244 réponses à ce sujet

[ExtremeOne]

Gabriel the First wrote...

@ExtremeOne

link?

  




It makes no sense .   

[Bailyn242]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
I am sorry but a Man and his company spends 4 Billion credits to bring back Shepard and give him a new Ship and now after ME 2 he is back to be a evil bastard . I am not buying it at all . If he was after Shepard he would have never brought him back to start with . Bioware is making Cerberus the fall guys because the reaper story is stupid and has a bunch of dumb crap in it . So they need a enemy that will make ME 3 not look so f**king stupid .  

Not true Cerberus' character has been all over the board since day one. I mean...

ME1 Cerberus = An agency so incompetent that they have earned the Umbrella Corp. seal of approval.

ME2 Cerberus = We don't play by the rules but we are the only ones trying to save the galaxy from the Reapers

Book Cerberus = That + we really don't like aliens, what a bunch of savages.

ME3 = Hurr Durr I am evul for no aparant raisin...

OMG Fry is the lead writer for ME3.

You're saying that killing colonists and marines for experiments, admirals trying to stop them, experiments on kids like Jack, making Paul Greyson husk, torturing David in Overlord, everything that Kei Leng did is NOT evil to you?!

Also Cerberus was ALWAYS incompetent.
Did you forget the failures of Overlord and Jack? Hell even a Lazarus Project was almost a failure.

   



I am sorry but Bioware is retconing Cerberus and its bull sh*t and someone needs to call them out for the sorry ass story telling they are doing . Cerberus brought Shepard back and now you tell me they want him dead . That makes no sense at all. what is worse they refuse to discuss at all . Its becoming clear why they turned Cerberus against Shepard. They have no reason for it so they are going to hide it . 

Wrong, you had played the Cerberus Lackey and racist line because you like playing "Bad Guys aka Bad Asses". The ME2 plotholes had you hoping you could do that and get the warm and fuzzies at the end of it all, like you were some "good guy" or antihero and now that your assumptions have been destroyed you want to ****** and moan about it.

Get a grip, you knew Cerberus was nasty and villainous from the first game, you chose to jump on the TIM is cools band wagon and are pissed that that choice is gonna bite you in the ass. TIM has been portrayed and a villain from the git go but BW did a masterful job of making him just excusable enough that you could convince yourself that you were making the right choice. 

BW games have had this element to them since Baldur's Gate for crying out loud, let alone Kotor. They understand that some gamers want to be bad and others want to be heros. Accept that you are a bad guy and revel in it, don't ****** and moan that your villainy has been exposed. We have yet to learn anything other than TIM is after us in ME3, nothing about why, nor about what the differences will be between the CB choices, keep or destroy? So what say we hold off on whinging for about 5 months and we'll find out how they did.

The very complaints you have about this issue are ones I raised in regards to ME2, it was forced and contrived that I could gain no traction as a paragon with the Alliance or the Council. It was for damn sure contrived that new games start with the worst possible ending from ME1 unless you imported a game. The story has been good, possibly the best ever in a game series. This will be the first time that major decisions from the first game will be carried through and have significant impact on gameplay in the third installment.

[Bailyn242]

bald man in a boat wrote...

Time to find yourself a new hobby Extreme. Mass Effect is clearly too stressful for you. Try Zoloft or yoga, maybe log off for a while and relax. Do you have to type standing up because of all that butt hurt?

Seriously, the tiny violin player that's been providing the sad music to your every post has just filed a grievance with his union due to long hours and no breaks. It's a game, ease up on the poor waaa-mbulance drivers already.

Cackles with glee.... Post of the Month candidate right there. LMAO greivance with the union...


....walks off still snickering.

[Foolsfolly]

didymos1120 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

It removes the indoctrination of the geth.

They weren't indoctrinated.  One, by definition, indoctrination only applies to organics. That's what the technology is for: manipulating organics.  Two, Legion says, on multiple occassions, that they chose to follow Sovereign:

"Every sapient has the right to make their own decisions. The heretics chose a path that prohibits coexistence."

"Not every judgment made by the heretics was as poor as their aiding Sovereign."

"The heretics desired to leave. We understood their reasons. We allowed it. There was peace between us."

"Geth build our own future. The heretics asked the Old Machines to give them the future.

A sentient reasoning species thought Sovereign was a god and followed it blindly. That sounds like indoctrination to me. The indoctrinated Cerberus crew worshiped the derelict reaper and called it a god as well. The husked miners in ME1 worshiped a Reaper item, Garrus even saying he's heard of these tech-cults.

Legion never mentions gods or geth worshipping. The heretics on the Exogeni colony are clearly seen worshiping a Reaper item, like the husks in that other side quest. He does not think Sovereign was a god, just an Old Machine.

I think the heretics are indoctrinated.

And the rewrite removes it. I guess we'll find out once and for all in ME3 but I think there's enough information availible now to assume it, similar to the rachni being indoctrinated and causing the Rachni Wars.

[Bailyn242]

Saphra Deden wrote...

jbadm04 wrote...

I still dont get it why someone could symphatize with Cerberus.

I don't understand how someone couldn't. Think with your head and not your heart. TIM has noble goals and a smart methodology. I respect him.

I can understand his motivations and still not sympathize with him. Add his regular failures as a leader and as an executive and I sure as hell can't respect him. This is the man whose sole defense seems to be "they went rogue", that sounds a lot like "demons made me do it". Other than Lazarus, the bulk of his actions have been epic failures and when taken into context Lazarus is a success for humanity and an abject failure for Cerberus since he lost control of the single successful project in his portfolio. 

Heck, if I'm one of his financial backers and getting reports on the projects I'm either shutting down funding or moving to setup something that works better and has a better success rate. Even if I'm human centric and want to dominate the galaxy I still don't want him in charge. He has done more harm to humanity than he has to any other race. The guy is a waste of funding from a financial stance, his most recent failures lead to the loss of a dozen projects and all the assets associated with them. We're talking deep cover assets that I was relying on to keep tabs on what the government was doing. Top it off with the Reaper's getting info on every biotic to go through the Grissom Academy and I'm pretty honked off with the guy.

[didymos1120]

Foolsfolly wrote...


A sentient reasoning species thought Sovereign was a god and followed it blindly. That sounds like indoctrination to me.

No, a tiny portion of a sentient reasoning species followed Sovereign in exchange for technology (something Legion also tells you in addition to the many, many times you are told the heretics CHOSE their path).  If they'd been hacked or something (because again, indoctrination is ONLY something done to organics. See the codex entry about it), why did only the smallest fragment of the total geth population accept Sovereign's offer?  Because that's what it was: an offer. Legion tells you that too:

Legion: "Nazara -- the entity you called Sovereign -- signaled us. Like the geth, the Old Machine listened to organic radio transmissions. It knew of our war against the creators. Nazara contacted many species over the millennia, seeking allies."

Shepard: "Some of the geth followed Sovereign. The 'heretics.'"

Legion: "The heretics accepted their technology. The Old Machines offered to give us our future. The geth will achieve their own future."

This "blindly" notion is something you've added in yourself.  The games do not support it, just as they don't support the notion of the heretic geth being "indoctrinated".

Modifié par didymos1120, 23 avril 2011 - 12:13 .

[Foolsfolly]

No, a tiny portion of a sentient reasoning species followed Sovereign in exchange for technology (something Legion also tells you in addition to the many, many times you are told the heretics CHOSE their path).

And Saren thought he agreed to save organics. Reapers lie and use. I still think they were indoctrinated. But you think they weren't. I'm not challenging you I just believe they were. And since i believe that then that's a positive for the rewrite.

But if I'm right and it has an adverse affect on the true geth then it may indoctrinate the whole of the geth.

It's what I think the rewrite is better and I think the heretics were indoctrinated. After all if they can indoctrinate organic brains seemingly without much effort than think of how easy it is to do the same to non-organic minds.

[Foolsfolly]

This "blindly" notion is something you've added in yourself.

They followed an Organic to war. And according to Saren Sovereign only showed them disdain and disgust. He used the geth as a tool and would soon discard them. The geth aren't stupid they would have noticed that Sovereign was disgusted by them.

[ExtremeOne]

Bailyn242 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
I am sorry but a Man and his company spends 4 Billion credits to bring back Shepard and give him a new Ship and now after ME 2 he is back to be a evil bastard . I am not buying it at all . If he was after Shepard he would have never brought him back to start with . Bioware is making Cerberus the fall guys because the reaper story is stupid and has a bunch of dumb crap in it . So they need a enemy that will make ME 3 not look so f**king stupid .  

Not true Cerberus' character has been all over the board since day one. I mean...

ME1 Cerberus = An agency so incompetent that they have earned the Umbrella Corp. seal of approval.

ME2 Cerberus = We don't play by the rules but we are the only ones trying to save the galaxy from the Reapers

Book Cerberus = That + we really don't like aliens, what a bunch of savages.

ME3 = Hurr Durr I am evul for no aparant raisin...

OMG Fry is the lead writer for ME3.

You're saying that killing colonists and marines for experiments, admirals trying to stop them, experiments on kids like Jack, making Paul Greyson husk, torturing David in Overlord, everything that Kei Leng did is NOT evil to you?!

Also Cerberus was ALWAYS incompetent.
Did you forget the failures of Overlord and Jack? Hell even a Lazarus Project was almost a failure.

   



I am sorry but Bioware is retconing Cerberus and its bull sh*t and someone needs to call them out for the sorry ass story telling they are doing . Cerberus brought Shepard back and now you tell me they want him dead . That makes no sense at all. what is worse they refuse to discuss at all . Its becoming clear why they turned Cerberus against Shepard. They have no reason for it so they are going to hide it . 

Wrong, you had played the Cerberus Lackey and racist line because you like playing "Bad Guys aka Bad Asses". The ME2 plotholes had you hoping you could do that and get the warm and fuzzies at the end of it all, like you were some "good guy" or antihero and now that your assumptions have been destroyed you want to ****** and moan about it.

Get a grip, you knew Cerberus was nasty and villainous from the first game, you chose to jump on the TIM is cools band wagon and are pissed that that choice is gonna bite you in the ass. TIM has been portrayed and a villain from the git go but BW did a masterful job of making him just excusable enough that you could convince yourself that you were making the right choice. 

BW games have had this element to them since Baldur's Gate for crying out loud, let alone Kotor. They understand that some gamers want to be bad and others want to be heros. Accept that you are a bad guy and revel in it, don't ****** and moan that your villainy has been exposed. We have yet to learn anything other than TIM is after us in ME3, nothing about why, nor about what the differences will be between the CB choices, keep or destroy? So what say we hold off on whinging for about 5 months and we'll find out how they did.

The very complaints you have about this issue are ones I raised in regards to ME2, it was forced and contrived that I could gain no traction as a paragon with the Alliance or the Council. It was for damn sure contrived that new games start with the worst possible ending from ME1 unless you imported a game. The story has been good, possibly the best ever in a game series. This will be the first time that major decisions from the first game will be carried through and have significant impact on gameplay in the third installment.

     








Yeah I have no problem playing the Bad Ass or Bad Guy .  I think the idea of Cerberus turning on Shepard makes no sense. But thats fine the way I see is it. I will now turn on those I am forced to work with in 3 . I will do all I can to destroy them.  

[Ultai]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Bailyn242 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
I am sorry but a Man and his company spends 4 Billion credits to bring back Shepard and give him a new Ship and now after ME 2 he is back to be a evil bastard . I am not buying it at all . If he was after Shepard he would have never brought him back to start with . Bioware is making Cerberus the fall guys because the reaper story is stupid and has a bunch of dumb crap in it . So they need a enemy that will make ME 3 not look so f**king stupid .  

Not true Cerberus' character has been all over the board since day one. I mean...

ME1 Cerberus = An agency so incompetent that they have earned the Umbrella Corp. seal of approval.

ME2 Cerberus = We don't play by the rules but we are the only ones trying to save the galaxy from the Reapers

Book Cerberus = That + we really don't like aliens, what a bunch of savages.

ME3 = Hurr Durr I am evul for no aparant raisin...

OMG Fry is the lead writer for ME3.

You're saying that killing colonists and marines for experiments, admirals trying to stop them, experiments on kids like Jack, making Paul Greyson husk, torturing David in Overlord, everything that Kei Leng did is NOT evil to you?!

Also Cerberus was ALWAYS incompetent.
Did you forget the failures of Overlord and Jack? Hell even a Lazarus Project was almost a failure.

   



I am sorry but Bioware is retconing Cerberus and its bull sh*t and someone needs to call them out for the sorry ass story telling they are doing . Cerberus brought Shepard back and now you tell me they want him dead . That makes no sense at all. what is worse they refuse to discuss at all . Its becoming clear why they turned Cerberus against Shepard. They have no reason for it so they are going to hide it . 

Wrong, you had played the Cerberus Lackey and racist line because you like playing "Bad Guys aka Bad Asses". The ME2 plotholes had you hoping you could do that and get the warm and fuzzies at the end of it all, like you were some "good guy" or antihero and now that your assumptions have been destroyed you want to ****** and moan about it.

Get a grip, you knew Cerberus was nasty and villainous from the first game, you chose to jump on the TIM is cools band wagon and are pissed that that choice is gonna bite you in the ass. TIM has been portrayed and a villain from the git go but BW did a masterful job of making him just excusable enough that you could convince yourself that you were making the right choice. 

BW games have had this element to them since Baldur's Gate for crying out loud, let alone Kotor. They understand that some gamers want to be bad and others want to be heros. Accept that you are a bad guy and revel in it, don't ****** and moan that your villainy has been exposed. We have yet to learn anything other than TIM is after us in ME3, nothing about why, nor about what the differences will be between the CB choices, keep or destroy? So what say we hold off on whinging for about 5 months and we'll find out how they did.

The very complaints you have about this issue are ones I raised in regards to ME2, it was forced and contrived that I could gain no traction as a paragon with the Alliance or the Council. It was for damn sure contrived that new games start with the worst possible ending from ME1 unless you imported a game. The story has been good, possibly the best ever in a game series. This will be the first time that major decisions from the first game will be carried through and have significant impact on gameplay in the third installment.

     








Yeah I have no problem playing the Bad Ass or Bad Guy .  I think the idea of Cerberus turning on Shepard makes no sense. But thats fine the way I see is it. I will now turn on those I am forced to work with in 3 . I will do all I can to destroy them.  

You will do what the devs allow you to do.  I'm sure you'll do all you can to kill your squadmates to enact some silly revenge on Bioware, but I doubt your Shepard will enjoy watching them die.

[ExtremeOne]

Ultai wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Bailyn242 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
I am sorry but a Man and his company spends 4 Billion credits to bring back Shepard and give him a new Ship and now after ME 2 he is back to be a evil bastard . I am not buying it at all . If he was after Shepard he would have never brought him back to start with . Bioware is making Cerberus the fall guys because the reaper story is stupid and has a bunch of dumb crap in it . So they need a enemy that will make ME 3 not look so f**king stupid .  

Not true Cerberus' character has been all over the board since day one. I mean...

ME1 Cerberus = An agency so incompetent that they have earned the Umbrella Corp. seal of approval.

ME2 Cerberus = We don't play by the rules but we are the only ones trying to save the galaxy from the Reapers

Book Cerberus = That + we really don't like aliens, what a bunch of savages.

ME3 = Hurr Durr I am evul for no aparant raisin...

OMG Fry is the lead writer for ME3.

You're saying that killing colonists and marines for experiments, admirals trying to stop them, experiments on kids like Jack, making Paul Greyson husk, torturing David in Overlord, everything that Kei Leng did is NOT evil to you?!

Also Cerberus was ALWAYS incompetent.
Did you forget the failures of Overlord and Jack? Hell even a Lazarus Project was almost a failure.

   



I am sorry but Bioware is retconing Cerberus and its bull sh*t and someone needs to call them out for the sorry ass story telling they are doing . Cerberus brought Shepard back and now you tell me they want him dead . That makes no sense at all. what is worse they refuse to discuss at all . Its becoming clear why they turned Cerberus against Shepard. They have no reason for it so they are going to hide it . 

Wrong, you had played the Cerberus Lackey and racist line because you like playing "Bad Guys aka Bad Asses". The ME2 plotholes had you hoping you could do that and get the warm and fuzzies at the end of it all, like you were some "good guy" or antihero and now that your assumptions have been destroyed you want to ****** and moan about it.

Get a grip, you knew Cerberus was nasty and villainous from the first game, you chose to jump on the TIM is cools band wagon and are pissed that that choice is gonna bite you in the ass. TIM has been portrayed and a villain from the git go but BW did a masterful job of making him just excusable enough that you could convince yourself that you were making the right choice. 

BW games have had this element to them since Baldur's Gate for crying out loud, let alone Kotor. They understand that some gamers want to be bad and others want to be heros. Accept that you are a bad guy and revel in it, don't ****** and moan that your villainy has been exposed. We have yet to learn anything other than TIM is after us in ME3, nothing about why, nor about what the differences will be between the CB choices, keep or destroy? So what say we hold off on whinging for about 5 months and we'll find out how they did.

The very complaints you have about this issue are ones I raised in regards to ME2, it was forced and contrived that I could gain no traction as a paragon with the Alliance or the Council. It was for damn sure contrived that new games start with the worst possible ending from ME1 unless you imported a game. The story has been good, possibly the best ever in a game series. This will be the first time that major decisions from the first game will be carried through and have significant impact on gameplay in the third installment.

     








Yeah I have no problem playing the Bad Ass or Bad Guy .  I think the idea of Cerberus turning on Shepard makes no sense. But thats fine the way I see is it. I will now turn on those I am forced to work with in 3 . I will do all I can to destroy them.  

You will do what the devs allow you to do.  I'm sure you'll do all you can to kill your squadmates to enact some silly revenge on Bioware, but I doubt your Shepard will enjoy watching them die.

  






No its called not using certain things in a game that a developer gives you to use . In this case I will not use the good guys in ME 3 .  

[didymos1120]

ExtremeOne wrote...

No its called not using certain things in a game that a developer gives you to use . In this case I will not use the good guys in ME 3 .  

Why do you think anyone CARES about this? I will be vastly amused if they're forced into your squad at some point, however. It's fairly likely to happen, too, since we know some characters are more plot-central than others and Ash/Kaidan were saved specifically for ME3.

[Tilarta]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Which is kinda unsupported by our presentation of just about every single other cell we ever come across. 

The biggest thing about Cerberus, from its members, is that it isn't micromanaged, controlled directly, or anything of that sort. It's like EDI makes one claim, and pretty much every demonstration otherwise doesn't fit.

Neither does only a dozen projects at once, when we seem to run across half of them in the two games and yet 'many more projects' are shut down in Retribution, with many more still remaining.

I can only speak to what EDI told me, which was "that more then a dozen active operations at once strains TIM's ability to multitask".

That could be interpreted many different ways, of course.

When a project is completed, a new one could be added to the list to replace it.

Therefore, active cells are the ones that are still "work in progress".
If a project is brought to a point where the work is complete or the individual staff can manage it by themselves, it might not be counted as an active cell.

Or if a project has not yet reached a point where productive results are coming from the cell, it might not be counted as active.

So, concievably, Cerberus could be running more then a dozen operations if the above conditions were to be applied.

[Labrev]

I gotta say, it's more than a little hilarious when people say "I don't understand, he brought me back to life. He said I was an asset. How can he be my enemy?" Especially if you kept the Collector base, then I think he more/less got what he wanted out of the 4 billion he spent on you.

You can't go about blaming Bioware for your own decision to trust TIM. Especially when you, as Shepard, were warned countless times about Cerberus' history of betrayal. Who's to say that in ME3 you won't find that Cerberus is up to no good and you need to put a stop to whatever they are trying to do?

It seems to me that TIM likes to employ a classic "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach to things. Zaeed himself says that he killed over 50 Cerberus operatives that he can remember. In ME1, you were his enemy, and at the start of ME2 it is assumed that you were regardless of whether or not you even played ME1.

Doesn't sound like a "retcon" to me. More like a cunning tactic by a manipulative individual. Make your enemies think they're your friends, (optional: and use them for something you need), then stab them in the back.

[Thompson family]

Re: OP

TIM was "villianized" before Shep ever met him. He's a bad man. Get over it.

[TomY90]

For Me I am not surprised considering i did the following

I got Their Best Agent To Turn Against Him and quit (Miranda Lawson), Took the normandy from them and blew up the collector base which to me is a huge screamer to being an enemy

But I do agree that I do not get why cerberus hunts you afterwards if you did saved the collectors base but I am sure they will explain it (Bioware Never make plot mistakes so far in my opinion)

but everyone except Miranda, Jacob and Joker did pretty much say cerberus will be friendly to you until you no longer help them get what they want they will turn on you.

[Gabey5]

Volus Warlord wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Sending children to biotic deathcamps isn't villainous enough for you?

He was not directly involved in that. Besides, the knowledge they were seeking could've been a huge asset to humanity.

This thread is about how Shepard and TIM will become enemies, not some self-righteous goodie two shoes nonsense like that.

hitler wasn't directly involved in teh German death camps either, but he is the head as is TIM

[xSTONEYx187x]

It's kinda simple.

Save the base, TIM doesn't need you.

Destroy the base, TIM is pissed off at you, made a deal with the Reapers, like Saren did, and is an agent of the Reapers now.

[Destroy Raiden_]

TIM doesn't need extra help in being villainized his past projects in ME give him all the vili****ng he needs the only thing he needs for ME3 is the why he wants to destroy what he's more or less created sense we know all of shep's skeleton is Cerberus metal and tech who knows what more is being taken up by bare minimum nanomachines?

I think it could be one of several most of which we've seen floating around by now

TIM was wrong about control

In a twist TIM finds out the implants he put inside of him will allow the reapers to use him as a puppet and the control chip he put as a backup for this potential or even planned scenario won't do much if anything to stop shep fully at worse the chip will allow for tim to only be able to gain 1% control of shep if a reaper is already controlling him and TIM wants shep dead to stop him from reaping the humans. He allowed for the tech to go into shep but he thought that his chip would allow for 100% override of reaper control therefore making shep a sleeper agent so cerberus once he is taken in by the reapers TIM would've turned on the chip and controlled shep to destroy the reapers instead but as he found out through some means this won't be the case so shep now must be killed and reprogrammed.

TIM is a reaper and was wrong about Wilson

TIM is the hidden saren 2.0 of the galaxy. He is just a shell like saren was and his reaper form is near him most likely being obscured by the fake exploding star right behind him that image is a screen only and once turned off he would be able to swivel around and see the reaper and or puppet TIM has been transmitting from a reaper this whole time and the image is real. Either way he gets shep's body by deceiving Liara and gains more soldiers by saying they're pro human group and want humans to succeed at all cost. IE the message is a fake a lie all humans signing up are either the best of the best or made via tech to be it thats why they don't shun biotics or cyborgs they want it all. There people along with the Asarai and the Hanar and possibly the Batarians will be the foot soldiers in ME3 the mindless puppets fighting in a war for their makers and shep's tech has failed he can't be controlled by the chip sense Wilson didn't connect it properly. Wilson also figured out the techs future reaper control consequences and made changes partly to mess with tim partly so the SB could gain control of shep. Wilson died because he betrayed TIM but not in the way Miranda laid it out. So TIM needs to reprogram shep.

Shep is indoctrinated and TIM wants control

This is similar to the first but shep has become indoctrinated via constant reaper exposure and is unknowingly aiding the reapers in small ways before they pull him to aid them in bigger things. TIM didn't' put that chip in and now regrets it and so sends troops to get shep to put that chip in so he can control shep for his own sake.

TIM is indoctrinated

According to accounts TIM had a nasty run in with an artifact that turns people into husks but he's only half husk but the reapers coming closer to him is causing him to become full husk but he is advanced he would be the first husk to speak and have some kind of mind even if the mind will now only fallow reaper directives. He like the reapers now want shep so they can control him by either inserting the chip TIM left out or getting him for reprogramming. TIM is nothing but an arm of the reapers now instead of the head of Cerberus.

[trobbins777]

If i may give my input i believe that TIM will try and stop Shepard from aiding aliens during this war. Why? because he wants a pyrrhic victory against the reapers. Pyrrhic meaning at the cost of the rest of the alien species, Which would let humanity dominate the galaxy. Now as paragon Shepard you're not willing to pay that price, and as renegade Shep you think the illusive man is delusional to think humanity can win without their help. Either way Cerberus wants to stop you. So it's nothing personal. You're just in their way.

[AngelicMachinery]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

TIM will always be the savior of humanity in my eyes, no matter how much bioware tries to pigeon hole him into a cat stroking bond villain.

You know you're just captivated by Martin Sheen's hypnotic voice. I can't blame you, it took everything i had to resist

This is true, his voice is wonderful...

[Seboist]

laecraft wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Who's to say that in ME3 you won't find that Cerberus is up to no good and you need to put a stop to whatever they are trying to do?

If all TIM wanted was the base, wouldn't he spend more time convincing Shepard that the base needs to be kept? Say something about it before he goes to that mission? And now he wants to kill Shepard, because - why? Because he doesn't need him? If not need him anymore, why bother with him at all? Does TIM have unlimited resources to waste or what? It's very inconsistent of him. No one spends that much money without hoping that it might pay back, somehow. Without intending to gain something very, very valuable at the end - something that would cover all the expenses. Shepard's corpse is really not that valuable.

People are wondering at Cerberus' motivation because it doesn't make sense, economically. And because we still don't know what Cerberus really wants.

TIM was actually counting on the base being destroyed up until the final moments when EDI sent him the hacked schematics showing that it could be preserved intact.

This whole Cerberus turning on Shepard is so arbitary that it's appalling. Even if the CB is destroyed there was an impication of further cooperation; Shepard has the dialogue option "You're on MY team now" and then there's TIM saying "DON"T TURN YOUR BACK ON ME!!!".

[Labrev]

laecraft wrote...

Because I'm busy with the Reapers. The galaxy is at stake, and I can't be distracted by insignificant things like an overly ambitious organisation. Besides, it's not Shepard who's against Cerberus, it's Cerberus who's after Shepard.

However strong Shepard may be or seem to the game-player, he's just one man. On a big-scale, his death doesn't doom the galaxy to certain-extinction. Cerberus coming after Shepard may be a pre-emptive strike, knowing that what they are doing would cause him to come after them. What if Cerberus activates the human-reaper again and decides that it
is in humanity's best interest that Cerberus uses it to make themselves
stronger? No way that flies with Shepard, he fought/is fighting to end
the Reapers.

It's possible that Cerberus will exploit the Reaper invasion to secure their own dominance, or maybe attempt to do so after the dust settles. Maybe TIM will try to strike a deal with the Reapers (Saren 2.0 theory, although I don't see it myself)

Why does Cerberus need a damn good reason to hunt Shepard down? Because hunting down Shepard is HARD.

Just think about it for a moment. Think about all the enemies Shepard had taken out. Think of all the impossible things Shepard had accomplished. TIM, more than anyone else, knows just what he's trying to kill here. Hell, that's the entire reason why TIM brought Shepard back. He knew exactly WHAT he was bringing back to life.

Think of all the resources you'd have to squander - in vain - on the slim hope that one of your agents might give Shepard a scratch.

Like I said, possibly a pre-emptive strike. If they have a strong feeling that Shepard will come after them, they have to at least try to get him first.

What TIM brought back to life was a highly-successful former Alliance commander to lead a high-risk military operation. But at the end of the day, Shepard is still mortal. He died once already. In some cases, he dies at the end of ME2. Theoretically, he dies several times through the game before he's finally successful. It's not like TIM knows that he's in a video-game and Shepard has infinite lives.

And that is after TIM has invested the MAJORITY of Cerberus money into Shepard's resurrection and reconstruction of Normandy! Shepard is Cerberus' biggest investment - a major, long-term one, not a local one. Economically speaking, Shepard IS Cerberus. Why would Cerberus start acting suicidal?

If he winds up with the Collector Base in the end, then I'd say that he definitely got good use out of that money.

If all TIM wanted was the base, wouldn't he spend more time convincing Shepard that the base needs to be kept? Say something about it before he goes to that mission? And now he wants to kill Shepard, because - why? Because he doesn't need him? If not need him anymore, why bother with him at all? Does TIM have unlimited resources to waste or what? It's very inconsistent of him. No one spends that much money without hoping that it might pay back, somehow. Without intending to gain something very, very valuable at the end - something that would cover all the expenses. Shepard's corpse is really not that valuable.

Trickery. If TIM tries to convince Shepard before the mission that they need to keep the base, he's showing his hand completely. (1) It quickly becomes clear what he is really after -- making Cerberus stronger by reaping the collector technology. He doesn't do so in the game though, and so it genuinely seems like he's really trying to stop the collectors. No other possible explanation exists. (2) Shepard may realize this and so it doesn't jive with him. TIM may be forced to compromise in ways that he doesn't want to. (3) The more time Shepard has to think about it, the higher the liklihood he'll figure that it's not a good idea.

By springing it on him at the last minute and making it seem like an option he hadn't considered, Shepard may fall for it. And make a more rash/impulsive decision. Especially after TIM has played the buddy-act as he has and made Shepard think that he really is an ally. TIM's real failure here was putting the ball entirely in Shepard's court on this decision. But then, it has to be a decision for the game player, so for the sake of the game it happens that way.

Again, Shepard remains a threat to them if Cerberus begins to do things that he would not approve of. If he's dead, they don't need to worry about him getting in their way.