281 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Example I had problem with playing Alpha protocol and Jade Empire, that doens't mean they are bad games and I should go they forum and bash the game.

If you bought the game then you have every right to do that. 

No I don't. I have right to report my problems as bug, I have right to leave feedpack, even critism as long it's constructive. How ever, I do not have right to BASH they game or company in they forum, just because I did not like they product or I have problems with it. That's just bad behavior from people. Just because you buyed something and it's not what you expect, you did not like it or have problems, that does not mean you have right to behave badly.

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 avril 2011 - 01:29 .

[catofnine]

To the OP's question:
"Yes" if you give Oblivion the time they need to make a quality game.
A definite "No" if they're only given the same dev time as DA2.

I like the core guys at Oblivion. They came up with some of my favorite games: PS:T, Fallout 1-2, but with NWN2, KOTOR2 I doubt that they can deliver quality under more constrictive time frames. Botching of KOTOR 2 was just tragic. I really thought that if they were allowed to have the kind of time they needed, it would have surpassed KOTOR in depth and quality. I didn't even bother with F:NV or Alpha Protocol. They're a studio that's capable of telling great stories and adding all kinds of nuance in games, but only if they're allowed to have the kind of time that's qualified as "it's done when we're done." I doubt they'd be allowed that.

Modifié par catofnine, 22 avril 2011 - 01:38 .

[Sussurus]

Hmmm tbh, I love FO:NV but it was handled poorly in many places.
The Dev team I have to say were open and listened to many users, and implemented many wishes.
However it had too many issues, and not just bugs.

I doubt a bioware / obsidian / ea game with only Bioware having creative experience of the universe it's set in would actually work in any way.
However if it happens it happens, and I can eat my hat.

[MrProliferation]

After KOTOR 2, Alpha Protocol, and FO:NV, I have very little faith in Obsidian. FO:NV was the worst. That was working on a pre-existing engine, and they STILL haven't fixed most of what's wrong with it. I think everyone who is talking about development time and giving them time is missing an important dimension of it: ambition. Obsidian's flaw is hubris. They have all these fantastic ideas:

- Hey a Spy RPG!
- A remake of the failed Van Buren Fallout on a new engine with four different ways of completing the main questline!

Then what happens is that they either lose focus - look at the horrifically long development time on Alpha Protocol and the correspondingly horrific gameplay despite a decent story and writing, or they simply fail to execute. FO:NV, despite all its free-roaming glory, ends up feeling sort of unfocused and half-baked. You have all these factions, but in the end not much happens with them except you either become friendly with them or destroy them. That's kind of the only choices in FO:NV questlines, befriend or destroy, and there is not much in the way of real consequences of those decisions for most of the factions. If you kill off almost all the factions, there is not a great deal that changes in the end game.

Dungeon Siege III I think will be the ultimate test, but I'm betting they fail on that count too. That game already looks like you can only pick from a tiny menu of completely pre-defined characters. At least DSII let you custom make your player character.

Modifié par MrProliferation, 22 avril 2011 - 02:00 .

[Xanfyrst]

Obsidian is to me a more ambitious RPG developer than Bioware. They have all this interesting ideas, but somehow end up being forced to compromise.

Btw Torment is the best RPG ever produced. Far outshines the BG and Kotor-series.

[TUHD]

scyphozoa wrote...

Its funny and sad at that same time to see so many people dismiss KOTOR2 because of bugs. I have played through KOTOR 2 over a dozen times without encountering bugs. It is very sad you didn't have as awesome of an experience as I did

KOTOR 2 isn't bad - but you'd need to use the Telios Restored Content Mod if you really want the game as it originally was meant to be (not the 'short' experience delivered due to the lack of time and funds)

[MrProliferation]

Xanfyrst wrote...

Obsidian is to me a more ambitious RPG developer than Bioware. They have all this interesting ideas, but somehow end up being forced to compromise.

Btw Torment is the best RPG ever produced. Far outshines the BG and Kotor-series.

Torment is pretty great. Shame there were never any other Planescape games.

If "compromise," you mean "release a product," then I agree with you. You don't get unlimited development time. Certain companies can do this (i.e. Valve Time) but even they have to occassionally release something to keep the bills getting paid that barely qualifies as a new game (i.e. LFD2 which, don't get me wrong, I love, but not a whole lot of changes from LFD1).

DA2 was rushed, yes. FO:NV was rushed also, though that was on a pretty well-defined engine with far less changes to it than, say, the DA to DA2 engine and gameplay mechanics. I think Obsidian just clearly has some kind of mismanagement problem. The people in charge of the company have great vision, but poor execution. I don't think it's a factor of compromise, I think it's a factor of not being able to get their act together. They had quite a lot of development time on Alpha Protocol (it was delayed for an entire year at one point very close to release date) and the game, while having some interesting features, is still half-baked.

Every project has to have a schedule. As much as it would be nice to say "it's done when it's done," that's not really a viable business model in most cases. Just look at Duke Nukem Forever! That's "it's done when it's done" running completely amok and bankrupting a company. DA2 could've used more time, yes. But what's happened to Obsidian has happened too many times to say it's always the publisher. It's points to a lack of internal discipline.

[88mphSlayer]

go for it, just make sure they have a proper QA team

[OhoniX]

I wouldn't want them to "take over" the franchise, making every game in the series, but I wouldn't mind seeing them develop "side story" games, sort of like if Awakenings didn't give the option of importing the Warden, or like Halo: ODST or Reach, just games that take place off the path Bioware intends to take the main plot, but that cover interesting stories of their own. The more Dragon Age the better, and I'd prefer to see a quality studio taking their time on each game than to have only one studio rushing to put out as many games as possible.

[Guitar-Hero]

People give obsidian waaay to much credit, after NW and AP two games that had a lot of issues it would only make the franchise suffer(in my opinion) after all DA2 wasn't a bad game, it just wasn't a great game which is what i think people have come to expect from Bioware, and that is why people are responding like this.

[bzombo]

If Obsidian took over DA, I might not buy it. They're decent as developers, but the last time I really enjoyed a game of theirs is Icewind Dale 2 back when most of the devs there were working at now defunct Black Isle Studios.

[Sen4lifE]

marshalleck wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

Snip..

Never seen a BioWare game where choices even a fraction of the impact compared to this one.

Snip..

You've never played Mass Effect, have you?

The better question is, have you played Alpha Protocol, more then once? I'm not talking about choices, I'm talking about how those choices change your playthrough. Not a simple who lives/dies, but how to do things, who you work with, and the ramifications those decisions have on other missions. If Ashley or Kaidan dies, if the Rachni Queen lives or dies, if Wrex lives or dies, does it change the rest of ME1? Does it close/open up other missions, even change a single upcoming mission? It has effect in ME2, I'll give you that, and likely even more ramifications in ME3, but in ME1 itself? Like I said, not even close.

Sorry, but I disagree.  Mass Effect is a trilogy but really could be considered a mega-story, all one thing as the games run back-to-back.  It's kind of like how Lord of the Rings was released in 3 volumes however it is 1 novel.  Even in Mass Effect 1 you can achieve many different endings to sequences out of choices and by Mass Effect 3 there will be a few hundred to thousands of endings depending on the combination of your decisions.

Alpha Protocol does not achieve this.  You need to look at the bigger picture: Mass Effect itself.  I never did say 1, 2 or 3.

What a load of crap. Mass Effect series has yet to deliver on any promises of major consequences for decisions made. What Bioware have done so far is basically bunted in ME2 with the promise of delivering in ME3. Will that happen? Remains to be seen. Alpha Protocol however changes as you play it. You can't really appreciate it if you've only gone through the game once. 

Oh and by the way. Planescape: Torment > Baldur's Gate 2. 

Oh you're right, the fact that you could die and not be able to continue into Mass Effect 3 or save every person on your ship, possibly cause mass extinction on an entire species, convert sentient robots to help you . . .

You're right, it's a rather linear game.

[Sen4lifE]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Interesting idea, but no, I don't think it would be better. I mean Kotor 1 was Biowares, but I don't think Kotor 2 was better.

KOTOR II was one of the great "what if" moments of gaming history. What is most telling is that even a half finished game compared favourably with a lot of people. Had KOTORII actually been allowed to ship with it's  intended ending who knows how things would have changed.

This I will not actually blame on Obsidian.  Obsidian wanted to release a free patch that finished the game after it's initial release.  Lucas Arts wanted to release Knights of the Old Republic 2 during the holidays, and Obsidian had to take that but wanted to sound off the series with a really large game, and thus petitioned LA to let them release a free patch after that basically finished the game (and repaired it for PC players).   Lucas Arts, for no real reason, said no.  I believe even one of the original devs of the project was involved in the Restoration Project.

[b44l]

@OP
As I don't like the games they make it would be a bad thing IMO.

[PlumPaul93]

there would be even more bugs than there already is? I loved FONV but the bugs were pathetic and sometimes made the game unplayable. It might work but theres probably no way it will happen.

[Lord Gremlin]

No way. Bastards from Obsidian don't know jack about PS3 programming.

[Galad22]

If obsidian took over, story and writing would be better. I think it is win even if end result would be buggier at realease.

If they could only properly polish their games, their games would be so much more better than biowares. On account of better story and writing.

Look at Kotor 2 it is awesome game even though it was released before it was ready. Even unfinished it is better game than Kotor in my opinion.

[JaegerBane]

MorrigansLove wrote...

What if Obsidian took over the Dragon Age series like they took over the Fallout series? Would you mind? Do you think it would be a better game than Dragon Age 2? What are your thoughts on this random topic of mine.

I think we have to be realistic here - Obsidian really do know their stuff when it comes to character development and scripting. Mask of the Betrayer was probably one of the best expansion packs ever released.

But Obsidian rank amongst some of the worst when it comes to finishing their games. Their releases are typically loaded with bugs and gaffs and it's often several patches before the game in question can even be played to completion. I doubt they're going to be able to do anything with the DA franchise that Bioware can't do better.

'Course, until Bioware get a grip and start thinking through what they're doing, that could easily change.

[Tommy6860]

catofnine wrote...

To the OP's question:
"Yes" if you give Oblivion the time they need to make a quality game.
A definite "No" if they're only given the same dev time as DA2.

I like the core guys at Oblivion. They came up with some of my favorite games: PS:T, Fallout 1-2, but with NWN2, KOTOR2 I doubt that they can deliver quality under more constrictive time frames. Botching of KOTOR 2 was just tragic. I really thought that if they were allowed to have the kind of time they needed, it would have surpassed KOTOR in depth and quality. I didn't even bother with F:NV or Alpha Protocol. They're a studio that's capable of telling great stories and adding all kinds of nuance in games, but only if they're allowed to have the kind of time that's qualified as "it's done when we're done." I doubt they'd be allowed that.

The core guys at Oblivion were from 2K Games and Bethesda was the publisher. The core guys that were the main 3 for the beginning of Black Isle Studios (owned by Interplay) which developed F1&2 as well as PS:T, left BI after Fallout 1 and before Fallout 2 and well before PS:T. They went on to form Troika Games and that foundered after a about 7 years years. After Black Isle folded, most of the employees went on to become part of Obsidian Entertainment.

[randName]

You would get a better cRPG, it would have better story, but more bugs.

Normally I would also say that they would be forced to rush it, but given that DA2 was also rushed that's not really valid any more.

[Curlain]

Galad22 wrote...

If obsidian took over, story and writing would be better. I think it is win even if end result would be buggier at realease.

If they could only properly polish their games, their games would be so much more better than biowares. On account of better story and writing.

Look at Kotor 2 it is awesome game even though it was released before it was ready. Even unfinished it is better game than Kotor in my opinion.

Yeah KOTOR 2 was great even as it was (with no disrespect to KOTOR, I love that game, KOTOR2 had a more original and interesting story, and presented some great and thought-provoking ideas in parts of companion conversations, and had a great PR experience), and Keira remains one of my all time favourite cRPG characters ever created

Modifié par Curlain, 22 avril 2011 - 08:20 .

[Marionetten]

Khayness wrote...

Awesome writing and actual romances.

Chris Avellone is the Man.

Fixed that for you. Annah/FFG remains the best romance options to date and it didn't boil down to getting in their panties.

[Sen4lifE]

Marionetten wrote...

Khayness wrote...

Awesome writing and actual romances.

Chris Avellone is the Man.

Fixed that for you. Annah/FFG remains the best romance options to date and it didn't boil down to getting in their panties.

That "I fixed it" stuff is really obnoxious..

Anyhow, isn't that what romance is really about?  No.. oh well.  I liked Bastila and Morrigan romances.  Merril is eh, and Isabela.. well that is what her romance is about.