244 réponses à ce sujet

[AngelicMachinery]

TIM doesn't need to be villianized.

[Seboist]

Someone With Mass wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
The reapers said that . TIM wanted to destroy the collectors and reapers so no it makes any sense for him to  now want Shepard dead .  I want a reason as to why and if it is stupid and illogical well then Bioware catch hell  for it and plus it will be seen as anti Cerberus fan service cloacked behind a story plot point 

Anti-Cerberus plot = ME1. Which is very good in my opinion.

It's arguable that Shepard's anti-Cerberus actions in ME1 actually benefits them. He was cleaning house on failed projects and tying up loose ends (killing Kahoku's killers).

[Casuist]

as I've stated previously, Cerberus v. Shepard requires only two conditions:

1) Shepard is a long-term liability for Cerberus goals.

2) Cerberus perceives an end to the Reaper threat that does not involve Shepard's survival.

-Condition 1 is already a reasonable assumption (particularly for completionist playthroughs of ME1 and sole survivor backgrounds).

-Condition 2 is quite likely. While TIM saw significant value in bringing shepard back, the collector ship mission AND the suicide mission make it abundantly clear he/she is considered a disposable asset. Moreover, any solution to the invasion is going to fairly clearly require the involvement of substantial amount of power from the sentient species in the universe.

Our knowledge of the fact that Shepard will probably be involved in a key role is a gaming contrivance.

Far too many people are coming up with semi-plausible reasons to disregard Condition 2.

If, at ANY point, both conditions are met, TIM becomes an enemy.

[KainrycKarr]

ExtremeOne wrote...

MrFob wrote...

Seboist wrote...

MrFob wrote...

IMO "villanizing" TIM would be like setting a sun on fire. It is simply redundant and unnecessary.

He's my hero and my femshep considers it very romantic he spent all that time and money reviving her.

Have you read the books? He is a self righteous, sadistic, unscrupulous individual. His obsession with humanities superiority is a façade and most of the time leads him to fight against "fellow" humans. Judge him by his actions rather then his words.

   




So are we really going to say the books and comics are cannon . Bioware just needs a escape goat because the reaper story is a joke  

A what?

[KainrycKarr]

thurmanator692 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

MrFob wrote...

Seboist wrote...

MrFob wrote...

IMO "villanizing" TIM would be like setting a sun on fire. It is simply redundant and unnecessary.

He's my hero and my femshep considers it very romantic he spent all that time and money reviving her.

Have you read the books? He is a self righteous, sadistic, unscrupulous individual. His obsession with humanities superiority is a façade and most of the time leads him to fight against "fellow" humans. Judge him by his actions rather then his words.

   




So are we really going to say the books and comics are cannon . Bioware just needs a escape goat because the reaper story is a joke  

A what?

A goat you ride to get away from places

I see. And here I thought he meant scapegoat.....

[000110011]

Thinking about it, I don't think TIM is necessarily going to be a villain. I don't think he's trying to kill you at all. He just wants the galaxy to think he is. He needs Shepard as a hero, able to unite the galaxy against the threat posed by the Reapers. He says it himself, diplomacy is difficult when everybody thinks you're a threat: as long as Shepard is associated with Cerberus, he can't be freely uniting the galaxy. By making a public show of trying to kill him, he severs the link between them, freeing Shepard from the immediate connection to what's widely considered a terrorist organization.

[Dave666]

ExtremeOne wrote...
So are we really going to say the books and comics are cannon . 

 You might not like it, but Bioware says otherwise, just look at Liara, they changed her character between ME:1 and ME:2 and use a comic to explain why. (The ingame explanation we got was very flimsy).

[kuoleman]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Nope

Totally OT, but thanks for having me laughing myself to tears for the last 20 minutes.

Also, books are canon, it's not a matter for debate. Now whether you want to believe TIM had a complete character change from Ascension to ME2 and then back to Retribution, is completely you're prerogative. But I can't wrap my head around that one.

[ExtremeOne]

Dave666 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
So are we really going to say the books and comics are cannon . 

 You might not like it, but Bioware says otherwise, just look at Liara, they changed her character between ME:1 and ME:2 and use a comic to explain why. (The ingame explanation we got was very flimsy).

  







Yeah thats true but I at least can still be a  renegade in 3 and I plan on being a pure renegade in it . yeah I will save the Earth and humanity  but the alliance crew members like ashley and kaiden and that guy Sanders will rot on the ship . in 3 . silience will be the way to say F U . 

[Arijharn]

trobbins777 wrote...

If i may give my input i believe that TIM will try and stop Shepard from aiding aliens during this war. Why? because he wants a pyrrhic victory against the reapers. Pyrrhic meaning at the cost of the rest of the alien species, Which would let humanity dominate the galaxy. Now as paragon Shepard you're not willing to pay that price, and as renegade Shep you think the illusive man is delusional to think humanity can win without their help. Either way Cerberus wants to stop you. So it's nothing personal. You're just in their way.

I like this theory a bit, but I think it fails on one principle: You don't give TIM any credit.

Love him or hate him, TIM isn't a stupid man. He's a manipulator and probably (as in; more likely than not) to have a good grasp of the technological and physical assets available to the species in regards to meeting and dealing with the Reaper threat.

[Red Panda]

Cerberus = Villans
Nah, they just don't get enough hugs, just like T.I.M.

[Mister Ford]

000110011 wrote...

Thinking about it, I don't think TIM is necessarily going to be a villain. I don't think he's trying to kill you at all. He just wants the galaxy to think he is. He needs Shepard as a hero, able to unite the galaxy against the threat posed by the Reapers. He says it himself, diplomacy is difficult when everybody thinks you're a threat: as long as Shepard is associated with Cerberus, he can't be freely uniting the galaxy. By making a public show of trying to kill him, he severs the link between them, freeing Shepard from the immediate connection to what's widely considered a terrorist organization.

This is an interesting idea, makes more sense than any other speculation I've read.  He knows the Council and the rest of the galaxy aren't about to follow Cerberus' lead, and what better way to prove Shepard is no longer with Cerberus than by trying to kill him. And we know he certainly wouldn't hesitate to sacrfice some Cerberus foot soldiers by sending them against Shepard. 

I had an idea that I'm not really sold on, but it came from a convesation with Tali.  She says Shepard is Cerberus' best weapon, but as soon as that's no longer the case, they'll get rid of him.  It seems a little tough to believe, but maybe it's as simple that TIM no longer feels he needs Shepard, maybe he has something else up his sleeve.  (yeah I don't really buy it either, but who knows?)

[ExtremeOne]

I still think its a load of Sh*t . I hope Bioware has Garrus and Wrex or Grunt as squad mates then I can deal with the alliance bull sh*t so long as I do not need to use any of the alliance squad mates .

[daxmeister]

Seboist wrote...

TIM will always be the savior of humanity in my eyes, no matter how much bioware tries to pigeon hole him into a cat stroking bond villain.

Same. The Illusive Man is way too clever to let some petty revenge (if you destroyed the Collector Base) get in the way of saving the universe, and Shepard is the best hope for saving the universe. Sending people to kill him is generally a bad plan.

So I'm guessing that Bioware will have something else going on. I always found the idea of Mr Illusive getting revenge to be incredibly stupid, and that only works for if you kept the Base, anyway. So, I'm guessing it'll be for a good reason. Either he needs to get his hands on some technology in your body, or he's become Saren 2.0, helping the Reapers to try and guarantee the survival of Humanity. Or, y'know, a third option that will seem obvious once it's revealed to us.

[Baihu1983]

He allways was a villian

[Admoniter]

daxmeister wrote...
Same. The Illusive Man is way too clever to let some petty revenge (if you destroyed the Collector Base) get in the way of saving the universe, and Shepard is the best hope for saving the universe. Sending people to kill him is generally a bad plan.

Whether or not he is petty enough to potentially endanger every sentient being out there is debatable. But Retribution shows that he is not above being petty, he even acknowledges it during the Turian attack on the station Grayson was on.

But really I hope there is a much better motive for this than Revenge.

[ExtremeOne]

There has to be a logical reason for .

[ExtremeOne]

Baihu1983 wrote...

He allways was a villian

  


If he was then what ME 2 all about then  

[Eudaemonium]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Baihu1983 wrote...

He allways was a villian

  

If he was then what ME 2 all about then  

Deal with the Devil? Being forced to compromise your morals for the greater good? Working with the enemy (or an enemy)? There are lots of ways to read ME2 that have TIM as a villain still. He's just a villain you have a working relationship with, and he's just a villain, not the villain.

[Baihu1983]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Baihu1983 wrote...

He allways was a villian

  


If he was then what ME 2 all about then  

The base says it all. He wants to use it to strike fear around the whole galaxy. His the last person you want having control of it.