180 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

ReinaHW wrote...

But male Hawke is pretty bland, his beard makes me think of Riker from Star Trek. I half expected him to pose in much the same way.

Even with character advertising, they could have found a way to at least say on the box art for DA2 that the player can choose from the male and female Hawke to play as.
After all not everyone who's bought the game is on these forums and much of the information that came out didn't say much about female Hawke, if anything at all.

I'm hoping with Mass Effect 3 that any advertising, trailers and so on will show those who are new to the series that the game has gender choice, like the previous two, by showing both the female and male Shepard, that it will be made quite clear to avoid the same question being asked on if the game has gender choice.

And that the cover art will, for once, show the female Shepard choice as well.

Having both characters on the box would confuse people that they could be both at the same time. It's happened before.

Because Hawke is Hawke, the gender is pretty incosequential to the how the story plays since anyone can romance anyone it's even more inconsiquantial than usual.

[The Angry One]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Having both characters on the box would confuse people that they could be both at the same time. It's happened before.

Persona 3 Portable wishes to disagree with you.
Nobody was confused, and sales went up because of the female character in this version made apparent on the cover.

Modifié par The Angry One, 24 avril 2011 - 03:53 .

[ReinaHW]

Still I can imagine it must be confusing for those who know nothing about the game only seeing male Hawke on the cover.

It's not like they can just call up the developers and ask "I'm curious about your Dragon Age 2 game, do you choose the gender of the main character or is it male only?" Not everyone uses these boards, not everyone keeps informed on gaming as most of us do.

Without clear information it can be misleading to the buyer.

[AkiKishi]

The Angry One wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Having both characters on the box would confuse people that they could be both at the same time. It's happened before.

Persona 3 Portable wishes to disagree with you.
Nobody was confused, and sales went up because of the female character in this version made apparent on the cover.

News to me the version I had never had a female character. Putting the NPC cast on the cover is fairly normal for JRPGs but it does not mean they are protagonists. If I saw that I'd just think she was another NPC.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 24 avril 2011 - 04:03 .

[AkiKishi]

ReinaHW wrote...

Still I can imagine it must be confusing for those who know nothing about the game only seeing male Hawke on the cover.

It's not like they can just call up the developers and ask "I'm curious about your Dragon Age 2 game, do you choose the gender of the main character or is it male only?" Not everyone uses these boards, not everyone keeps informed on gaming as most of us do.

Without clear information it can be misleading to the buyer.

I honestly don't know that many people who it bothers to that extent. Does it bother men that the characters look nothing like them? 
They used Male Hawke in all the advertising, it ties everything together like I said.

[The Angry One]

BobSmith101 wrote...

News to me the version I had never had a female character. Putting the NPC cast on the cover is fairly normal for JRPGs but it does not mean they are protagonists.

Only the PSP version does, after Atlus listened to it's fans.
The characters in the foreground are meant to be the mains, this is also illustrated even more plainly on the back of the cover.

BobSmith101 wrote...

They used Male Hawke in all the advertising, it ties everything together like I said.

Ties together what? They used an unappealing bearded guy in one trailer.
Newsflash: They did the same with DA:O, only without the beard. The didn't require pasting that guy on the box and elsewhere. It's just not needed.

Modifié par The Angry One, 24 avril 2011 - 04:04 .

[AkiKishi]

The Angry One wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

News to me the version I had never had a female character. Putting the NPC cast on the cover is fairly normal for JRPGs but it does not mean they are protagonists.

Only the PSP version does, after Atlus listened to it's fans.
The characters in the foreground are meant to be the mains, this is also illustrated even more plainly on the back of the cover.

Pretty cool might pick up a copy. Any other noticable differences ? 

I don't think you can read too much into a character being in the foreground though.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 24 avril 2011 - 04:06 .

[ReinaHW]

Not everyone is a old time gamer, many are still new to it. If a new gamer comes across a misleading cover on a game then how will they know that there's any choice in the game if the cover doesn't even indicate something as simple as gender choice?

Male gamers have been catered for a long time, they know they always will be. But gaming isn't a male only hobby, never really has been. Men just tend to be easier to cater to because of old fashioned gender stereotypes.

[The Angry One]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Pretty cool might pick up a copy.

I don't think you can read too much into a character being in the foreground though.

I meant in P3P's case.
Other games have different reasons for foreground characters. For example Ar Tonelico there has always operated on the basis of "Look at this guy surrounded by cute girls!"

[AkiKishi]

The Angry One wrote...
Ties together what? They used an unappealing bearded guy in one trailer.
Newsflash: They did the same with DA:O, only without the beard. The didn't require pasting that guy on the box and elsewhere. It's just not needed.

That guy was a place holder Warden nothing more. He's not in the game. It could be one of the reasons DA2 went for character based advertising.

[Dreadstruck]

The Angry One wrote...
Firstly, I was unaware being choosy was a crime.
Secondly, quantity <<< quality.
Thirdly, specifically what will guarantee my non-purchase of a game is when a developer says that they would totally do a female character, but they don't have the time or resources.
If they don't have the time or resources to bother with my gender then I don't have the time or resources to bother with their game.

Nobody is accusing you of any crime, I was just wondering because I've noticed how you've been... rather uptight about the whole gender thing, throwing the word misogynyst left and right, and even accusing some developers of it.

Hell, I have nothing againts a female narrative, my first BG2 character was female elf Kensai/Mage, but this whole "uptight drama queen" and going nuts about it doesn't really seem to help your cause. IMHO.

Still more power to ya, I wish you luck in your struggle. Whatever it may be.

BTW: Anyway, if it were up to me, I would write off both Male or Female off the cover and leave only the logo. Worked well with Origins.

That guy was a place holder
Warden nothing more. He's not in the game. It could be one of the
reasons DA2 went for character based advertising.

Yes, I recall him. When people wanted him to be a playable preset, I remember the devs stating that he's just "supposed to represent your Warden, nothing else"

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 24 avril 2011 - 04:12 .

[AkiKishi]

The Angry One wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Pretty cool might pick up a copy.

I don't think you can read too much into a character being in the foreground though.

I meant in P3P's case.
Other games have different reasons for foreground characters. For example Ar Tonelico there has always operated on the basis of "Look at this guy surrounded by cute girls!"

And for anyone who does not know that ?

[The Angry One]

BobSmith101 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Ties together what? They used an unappealing bearded guy in one trailer.
Newsflash: They did the same with DA:O, only without the beard. The didn't require pasting that guy on the box and elsewhere. It's just not needed.

That guy was a place holder Warden nothing more. He's not in the game. It could be one of the reasons DA2 went for character based advertising.

True, but to me Beard!Hawke is a placeholder Hawke and nothing more.
Also only females get the red eyes. Keke.

Point is DA:O didn't need a posterboy, and sold well. The cover didn't make people jump to conclusions. It, like TES' covers, show a minimalist design that draws you in and makes you investigate.
DAII's cover shows Generic Fantasy Action Hero #132/A ready for action! That appeals to some, sure. But it may alienate others.

[Dreadstruck]

The Angry One wrote...

True, but to me Beard!Hawke is a placeholder Hawke and nothing more.
Also only females get the red eyes. Keke.

Point is DA:O didn't need a posterboy, and sold well. The cover didn't make people jump to conclusions. It, like TES' covers, show a minimalist design that draws you in and makes you investigate.
DAII's cover shows Generic Fantasy Action Hero #132/A ready for action! That appeals to some, sure. But it may alienate others.

You have to blame the marketing department then, not the whole male counterpart in other games. That sounds awfully misandrist.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 24 avril 2011 - 04:13 .

[The Angry One]

Avalla'ch wrote...

Nobody is accusing you of any crime, I was just wondering because I've noticed how you've been... rather uptight about the whole gender thing, throwing the word misogynyst left and right, and even accusing some developers of it.

Im not uptight. I don't care about God of War or whatever for instance.
But again, if a developer gives stupid excuses as to why they don't put in female characters, if they don't have the decency to say "Okay well look we envisioned a specific male character for this role" then I won't give them the time of day.
"We're totally hip with the female thing but we just didn't have time!" has become the excuse de jure among some developers (hi, Obsidian!) and I won't tolerate it.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

ReinaHW wrote...

A female lead saving the day is more interesting because it's so rare when compared to a male lead being the hero, which has been done to death in all forms of the media for avery long time.

How does that inherently determine the quality of a story? "A male hero saving the day." is a rather superficial summary for even the simplest story ( as is a female character version ); it doesn't tell you anything about the story itself, and frankly, I don't know how I feel about getting told that the inherent presence of my gender reduces a game's quality potential. 

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 24 avril 2011 - 04:16 .

[NICKjnp]

I wouldn't mind Biowares next game to have a female as the character that is marketed. I just don't see the point in insulting the gender or demanding that the marketing be changed of an existing game or game franchise.

[The Angry One]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

ReinaHW wrote...

A female lead saving the day is more interesting because it's so rare when compared to a male lead being the hero, which has been done to death in all forms of the media for avery long time.

How does that inherently determine the quality of a story? "A male hero saving the day." is a rather superficial summary for even the simplest story ( as is a female character version ); it doesn't tell you anything about the story itself, and frankly, I don't know how I feel about getting told that the inherent presence of my gender reduces a game's quality potential. 

Welcome to market saturation.
The same reason why people are sick of the same 5 dudes saving the day in Hollywood "blockbusters".

[ReinaHW]

After almost thirty years of gaming and having to put up with 'Only this man can save the day!!!!!' nonsense then I find male leads can undermine a game's quality because it brings nothing new, nothing different that hasn't already been done so many times over the decades.

Whereas something simple like 'This person may be the only one who can save the day' and saying that the player character can be male or female, depending on player choice, can be more inviting rather than eye rolling boring.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

The Angry One wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

ReinaHW wrote...

A female lead saving the day is more interesting because it's so rare when compared to a male lead being the hero, which has been done to death in all forms of the media for avery long time.

How does that inherently determine the quality of a story? "A male hero saving the day." is a rather superficial summary for even the simplest story ( as is a female character version ); it doesn't tell you anything about the story itself, and frankly, I don't know how I feel about getting told that the inherent presence of my gender reduces a game's quality potential. 

Welcome to market saturation.
The same reason why people are sick of the same 5 dudes saving the day in Hollywood "blockbusters".

Ah, I wasn't aware that:

-- the market had enough of my gender

-- my gender is at fault for cliche writing/stock characters.

[The Angry One]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Ah, I wasn't aware that:

-- the market had enough of my gender

-- my gender is at fault for cliche writing/stock characters.

To be frank if 95% of all games push "30 something white male hero saves the universe with his manliness!" then yes, a chunk of the market IS going to be sick of that.
Call it misandry if you want, but familiarity breeds contempt.

[Maderek]

Regardless of who you played as, the game would still suck.

And I don't understand these Male/Fem Hawke arguments. They're the same goddamn thing, voice acting is even equally good.

Modifié par Maderek, 24 avril 2011 - 04:28 .

[JabbaDaHutt30]

The Angry One wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Ah, I wasn't aware that:

-- the market had enough of my gender

-- my gender is at fault for cliche writing/stock characters.

To be frank if 95% of all games push "30 something white male hero saves the universe with his manliness!" then yes, a chunk of the market IS going to be sick of that.
Call it misandry if you want, but familiarity breeds contempt.

I can tell you for certain that my gender has never written anything like that ( nor has it ever tried to save the universe with its manliness ).

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 24 avril 2011 - 04:28 .

[ReinaHW]

Got enough of that in the 80s with a lot of action movies. It didn't take long to be sick of it.

The first time I heard the name Hawke, my first thought was of the old 1980s action movies, one in particular called Flash Gorden. That movie was hammy, cheesy, corny, and just plain cliche. I half expected there to be some really bad song and voices calling out 'Hawke! Aaaaaa! He's incredible!' just like in that movie with the Flash Gorden song.

Even more so when they showed the male Hawke more often than the female Hawke. The rugged, handsome male Hawke and his wonder beard, all it needed was some really bad song in a 1980s cliche saying 'Hawke! Aaaaa! He's incredible!' and that would have been a prime example of how badly marketing in the video game industry needs to grow up and move on from the cliches of male leads and male catering.
Just as it already needs to.

I hope they won't do that with ME3 - 'John Shepard! Aaaaa! He's incredible!' with the tag lines - 'The chin, the manly short hair, he is incredible. Press a button to make something awesome happen!'
I can picture it already*shudders*

[grizzlan]

I think this whole debate is irrelevant, as a "old gamer." I came to that was of thinking by being a new gamer once upon a midnight dreary. Angry one, good luck with your purchase choices. Those choices are the ones that influence the market. I got Da: O knowing that because it was a bioware game that it would have interchangable protagonists. It did not make the main character of gods of wars story any less interesting to me because of lack of gender choice. His story was a sad one because of the life he led. Nor did it make Laura Crofts adventures any less interesting, at least not being lead dog left me with more pleasant scenery to look at. Though for the most part her adventures seemed more shallow story wise. To get back to my point, as long as you enjoy the game. Gender is irrelevant, and to continue to beat this dead horse (while calory burning) is pointless.