256 réponses à ce sujet

[The Spamming Troll]

Last Vizard wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

depends on the game

Starkiller is a god in the battlefieldbut the gameplay is still fun. Does not help ME2 tho does it since ME is shooter based right?
Also, I'd rather have effective biotic powers with long cooldowns as opposed to spammable nerfed powers

^this

this too.

[100k]

Aumata wrote...

The caster classes are gimped. They play a modified version of each other. The caster mechanics are pretty much the same (minus sentinel).
Shoot,Warp, singularity - Shoot,overload, drone.
Shoot,warp, singularity - Shoot,Incinerate, drone.
Cryo, Incinerate, shoot, overload, AI hack, Drone - Shoot, warp, pull, throw, shock-wave singularity

Modified tactics based on the drone, AI hacking, warp bomb, Pull+shock-wave and the pull+throw. Compensate weakness of engineer by giving reave, and adept, energy drain. That is the way I played a caster class. I only had to modified the way I played based on biotics combos and the usage of drone and AI hacking. Which can easily be nullified by getting dominate.

If earlier this week someone would have told me that the Caster class was gimped I would have told them they were wrong. Finishing my playthrough on a engineer told me otherwise. They are to much of the same to counter the protection system in place. Bioware shouldn't balance their game play on normal, they should balance it on hardcore.

Which is why I say that the three main classes; Engineers, Adapts, and Soldiers, should each play EXTREMELY different from the next, right down to animations, weapons, and skills. 

Main class 1. A Soldier utilizes guns completely. Their special abilities lie in healing, adrenaline rushes, and weapons. We are all familiar with this class, so there's not a lot to explain beyond the obvious.

--Halfway between class. Infiltrator, using close combat and long distance skills is the class between Soldier and Engineer. Utilizing some tech skills, and some weapon skills. Stealth boosts close combat melee tech gauntlets (see below). Sniper rifles and pistols as the default starting weapons, with an additional weapon space earned later on. Good hacking skills, and the ability to instantly track all enemies on the battle field AND their patrol/movement paths. No tech shielding, turrets, drones, or wrist rockets. The infiltrator is the second quickest class, after the Adept. They cannot use heavy weapons (unless trained).

Main class 2. Engineers use tech skills; tech shielding, tech gauntlets (for melee--think Kasumi), building of turrets, hacking, drones, and wrist rockets, to fight and defend themselves and team mates. Shooting the main guns takes a back seat, as they can only carry two close range weapons (default being shotguns and SMGs), which can be upgraded to any weapon eventually. They have the greatest weapon mod perks, as every normal perk for a Soldier or other classes gets a +10% boost. Like the soldier, they can carry heavy weapons. During game play, the engineer is the heaviest class in terms of speed and turning, however they have the best shields overall.

--Halfway between class. Sentinel, utilizes short range guns (SMGs and shotguns). However, their main use is of unique biotics combined with tech skills. They can throw biotic grenades that create singularities and pull fields. Incinerate and cryo are the result of wrist rockets. Like Engineers, they can activate tech shields, though not as strong. All of their biotics are the result of technology, meaning that they can't use biotics like pull, grip, and push freehand. They can also throw biotic drone spheres that strike enemies with electricity, incinerate them, or blast enemies with cryogenic gel, before warping and shattering them. This is the equivalent of their heavy weapon.

Main class 3. Adapts are the quickest and deadliest non gun users. While they sacrifice shields for biotic barriers (which very in success), and can only ever carry one firearm, they more than make up for that with speed and biotic power. Their main abilities range from grabbing and throwing enemies, throwing biotic projectiles, and warping an enemy with extremely quick cool down time. Adapts also have biotic gauntlets that can crush an enemy at close range. They can only carry a pistol, or later a shotgun/SMG. Their heavy weapon equivalents are incredibly deadly biotic attacks, like singularities that outmatch anything the black storm weapon fires. Biotic tornadoes that hurl even armored enemies around like stones. Long rang biotic blasts that toss aside everything in the way. And a biotic attack that sucks all enemies to a single point in the air via a tiny but strong singularity, slamming them helplessly together into a humiliating ball, before being thrown apart.

--Halfway between class. Vanguard's are between Soldiers and Adapts. Exactly like they are now in ME2, so there's not a lot to say. Vanguards cannot use heavy biotic attacks, but get two of the lower cool down biotic attacks, along with biotic charge. To balance this, they can use heavy weapons. On top of that, they have excellent use of three weapons of their choice + an additional weapon later on. 

(This sounds complex, but its really not. The key thing is that the three main classes change up the main game play completely when changed to the next main class. The half way classes are balances between the main classes. Imagine these classes on a triangle, with the main classes at the points, and the sub classes in between each respective point)

[Aumata]

Kabanya101 wrote...

Protection system was completely flawed in ME2. It ruined all classes, and there build and what they stand for. The soldier is a front liner, the adept is a support "gunner," and the engineer is the healer/crippler. In ME2, it took away all those pieces of the fighting style of gameplay, and gave every shephard the same protection. The only one that had the best protection was the sentinel with the armor power, that makes no sense, that goes against everything the sentinel was in ME1.

Everybody says the soldier was powerful in ME2, but it wasn't. Sure with AR, the attacks outweighed all powers or attacks by anyone else, but only because of the protection flaw the game had. BUT......what happened to the soldier in ME1. Sure with so and so upgrades, armor, you were invincible, but that was what the super soldier is suppose to be. Maybe not to the extent of ME1, but in ME3 the soldier should have the most health and the highest shielding and armor. Not other classes, unless the have barrier.

OH.....and another nerf that the game had was having a universal cool down timer. Honestly, what was the point in multiple powers if you couldn't use them. Sure the low recharge time was great, but I wanted to combine multiple powers of my own, AR and HCS. But I couldn't.

I miss what the classes did.  Which is why I don't like the current system now.  I didn't have a problem with the adept till I did a engineer run.  Engineer really got screwed because I can't cripple folks so I did my run as a adept play through.  Shouldn't have happen when I pick another class.

The protection system works best, if it was more of vanguard, infiltrator, and soldier classes.  But it isn't the case we have the other three classes that is more caster focus.  Not to mention that techs are suppose to cripple, while biotics is CC.  I agree when someone said that I would rather have a longer cooldown with power, than a nerf power with spamable cooldowns.  Honestly I find it bizarre how the caster classes are considered OP in ME1.  Pretty sure the combat classes was OP in the tanking department and power.  Vanguards was a CC, cqc, tank.  Soldiers were straight up tanks, that can dish out damage.  Infilitrator can cripple and blow people heads off from a distance that and tank also.  Sentinels were supporters, and also cable of crippling and CC.  Adept straight up CC.  Engineers straight up Crippling.

Tech class can easily become tanks because of shield increase.  Combat classes were able to be tanks through health.  Biotics tank through barrier because of they had the lowest health and defenses.  Something I would like to see in Mass Effect 3.  I would also like the return of the way the classes works in ME1.  Drop the protection system,  give immunites to some bosses and elites and focus on the enemies on higher levels using the same skills as what we have.  Insanity should have been about usage of squads mates, skills, and shooting.  With the added bonus of health, shields, aggressiveness,  modified weapons, increase level and accruacy or what ever the way you guys do it in Mass Effect difficutly scale.  With the larger levels, I think fluid level design, and smarter AI you probably won't end up needing protection system anymore.  Though I do want to give props for making the hybrid classes more of their own style though.  What I want to see in ME3 insanity.

Oh on that note.  No gimping of teammates please.

[Last Vizard]

Evercrow wrote...

I still didn't hear how OP abilities and denying the whole "defence block powers" concept would help with game balance. They shouldn't rip out the lore for harder modes, but they should rip harder modes for the sake of lore(because that's what OP powers will do)?

Building on what they already have in ME2 would be more healthy way of spending budget.

Guess it was my fault for mistaking ME 2 for an RPG, pretty much my fault for trying to play a caster like a caster when i should've been playing the shooter like a shooter.... Its a Journey of weakness when you switch from RPG to TPS, whats worse is that Adept powers in ME 1 look completely different to ME 2 powers while also having less diversity.....

ME 2
Garrus: "Shep, what the hell is wrong with you?"
Adept Shep: "Got a headache"
Garrus: "I thought L2 implants were the bad ones plus Cerberus gave you newer and better implants didn't they?"
Adept Shep: "Yep" *sways a little*
Garrus: "Kaiden said you were the only L3 Adept that was stronger than L2s like you were the one of a kind? "
Adept Shep: "look, i F@ckin died ok"
Garrus: "Well pull your Sh!t together for ME 3"
Adept Shep: "not buyin med bay for your face anymore" *sways again from arguing*
Garrus: "f-in leave you to die somewhere" .. ....  ......*grumble grumble*

Mass effect 3 your our only hope, it'll still be a Journey of weakness though if ME 3 Adept doesn't finish stronger than ME 1.

[Last Vizard]

100k wrote...

Aumata wrote...

The caster classes are gimped. They play a modified version of each other. The caster mechanics are pretty much the same (minus sentinel).
Shoot,Warp, singularity - Shoot,overload, drone.
Shoot,warp, singularity - Shoot,Incinerate, drone.
Cryo, Incinerate, shoot, overload, AI hack, Drone - Shoot, warp, pull, throw, shock-wave singularity

Modified tactics based on the drone, AI hacking, warp bomb, Pull+shock-wave and the pull+throw. Compensate weakness of engineer by giving reave, and adept, energy drain. That is the way I played a caster class. I only had to modified the way I played based on biotics combos and the usage of drone and AI hacking. Which can easily be nullified by getting dominate.

If earlier this week someone would have told me that the Caster class was gimped I would have told them they were wrong. Finishing my playthrough on a engineer told me otherwise. They are to much of the same to counter the protection system in place. Bioware shouldn't balance their game play on normal, they should balance it on hardcore.

Which is why I say that the three main classes; Engineers, Adapts, and Soldiers, should each play EXTREMELY different from the next, right down to animations, weapons, and skills. 

Main class 1. A Soldier utilizes guns completely. Their special abilities lie in healing, adrenaline rushes, and weapons. We are all familiar with this class, so there's not a lot to explain beyond the obvious.

--Halfway between class. Infiltrator, using close combat and long distance skills is the class between Soldier and Engineer. Utilizing some tech skills, and some weapon skills. Stealth boosts close combat melee tech gauntlets (see below). Sniper rifles and pistols as the default starting weapons, with an additional weapon space earned later on. Good hacking skills, and the ability to instantly track all enemies on the battle field AND their patrol/movement paths. No tech shielding, turrets, drones, or wrist rockets. The infiltrator is the second quickest class, after the Adept. They cannot use heavy weapons (unless trained).

Main class 2. Engineers use tech skills; tech shielding, tech gauntlets (for melee--think Kasumi), building of turrets, hacking, drones, and wrist rockets, to fight and defend themselves and team mates. Shooting the main guns takes a back seat, as they can only carry two close range weapons (default being shotguns and SMGs), which can be upgraded to any weapon eventually. They have the greatest weapon mod perks, as every normal perk for a Soldier or other classes gets a +10% boost. Like the soldier, they can carry heavy weapons. During game play, the engineer is the heaviest class in terms of speed and turning, however they have the best shields overall.

--Halfway between class. Sentinel, utilizes short range guns (SMGs and shotguns). However, their main use is of unique biotics combined with tech skills. They can throw biotic grenades that create singularities and pull fields. Incinerate and cryo are the result of wrist rockets. Like Engineers, they can activate tech shields, though not as strong. All of their biotics are the result of technology, meaning that they can't use biotics like pull, grip, and push freehand. They can also throw biotic drone spheres that strike enemies with electricity, incinerate them, or blast enemies with cryogenic gel, before warping and shattering them. This is the equivalent of their heavy weapon.

Main class 3. Adapts are the quickest and deadliest non gun users. While they sacrifice shields for biotic barriers (which very in success), and can only ever carry one firearm, they more than make up for that with speed and biotic power. Their main abilities range from grabbing and throwing enemies, throwing biotic projectiles, and warping an enemy with extremely quick cool down time. Adapts also have biotic gauntlets that can crush an enemy at close range. They can only carry a pistol, or later a shotgun/SMG. Their heavy weapon equivalents are incredibly deadly biotic attacks, like singularities that outmatch anything the black storm weapon fires. Biotic tornadoes that hurl even armored enemies around like stones. Long rang biotic blasts that toss aside everything in the way. And a biotic attack that sucks all enemies to a single point in the air via a tiny but strong singularity, slamming them helplessly together into a humiliating ball, before being thrown apart.

--Halfway between class. Vanguard's are between Soldiers and Adapts. Exactly like they are now in ME2, so there's not a lot to say. Vanguards cannot use heavy biotic attacks, but get two of the lower cool down biotic attacks, along with biotic charge. To balance this, they can use heavy weapons. On top of that, they have excellent use of three weapons of their choice + an additional weapon later on. 

(This sounds complex, but its really not. The key thing is that the three main classes change up the main game play completely when changed to the next main class. The half way classes are balances between the main classes. Imagine these classes on a triangle, with the main classes at the points, and the sub classes in between each respective point)

^this would make me very happy and would ensure ME trilogy is rememberd as a Journey of power.

Modifié par Last Vizard, 24 avril 2011 - 12:23 .

[The Spamming Troll]

isnt anyone else dumbfounded that theres better ideas of how to handle MEs difficulty setting in the last 2 pages of this thread, then bioware has in its game?

im an idiot, and i know enemy protections are far from being the best option.

[crimzontearz]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

isnt anyone else dumbfounded that theres better ideas of how to handle MEs difficulty setting in the last 2 pages of this thread, then bioware has in its game?

im an idiot, and i know enemy protections are far from being the best option.

trial and error bro....they could have anticipated it but they would never know for sure until they got our feedback

Tali was actually supposed to be romanceable in ME1...but Bioware said to themselves "oh come on who would want to romance her?".....I bet they learned from that mistake

[dreman9999]

crimzontearz wrote...

sorry...I call bs too

It does not explain how armor blocks tech attacks or biotics. If Stasis overlaps other barriers and forces people still then push should have the same effect and with some 1250 newtons of force no one would remain on their feet. Kinetic barriers cannot block a signal, they work on physical hits not electromagnetic waves (it says so in the codex as well, energy weapons bypass shields) for god's sake. By people's logic then geth should be un-hackable if they stuck to their "private channel" which is utter bull.

Also how the hell does the armor on a VARREN block biotic and tech attacks?








please....it's just utter bull

1. Let look a t thepwoersa and effect with shield. A push, pull and warp when it his shield drains them anddamages armour. Not only that but it stuns target for a while. Go ahead and throw a warp or a pull and you see it happen. The protect just stops the full effect. Push does not knock people down and pull does not float people when used on protected eneimies but it still stuns them and drain their sheild. So biotics have some effects just not oll of it on fully protected eneimies. Singularity works the same way. It just pull being done over again, you can see this because it pull eneimies into it's center. Pull it self is just changing gravity on the target and singularity is the same thing. They are both gravity attacksand their for the same.
And you do see barrier work many times over shields......What would cause it to not get more Mess effect field to coverit with more on the shield to slow down and hold the person? If your read thecodex, it itself statesthe stasis is a type of barrier. 
In all turths, your forgeting that biotic bowers still effect protection, it just that the protection stop all effect that go agients it field, and stasis like barrier just adds to that field  till it hold s the target.
Think of it like negative energy vs positive energy and postive energy add to more positive.
2.It depends on the geth......The more programs it has in it's system, the harder it is to hack the geth. Notice how long a geth stays hacked, and not how most geth are just a few programs in one body. All gave to do is scramble it with new info and it gose off for bit. The thing is the more gates open, the easier it is enter and hack.  Taking off the protect just open more way to hack ageth.
3. The varrin thing is bs.

[dreman9999]

Aumata wrote...

I don't really see how hard it is to not recognize the gimping that was done on the tech and biotic skills? ME1 tech skills was about crippling and damaging foes. You can stop a biotic and tech user. You can overload people weapons, stun a organic, hack a synthetic. I don't get that type of gameplay in ME2 on the engineer of all classes. Biotic skills, CC and damaging. Having people in a biotic field to take them down. ME2 I barely got that. ME2 engineer and adept are a cleverly disguise palate swap of the same class.

While people say biotics got nerfed. The fact is that tech skills was damn near obliterated for the protection system.

Let see now.....
ME1...Tech battle.....
Your start shooting, you over load their shield, sabitoge their weopons and powers.....Then you shot some more amd mix in tem powers. If a krogan charges you, you use nueral shock, and start shoting it. If more krogan chargeyou and your powers a coolingdown....your screwed.
ME2.....Tech battle.
You start with over load on the target, wait a bit.....then you freeze it, then kill it with one or two shots. You have some guy coming at you..... you throw the droid at it, they turn around, you quickly cool down, then overload their shiels....theystill attack the droid the droid explodeds...you pick them off......

Just how is the tech classes nerfed?

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Niddy' wrote...

Having
to wait in between using abilities was a stupid idea. They need to
remove this from the game. Really tired of everything in Mass Effect
being a hurry up and wait game.

ME2 system...
*Uses pull*
*2 secs later, uses push.*
No problems.

ME1 system..
*Uses lift*
*Uses push*
*Waits 10 -20 secs to use again*
.

Only at the beginning.Not with the right upgrades and specialisation later.

also, abilities in ME1 take about 6ish seconds to recharge. not to mention i have twice as many abilities in my arsenal as well in ME1. its not as simple as your trying to make it.

Not true at all. Can spam pull and push forever. If you max your cladd passive stats then your cooldowns with greatly be shortened.

[Evercrow]

100k wrote...

Which is why I say that the three main classes; Engineers, Adapts, and Soldiers, should each play EXTREMELY different from the next, right down to animations, weapons, and skills. 

......

Do want this. Though I have some issues with how you describe Sentinel and Infiltrator classes.

Honestly, I don't want Mass Effect going back to being RPG with shooter elements.Really, the shooting in the first game was just ridiculous. You just point in the general direction and hold left mouse button.That's why I only loved Infiltrator from combat classes. But I just loved playing every caster class - though it was too easy. Three cripplers or CC'ers in the team means no sweat beating the game. And like been said, every class could tank due to shields or barriers, so pure soldiers weren't needed at all.

I'd rather they change things up a bit with a ME2 system, I could satisfy my thirst for a good RPG with other games, like Dragon Age. But a solid shooter with good RPG-element?I haven't seen this in a loong time.I agree though, the caster classes vary only in finishing sequence(how they deal with stripped enemies).They didn't have to change weapons based on distance and vice versa.This could be fixed without reverting to ME1 powers.

The protection system could work if they will think through evolved versions. Or add an option to make power specifically target defence.For example, detonation of warp would deal huge damage only to barriers( third or half of praetorian barrier on insanity) but just knockdown unshielded enemies,without damaging health.
Hacking should bypass shields(not armor, imagine it as some kind of electromagnetic shielding  ),but have a longer cooldown.Maybe instead of area hacking make the bypassing hacking option in evolving.
For biotic-based casters add some undamaging,but bypassing(all) powers like stasis, with evolved version being able to shoot through(like ME1).With long cooldown, of course.And with boss immunity to it.
But please, don't remove necessity of aiming carefully with sniper rifles(or you won't have ammo.Wait until you find heavy weapon ammo cache) and using various guns depending on type of defence, or weapons will lose sense again - you just stick with modded assault rifle without scattering or rapid shooting pistol( I loved my hand machinegun in ME1,hehe)

Btw, guys, shouldn't this thread be in "classes, strategy and build" forum?

[crimzontearz]

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

sorry...I call bs too

It does not explain how armor blocks tech attacks or biotics. If Stasis overlaps other barriers and forces people still then push should have the same effect and with some 1250 newtons of force no one would remain on their feet. Kinetic barriers cannot block a signal, they work on physical hits not electromagnetic waves (it says so in the codex as well, energy weapons bypass shields) for god's sake. By people's logic then geth should be un-hackable if they stuck to their "private channel" which is utter bull.

Also how the hell does the armor on a VARREN block biotic and tech attacks?








please....it's just utter bull

1. Let look a t thepwoersa and effect with shield. A push, pull and warp when it his shield drains them anddamages armour. Not only that but it stuns target for a while. Go ahead and throw a warp or a pull and you see it happen. The protect just stops the full effect. Push does not knock people down and pull does not float people when used on protected eneimies but it still stuns them and drain their sheild. So biotics have some effects just not oll of it on fully protected eneimies. Singularity works the same way. It just pull being done over again, you can see this because it pull eneimies into it's center. Pull it self is just changing gravity on the target and singularity is the same thing. They are both gravity attacksand their for the same.
And you do see barrier work many times over shields......What would cause it to not get more Mess effect field to coverit with more on the shield to slow down and hold the person? If your read thecodex, it itself statesthe stasis is a type of barrier. 
In all turths, your forgeting that biotic bowers still effect protection, it just that the protection stop all effect that go agients it field, and stasis like barrier just adds to that field  till it hold s the target.
Think of it like negative energy vs positive energy and postive energy add to more positive.
2.It depends on the geth......The more programs it has in it's system, the harder it is to hack the geth. Notice how long a geth stays hacked, and not how most geth are just a few programs in one body. All gave to do is scramble it with new info and it gose off for bit. The thing is the more gates open, the easier it is enter and hack.  Taking off the protect just open more way to hack ageth.
3. The varrin thing is bs.

dude....a kinetic barrier stopes PHYSICAL attacks as it stops KINETIC energy. A tech attack is an electromagnetic wave (excluding incineration) ergo it should not be affected at all (just like as per lore kinetic barriers do not protect against radiation)

If shields and biotic barriers protected from "gravity attacks" then a shielded soldier would negate the effects of artificial gravity on a station....not fun dude, at all. Also adding power to a barrier does not make the barrier stop moving with the kinetic field generator that creates it so your theory on stasis does not hold water

yes the Varren thing ALWAYS pissed me off

[tonnactus]

Aumata wrote...
 Drop the protection system,  give immunites to some bosses and elites and focus on the enemies on higher levels using the same skills as what we have.

No immunities.Resistences. Is there anyone who didnt enjoy it to lift a geth colossus with master lift,even for a rather short duration? Biotics and tech by the way are not only nerfed with the protection system,but also with their range.
Singularity now have only a radius of 3 meters at best where a combat power like flashbang has far more.This is a bad joke.In the first game,it has a radius of 8 meters...
The same is true for overload.Master overload had a 10 meter range.Now it has just 3 meters range with "area" overload.

Modifié par tonnactus, 24 avril 2011 - 02:13 .

[tonnactus]

dreman9999 wrote...

ME1...Tech battle.....
Your start shooting, you over load their shield, sabitoge their weopons and powers.....Then you shot some more amd mix in tem powers. If a krogan charges you, you use nueral shock, and start shoting it. If more krogan chargeyou and your powers a coolingdown....your screwed.

The only crap they had to remove was immunity and made neural shock an area power.

Modifié par tonnactus, 24 avril 2011 - 02:12 .

[Last Vizard]

tonnactus wrote...

Aumata wrote...
 Drop the protection system,  give immunites to some bosses and elites and focus on the enemies on higher levels using the same skills as what we have.

No immunities.Resistences. Is there anyone who didnt enjoy it to lift a geth colossus with master lift,even for a rather short duration? Biotics and tech by the way are not only nerfed with the protection system,but also with their range.
Singularity now have only a radius of 3 meters at best where a combat power like flashbang has far more.This is a bad joke.In the first game,it has a radius of 8 meters...
The same is true for overload.Master overload had a 10 meter range.Now it has just 3 meters range with "area" overload.

^this

[mcsupersport]

tonnactus wrote...

Aumata wrote...
 Drop the protection system,  give immunites to some bosses and elites and focus on the enemies on higher levels using the same skills as what we have.

No immunities.Resistences. Is there anyone who didnt enjoy it to lift a geth colossus with master lift,even for a rather short duration? Biotics and tech by the way are not only nerfed with the protection system,but also with their range.
Singularity now have only a radius of 3 meters at best where a combat power like flashbang has far more.This is a bad joke.In the first game,it has a radius of 8 meters...
The same is true for overload.Master overload had a 10 meter range.Now it has just 3 meters range with "area" overload.

Actually it was a 10m radius without upgrades, and closer to 15-20m range with upgrades and the like.  This meant you could effect something in a 30-40 meter area, or around 90-120 feet diameter area, the size of a house otherwise.  Being able to disable and increase damage in this kind of area is one reason they had to change it, you could simply take out too many enemies making them unless for anything other than absorbing bullets.

Singularity was a bit small, especailly since it was around 9 feet and it couldn't pick up things on the other side of a box that was't more than 3 feet deep.  I think they messed up the numbers and gameplay size, either as a balance or just bad game design. 

With modern technology we are currently able to track and destroy incoming artilery and explosive rounds such as rpgs on the battlefield with new tank point defense systems.  There is no reason to believe that ME2 shielding systems can't monitor for incoming mass effect fields and modify the shields to nulifiy most of the effects but costing shield integrity. 

As it stands right now, Insanity isn't that hard to beat, and here people are asking for stronger powers doing more damage thus making it even easier.  So what would you do to make the enemies stronger or better to make the game NOT a complete cakewalk, if you changed to powers as you have stated??

[dreman9999]

crimzontearz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

sorry...I call bs too

It does not explain how armor blocks tech attacks or biotics. If Stasis overlaps other barriers and forces people still then push should have the same effect and with some 1250 newtons of force no one would remain on their feet. Kinetic barriers cannot block a signal, they work on physical hits not electromagnetic waves (it says so in the codex as well, energy weapons bypass shields) for god's sake. By people's logic then geth should be un-hackable if they stuck to their "private channel" which is utter bull.

Also how the hell does the armor on a VARREN block biotic and tech attacks?








please....it's just utter bull

1. Let look a t thepwoersa and effect with shield. A push, pull and warp when it his shield drains them anddamages armour. Not only that but it stuns target for a while. Go ahead and throw a warp or a pull and you see it happen. The protect just stops the full effect. Push does not knock people down and pull does not float people when used on protected eneimies but it still stuns them and drain their sheild. So biotics have some effects just not oll of it on fully protected eneimies. Singularity works the same way. It just pull being done over again, you can see this because it pull eneimies into it's center. Pull it self is just changing gravity on the target and singularity is the same thing. They are both gravity attacksand their for the same.
And you do see barrier work many times over shields......What would cause it to not get more Mess effect field to coverit with more on the shield to slow down and hold the person? If your read thecodex, it itself statesthe stasis is a type of barrier. 
In all turths, your forgeting that biotic bowers still effect protection, it just that the protection stop all effect that go agients it field, and stasis like barrier just adds to that field  till it hold s the target.
Think of it like negative energy vs positive energy and postive energy add to more positive.
2.It depends on the geth......The more programs it has in it's system, the harder it is to hack the geth. Notice how long a geth stays hacked, and not how most geth are just a few programs in one body. All gave to do is scramble it with new info and it gose off for bit. The thing is the more gates open, the easier it is enter and hack.  Taking off the protect just open more way to hack ageth.
3. The varrin thing is bs.

dude....a kinetic barrier stopes PHYSICAL attacks as it stops KINETIC energy. A tech attack is an electromagnetic wave (excluding incineration) ergo it should not be affected at all (just like as per lore kinetic barriers do not protect against radiation)

If shields and biotic barriers protected from "gravity attacks" then a shielded soldier would negate the effects of artificial gravity on a station....not fun dude, at all. Also adding power to a barrier does not make the barrier stop moving with the kinetic field generator that creates it so your theory on stasis does not hold water

yes the Varren thing ALWAYS pissed me off

1. Shield negate consetrated gravity attacks and even at that pull stagger the target still meaning they fell the impact...Thr Kinetic barrier dispells the added effect. Also, the kinetic barrier is not a  high consentarated mass effect generator which is need to push off from other fields. So it too small of a mass effect field topush off from the stations gravity. What adepts throw at  targets are high consetations of Mass Effect  fields.
2.
http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Bastion
The bastion class allown proves my point. Thing of mass effect field like streams of water. Clash ageints each other, the water disperse. Push together, then add to geter a stonger steam. If water is clashing, which ever side has the most water and last longer win and continue a stream. With the case of one stream adding to anothe, it make the current of the water stonger and harder to swim in, too much consentated water add together washes everything away. Some concept of Mass effect field, electric fields and light fields.

[dreman9999]

tonnactus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ME1...Tech battle.....
Your start shooting, you over load their shield, sabitoge their weopons and powers.....Then you shot some more amd mix in tem powers. If a krogan charges you, you use nueral shock, and start shoting it. If more krogan chargeyou and your powers a coolingdown....your screwed.

The only crap they had to remove was immunity and made neural shock an area power.

And added droid, and made overload work as a sabatage as well, and add power that held eneimeisand did direct damage to them, and cut the cooldown.

[dreman9999]

Last Vizard wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Aumata wrote...
 Drop the protection system,  give immunites to some bosses and elites and focus on the enemies on higher levels using the same skills as what we have.

No immunities.Resistences. Is there anyone who didnt enjoy it to lift a geth colossus with master lift,even for a rather short duration? Biotics and tech by the way are not only nerfed with the protection system,but also with their range.
Singularity now have only a radius of 3 meters at best where a combat power like flashbang has far more.This is a bad joke.In the first game,it has a radius of 8 meters...
The same is true for overload.Master overload had a 10 meter range.Now it has just 3 meters range with "area" overload.

^this

No, it already in ME2. What Aumata stated is just what  normal and veteran plays like already. You want to use your powers on everyonebut the bosses, put down the difficulty.
An singularity has consetrated damage and explodes..... And I said this over and over again in this topic, in ME1 these powers did not kill by them selves, you had to shoot the eneimes to death to kill them. And even if you can push them off a cliff to their death, they were not that many cliffs to do that with in the game, espeical compared to ME2. Even if the devs could just increse defecnce of the these eneimien when lifted, it would just make insanity and hardcare ME1 the norm for ME2 and you would just make it longer to kill them.  The off balnce still will be there.
And how do you nerf a class that specialy is taking defence off? In ME1engineer primary focus was to take off defense, and in ME2 they give you multiple strong ways to do that. In ME1, if a krogan charged you as an engineer, your dead if you don't have a nueral shock ready. In ME2, you can stop a krogan easily with droid, espeically with it's short cooldown. And on top of thing, your whining about hacking not working throw protection, when the power is exclusive to a skill tree that about taking down defeces....in a game with little robots to hack? And of top of thing you for get the hacked Geth in ME1 attacked you, too? No one remebers  hacking a geth destroyer only to find it beating you to death anyway? And on top of all things Engineers do direct damage now...... How on earth in engineer nerf when you can now turn the battlefield to total chaos on a whim?

[Dave666]

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

sorry...I call bs too

It does not explain how armor blocks tech attacks or biotics. If Stasis overlaps other barriers and forces people still then push should have the same effect and with some 1250 newtons of force no one would remain on their feet. Kinetic barriers cannot block a signal, they work on physical hits not electromagnetic waves (it says so in the codex as well, energy weapons bypass shields) for god's sake. By people's logic then geth should be un-hackable if they stuck to their "private channel" which is utter bull.

Also how the hell does the armor on a VARREN block biotic and tech attacks?








please....it's just utter bull

1. Let look a t thepwoersa and effect with shield. A push, pull and warp when it his shield drains them anddamages armour. Not only that but it stuns target for a while. Go ahead and throw a warp or a pull and you see it happen. The protect just stops the full effect. Push does not knock people down and pull does not float people when used on protected eneimies but it still stuns them and drain their sheild. So biotics have some effects just not oll of it on fully protected eneimies. Singularity works the same way. It just pull being done over again, you can see this because it pull eneimies into it's center. Pull it self is just changing gravity on the target and singularity is the same thing. They are both gravity attacksand their for the same.
And you do see barrier work many times over shields......What would cause it to not get more Mess effect field to coverit with more on the shield to slow down and hold the person? If your read thecodex, it itself statesthe stasis is a type of barrier. 
In all turths, your forgeting that biotic bowers still effect protection, it just that the protection stop all effect that go agients it field, and stasis like barrier just adds to that field  till it hold s the target.
Think of it like negative energy vs positive energy and postive energy add to more positive.
2.It depends on the geth......The more programs it has in it's system, the harder it is to hack the geth. Notice how long a geth stays hacked, and not how most geth are just a few programs in one body. All gave to do is scramble it with new info and it gose off for bit. The thing is the more gates open, the easier it is enter and hack.  Taking off the protect just open more way to hack ageth.
3. The varrin thing is bs.

dude....a kinetic barrier stopes PHYSICAL attacks as it stops KINETIC energy. A tech attack is an electromagnetic wave (excluding incineration) ergo it should not be affected at all (just like as per lore kinetic barriers do not protect against radiation)

If shields and biotic barriers protected from "gravity attacks" then a shielded soldier would negate the effects of artificial gravity on a station....not fun dude, at all. Also adding power to a barrier does not make the barrier stop moving with the kinetic field generator that creates it so your theory on stasis does not hold water

yes the Varren thing ALWAYS pissed me off

1. Shield negate consetrated gravity attacks and even at that pull stagger the target still meaning they fell the impact...Thr Kinetic barrier dispells the added effect. Also, the kinetic barrier is not a  high consentarated mass effect generator which is need to push off from other fields. So it too small of a mass effect field topush off from the stations gravity. What adepts throw at  targets are high consetations of Mass Effect  fields.

Kinetic Barriers ("Shields")

Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.

The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

Perhaps you can point out the part where it says that Shields negate gravity, I seem to be missing it...

dreman9999 wrote...
2.
http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Bastion
The bastion class allown proves my point. Thing of mass effect field like streams of water. Clash ageints each other, the water disperse. Push together, then add to geter a stonger steam. If water is clashing, which ever side has the most water and last longer win and continue a stream. With the case of one stream adding to anothe, it make the current of the water stonger and harder to swim in, too much consentated water add together washes everything away. Some concept of Mass effect field, electric fields and light fields.

Erm...no...it really doesn't prove your point at all.

If you're going to try to quote lore at us to support your arguments, then you might want to try understanding that lore first, just a suggestion.

Modifié par Dave666, 24 avril 2011 - 05:42 .

[tonnactus]

mcsupersport wrote...

As it stands right now, Insanity isn't that hard to beat, and here people are asking for stronger powers doing more damage thus making it even easier.  So what would you do to make the enemies stronger or better to make the game NOT a complete cakewalk, if you changed to powers as you have stated??

I dont want more damage,but more crowd control.In fact,biotics barely make any damage in the first game.
What i want is easy to explain: Back to amount of crowd control the first game has,but as a balance,enemies that could do the same to the player.At least "biotics" should be more then warp bots(more like tela vasir) and engineers more then incinerate spammers.Engineers were also the class that could lock to biotics in the first game with damping...
The enemy groups just didnt have enough of them.
The game now is completely boring because there is zero variety regarding what enemies could do and lack any interesting bossfights(excluding download content/harbinger stays the same the whole game unlike saren who get some tech abilities in the end)

[tonnactus]

dreman9999 wrote...

No, it already in ME2. What Aumata stated is just what  normal and veteran plays like already. You want to use your powers on everyonebut the bosses, put down the difficulty.

No,they didnt play like this.Without stasis(was introduced for a reason),neither ymirs or geth primes are affected by most biotic powers on any difficulty with their defenses on.The radius of powers stays the same.Spamming singularity,warp and occasionally lift is boring.Thats the point,not the difficulty,that is easy even on nightmare anyway.

And how do you nerf a class that specialy is taking defence off? In
ME1engineer primary focus was to take off defense,

Nonsense. Only overload was a defense stripping power.Sabotage and damping were crowd control,neural shock also but at the same time decrease the cooldown on first aid...
The engineer could be a supporter class in the first game with the medic specialisation.All gone.

In ME1, if a krogan charged you as
an engineer, your dead if you don't have a nueral shock ready.

Damping also stops them.And biotics of other teammates.BY the way,engineer deal direct damage in the first game.Only the immunity skill make this damage rather pity.(immunity is all they had to cut to make the engineer more damaging)

Modifié par tonnactus, 24 avril 2011 - 06:16 .

[crimzontearz]

thanks Dave.....I wonder why people keep arguing that "it was that way all along" when anyone who has the first game and read the codex knows otherwise......

and they even try to explain it to you as if they wrote it....WTH!

[Clonedzero]

basically this is a bunch of stubborn people who want overpowered biotics back from ME1?

[Dave666]

Clonedzero wrote...

basically this is a bunch of stubborn people who want overpowered biotics back from ME1?

Nope, its a bunch of stubborn people who would like to be able to crowd control with the Adept again.  is it really too much to ask for abilities that affect enemies through defences?  We're not asking to be able to warp bomb enemies with full protections, just have abilities like Heavy Throw actually work, why not have it throw the enemy on its arse?  It then has to get back up again and it stopped shooting at you.  You have effectively controlled that enemy.  Or how about a larger radius for Area Pull?  You'd still have to strip protections, but you could get more than two or three enemies at a time.

*Edit* One other point that I find somewhat odd.  Many people try to claim that Biotics were overpowered in ME:1, but thats not quite accurate, at higher levels every class was overpowered.  Soldiers and Infiltrators had Immunity which made them all but invulnerable, Sentinel, Infiltrator and Engineer had Tech abilities like Damping and Sabotage which basically rendered enemies completely helpless. They couldn't shoot at you OR use abilities.

Edited for derpery.  For some silly reason I typed Overload instead of Sabotage.

Modifié par Dave666, 24 avril 2011 - 10:07 .