256 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

Lvl20DM wrote...

I wouldn't mind them trying out something a bit different with defenses in ME3. While it worked in ME2, I think more powers should bypass defenses (to one extent or another).

I would not even have minded something along the lines of

Barriers block biotics but not tech

Shields block nothing (and all enemies have it like in ME1)

Armor blocks Tech but not Biotics

explains the geth Prime having armor (he has many more programs than the average geth so he can still be smart enough on the battlefield even if temporarily isolated)..

explains the Biotic powers having issues with barriers (they are clashing with another biotic power ala Morinth VS Samara)

and that feels more like areal rock paper scissor system and adds a layer of tactics since you could bring 2 techs in the Samara recruitment mission and have them mess with the Eclipse systers by bypassing their biotics whereas biotics in your team would be  less useful if you brought them with you

[Admoniter]

I'm curious how would kinetic barriers even stop a hacking attempt? They are after all just Mass Effect fields how is it possible for them to outright stop a signal from reaching them which doesn't have mass to affect? I mean I suppose if your kinetic barriers created a ME field so intense that a singularity was formed and as a result the signal might be slowed down but it would still reach the target.

This is has already been stated but why bother creating such an encompassing universe and all the relevant fluff when your just going to ignore it when you can't think of a better way to balance classes.

Modifié par Admoniter, 23 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[crimzontearz]

I guess it was a matter of choice

they could have made Biotics more effective but have a higher cooldown OR they could have nerfed them and allowed defense to thrump them in order to make them "spammable"

I dunno maybe they were catering to people with a short attention span?

maybe they wanted to allow them to "push a button so something awesome would happen?"

I dunno honestly...ME is still my favorite serie of all times but I hope they bring back more depth in ME3

[Admoniter]

crimzontearz wrote...
Barriers block biotics but not tech

On a sidenote I think Barriers should be brought back to how they were handled in ME1. I.e. Biotic enemies use shields like everyone else, but have the capacity to create a barrier around themselves for a massive boost in protection. From a lore perspective always on barrier really doesn't make sense and from the gameplay side of things they are just a fancy name for shields, with an additional weakness and resistance.

Modifié par Admoniter, 23 avril 2011 - 07:59 .

[crimzontearz]

Admoniter wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
Barriers block biotics but not tech

On a sidenote I think Barriers should be brought back to how they were handled in ME1. I.e. Biotic enemies use shields like everyone else, but have the capacity to create a barrier around themselves for a massive boost in protection. From a lore perspective always on barrier really doesn't make sense and from the gameplay side of things they are just a fancy name for shields, with an additional weakness and resistance.

agreed

[Dave666]

Lvl20DM wrote...

I wouldn't mind them trying out something a bit different with defenses in ME3. While it worked in ME2, I think more powers should bypass defenses (to one extent or another).

See, now this I wouldn't mind.  Give us a reason for choosing the Heavy versions of powers like Throw and Pull.  Have the Heavy versions penetrate defences but with less effect.  Heavy Throw against a protected enemy could throw them on their arses, they then have to get back up again and they are not shooting at you during this.  It would still be balanced because you can only affect one enemy, his friends would still be shooting at you.  If he was on his own then it wouldn't matter anyway, he's already as good as dead.

[Aumata]

I don't really see how hard it is to not recognize the gimping that was done on the tech and biotic skills? ME1 tech skills was about crippling and damaging foes. You can stop a biotic and tech user. You can overload people weapons, stun a organic, hack a synthetic. I don't get that type of gameplay in ME2 on the engineer of all classes. Biotic skills, CC and damaging. Having people in a biotic field to take them down. ME2 I barely got that. ME2 engineer and adept are a cleverly disguise palate swap of the same class.

While people say biotics got nerfed. The fact is that tech skills was damn near obliterated for the protection system.

[crimzontearz]

Dave666 wrote...

Lvl20DM wrote...

I wouldn't mind them trying out something a bit different with defenses in ME3. While it worked in ME2, I think more powers should bypass defenses (to one extent or another).

See, now this I wouldn't mind.  Give us a reason for choosing the Heavy versions of powers like Throw and Pull.  Have the Heavy versions penetrate defences but with less effect.  Heavy Throw against a protected enemy could throw them on their arses, they then have to get back up again and they are not shooting at you during this.  It would still be balanced because you can only affect one enemy, his friends would still be shooting at you.  If he was on his own then it wouldn't matter anyway, he's already as good as dead.

also very possible and I agree but it would make heavy shockwave a teensy bit overpowered since it is already an area-effect power

[Dave666]

Admoniter wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
Barriers block biotics but not tech

On a sidenote I think Barriers should be brought back to how they were handled in ME1. I.e. Biotic enemies use shields like everyone else, but have the capacity to create a barrier around themselves for a massive boost in protection. From a lore perspective always on barrier really doesn't make sense and from the gameplay side of things they are just a fancy name for shields, with an additional weakness and resistance.

That is soooo wierd! I just posted something about that in another thread!  

[Admoniter]

Dave666 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
Barriers block biotics but not tech

On a sidenote I think Barriers should be brought back to how they were handled in ME1. I.e. Biotic enemies use shields like everyone else, but have the capacity to create a barrier around themselves for a massive boost in protection. From a lore perspective always on barrier really doesn't make sense and from the gameplay side of things they are just a fancy name for shields, with an additional weakness and resistance.

That is soooo wierd! I just posted something about that in another thread!  

I believe an internet high five is in order.

[Dave666]

Admoniter wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
Barriers block biotics but not tech

On a sidenote I think Barriers should be brought back to how they were handled in ME1. I.e. Biotic enemies use shields like everyone else, but have the capacity to create a barrier around themselves for a massive boost in protection. From a lore perspective always on barrier really doesn't make sense and from the gameplay side of things they are just a fancy name for shields, with an additional weakness and resistance.

That is soooo wierd! I just posted something about that in another thread!  

I believe an internet high five is in order.

Agreed! *High Five*

[crimzontearz]

in all this I want to add something because the possible negativity here is...well a lil too much

Bioware listens....don't believe me?

We wanted to romance Tali and Garrus? Got that in ME2
We wanted different armor models for Shepard? we got them in ME2
We wanted a geth Shotgun? GPS was added
We wanted laser sights weapons? Phalanx was added
We wanted (and I made a thread specifically about it) a single shot rifle ala Hammerburst? We got the Mattock
A LOT of people wanted to reconcile with Liara? the option was given in LOTSB
We wanted modular weapons (hell I asked for that as well in a thread I made)? DUDE..we are getting them in ME3 and if we are lucky even modular powers! (look at my thread http://social.biowar...5/index/7158988)

so..let's not despair and see what bioware is gonna do

[Evercrow]

Dave666 wrote...


Question, how does it balance out the classes?

The only classes that feels the Rock, Paper, Scissors protection system are the Adept and the Engineer.  The Sentinel can deal with any defence, the Soldier can one shot enemies regardless of defences (Widow), as can the Infiltrator (Widow) and the Vangard isn't far behind (Claymore).

Really? Only adept and engineer? With warp, incinerate and overload as base skills?And SMG as main gun to strip shields -you don't even have to get Energy Drain(or such) as additional power(which become available around the same time you get Widow or Claymore).Now imagine if you can't headshot every enemy with a Widow(it's oneshot lowest enemies only in the head.Not oneshoting will result in ammo shortage), AND powers easily bypass defences.What would be the point of picking Soldier if you can just sit in cover and spam selfguided powers?

Of course, introducing a lore-explained defences would be better, but they did various difficulty levels, thats good enough for me. You won't have any problems against defences on Veteran difficulty already.

I would not even have minded something along the lines of

Barriers block biotics but not tech

Shields block nothing (and all enemies have it like in ME1)

Armor blocks Tech but not Biotics


that feels more like areal rock paper scissor system and adds a layer
of tactics since you could bring 2 techs in the Samara recruitment
mission and have them mess with the Eclipse systers by bypassing their
biotics whereas biotics in your team would be  less useful if you
brought them with you

Aren't it already working this way, only in different order? Techs bad against barriers, but biotics(and concussion shots,btw) are good against it and so forth.
I mean, you only need two-three incinerates to bring down Harbinger armor.If you have teammate with one, you need only 6 seconds(cooldown on incinerate) for that.
If any power could completely bypass defence it would defeat the whole point of having them.Every power has its own lasting effect on unshielded enemies and most powerful ones are knockdown\\incapacitation(hell, husks are insta-ripped by biotics even on insanity).Imagine incinerate bypassing barrier of eclipse merc to cook him alive inside it - he can't even pat himself out this way. Would that be good for game balance(and game lore)?
The way it works now - certain powers are effective against one\\two type of defence is good by me. I don't want this ruined by some OP elements on Insanity mode( I don't mind it on lower difficulties though)

Btw, great ideas on evolution of powers - indeed, varying not only intensity, but also concentration of power could make for some interesting effects on enemies.For example, overloading specifically enemy head with concentrated power would lead to the incapacitation similar to toxic shock.

Modifié par Evercrow, 23 avril 2011 - 08:27 .

[crimzontearz]

because it would allow for a more lore based gameplay closer to ME1 but still on the falseline of ME2 pleasing pretty much everyone

also....it would make sense since anyone in a hardsuit should have shields in the ME universe

[The Spamming Troll]

crimzontearz wrote...

in all this I want to add something because the possible negativity here is...well a lil too much

Bioware listens....don't believe me?

We wanted to romance Tali and Garrus? Got that in ME2
We wanted different armor models for Shepard? we got them in ME2
We wanted a geth Shotgun? GPS was added
We wanted laser sights weapons? Phalanx was added
We wanted (and I made a thread specifically about it) a single shot rifle ala Hammerburst? We got the Mattock
A LOT of people wanted to reconcile with Liara? the option was given in LOTSB
We wanted modular weapons (hell I asked for that as well in a thread I made)? DUDE..we are getting them in ME3 and if we are lucky even modular powers! (look at my thread http://social.biowar...5/index/7158988)

so..let's not despair and see what bioware is gonna do

unfortunately for me, ME2 is the reason i wont be preordering ME3. but ME1 is the reason ill rent ME3 on some random weekend. its impossible to really trust bioware with the ME franchise because ME1 and ME2 are such differnt games.

what will ME3 be like??? who ****in knows!?!?!?

[Evercrow]

I repeat, any difficulty lower then Hardcore allow for a more "lore based gameplay". I don't see how turning back to ME1 would help the lore and balance.

Gimped powers?I say, they were OP in ME1.With right squad, Saren can't even attack once if you rotate disabling powers and use Adrenaline, on any difficulty.That's not how boss fights should be.
Barriers by biotics, overloading weapons and incapacitating abilities like toxic and concussive shots are still in ME2, and they work.

Now having a Heavy variant of Throw push defenced enemy on its ass for a couple of seconds is also what I like to see in ME3. The abilities should be worked on, I don't deny, but ME1-like powers with fully bypassing - spare me that.

[crimzontearz]

higher difficulties should not rip the lore just for the sake of being harder, that's an easy way out worse than halo 2'a auto turret omniscent infallibe enemies. There are better ways

[Evercrow]

I still didn't hear how OP abilities and denying the whole "defence block powers" concept would help with game balance. They shouldn't rip out the lore for harder modes, but they should rip harder modes for the sake of lore(because that's what OP powers will do)?

Building on what they already have in ME2 would be more healthy way of spending budget.

[Aumata]

Evercrow wrote...

I repeat, any difficulty lower then Hardcore allow for a more "lore based gameplay". I don't see how turning back to ME1 would help the lore and balance.

Gimped powers?I say, they were OP in ME1.With right squad, Saren can't even attack once if you rotate disabling powers and use Adrenaline, on any difficulty.That's not how boss fights should be.
Barriers by biotics, overloading weapons and incapacitating abilities like toxic and concussive shots are still in ME2, and they work.

Now having a Heavy variant of Throw push defenced enemy on its ass for a couple of seconds is also what I like to see in ME3. The abilities should be worked on, I don't deny, but ME1-like powers with fully bypassing - spare me that.

1)Yeah, that still doesn't change the fact that adept and engineer are a palate swap class.

2)Doesn't change the fact that tech skills are practiaclly gone because of the damn protection system, so no crippling the enemies.

3)Doesn't change the fact that the Guns can, and will strip a defense faster than what your tech and biotic skill can.

Protection system screwed over the biotics and tech classes.  Doesn't offer me a different playthrough of the game mechanics on caster classes.  I get a different playthrough on the combat classes, as I have to learn and adapt using their strengths.  Caster classes?  Modified the uses of your signature skill set, and play like the other casters.  Singualrity - Drone on bigger threats.  Incinerate - warp on armor.  Cryo - pull, throw, singularity  on health.  shoot - overload shields.  warp - shoot on barriers.  Covering your weakness can be solved by usage of reave on engineer and ED on adept.  So much for offering a different game style.

[crimzontearz]

Higher difficulties can be handled by adding more elite units and heavy units immune to certain powers like in ME1

I still think rock-paper-scissor bypassable defenses (with armor and barrier being overlaid to shield after activations) would work best

[tonnactus]

dreman9999 wrote...

Niddy' wrote...

Having to wait in between using abilities was a stupid idea. They need to remove this from the game. Really tired of everything in Mass Effect being a hurry up and wait game.

ME2 system...
*Uses pull*
*2 secs later, uses push.*
No problems.

ME1 system..
*Uses lift*
*Uses push*
*Waits 10 -20 secs to use again*
.

Only at the beginning.Not with the right upgrades and specialisation later.

[Kabanya101]

Protection system was completely flawed in ME2. It ruined all classes, and there build and what they stand for. The soldier is a front liner, the adept is a support "gunner," and the engineer is the healer/crippler. In ME2, it took away all those pieces of the fighting style of gameplay, and gave every shephard the same protection. The only one that had the best protection was the sentinel with the armor power, that makes no sense, that goes against everything the sentinel was in ME1.

Everybody says the soldier was powerful in ME2, but it wasn't. Sure with AR, the attacks outweighed all powers or attacks by anyone else, but only because of the protection flaw the game had. BUT......what happened to the soldier in ME1. Sure with so and so upgrades, armor, you were invincible, but that was what the super soldier is suppose to be. Maybe not to the extent of ME1, but in ME3 the soldier should have the most health and the highest shielding and armor. Not other classes, unless the have barrier.

OH.....and another nerf that the game had was having a universal cool down timer. Honestly, what was the point in multiple powers if you couldn't use them. Sure the low recharge time was great, but I wanted to combine multiple powers of my own, AR and HCS. But I couldn't.

[The Spamming Troll]

tonnactus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Niddy' wrote...

Having
to wait in between using abilities was a stupid idea. They need to
remove this from the game. Really tired of everything in Mass Effect
being a hurry up and wait game.

ME2 system...
*Uses pull*
*2 secs later, uses push.*
No problems.

ME1 system..
*Uses lift*
*Uses push*
*Waits 10 -20 secs to use again*
.

Only at the beginning.Not with the right upgrades and specialisation later.

also, abilities in ME1 take about 6ish seconds to recharge. not to mention i have twice as many abilities in my arsenal as well in ME1. its not as simple as your trying to make it.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 23 avril 2011 - 10:26 .

[Last Vizard]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Make enemies more powerful and bring them up to Shep's level? Make Shep less powerful and bring him down to the enemies level? 0 + 1 = X. 2 - 1 = X. Either path nets the same gameplay Bioware is aiming for. This is just a perception issue.

^ Journey of weakness if Shep is made less powerful though.

[Last Vizard]

crimzontearz wrote...

depends on the game

Starkiller is a god in the battlefieldbut the gameplay is still fun. Does not help ME2 tho does it since ME is shooter based right?
Also, I'd rather have effective biotic powers with long cooldowns as opposed to spammable nerfed powers

^this