244 réponses à ce sujet

[mykeme]

If you really can't tell the difference between a few people disliking a game (which is applicable everywhere) and the amount of criticism DA2 is receiving, then I suggest you get your perceptive faculties checked.

[FedericoV]

MorrigansLove wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

I have not read your post and I wont since it's a wall of text. But I must point out that reading the title and seeing the content (especially the I wont' read any reply disclaimer) is really comical. I mean, you put a lot of effort to show your "lack of interest". Very emo. Thanks for the good laugh.

How extremely immature. <_<

Look, the original post was the zenith of immaturity. From the "I wont' read any reply because you do not agree completely with me" disclaimer to the "I don't care anymore about the series" followed by a very long wall of text (at least, longer than what I expected from a person "who does not care anymore" about the DA franchise).

So, pls, cut the crap. I get criticism and all. Those board are filled with it and I read very interesting posts every day. I even understand if someone get emotional at times. But if you want to be taken seriously that's not the way to do it. Infact, I appreciate a lot that the OP have admitted his error by changing the title of the post and the disclaimer.

Modifié par FedericoV, 22 avril 2011 - 12:39 .

[TUHD]

FedericoV wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

I have not read your post and I wont since it's a wall of text. But I must point out that reading the title and seeing the content (especially the I wont' read any reply disclaimer) is really comical. I mean, you put a lot of effort to show your "lack of interest". Very emo. Thanks for the good laugh.

How extremely immature. <_<

Look, the original post was the zenith of immaturity. From the "I wont' read any reply because you do not agree completely with me" disclaimer to the "I don't care anymore about the series" followed by a post that was very long for a person "who does not care anymore" so to say.

So, pls, cut the crap. I get criticism and all. Those board are filled with it and I read very interesting posts every day. But if you want to be taken seriously that's not the way to do it. Infact, I appreciate a lot that the OP have admitted his error by changing the title of the post and the disclaimer.

Federico is right about this one... hence why I changed the title etc.

[FedericoV]

TUHD wrote...

Federico is right about this one... hence why I changed the title etc.

Thanks... I mean it. That's a sign of maturity and I really appreciate it. I even understand that someone can get emotional at times if he cares. Hence why I will edit my first post too, so everybody is happy .

[jds1bio]

Kajan451 wrote...

I agree with the Original Post

Shadowbanner wrote...

I'd wager that they have no experience in damage control

In my opinion they have no experiance in dealing with any kind of negative feedback.

In the past Months i have seen many fine examples on this board which just left me with the opinion some of the Devs are either incredibly arrogant or just plain d***s. I won't name names, because i do not want to turn this into a personal insult, but that "suck it up, princess" sounds believable. Even if it is made up, which is beyond my ability to judge, it sounds authentic enough.

Um, a couple of things:

First, I agree that this may be their first rodeo when it comes to negative feedback on a game that may not meet its 6-month or 1-year sales projections.  They are definitely leaning on a script while they figure out how to respond when announcing DLC or the next game.  But I have to say, if it was my first time as chief-in-charge of a game, and that game went on to sell almost 2 million copies in a month, I'd be kind of happy about it.  Being able to sell 1 million of anything is quite an accomplishment.

Second, there aren't 1.5 million people on the DA2 forums complaining about the game.  Not even close.  The game has its faults but there are hours of playability included in the game.

Third, the guys at Gamestop (supposedly) telling people not to buy DA2 are not acting in the best interests of GameStop or gamers.  They are only acting in their own self-interest to prop up their own self-importance over a videogame, or over someone else's preferences.

Fourth, we need the link to David Gaider's comment.  While your comment may be well-intentioned, I'm not going to believe hearsay.

Fifth, many of the comments on the boards now have to do with the story falling apart at the end from a role-playing standpoint.  Leave the (and others?) part out of your topic title, the people will come.

[Shamajotsi]

Actually, I don't think Bioware has to convince anyone to anything. Saying "I don't like the game" is perfectly valid. Saying "I don't like the game, do it this way next time" is the summation of every evil there is in consumerism, in my opinion, and it's mostly the latter that I see on those forums, which I think aggravates the staff here.

Yes, the game has many faults. Yes, there was a ****load of bugs in DA2 1.00 and 1.01, and yes, not all of the annoying bugs are addressed by 1.02. Yes, re-using maps has never been fun, and no, I don't understand who thought that the fans would buy it, especially given the fact that this was also one of the most annoying features of the otherwise excellent ME1. Yes, there are many pet peeves in terms of gameplay that I imagine could have been avoided if the game was given a little bit more testing. And, yes, maybe the developers should have been given a little bit more time and manpower.

It's the way the rest of the criticism has been voiced that concerns me. The battle system has been changed and DA2 has undergone a new art direction. Alright, maybe you don't like it, maybe I don't like it, maybe nobody likes it. Why should we word our criticism as a demand to Bioware of what they should do next, though? Isn't it up to them to decide whether they want to maintain artistic integrity or listen to the popular criticism? Why do they have to admit that they have messed up the game, if they themselves do not think this is the case? I am almost convinced that the writers would never state that they did anything wrong with DA2 by the many replies they have given that show they actually loved what they've done.

So, to state my point, since I am not certain that I have been clear... There is stuff that is universally accepted as being messed up with DA2. It has been confirmed by Bioware staff - and Lidlaw in particular - that the re-using of levels was a "lesser of two evils". Bugs are never okay, especially when they brake the game (Isabella, Sebastian, I'm looking at you!).

However, there are aspects of the game of ambiguous quality. I doubt that there are too many of the people working for Bioware, apart from Brent Knowles, who didn't like the new gameplay approach. I doubt that there is anyone in the writing team who doesn't like the idea of a framed narrative, who doesn't like the new characters, or who disagrees with the newest additions to the Thedas lore.

If I am right, well, the community has made certain points quite clear and the latest attempts to restate them in a more and more sarcastic manner are getting out of hand. It is up to Bioware to decide the path they will take with the DA franchise from now on - whether it will be what they have had in their minds since they began working on DA2, or it will be what the most vocal people on those forums demand from them. Both options seem fair in their own way.

I could be wrong, of course. It could be that Bioware are interested only in making money and killing puppies. Again, it is their choice to make - from what I've heard, their business plan is infuriating fans ad infinitum and somehow making money out of this. If this is their plan in the first place, I don't know what we could hope to achieve anyway.

Modifié par Shamajotsi, 22 avril 2011 - 01:25 .

[Sussurus]

Honestly I felt recently and for sometime that the DA franchise had got neglected in consumer support.
More so than many other games or game companies, themselves neglecting consumers complaints.

I think that has actualy reached a head now, if you check the DA:O support forum you'll see that Bioware is trying to make ground back up after the server fiasco.

Many peole make vain pledges about never buying a game from so and so again.
These don't particularly mean squat however, as its pretty meaningless.
But with all the media attention, the sheer mass of complaints not directly aimed at a game but the company itself do.
As it can lead to contracts getting canceled, fewer new gamers, wobbles in stock prices.
Job losses and even getting sold off to cut losses to the main parent company.

Honestly gaming is mass global media now, not just for teens and the select few and that requires more attention to making a refined product that is stable.

Modifié par Sussurus, 22 avril 2011 - 01:43 .

[TUHD]

jds1bio wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...

I agree with the Original Post

Shadowbanner wrote...

I'd wager that they have no experience in damage control

In my opinion they have no experiance in dealing with any kind of negative feedback.

In the past Months i have seen many fine examples on this board which just left me with the opinion some of the Devs are either incredibly arrogant or just plain d***s. I won't name names, because i do not want to turn this into a personal insult, but that "suck it up, princess" sounds believable. Even if it is made up, which is beyond my ability to judge, it sounds authentic enough.

Fourth, we need the link to David Gaider's comment.  While your comment may be well-intentioned, I'm not going to believe hearsay.

There you go....

[Wittand25]

TUHD wrote...

jds1bio wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...

I agree with the Original Post

Shadowbanner wrote...

I'd wager that they have no experience in damage control

In my opinion they have no experiance in dealing with any kind of negative feedback.

In the past Months i have seen many fine examples on this board which just left me with the opinion some of the Devs are either incredibly arrogant or just plain d***s. I won't name names, because i do not want to turn this into a personal insult, but that "suck it up, princess" sounds believable. Even if it is made up, which is beyond my ability to judge, it sounds authentic enough.

Fourth, we need the link to David Gaider's comment.  While your comment may be well-intentioned, I'm not going to believe hearsay.

There you go....

Well he was right, maybe not with the princess part but the rest. As I recall you sended PMs to several Bioware employees because of Perespone in the thread in question even though she behaved perfectly polite and only questioned the hyperbole of several other posters there.

[TUHD]

I could get far into the case here, but that's going offtopic. Also, John Epler deleted some posts - including at least one of the offending posts. Gaider didn't notice that John Epler already had modded the topic.

Modifié par TUHD, 22 avril 2011 - 02:14 .

[flexxdk]

Sabriana wrote...
*huuuuge snip*

Sorry, but this just doesn't cut it. Not for me. If this is truly the direction they're heading in, then I wish them a pleasant journey. I'll be waving good-bye, with a few tears in my eye. It has been a great ride, but now we must part.

No, losing my piddly little euros won't bother them. But I'll feel great, and I will spend them on creators who do cater to my personal preferences. It's a simple as that.

If that's true, can I join?

Because honestly, I think that my money is probably better spent somewhere else then.

I'll just wait for DA3, but from what I've heard things won't be changing any time soon.

Modifié par Whacka, 22 avril 2011 - 02:16 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Hah I knew that's what he said that about. I was thinking the same thing when you said you were doing that. Anyway David Gaider is the head writer. John Elper is the correct person to PM. Hence why you got a more neutral answer from him. Its his job, not David's. David isn't a mod.He doesn't need to know what Elper modded or not. But still unsure why you didn't just use the 'report post' feature.

Anyway back on topic, I didn't agree with much of it but I do agree with your edited title quite a bit. Love or hate DA2, they should always have to work to win our sales and not rely on their name alone.

[DTKT]

Honestly.

I think you are looking way much into this TUHD.

This is not a discussion about the game. This is about Bioware and how it handles PR. I couldn't care less about that aspect of Bioware. It's not targeted towards me so I won't pay any attention to it.

[Sabriana]

Whacka wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
*huuuuge snip*

Sorry, but this just doesn't cut it. Not for me. If this is truly the direction they're heading in, then I wish them a pleasant journey. I'll be waving good-bye, with a few tears in my eye. It has been a great ride, but now we must part.

No, losing my piddly little euros won't bother them. But I'll feel great, and I will spend them on creators who do cater to my personal preferences. It's a simple as that.

If that's true, can I join?

Because honestly, I think that my money is probably better spent somewhere else then.

I'll just wait for DA3, but from what I've heard things won't be changing any time soon.

Sure. Hop on, get comfortable, have a beer, and enjoy.

@ Cutlass Jack

To be honest, Gaider is listed as a moderator down at the bottom. However, he has stated quite often that he feels more like a privat person when posting. Personally, *I* would PM Mr. Epler, who seems to have one of the most balanced approach of any moderator I've ever seen - anywhere, on any forum.

It was still not necessary to write "suck it up, princess". That was rude on any level. If someone went on his nerves, why not simply ignore the PM, or write "received and noted" or some other cut and paste (no, no sideswipe here, no pun whatsoever intented, honest) reply.

[Relshar]

"If you felt less connected to your followers, that's too bad. There
could be many reasons for that, but if the requirement to someone
feeling connected is having long, rambling conversations in the party
camp... I can safely say that's unlikely to happen again. I could see
front-loading the characters a bit more so players are more thoroughly
introduced (as it was, a lot of the character interaction ended up in
Act 2 quite by accident) but I have absolutely no intention of
returning to the reams of expository dialogue as a replacement for
character development anytime soon"

Full text at:

social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/305/index/7154827/1


=====================================================================================

That bit  will make sure I will never buy another DA game again. After ME3 is released that will be the last BioWare game I will be buying.

Modifié par Relshar, 22 avril 2011 - 03:05 .

[Elhanan]

Seems somone forgot the P in PM, but am somewhat more content to see the supposed context.

In the given case, I side with David. When one decides to wrestle, one should expect possible injuries. Asking David to take specific actions concerning a thread and/or poster seems rather childish and entitled, IMO. I try to simply direct info towards the mods they may wish to manage, and let them do their thing in their own way, but that is me.

As for the game, while I prefer to have less aliens in the Alienage, I am looking forward to seeing what is offered next.

[Everwarden]

Bah. I hate to side with Darth Gaider.. but he's in the right on this one. 

[mykeme]

TUHD wrote...


There you go....

Wow. I need to find a way to sig that. And by the way - Persephone really is a troll. It's just that she usually trolls DA2-bashing threads and has been caught praising Mr. Gaider on some occasions.

[wildannie]

Relshar wrote...

"If you felt less connected to your followers, that's too bad. There
could be many reasons for that, but if the requirement to someone
feeling connected is having long, rambling conversations in the party
camp... I can safely say that's unlikely to happen again. I could see
front-loading the characters a bit more so players are more thoroughly
introduced (as it was, a lot of the character interaction ended up in
Act 2 quite by accident) but I have absolutely no intention of
returning to the reams of expository dialogue as a replacement for
character development anytime soon"

Full text at:

social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/305/index/7154827/1


=====================================================================================

That bit  will make sure I will never buy another DA game again. After ME3 is released that will be the last BioWare game I will be buying.

yeah, when I read his responses on that thread I felt a bit sick:sick: 

[rak72]

"Suck it up Princess" Is extremely rude and unprofessional. It seems that the people at bioware have forgotten that it is ULTIMATELY the customers that pay their salary.

I also saw DG's post about the long, rambling conversations. It sickens me how they keep ragging on DAO.

It is their prerogative to make games how they want to, and to treat their consumers how they want to. But it is also my prerogative not to continue purchasing their products. It looks like I will be exercising my prerogative.

@TUHD - you should make "suck it up princess" as your sig

Modifié par rak72, 22 avril 2011 - 04:26 .

[Shamajotsi]

Relshar wrote...

"If you felt less connected to your followers, that's too bad. There
could be many reasons for that, but if the requirement to someone
feeling connected is having long, rambling conversations in the party
camp... I can safely say that's unlikely to happen again. I could see
front-loading the characters a bit more so players are more thoroughly
introduced (as it was, a lot of the character interaction ended up in
Act 2 quite by accident) but I have absolutely no intention of
returning to the reams of expository dialogue as a replacement for
character development anytime soon"

Full text at:

social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/305/index/7154827/1


=====================================================================================

That bit  will make sure I will never buy another DA game again. After ME3 is released that will be the last BioWare game I will be buying.

What is wrong with that quote? I guess the writing team wanted to step out of the boundries of the "video game" label and do what is actually cherished in any other form of art - they decided to show, not tell (explicitly). Ever seen a good movie/play/book where the main character is used just as a patient listener, so that the audience could witness long monologues of exposition? Again, about this Bioware faces the choice between artistic integrity and popular demand. I just don't see why would the populus demand what is concidered the weaker and less convincing tool for "character developement".

[AgentWhale]

Wow, David Gaider is the man!

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Because you touch yourself at night.

[AgentWhale]

Shamajotsi wrote...

Relshar wrote...

"If you felt less connected to your followers, that's too bad. There
could be many reasons for that, but if the requirement to someone
feeling connected is having long, rambling conversations in the party
camp... I can safely say that's unlikely to happen again. I could see
front-loading the characters a bit more so players are more thoroughly
introduced (as it was, a lot of the character interaction ended up in
Act 2 quite by accident) but I have absolutely no intention of
returning to the reams of expository dialogue as a replacement for
character development anytime soon"

Full text at:

social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/305/index/7154827/1


=====================================================================================

That bit  will make sure I will never buy another DA game again. After ME3 is released that will be the last BioWare game I will be buying.

What is wrong with that quote? I guess the writing team wanted to step out of the boundries of the "video game" label and do what is actually cherished in any other form of art - they decided to show, not tell (explicitly). Ever seen a good movie/play/book where the main character is used just as a patient listener, so that the audience could witness long monologues of exposition? Again, about this Bioware faces the choice between artistic integrity and popular demand. I just don't see why would the populus demand what is concidered the weaker and less convincing tool for "character developement".

You will notice that the haters are not consistent in their demands. DA2 is "dumbed down" for them, yet at the same time dislike DA2's shades of grey complex character approach.

[TUHD]

AgentWhale, no bashing/trolling in this thread! Thank you.