256 réponses à ce sujet

[Clonedzero]

Dave666 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

basically this is a bunch of stubborn people who want overpowered biotics back from ME1?

Nope, its a bunch of stubborn people who would like to be able to crowd control with the Adept again.  is it really too much to ask for abilities that affect enemies through defences?  We're not asking to be able to warp bomb enemies with full protections, just have abilities like Heavy Throw actually work, why not have it throw the enemy on its arse?  It then has to get back up again and it stopped shooting at you.  You have effectively controlled that enemy.  Or how about a larger radius for Area Pull?  You'd still have to strip protections, but you could get more than two or three enemies at a time.

you know what i do? i crowd control the weak guys while i kill / strip the defenses of the tough guys. works like a charm.

[Dave666]

Clonedzero wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

basically this is a bunch of stubborn people who want overpowered biotics back from ME1?

Nope, its a bunch of stubborn people who would like to be able to crowd control with the Adept again.  is it really too much to ask for abilities that affect enemies through defences?  We're not asking to be able to warp bomb enemies with full protections, just have abilities like Heavy Throw actually work, why not have it throw the enemy on its arse?  It then has to get back up again and it stopped shooting at you.  You have effectively controlled that enemy.  Or how about a larger radius for Area Pull?  You'd still have to strip protections, but you could get more than two or three enemies at a time.

you know what i do? i crowd control the weak guys while i kill / strip the defenses of the tough guys. works like a charm.

How do you crowd control those weak guys?  Singularity?  That works on quite a small group, usually no more than three or four max and with that many in a Singularity it runs out in just a few seconds.  What we're asking for is a compromise between ME:1 and ME:2, perhaps increase the number of enemies that can be caught in Singularity before it expires, nothing drastic.

[Lapis Lazuli]

I agree with the OP that only a multiplayer needs class balancing. But I don't even think a multiplayer needs power balancing. I hear in TOR they are making bounty hunters and smugglers power balance with force users to discourage people from overloading the force user ranks (like what happened in Star Wars Galaxies). I think all you need to do is balance the level ups. It's a bit more complex, but just make more powerful classes level up slower instead of having all classes equal. Or even since the darkside is 'quicker...more seductive', maybe darksiders realistically should level faster? The quick and easy path, right?

[tonnactus]

Dave666 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

basically this is a bunch of stubborn people who want overpowered biotics back from ME1?

Nope, its a bunch of stubborn people who would like to be able to crowd control with the Adept again.  is it really too much to ask for abilities that affect enemies through defences?  We're not asking to be able to warp bomb enemies with full protections, just have abilities like Heavy Throw actually work, why not have it throw the enemy on its arse?  It then has to get back up again and it stopped shooting at you.  You have effectively controlled that enemy.  Or how about a larger radius for Area Pull?  You'd still have to strip protections, but you could get more than two or three enemies at a time.

*Edit* One other point that I find somewhat odd.  Many people try to claim that Biotics were overpowered in ME:1, but thats not quite accurate, at higher levels every class was overpowered  .

Some people call that overpowered.I call it progress in a rpg...
I not really get the feeling that my character get much stronger in Mass Effect 2 at the end.And the tiny improvements coming half from upgrades and better weapons,not developed skills.This is just wrong.

[Last Vizard]

tonnactus wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

basically this is a bunch of stubborn people who want overpowered biotics back from ME1?

Nope, its a bunch of stubborn people who would like to be able to crowd control with the Adept again.  is it really too much to ask for abilities that affect enemies through defences?  We're not asking to be able to warp bomb enemies with full protections, just have abilities like Heavy Throw actually work, why not have it throw the enemy on its arse?  It then has to get back up again and it stopped shooting at you.  You have effectively controlled that enemy.  Or how about a larger radius for Area Pull?  You'd still have to strip protections, but you could get more than two or three enemies at a time.

*Edit* One other point that I find somewhat odd.  Many people try to claim that Biotics were overpowered in ME:1, but thats not quite accurate, at higher levels every class was overpowered  .

Some people call that overpowered.I call it progress in a rpg...
I not really get the feeling that my character get much stronger in Mass Effect 2 at the end.And the tiny improvements coming half from upgrades and better weapons,not developed skills.This is just wrong.

^This is so true, no DEV in their right mind makes an RPG sequel where the main character is weaker than when they started.  Shep is the sick man of the RPG world.....

[Aumata]

Last Vizard wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

basically this is a bunch of stubborn people who want overpowered biotics back from ME1?

Nope, its a bunch of stubborn people who would like to be able to crowd control with the Adept again.  is it really too much to ask for abilities that affect enemies through defences?  We're not asking to be able to warp bomb enemies with full protections, just have abilities like Heavy Throw actually work, why not have it throw the enemy on its arse?  It then has to get back up again and it stopped shooting at you.  You have effectively controlled that enemy.  Or how about a larger radius for Area Pull?  You'd still have to strip protections, but you could get more than two or three enemies at a time.

*Edit* One other point that I find somewhat odd.  Many people try to claim that Biotics were overpowered in ME:1, but thats not quite accurate, at higher levels every class was overpowered  .

Some people call that overpowered.I call it progress in a rpg...
I not really get the feeling that my character get much stronger in Mass Effect 2 at the end.And the tiny improvements coming half from upgrades and better weapons,not developed skills.This is just wrong.

^This is so true, no DEV in their right mind makes an RPG sequel where the main character is weaker than when they started.  Shep is the sick man of the RPG world.....

That ain't entierly true.  Shepard makes progress up to a point, then stays there. I think level 10 is where shepard reaches the peak of their class.  They just stay the same afterward.

[DPSSOC]

^I think Vizard was referring to how Shep is weaker at the beginning of ME2 than he was at the end of ME1.  Or possibly the beginning of ME1 I'm not sure.

Also,

mushoops86anjyl wrote...
Make enemies more powerful and bring them up to Shep's level? Make Shep less powerful and bring him down to the enemies level? 0 + 1 = X. 2 - 1 = X. Either path nets the same gameplay Bioware is aiming for. This is just a perception issue.

No it's not a perception issue.  If Bioware vamped up the enemies but kept Shep as is from the end of ME1 and people claimed Shep was nerfed that would be a perception issue.  People would be perceiving Shepard as being weaker but they actually aren't and you could point to the base numbers and say, "See the numbers are unchanged.  You're still pumping out the same base damage, it's just the enemies have gotten tougher."

Bringing the enemies closer to Shep's level makes Shep relatively weaker while knocking Shep down makes him actually weaker.  The end result may be the same (enemies are more difficult to defeat) but the difference between the two is far more than perception.

[dreman9999]

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

sorry...I call bs too

It does not explain how armor blocks tech attacks or biotics. If Stasis overlaps other barriers and forces people still then push should have the same effect and with some 1250 newtons of force no one would remain on their feet. Kinetic barriers cannot block a signal, they work on physical hits not electromagnetic waves (it says so in the codex as well, energy weapons bypass shields) for god's sake. By people's logic then geth should be un-hackable if they stuck to their "private channel" which is utter bull.

Also how the hell does the armor on a VARREN block biotic and tech attacks?








please....it's just utter bull

1. Let look a t thepwoersa and effect with shield. A push, pull and warp when it his shield drains them anddamages armour. Not only that but it stuns target for a while. Go ahead and throw a warp or a pull and you see it happen. The protect just stops the full effect. Push does not knock people down and pull does not float people when used on protected eneimies but it still stuns them and drain their sheild. So biotics have some effects just not oll of it on fully protected eneimies. Singularity works the same way. It just pull being done over again, you can see this because it pull eneimies into it's center. Pull it self is just changing gravity on the target and singularity is the same thing. They are both gravity attacksand their for the same.
And you do see barrier work many times over shields......What would cause it to not get more Mess effect field to coverit with more on the shield to slow down and hold the person? If your read thecodex, it itself statesthe stasis is a type of barrier. 
In all turths, your forgeting that biotic bowers still effect protection, it just that the protection stop all effect that go agients it field, and stasis like barrier just adds to that field  till it hold s the target.
Think of it like negative energy vs positive energy and postive energy add to more positive.
2.It depends on the geth......The more programs it has in it's system, the harder it is to hack the geth. Notice how long a geth stays hacked, and not how most geth are just a few programs in one body. All gave to do is scramble it with new info and it gose off for bit. The thing is the more gates open, the easier it is enter and hack.  Taking off the protect just open more way to hack ageth.
3. The varrin thing is bs.

dude....a kinetic barrier stopes PHYSICAL attacks as it stops KINETIC energy. A tech attack is an electromagnetic wave (excluding incineration) ergo it should not be affected at all (just like as per lore kinetic barriers do not protect against radiation)

If shields and biotic barriers protected from "gravity attacks" then a shielded soldier would negate the effects of artificial gravity on a station....not fun dude, at all. Also adding power to a barrier does not make the barrier stop moving with the kinetic field generator that creates it so your theory on stasis does not hold water

yes the Varren thing ALWAYS pissed me off

1. Shield negate consetrated gravity attacks and even at that pull stagger the target still meaning they fell the impact...Thr Kinetic barrier dispells the added effect. Also, the kinetic barrier is not a  high consentarated mass effect generator which is need to push off from other fields. So it too small of a mass effect field topush off from the stations gravity. What adepts throw at  targets are high consetations of Mass Effect  fields.

Kinetic Barriers ("Shields")

Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.

The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

Perhaps you can point out the part where it says that Shields negate gravity, I seem to be missing it...

dreman9999 wrote...
2.
http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Bastion
The bastion class allown proves my point. Thing of mass effect field like streams of water. Clash ageints each other, the water disperse. Push together, then add to geter a stonger steam. If water is clashing, which ever side has the most water and last longer win and continue a stream. With the case of one stream adding to anothe, it make the current of the water stonger and harder to swim in, too much consentated water add together washes everything away. Some concept of Mass effect field, electric fields and light fields.

Erm...no...it really doesn't prove your point at all.

If you're going to try to quote lore at us to support your arguments, then you might want to try understanding that lore first, just a suggestion.

If your really want to get it to this you may want to know the nature of Mass effect fields work in the game.
http://masseffect.wi...ss_Effect_Field


Mass effect fields are created through the use of element zero. Element zero can increase or decrease the mass content of space-time when subjected to an electrical current via dark energy. With a positive current, mass is increased. With a negative current, mass is decreased. The stronger the current, the greater the magnitude of the dark energy mass effect.
In space, low-mass fields allow FTL travel and inexpensive surface-to-orbit transit. High-mass fields create artificial gravity and push space debris away from starships. In manufacturing, low-mass fields permit the creation of evenly-blended alloys, while high mass compaction creates dense, sturdy construction materials.
The military makes extensive use of mobility enhancing technologies, with mass effect-utilizing fighting vehicles being standard front-line issue in most military forces. The Mako's small element zero core can reduce the vehicle's mass enough to allow a safe drop from the Normandy. Mass effect fields are also essential in the creation of shields to protect against enemy fire on the ground, and protect starships in planetary orbit or during space battles.
Many biotics can also use mass effect fields which are biologically generated and controlled. This requires intensive training, and cybernetic implants, but can produce impressive offensive or defensive effects. Some biotics' talents are not strong enough to be offensively viable, but all biotics are sensitive to the presence of mass effect fields.
However, the use of mass effect fields creates static electrical charge. In starship drive cores, this charge must be grounded at regular intervals, either by touching a planet surface or interacting with a planet's geomagnetic field, to prevent the electricity discharging into the hull and causing catastrophic damage. For biotics, this manifests as an occasional static shock when they touch metal or other people.




1.In truth, increasing the level of the mass effect  field in barriers can draw off gavity effect base on nature allown based on low-mass fields consepts and high mass effect field consepts. So basicly, just have shield that generate a stonger mass effect field.
2. The bastion class gets incresses in shield making.

[Aumata]

DPSSOC wrote...

^I think Vizard was referring to how Shep is weaker at the beginning of ME2 than he was at the end of ME1.  Or possibly the beginning of ME1 I'm not sure.

It is a joke.  ME1 I reach peak around lvl 20 once I get the specialzation.  I usually tend not to put points in skills though.  I play trying to reach the optimal skills at the earliest possible.  Once I find my core skills it is really just a matter of imrpoving them, or if I already did that, getting other skills set.  I do that all the time actually.

Also Dreman9999 there is already lore stating about combating biotics in the armor department.  What is it call hardening?  It is applied to armor.  Design to resits both tech and Biotics.  If they have a advance form of those, they would be resiting biotitcs and tech all the time.  Also your info talks about kinetic barriers.  Design to stop high-speed projectiles.  Doesn't stop biotics, though hardening resist biotics.  But again, that is something in the armor not relying on shields or any other protections.

There is no stated lore why biotics and tech doesn't work on protection system, or even worse why they only work when there is nothing but health, since it is connected by the armor and no other protection.  Dude it is a gameplay mechanic.  That literally spits in the face of established lore.

Modifié par Aumata, 25 avril 2011 - 05:12 .

[100k]

Clonedzero wrote...

basically this is a bunch of stubborn people who want overpowered biotics back from ME1?

Right. Because the CAIN, Blackstorm, and Arc Projector weren't overpowered.

/sarcasm.

Hell, the fact that Shepard was REQUIRED to always carry a heavy weapon really pissed me off.

Adapts shouldn't need guns. They have biotics to match, counter, and rival every situation a gun can offer.

Engineers shouldn't need guns. They have the hacking and tech skills to...I dunno, what's that thing engineers do? Oh yeah, INVENT powerful tools that rival the best of firearms.

Soldiers do need guns. Plain and simple.

For me, the ideal Adept would be the equivalent of Samara's cutscene powers. Powerful, precise, and very deliberate. More control than Jack. More punch than Kaiden. Extremely powerful when needed.

For me, the ideal Engineer would be like Tony Stark. They would build, customize, and engineer wear high tech suits, advanced built in weapons, drones, and battlefield assessment tools.

For me, the ideal Solider is already in ME. Guns, weapon mods, ammo packs, and healing. Adrenaline Rush kicks ass, and fits the character.

However, with it being announced that ME3 will have weapon mods, I highly doubt that any of these "ideals" will be recognized. I completely understand that, as a studio, Bioware has to appeal to the largest audience: the shooter fans. So, in ME2 (and now 3) they put more emphasis on picking up a gun, and killing enemies. I also get that, with little more than 2 years to develop, great ideas like mine have to get nerfed so that they can focus on developing it on time. If Bioware had another 12 months, maybe they could make incredibly diverse classes. But ultimately EA is funding them, and they've got an annual quota to reach.

[Nimander]

I'm totally fine with Adept powers being upgraded to fit the lore...

... as long as they gain the weaknesses of lore.

Have fun using a Biotic power then having a long cooldown (probably 2+ minutes) 'cause it's damn tiring.

That's why they did it. Because either you use a lot of little abilities or one big ability, and the first is more interesting most of the time.

Usually this gets down to 'we want adepts to be broken' though, so.

(And for the record, I'm a major Adept fan. It and Vanguard are my favorites.)

One thing I will admit however, is the higher difficulties need something else to make them hard rather than simply layering defenses.

[Last Vizard]

Nimander wrote...

I'm totally fine with Adept powers being upgraded to fit the lore...

... as long as they gain the weaknesses of lore.

Have fun using a Biotic power then having a long cooldown (probably 2+ minutes) 'cause it's damn tiring.

That's why they did it. Because either you use a lot of little abilities or one big ability, and the first is more interesting most of the time.

Usually this gets down to 'we want adepts to be broken' though, so.

(And for the record, I'm a major Adept fan. It and Vanguard are my favorites.)

One thing I will admit however, is the higher difficulties need something else to make them hard rather than simply layering defenses.

Talk of difficulty comes up alot and it doesn't matter, yes the game needs to have many difficulties and i play each of them starting with normal.... Insane is about patience and thats it, what i'm concerned with is how much each class changed and the lack of lore to back it up.  what happened to the RPG elements in ME 1 that made it som much better than ME 2?

When i play Adept i don't want to use a gun, yes i can manage to finish most levels without a gun but that is through my own wishes to role play as an Adept... isn't that what Mass effect is all about, Role Playing Game?  i don't want to play as a Soldier with mass effect generating gloves because Shep lost his abilities when he died at the start of ME 2.

Lack of skill or a wish to play an easy game is not the reason i want classes to return to the way ME 1 did things or at least something very very very close, its because ME 2 goes totally against the established lore of ME 1.  Okay so in the two years Shep was dead they came up with methods to stop Adept abilites even though they had failed to do that in the long history of Adepts in ME universe.... past that why are all the abilities weaker or non-existent? so my ME 1 type singularity or mass lift wont be as effective unless their (totally new) shields/armor are down but they shoulld still stumble/float a little while they are up unless they are a boss or elite type. (stumble/float within the ME 1 radiuses)

Truth is that ME 2 combat makes for a bad RPG experiance and puts Adept Shep in the group of RPG losers... what should i expect in ME 3, Null void powers? no even that would be too cool for the sick man of RPGs.

I want all classes to be all they can be... that doesn't mean TPS.

Modifié par Last Vizard, 25 avril 2011 - 06:32 .

[crimzontearz]

Dreaman, wth are you on about?




Look I understand you may have some form of dislexia (I have a dear friend of mine with your same typing pattern) but it's right there black on white.....Shields do not protect from radiations or energy weapons. Thus shields cannot frotect from hacking




A Mass Effect field used to "swat" a bullet away is not used to contrast gravity at all, if it were then no enemy would deie off a fall if they were shielded




also increasing output in a barrier does not immediately make it staticsince if the barriergenerator moves then the barrier itself moves with it, Bastions must be applying their stasis directly on a target just like Benezia did








you can argue all you want and try to make up explanations but obviously the lore and mechanics are incontrast here

Modifié par crimzontearz, 25 avril 2011 - 11:42 .

[Aumata]

crimzontearz wrote...

Dreaman, wth are you on about?





Look I understand you may have some form of dislexia (I have a dear friend of mine with your same typing pattern) but it's right there black on white.....Shields do not protect from radiations or energy weapons. Thus shields cannot frotect from hacking





A Mass Effect field used to "swat" a bullet away is not used to contrast gravity at all, if it were then no enemy would deie off a fall if they were shielded





also increasing output in a barrier does not immediately make it staticsince if the barriergenerator moves then the barrier itself moves with it, Bastions must be applying their stasis directly on a target just like Benezia did











you can argue all you want and try to make up explanations but obviously the lore and mechanics are incontrast here

The only lore that has people resisting biotics and techs is the medical exoskeleton, and the hardening upgrade for armor.  But if that is the case it should be active even with out kinetic barriers or armor. Their is no lore for why the protection system is in place.  Just gameplay mechanic, that was a easy way out to attempt to balance the game.

I want tech skills to be back.  Bioware might have a few good ideas on the branching out and upgrades of skills.  But the protection system screwed over tech more so than any other skill sets.

[Evercrow]

well, they are introducing melee finishers or whatnot for each class.So they'll probably will restore the incapacitating tech to allow for closing in on attack - not all classes have charge or cloak.

Have faith people. Maybe it will not be the RPG you so passionately want, but they will certainly improve and change what they had already. Not another ME1 experience(in gameplay) and better then ME2 - sounds pretty good to me.

[nelly21]

I loved the Adept in ME 2.

That soldier's shields are down! Pull then light him up.

That soldier's shields are down and he's by a precipice! Throw him off.

Hey that group has no shields! Singularity and light them up or warp bomb.

The adept was not nerfed in ME 2. It was balanced so you couldn't just own anything in sight for the first few seconds of the fight and then hide behind your bulkier team mates while you were on cool down.

I a pretty good gamer. I'm not incredible. But I'm pretty good. I would say average. I had no problems with my Adept on Insanity.

Modifié par nelly21, 25 avril 2011 - 06:36 .

[tonnactus]

Nimander wrote...


Have fun using a Biotic power then having a long cooldown (probably 2+ minutes) 'cause it's damn tiring.
.

That was only true for "ordinary" human biotics like hendel. But not for gillian,not for asari commandos and certainly not for an adept shepardt.

Modifié par tonnactus, 25 avril 2011 - 06:47 .

[dreman9999]

Aumata wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

^I think Vizard was referring to how Shep is weaker at the beginning of ME2 than he was at the end of ME1.  Or possibly the beginning of ME1 I'm not sure.

It is a joke.  ME1 I reach peak around lvl 20 once I get the specialzation.  I usually tend not to put points in skills though.  I play trying to reach the optimal skills at the earliest possible.  Once I find my core skills it is really just a matter of imrpoving them, or if I already did that, getting other skills set.  I do that all the time actually.

Also Dreman9999 there is already lore stating about combating biotics in the armor department.  What is it call hardening?  It is applied to armor.  Design to resits both tech and Biotics.  If they have a advance form of those, they would be resiting biotitcs and tech all the time.  Also your info talks about kinetic barriers.  Design to stop high-speed projectiles.  Doesn't stop biotics, though hardening resist biotics.  But again, that is something in the armor not relying on shields or any other protections.

There is no stated lore why biotics and tech doesn't work on protection system, or even worse why they only work when there is nothing but health, since it is connected by the armor and no other protection.  Dude it is a gameplay mechanic.  That literally spits in the face of established lore.

1. I already talked about hardening. It clear that it a stander feature in all armours. Andno it would not stop it all the time.
2.As state Mess effect field is on that effect gravity and mass, what say that they did not apply this more to kintic shield even more in ME2. It state in black and white that it posible with any low level field and biotics are fast move projections of a consentrated force.

[Aumata]

nelly21 wrote...

I loved the Adept in ME 2.

That soldier's shields are down! Pull then light him up.

That soldier's shields are down and he's by a precipice! Throw him off.

Hey that group has no shields! Singularity and light them up or warp bomb.

The adept was not nerfed in ME 2. It was balanced so you couldn't just own anything in sight for the first few seconds of the fight and then hide behind your bulkier team mates while you were on cool down.

I a pretty good gamer. I'm not incredible. But I'm pretty good. I would say average. I had no problems with my Adept on Insanity.

The problem is that the game isn't balance with the protection system on.  For a combat class, this is akin to having someone have a high kinetic barrier on.  People can easily OHKO most folks with any of the combative classes.

Biotics seems to have the problem of cutting down their defenses till they can actually CC people.  While some would say this is a good balance.  Combative classes can also CC with cryo squad, or cryo blast, so it would just make casters on the redunance side of things.  Tech skills on the other hand was damn near oblitierated.  This is where I am at offense to the protection system.  I didn't have much of a problem with the protection system, but when I play a different class I would assume that I would get a new play style.  I turn to find out that engineer and adept was a copy-paste class.  The tragedy of the tech class, is that it was hit the hardest by the current system, yet people think biotics got screwed.

You also have to realize that biotics want to come into be challange on  a harder difficulty.  But it baically comes down to ho tedious do I want it to be.  Again the whole break down the protection then CC them makes the tech and biotic more of a finisher class than any thing else.

Another problem is the variety of enemies in ME2.  Lower than ME1.  Biotics only use warp, compare to warp, lift , and stasis, I think throw was used also.  Tech was reverted towards incinerate only, no damping, sabatoge, and overload, though incinerate solves that problem.  Combative classes actually loss out snipers, but replaced with heavy weapons.  The Snipers were one of the few classes to actually kill with in one hit.  Well for me anyway.
Kinetic barriers and damage reduction is nerf to lower-mid builds in comparison of ME1.  Tanking was out right removed in most classes minus seninels and vanguards.  Bioware really force people to stay in cover, and some times I find myself checking to make sure I have my shields upgraded.

The thermal clips is a big nerf.  Lore in ME1 stated that the mass effect fields reduce the need for ammo.  The themal clips brought it back for higher DPS.  Which works for everyone but Shepard.  I think the only time I ever see someone reload is the loki mechs.  Avenger vs Avenger shoot out and I had to reload, and he was shooting at me first.  That and the infiltrator.  I never knew how fustrating it was gonna be, when I had to go, should I use my sniper rifle or not.  Not because of ego reasons but I rarely get the ammo back.  I spend more time using my locust.  Sniper rifle was just the get out of trouble card.   Ironically ME1 has a higher DPS in most engagments in the sniper rifle than the one in ME2.  Or at least shepard wise, any one else in your party never have that problem.
Gimping your teammates was a bad decsion.  Longer cooldowns, few skills.  I know this was base on the fact that you had 12 people in your party.  But it wasn't a balancing, it was just making **** more tedious for you as a way to make it even.

This literally boils down to progression.  When most speak of OP classes in ME1, they mean end build Shepard.  Or depending on what you know can happen at a relative fast pace or level 20 putting no points to your skills and getting your specialization in your class.  ME1 you had to do a lot of building to get your class to be OP.  Because I had a harder time in the begining as an adept than a soldier.  Took me some time but I did reach the OP status, though I built my adept as a tank.  Damn soldier one up me on that thanks immunity.  But then I made people fly and work with my other team mates to take them down.  It not a feeling I get in ME2, though thats more because when ever I need their skills, **** is still cooling down.

Sorry about the rant.  I been pissed off about the protection system ever since my insanity run with engineer.  I missed being able to cripple people, and being a copy paste class of adept bothers me.  Because I might end up playing ME3 engineer playthrough not because of the gameplay but because I did **** differently in the story.

edit: make it more readable.

Modifié par Aumata, 25 avril 2011 - 10:23 .

[tonnactus]

Aumata wrote...

Gimping your teammates was a bad decsion.  Longer cooldowns, few skills..

Not only that.Believe it or not,but even thane and zaeed do less weapon damage then an adept shepardt...(even with evolved drell marksmen or merc warlord)
This is just outright retarded.There is no other word for this.
The squadmates in the first game were nearly on par compared with shepardt regarding talents,weapon damage and cooldowns.Some even have big advantages compared with him.Wrex got barrier and immunity,in addition to other biotic abilities like throw and warp(to bad that unlike in early builds it wasnt possible to control other squadmates like in dragon age)
Tali got higher shields then an engineer shepardt could get.(and is only an shadow of her self now with a absurd 30 sec cooldown on the combat drone)

[RedCaesar97]

Aumata wrote...

Biotics seems to have the problem of cutting down their defenses till they can actually CC people.  While some would say this is a good balance.  Combative classes can also CC with cryo squad, or cryo blast, so it would just make casters on the redunance side of things.  Tech skills on the other hand was damn near oblitierated.  This is where I am at offense to the protection system.  I didn't have much of a problem with the protection system, but when I play a different class I would assume that I would get a new play style.  I turn to find out that engineer and adept was a copy-paste class.  The tragedy of the tech class, is that it was hit the hardest by the current system, yet people think biotics got screwed.

Huh. For me, I find that the opposite is true. From my experience, I found the tech skills improved from ME1 to ME2. Protections were present in ME1, but they amounted to nothing more than shields, and shields in ME1 = that thing you shoot before you start shooting health. And while the radius of both biotic and tech skills were drastically reduced, I personally never found it that bad; I felt it more appropriate that the tech and biotic powers felt like a more focused and powerful cast rather than an wide-area weak cast. I do wish that both biotic and tech powers gained a wider area of effect as you leveled them up instead of just a level-4 evolution.

You also have to realize that biotics want to come into be challange on  a harder difficulty.  But it baically comes down to ho tedious do I want it to be.  Again the whole break down the protection then CC them makes the tech and biotic more of a finisher class than any thing else.

I find the Adept is more of  finishing class, not the Engineer. My Engineers are best at stripping enemy protections, then letting my squadmates finish them off. The Arrival DLC was an absolute pain with my Engineer, since I had no squadmates to help. I had a much easier time with the Adept.

Another problem is the variety of enemies in ME2.  Lower than ME1.  Biotics only use warp, compare to warp, lift , and stasis, I think throw was used also.  Tech was reverted towards incinerate only, no damping, sabatoge, and overload, though incinerate solves that problem.  Combative classes actually loss out snipers, but replaced with heavy weapons.  The Snipers were one of the few classes to actually kill with in one hit.  Well for me anyway.
Kinetic barriers and damage reduction is nerf to lower-mid builds in comparison of ME1.  Tanking was out right removed in most classes minus seninels and vanguards.  Bioware really force people to stay in cover, and some times I find myself checking to make sure I have my shields upgraded.

I am not sure if ME1 actually had more enemy variety than ME2. I will have to think about that. In ME1, you had Adepts and Techs (and the occasional enemy sentinel), but they were rare. You had a lot of random Geth. A few drones. Two types of zombies (puking Thorian creepers and overloading Husks), and Krogan. That's about it. I am kind of glad that tanking is out in ME2, although the Sentinel never should have been a tank. 

The thermal clips is a big nerf.  Lore in ME1 stated that the mass effect fields reduce the need for ammo.  The themal clips brought it back for higher DPS.  Which works for everyone but Shepard.  I think the only time I ever see someone reload is the loki mechs.  Avenger vs Avenger shoot out and I had to reload, and he was shooting at me first.  That and the infiltrator.  I never knew how fustrating it was gonna be, when I had to go, should I use my sniper rifle or not.  Not because of ego reasons but I rarely get the ammo back.  I spend more time using my locust.  Sniper rifle was just the get out of trouble card.   Ironically ME1 has a higher DPS in most engagments in the sniper rifle than the one in ME2.  Or at least shepard wise, any one else in your party never have that problem.
Gimping your teammates was a bad decsion.  Longer cooldowns, few skills.  I know this was base on the fact that you had 12 people in your party.  But it wasn't a balancing, it was just making **** more tedious for you as a way to make it even.

I am firmly in the "I like Thermal clips" camp. The thermal clips system allows for more weapon variety, unlike ME1 where each weapon type (assault rifles, shotguns, pistols, and sniper rifles) had exactly one weapon, just different stats. And Assault Rifles and Sniper rifles were useless until you started getting level 4 (IV) versions. 
Changing to the thermal clip system did remove the weapon-based powers, but I hardly ever used them anyway. I know others are not so happy. 

This literally boils down to progression.  When most speak of OP classes in ME1, they mean end build Shepard.  Or depending on what you know can happen at a relative fast pace or level 20 putting no points to your skills and getting your specialization in your class.  ME1 you had to do a lot of building to get your class to be OP.  Because I had a harder time in the begining as an adept than a soldier.  Took me some time but I did reach the OP status, though I built my adept as a tank.  Damn soldier one up me on that thanks immunity.  But then I made people fly and work with my other team mates to take them down.  It not a feeling I get in ME2, though thats more because when ever I need their skills, **** is still cooling down.

Mid-to-late game, almost every class in ME1 could become overpowered. And I hate how long it seems to take to get to that point, and then how long it takes before ME1 finally ends. I am playing through ME1 right now to get a few more characters and I cannot wait to get back to ME2 where I enjoy the combat so much more. 

Sorry about the rant.  I been pissed off about the protection system ever since my insanity run with engineer.  I missed being able to cripple people, and being a copy paste class of adept bothers me.  Because I might end up playing ME3 engineer playthrough not because of the gameplay but because I did **** differently in the story.

A lot of people are ranting on the forums, and especially this thread. Your post was actually an enjoyable read. 

[Aumata]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. I already talked about hardening. It clear that it a stander feature in all armours. Andno it would not stop it all the time.
2.As state Mess effect field is on that effect gravity and mass, what say that they did not apply this more to kintic shield even more in ME2. It state in black and white that it posible with any low level field and biotics are fast move projections of a consentrated force.

Kinetic barriers are high density mass effect fields.  Low density mass effect fields are need to manipulate gravity.  So that throws kinetic barriers out.  Hardening is is applied to the armor but is a seperate piece of equipment.  To top it all off. Varen and klixen, to which they don't have any ezeo cores on them, also resists  biotics.  It is a gameplay mechanic, for the pathetic attempt at balancing the classes.  There is a reason for why they are call kinetic barrier and the other mass effect fields.

Also yeah I did forget about that gimping in weapons damage.  What is up with the nerfs anyway.  Did people really **** about tech and biotics being overpowered, and that teammates where out performing them?  Serisouly they left the combat classes alone, and for the most part nerf and change the casters classes.

[dreman9999]

Aumata wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

I loved the Adept in ME 2.

That soldier's shields are down! Pull then light him up.

That soldier's shields are down and he's by a precipice! Throw him off.

Hey that group has no shields! Singularity and light them up or warp bomb.

The adept was not nerfed in ME 2. It was balanced so you couldn't just own anything in sight for the first few seconds of the fight and then hide behind your bulkier team mates while you were on cool down.

I a pretty good gamer. I'm not incredible. But I'm pretty good. I would say average. I had no problems with my Adept on Insanity.

The problem is that the game isn't balance with the protection system on.  For a combat class, this is akin to having someone have a high kinetic barrier on.  People can easily OHKO most folks with any of the combative classes.

Biotics seems to have the problem of cutting down their defenses till they can actually CC people.  While some would say this is a good balance.  Combative classes can also CC with cryo squad, or cryo blast, so it would just make casters on the redunance side of things.  Tech skills on the other hand was damn near oblitierated.  This is where I am at offense to the protection system.  I didn't have much of a problem with the protection system, but when I play a different class I would assume that I would get a new play style.  I turn to find out that engineer and adept was a copy-paste class.  The tragedy of the tech class, is that it was hit the hardest by the current system, yet people think biotics got screwed.

You also have to realize that biotics want to come into be challange on  a harder difficulty.  But it baically comes down to ho tedious do I want it to be.  Again the whole break down the protection then CC them makes the tech and biotic more of a finisher class than any thing else.

Another problem is the variety of enemies in ME2.  Lower than ME1.  Biotics only use warp, compare to warp, lift , and stasis, I think throw was used also.  Tech was reverted towards incinerate only, no damping, sabatoge, and overload, though incinerate solves that problem.  Combative classes actually loss out snipers, but replaced with heavy weapons.  The Snipers were one of the few classes to actually kill with in one hit.  Well for me anyway.
Kinetic barriers and damage reduction is nerf to lower-mid builds in comparison of ME1.  Tanking was out right removed in most classes minus seninels and vanguards.  Bioware really force people to stay in cover, and some times I find myself checking to make sure I have my shields upgraded.

The thermal clips is a big nerf.  Lore in ME1 stated that the mass effect fields reduce the need for ammo.  The themal clips brought it back for higher DPS.  Which works for everyone but Shepard.  I think the only time I ever see someone reload is the loki mechs.  Avenger vs Avenger shoot out and I had to reload, and he was shooting at me first.  That and the infiltrator.  I never knew how fustrating it was gonna be, when I had to go, should I use my sniper rifle or not.  Not because of ego reasons but I rarely get the ammo back.  I spend more time using my locust.  Sniper rifle was just the get out of trouble card.   Ironically ME1 has a higher DPS in most engagments in the sniper rifle than the one in ME2.  Or at least shepard wise, any one else in your party never have that problem.
Gimping your teammates was a bad decsion.  Longer cooldowns, few skills.  I know this was base on the fact that you had 12 people in your party.  But it wasn't a balancing, it was just making **** more tedious for you as a way to make it even.

This literally boils down to progression.  When most speak of OP classes in ME1, they mean end build Shepard.  Or depending on what you know can happen at a relative fast pace or level 20 putting no points to your skills and getting your specialization in your class.  ME1 you had to do a lot of building to get your class to be OP.  Because I had a harder time in the begining as an adept than a soldier.  Took me some time but I did reach the OP status, though I built my adept as a tank.  Damn soldier one up me on that thanks immunity.  But then I made people fly and work with my other team mates to take them down.  It not a feeling I get in ME2, though thats more because when ever I need their skills, **** is still cooling down.

Sorry about the rant.  I been pissed off about the protection system ever since my insanity run with engineer.  I missed being able to cripple people, and being a copy paste class of adept bothers me.  Because I might end up playing ME3 engineer playthrough not because of the gameplay but because I did **** differently in the story.

edit: make it more readable.

1. Tech skill in no way obliterated, just reformed to mess with the eneimy and cut through defences esaily. The thing is everytime you post about engineers is that you forget the driod that not only turnspeople away from you but also has a quick cooldown time. You can cast it and then in 2 secs or less use any power. And on top of things you can make eneimies more vonerable in this class with overload that not only takes out shield but overheats guns which will delay attacks.(For a few second, but those second are vital.) and energy drain the has aquick cooldown too and add to your shields. Also, every attacking direct damage power you have stops eneiemies.
Now in ME1, this class only had one power like that that could be used once......and than power now can hit groups. No way is the class nerfed. And Biotic have may ways to take off shield, minor eneimies have low shield and can be used as bomb to talk out stronger eneimies too. The only problem this class has is with Ymir Mecks and verrin and that was solved with stasis. With the shorter cooldown, the class has a high flexiblity with atttack...with out stoping everyone at once.

2. The varaity is the same as ME1, ME2 add more animal typs, mechs, and collectors. If you compere an Asari from ME1 to one in ME2 you find that they both fight the same way. That changed is they took all the snipers and gave them rocket lanchers.

3.For solders it was never about attack power in ME1, it was defence. That was the only thing nerfed for the attack class. Now with adrinaline rush, high power rapid fire weopon similer to the makos, and other bullet powers that don't effect fire rate and can add effects to targets, the attack power for the fighting classes are stonger than ever. But it they had unlimited ammo, they would wip the game easilly. All you have is solders and infiltrators sitting back and using widows and day long. So it more of a balcae for the class. More attack power, less chances to use it.
4.For one thing, youcan still make yourtank adept. And other,it about testing out what works or not. I'll give an example: When ME2 forcame out everyone felt that Vanguard can't do insanity runs. Then they learn the effect of cryo ammo incresing chance for sevival. Then they learnt that high impact charge slowdown help with cover hoping. Then they learn area reave could not only strip protection esaily but it made vanguard hard to kill. Then they learn isolation tactics. Build making is still their you just have to take you timeto learn. With ME1,BUILD MAKE WAS JUST EASY BECAUSE OF THE OFF BALNCE NATURE OF THE SYSTEM.  ME2 is just harder.

[tonnactus]

RedCaesar97 wrote...


I am not sure if ME1 actually had more enemy variety than ME2. I will have to think about that. In ME1, you had Adepts and Techs (and the occasional enemy sentinel), but they were rare.

Every main story mission(aside from den prime) have geth hoppers and they were tech enemies.Even in talis rescue the salarians were tech enemies.

[dreman9999]

tonnactus wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...


I am not sure if ME1 actually had more enemy variety than ME2. I will have to think about that. In ME1, you had Adepts and Techs (and the occasional enemy sentinel), but they were rare.

Every main story mission(aside from den prime) have geth hoppers and they were tech enemies.Even in talis rescue the salarians were tech enemies.

Are we forgeting th engineers we fight in ME2 and the mechs, and the elite solders that were just infiltrators with heavy shields.