy to control the battlefield and very powerful once you figure out how to use them. You can even do a non-shooting run if you know how to play the class, it takes a bit more thinking that just lift singularity and shoot until it drops.

[dreman9999]

1.Singularity Does not.
2. That mypoint you did more shoot as an adeptin ME1 than ME2.
3.I was also refuring to instanity. No matter what the setting is, how long the power last is based on the stats on you character.
4.Engineers are in no way nerfed, espeically compared to what they were like in ME1. Engineers are one of the strongest classes in ME2. The point is that ironcly in ME1 which is less like a tps than ME2, you do more shooting. The powers you have in ME1 are just to hold people back long enough to shoot them. In ME2,  the powers are ablut finishing them off and their teammates.

Modifié par dreman9999, 22 avril 2011 - 06:34 .

[dreman9999]

x

Modifié par dreman9999, 22 avril 2011 - 06:33 .

[aimlessgun]

Dave666 wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

You do have squadmates you know...who can easily strip protections with area abilities. Vs. any Blue Suns for example, the first instant of the battle should be Area Overload into Singularity/Pullfield on 2+ enemies.

Indeed, the problem for me is that in ME:2 the Adept needs those squaddies, most of the other classes (Engineer excluded) don't need specific squaddies to be effective, its just icing on the cake for them.  I just hate stripping the shields off an enemy, throwing a singularity on him (hoping to catch one of his friends also) and my squaddies gun him down before I can throw a warp to detonate the Singularity.  What was the point in crowd controling when the enemy died so quickly? I could have just bloody shot him.  I can't tell you how much I miss Crowd Control ME:1 style.  The Rock, Paper, Scissors protection system in ME:2 only affects the caster classes not the combat ones. Shooting is rewarded, using casters is not.  Even Average Gatsby came to this same conclusion, and I don't think anyone could claim that he doesn't know how to play the classes. See here to see what I mean.

My teammates only rarely kill a guy before I can warp him. But yes, clear speed on an Adept is slightly slower than the shooty classes because shooting is so effective. However, there are enough cases where adept powers produce comparable results that it does not feel slower. Whatever theorycrafting can be applied to the game, after playing all 6 classes through insanity, the Adept did not 'feel' weak at all.

EDIT: I read through Gatsbys post and he makes some good points. They can certainly do better in ME3. But I think ME2 was a success as far it goes.

dreman9999 wrote...
4.Engineers are in no way nerfed,
espeically compared to what they were like in ME1. Engineers are one of
the strongest classes in ME2.

Mmm...as I've said before, all the classes in ME2 can beat the game easily, and the engineer trivializes certain things, but overall clear speed is slower than other classes. And since the game is easy with every class, clear speed is the measure of 'strength'.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 22 avril 2011 - 06:59 .

[dreman9999]

aimlessgun wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

So in ME:2 the Adept couldn't really crowd control like it could in ME:1 (unless you count using Singularity to stagger a single enemy, or enjoy stripping protections on several before you use Pull or Singularity, while hoping that the enemies don't spread out and get out of the radius).

You do have squadmates you know...who can easily strip protections with area abilities. Vs. any Blue Suns for example, the first instant of the battle should be Area Overload into Singularity/Pullfield on 2+ enemies.

Indeed, the problem for me is that in ME:2 the Adept needs those squaddies, most of the other classes (Engineer excluded) don't need specific squaddies to be effective, its just icing on the cake for them.  I just hate stripping the shields off an enemy, throwing a singularity on him (hoping to catch one of his friends also) and my squaddies gun him down before I can throw a warp to detonate the Singularity.  What was the point in crowd controling when the enemy died so quickly? I could have just bloody shot him.  I can't tell you how much I miss Crowd Control ME:1 style.  The Rock, Paper, Scissors protection system in ME:2 only affects the caster classes not the combat ones. Shooting is rewarded, using casters is not.  Even Average Gatsby came to this same conclusion, and I don't think anyone could claim that he doesn't know how to play the classes. See here to see what I mean.

My teammates only rarely kill a guy before I can warp him. But yes, clear speed on an Adept is slightly slower than the shooty classes because shooting is so effective. However, there are enough cases where adept powers produce comparable results that it does not feel slower. Whatever theorycrafting can be applied to the game, after playing all 6 classes through insanity, the Adept did not 'feel' weak at all.

dreman9999 wrote...
4.Engineers are in no way nerfed,
espeically compared to what they were like in ME1. Engineers are one of
the strongest classes in ME2.

Mmm...as I've said before, all the classes in ME2 can beat the game easily, and the engineer trivializes certain things, but overall clear speed is slower than other classes. And since the game is easy with every class, clear speed is the measure of 'strength'.

Not engineers arn't really slow.  All you have to do to throw a droid and take out shields and burn/freeze people to death.... Plus, Sentianls throw the speed theary out the window. Tech shield and  area energy drain destroys everything but krogan.

[aimlessgun]

The reason I say clear speed is slower is not because engineers are slow, but because the other classes are so fast. Vangaurd just 1-shots everything, as does infiltrator and widow soldier, while a skilled Mattock soldier can kill 3 mooks in a single AR, and Sentinel of course doesn't have to stop ever so even though it kills things slightly slower it moves through levels quickly.

[DPSSOC]

mcsupersport wrote...
^Nerfed from ME1?? Of course, they HAD to be otherwise the game would still be a super cakewalk for them, especially with the new combos of Warp bombs.

 
No.  The answer to overpowered classes is not to pull them back, that's lazy and creates a massive disconnect especially in a series (as evidenced by this thread).  What you do is make enemies and other classes more powerful to compensate, so rather than being a god among insects you're now a god among other gods.

Example by the end of ME1 my Shep could lift a Collosus clear off the ground, in ME2 I can't even get a heavy mech airborne.  Similarly in ME1 the Soldier could be a tank, absorbing damage rather than avoiding it.  In ME2 this has been cut, all Sheps wear the same armor and a Soldier can't stand up to anymore firepower than an Adept.

Now I felt the classes in ME1 were fairly well balanced; Biotics were CC masters, Techs were Cripplers, and Combats were tanks.  In ME2 the different classes just feel like different flavours not different roles.  Can anyone here honestly say they're playstyle changes greatly based on the class they're playing?  Or is it just; get behind cover, strip the defenses, kill over and over with every class?

[dreman9999]

aimlessgun wrote...

The reason I say clear speed is slower is not because engineers are slow, but because the other classes are so fast. Vangaurd just 1-shots everything, as does infiltrator and widow soldier, while a skilled Mattock soldier can kill 3 mooks in a single AR, and Sentinel of course doesn't have to stop ever so even though it kills things slightly slower it moves through levels quickly.

I know, but fast speed mean lower defence. Risk to get reward. Their was a time when Vanguards in ME2 was underpowered. Look at them now.
And Sentials are still the most powerful class in the game.
It may take a little longer to kill everyone as an engineer but my god you create chaos as you do it, it like one part of the eneimes don't know where to aim, another part can't shoot, another is on fire, another is frozen and the rest are running from the heavy ymir mech they throw at you that you just hacked.

[dreman9999]

DPSSOC wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...
^Nerfed from ME1?? Of course, they HAD to be otherwise the game would still be a super cakewalk for them, especially with the new combos of Warp bombs.

 
No.  The answer to overpowered classes is not to pull them back, that's lazy and creates a massive disconnect especially in a series (as evidenced by this thread).  What you do is make enemies and other classes more powerful to compensate, so rather than being a god among insects you're now a god among other gods.

Example by the end of ME1 my Shep could lift a Collosus clear off the ground, in ME2 I can't even get a heavy mech airborne.  Similarly in ME1 the Soldier could be a tank, absorbing damage rather than avoiding it.  In ME2 this has been cut, all Sheps wear the same armor and a Soldier can't stand up to anymore firepower than an Adept.

Now I felt the classes in ME1 were fairly well balanced; Biotics were CC masters, Techs were Cripplers, and Combats were tanks.  In ME2 the different classes just feel like different flavours not different roles.  Can anyone here honestly say they're playstyle changes greatly based on the class they're playing?  Or is it just; get behind cover, strip the defenses, kill over and over with every class?

That not the salution ether. Give everyone a one hit kill just makes it so that the first one to use it wins. I like what the did with the class. (And yes, you can lift a heavy mech)
Story wise ,it logical because if you have squad of solders you would want a way to stop a move that would kill every one in one move, you would pay anything. And if you knew and adept could do that, you would get any tech to make sure that that adept would not kill everyone on you team in one hit. Biotic powers from ME1 to ME2 is and example of tech evolving. It adds more to the lore. And to add on top of that you can do more damage now as an adept with your powers alown than  you could in ME1.

[Kabanya101]

DPSSOC wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...
^Nerfed from ME1?? Of course, they HAD to be otherwise the game would still be a super cakewalk for them, especially with the new combos of Warp bombs.

 
No.  The answer to overpowered classes is not to pull them back, that's lazy and creates a massive disconnect especially in a series (as evidenced by this thread).  What you do is make enemies and other classes more powerful to compensate, so rather than being a god among insects you're now a god among other gods.

Example by the end of ME1 my Shep could lift a Collosus clear off the ground, in ME2 I can't even get a heavy mech airborne.  Similarly in ME1 the Soldier could be a tank, absorbing damage rather than avoiding it.  In ME2 this has been cut, all Sheps wear the same armor and a Soldier can't stand up to anymore firepower than an Adept.

Now I felt the classes in ME1 were fairly well balanced; Biotics were CC masters, Techs were Cripplers, and Combats were tanks.  In ME2 the different classes just feel like different flavours not different roles.  Can anyone here honestly say they're playstyle changes greatly based on the class they're playing?  Or is it just; get behind cover, strip the defenses, kill over and over with every class?

Thank god someone has the same ideas as me. I had time to play as all classes in both MEs. And I felt that my soldier, which is my favorite class, was tremendously weak in ME2. Your right, all the sheps in ME2 were all weak, not only was the armor terribel, but the raw power was taken away from the character too. The armor did nothing in ME2, so there was barely any protection, even with all the upgrades, which made every fight the same.
1. Run to cover
2. Poke your head out
3. Strip shields/protection
4. Kill, loot ammo

A lot of people complain about how characters were too strong in ME1, and I'd rather be overpowered than weak and useless. If your overpowered, you can play on a harder difficulty, if your weak, your going to suck and die a lot, unless with maticulous planning. ME1 had every class play with a different style, hang back, throw people, run and gun, and even punch people in the mouth. ME2 is all the same. The only thing class determines is what guns you have and what one shot wonder of a move you have.

Replaying ME1 was fun and always changing, I got sick of playing ME2 after the second playthrough, the only reason why I kept playing was cause of graphics and to try the other classes, other than that it was the biggest waste of time.

[dreman9999]

Kabanya101 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...
^Nerfed from ME1?? Of course, they HAD to be otherwise the game would still be a super cakewalk for them, especially with the new combos of Warp bombs.

 
No.  The answer to overpowered classes is not to pull them back, that's lazy and creates a massive disconnect especially in a series (as evidenced by this thread).  What you do is make enemies and other classes more powerful to compensate, so rather than being a god among insects you're now a god among other gods.

Example by the end of ME1 my Shep could lift a Collosus clear off the ground, in ME2 I can't even get a heavy mech airborne.  Similarly in ME1 the Soldier could be a tank, absorbing damage rather than avoiding it.  In ME2 this has been cut, all Sheps wear the same armor and a Soldier can't stand up to anymore firepower than an Adept.

Now I felt the classes in ME1 were fairly well balanced; Biotics were CC masters, Techs were Cripplers, and Combats were tanks.  In ME2 the different classes just feel like different flavours not different roles.  Can anyone here honestly say they're playstyle changes greatly based on the class they're playing?  Or is it just; get behind cover, strip the defenses, kill over and over with every class?

Thank god someone has the same ideas as me. I had time to play as all classes in both MEs. And I felt that my soldier, which is my favorite class, was tremendously weak in ME2. Your right, all the sheps in ME2 were all weak, not only was the armor terribel, but the raw power was taken away from the character too. The armor did nothing in ME2, so there was barely any protection, even with all the upgrades, which made every fight the same.
1. Run to cover
2. Poke your head out
3. Strip shields/protection
4. Kill, loot ammo

A lot of people complain about how characters were too strong in ME1, and I'd rather be overpowered than weak and useless. If your overpowered, you can play on a harder difficulty, if your weak, your going to suck and die a lot, unless with maticulous planning. ME1 had every class play with a different style, hang back, throw people, run and gun, and even punch people in the mouth. ME2 is all the same. The only thing class determines is what guns you have and what one shot wonder of a move you have.

Replaying ME1 was fun and always changing, I got sick of playing ME2 after the second playthrough, the only reason why I kept playing was cause of graphics and to try the other classes, other than that it was the biggest waste of time.

This is compare to ignoring the cover system and tanking through the game as a solder in ME1?  Solders are fast in ME2 with Highten adrinalin rush or take more dameage with harden rush. You just don't have both. Doing what Kabanya with a solder class would just make it so that ME2 plays like a tps Halo, it would be like fighting krogan in ME1 with a Solder.
Making everyone with one hit kill would just make it so that the fastest one wins all the time.  

[mcsupersport]

IF you make everyone and everything more powerful, then you have "nerfed" the class you are trying to balance against. Would it make you feel better if they threw 50 guys at you that you can kill in waves(see DA2) or a few that make you work a bit more?? The Adept isn't the same as in ME1, and that is a good thing, because it was so silly to be able to take EVERYONE you faced in a fight and float them on the ceiling and then just shoot some skeet. That may have been cool, and the only way to beat insanity because of the Immunity spam, but it wasn't a good combat game. If you want that kind of play on ME2 it is easy to have, play on Veteran level, and you will be a god among men. Insanity should be about making you work for the kills, and not be a walk in the park. Right now you can take an adept through Insanity and not fire a single shot and beat the game. Right now you can explode and create mayhem everywhere with an adept, IF YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY THEM. I am sorry you want to play a cheesecake easy game, and are unhappy that ME2 isn't it on Insanity.

As far as ME1 Engineers go, once they hit a decently high level ie above 30 or so they were Gods of the Battlefield as well. I finally played one through to a higher level and couldn't believe how powerful they were, by taking EVERYONE out of the fight letting you just stand in the middle of the room and blast away.