60 réponses à ce sujet

[kcman5]

It boils down to simplicity without overanalyzing it. Warrior= (2 handed) machine built for death and destruction of multiple mobs. Tank speaks for itself. Rogue= single target(highest dps) destruction. Mage= Battle management coordinator and AOE king. Now the obvious choice is, what one do you want to be and go from there.

P.S. Any class with no knowledge can make any PC weak period. If all else fails, Kite with the one being targeted and have all else auto attack.  lol

Modifié par kcman5, 23 avril 2011 - 06:38 .

[p95h]

The only "Harder" fight I've found for melee classes is the Arishok 1-on-1 duel. Mages and Archers have a much easier time with that fight than do warriors (at least those without high defense build) and melee rogues (which are probably in for the longest fight - hit and run seems to work best). Otherwise, most builds are pretty balanced in regard to other fights.

[Amioran]

Darth Krytie wrote...

Rogue was weakest for me...which was weird since it was my favourite class in DA:O. There wasn't really any benefit to being a rogue in this game over the other classes. Especially since there's not a lot of need to lockpick or disarm traps without party members. And Varric is so hella awesome with his AOE attacks, it wasn't a burden always having him in party.

I really don't get how people can possibly say DW rogues are weak in DA2.

They have the highest damage of all classes (either against them all combined) and a lot of threat reducing talents.

If I had to say what's the most powerful class, in fact, I would choose DW rogue, by far. A) They can kill strong enemies in one hit, they can jump around the battlefield, C) they are never targeted on mid-endgame.

Point A turns a difficult fight for a warrior in a joke. Point B make them shelter weak party members better, and point C means that they can dish a lot of damage very fast without taking damage. What more can one possibly want?

The only encounters a rogue has difficulty with is when there are a lot of normal rank enemies attacking from all sides + a boss (as the forbidden knowledge quest or later on act 3 before Orsino), because he lacks any either minimal form of CC.

While I made two runs with warrior I cannot see how people think them so powerful. Sure, they are great in the end, but 1) they are boring, 2) they really shine only very far, 3) they cannot control the field as mages nor kill as fast as rogues, so they are a sort of jack-of-all-trades and masters of none. More, they are totally dependant on the other classes to be good.

Their only benefit? They are much easier to play and to build, for this they are the preferred class by the majority.

Modifié par Amioran, 23 avril 2011 - 09:48 .

[Adokat]

Amioran wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

Rogue was weakest for me...which was weird since it was my favourite class in DA:O. There wasn't really any benefit to being a rogue in this game over the other classes. Especially since there's not a lot of need to lockpick or disarm traps without party members. And Varric is so hella awesome with his AOE attacks, it wasn't a burden always having him in party.

I really don't get how people can possibly say DW rogues are weak in DA2.

They have the highest damage of all classes (either against them all combined) and a lot of threat reducing talents.

If I had to say what's the most powerful class, in fact, I would choose DW rogue, by far. A) They can kill strong enemies in one hit, they can jump around the battlefield, C) they are never targeted on mid-endgame.

Point A turns a difficult fight for a warrior in a joke. Point B make them shelter weak party members better, and point C means that they can dish a lot of damage very fast without taking damage. What more can one possibly want?

The only encounters a rogue has difficulty with is when there are a lot of normal rank enemies attacking from all sides + a boss (as the forbidden knowledge quest or later on act 3 before Orsino), because he lacks any either minimal form of CC.

While I made two runs with warrior I cannot see how people think them so powerful. Sure, they are great in the end, but 1) they are boring, 2) they really shine only very far, 3) they cannot control the field as mages nor kill as fast as rogues, so they are a sort of jack-of-all-trades and masters of none. More, they are totally dependant on the other classes to be good.

Their only benefit? They are much easier to play and to build, for this they are the preferred class by the majority.

I think you're ignoring some of the benefits of playing a warrior(otherwise, why does everyone recommend having one in their party?)
1) That's opinion.  I kind of like the feeling of taking every enemy attack for my team and hitting half a dozen enemies per swing. 
2) Don't know what you mean.
3) Warriors lack a rogue's single target dps, but are much faster at killing the grunt type enemies.  That, and their ability to 'tank' damage are where warriors shine.  Both types of damage are important (although I think a rogue Hawke's burst damage is more unique).  Also, as far as controlling the battlefield goes, well, most fights revolve around my warrior ensuring that every enemy is attacking her, and only her-not crowd control in terms of what a mage can do, but combat still revolves around the warrior.

[Sabotin]

DW rogues aren't even close to weak (I think the problem is they get thrashed arround a lot at the start if you're not careful), but you have to admit, warriors are hella strong. Right now I'm on my 3rd warrior run through (s&s damage dealer) and it's been even better than with a 2h one. I had to double check difficulty in tranquility and night lies, they went over so fast, hehe. No real need to 1shot anything .

And just for the record, highest damage that I know of was with a warrior, not rogue.

[Darth Krytie]

Me saying they're weakest out of three is not the same as saying they're weak in general.

[Amioran]

Adokat wrote...
I think you're ignoring some of the benefits of playing a warrior(otherwise, why does everyone recommend having one in their party?)

Because they can tank? Because they are easy to build?

Adokat wrote...
1) That's opinion.  I kind of like the feeling of taking every enemy attack for my team and hitting half a dozen enemies per swing. 

Can be opinion, however the gameplay of a warrior is: doing always the same things in the same exact manner, every.. single... time.

Adokat wrote...
2) Don't know what you mean.

It is theorycrafting, having to do with elemental damage.

Adokat wrote...
Warriors lack a rogue's single target dps, but are much faster at killing the grunt type enemies. 

Who cares? Mages are better at it, and against stronger enemies they are much worser than rogues. Jack-of-all-trades, as I said.

Adokat wrote...
That, and their ability to 'tank' damage are where warriors shine.

Yes, tanking, that's it. 

Adokat wrote...
Also, as far as controlling the battlefield goes, well, most fights revolve around my warrior ensuring that every enemy is attacking her, and only her-not crowd control in terms of what a mage can do, but combat still revolves around the warrior.

It's not the same. CC can lock, a warrior can't.

Still, apart this, I know that warriors are very powerful in skilled hands, it is only that I don't see how people can adore them thinking they are the strongest class of the game. They aren't.

[kcman5]

You must be doing something wrong then.. A skilled wearrior can stagger enemies in multiples.. This is what sets up the mage and rogue for CCC's. Rogues are very beastly but have to be micro managed if a melee type. Rogues aren't meant to go toe to toe and expect to win. They are assassins and backstabbers that take advantage of that fact.. But it's personal opinion. Personally I'd rather have a toon that can engage multiples and bring them down, vs a one on one situation anytime of the day.

Modifié par kcman5, 24 avril 2011 - 03:18 .

[Adokat]

Amioran wrote...

Adokat wrote...
I think you're ignoring some of the benefits of playing a warrior(otherwise, why does everyone recommend having one in their party?)

Because they can tank? Because they are easy to build?

Adokat wrote...
1) That's opinion.  I kind of like the feeling of taking every enemy attack for my team and hitting half a dozen enemies per swing. 

Can be opinion, however the gameplay of a warrior is: doing always the same things in the same exact manner, every.. single... time.

Adokat wrote...
That, and their ability to 'tank' damage are where warriors shine.

Yes, tanking, that's it. 

Still, apart this, I know that warriors are very powerful in skilled hands, it is only that I don't see how people can adore them thinking they are the strongest class of the game. They aren't.

How is a rogue any tougher to build?  Sorry, it's not.  Kinda hard to mess up.  Mages, yeah, I can see how they have a tougher build.

One can easily say that any class is just about doing the same thing over and over.  Heck, the way I build my rogue, I have even less abilities that I use actively.

Warriors aren't just about tanking.  In my Nightmare run, my warrior never got a single defensive talent.  Warriors do aoe damage with thier swings.  Rogues should easily out dps warriors on a single target, but a warrior is often attacking at least three enemies at a time, and as such, warriors kill weaker groups of enemies much faster than a rogue would.  These enemies do damage disproportionate to their health, and it's an important part of combat to take them down quickly.  With so many enemy kills, a warrior can usually spam abilities constantly.  Lets you press more buttons in an extended fight.  That's fun, right?

I never meant that warriors were the best class, just that they are important and fun.  You don't seem to get this, but some people like the feeling of being a warrior.  You keep your teammates alive, you're always in the middle of combat, and you can easily get the most kills.  Also, a warrior can setup CCCs easier than any other class, which is awesome for your mages.  It's exciting, to some.  Maybe others don't find ranged combat fun, or don't like being knocked back all the time as a dagger rogue. Warriors are great for the roles they play, although on Nightmare it's probably less than ideal to try to bring more than 1 of them. 

If I were to pick a "best class," if anything, it probably wouldn't be a warrior. If you read my earlier post, I indicated that Rogue Hawkes are capable of doing insane burst damage, and are the most unique class to pick in that sense.  Rogues should always do the most single-target dps, and there are plenty of targets against whom it's crucial that you dish out tons of damage in a very short time. It's a role your party's rogues can't fill nearly as well. However, your party's warriors and mages can all do decently well filling in for Hawke's other potential roles.

Modifié par Adokat, 24 avril 2011 - 04:43 .

[Amioran]

Adokat wrote...
How is a rogue any tougher to build?  Sorry, it's not.  Kinda hard to mess up..

Wrong, and, in fact, you have the proof in forums. Many think rogues weak because they cannot build them correctly.

Sorry, but to make a good rogue you must know a little about game mechanics. For a warrior this isn't necessary, it is so only if you want to make specific things and make builds that excels, but in average they are much more accessible than a rogue, that suffers very much (probably either more than a mage) if you don't know game mechanics well.

Adokat wrote...
One can easily say that any class is just about doing the same thing over and over.  Heck, the way I build my rogue, I have even less abilities that I use actively.

Doing the same things have nothing to do with abilities. A rogue gameplay can consist even of no abilities and just auto-attacking, yet it is much more varied anyway.

It is not tied to what the build specifically use (because all builds will use the same abilities after a while anyway) but to how they act in different situations. Warriors are those that variates the less depending on what you face.

Adokat wrote...
With so many enemy kills, a warrior can usually spam abilities constantly.  Lets you press more buttons in an extended fight.  That's fun, right?

Again, chaining abilities have nothing to do with this. Apart this, then, probably the strongest warrior build relies majorly on auto-attacks.

Adokat wrote...
I never meant that warriors were the best class, just that they are important and fun.

It was not addressed to you specifically, but in general. All I hear around is "warriors are good this", "warriors are the best that", "warriors are strongest" etc.

Since I played warriors, I know why the majority of people think so, and, whatever you say, it is not for the "fun" factor (also if many swear by it, but usually if you ask them about other classes they will tell you they couldn't "play" - meaning they find them not "good" - with those), but for the accessibility.

Adokat wrote...
It's exciting, to some.

 

Sure. You can find exicting many things, but speaking from a purely confrontative point of view, from an objective point of view taking in consideration the technical aspect of the gameplay, they are the class that suffer the most from doing the same things over and over with very little variancy dependant on encounter type.

Adokat wrote...
Maybe others don't find ranged combat fun, or don't like being knocked back all the time as a dagger rogue.

If you are knocked back (that is different from knocked down, int this case also warriors are) after act 1 with a rogue then you are doing something wrong.

Adokat wrote...
If I were to pick a "best class," if anything, it probably wouldn't be a warrior.

See? We agree ;-)

Modifié par Amioran, 24 avril 2011 - 05:10 .

[Adokat]

Are people really saying that rogues are weak? I thought it was only mages that people say that about. I guess I see what you mean about a warrior being more accessible, but that's less to do with the talents/tactics required, and more due to the higher Con required for armor, which gives you more room to make mistakes. Also, I think warrior is kind of the default choice for most people, so they're more likely to say their class is best, without trying out any of the other ones. Kind of silly, but that's how it goes.


I just don't see how what a rogue does is all that different from a warrior. Requiring more advanced tactics isn't really necessary if you play an archer rogue, as you're much safer from enemy attacks. A dagger rogue, though, yeah, I can see it being more difficult. Still, my overall role doesn't change much.

I do see how a mage is more challenging and diverse, since they have many more options for how they want to play, and their survivability is low without some important talents in the bloodmage/force mage specs.

In my Nightmare run, I'm going archery for the survivability for Act 1, and then switching for the higher damage of daggers sometime in Act 2 when I have more tools to help me stay alive.