244 réponses à ce sujet

[wildannie]

AgentWhale wrote...

Wow, David Gaider is the man!

Yes, because being rude condesending is really cool <_<

[AgentWhale]

I admire his restraint.

-edit-


I'm shocked and appauled that you had to suffer David Gaider's insults. Bwaaahaaaahaaaaa.

Actually you guys remind me of those cocky bullys. Who goad their victim into a reaction, then: waa waaa, he called me a rude word.. waa I'm telling on you. waaa.

Modifié par AgentWhale, 22 avril 2011 - 05:31 .

[jds1bio]

TUHD wrote...

jds1bio wrote...

Fourth, we need the link to David Gaider's comment.  While your comment may be well-intentioned, I'm not going to believe hearsay.

There you go....

Thanks.  This is not the way I would communicate to fellow forum-goers, or to my customers, at all. No matter what they said to me.

But, this comment doesn't seem to be related to anything about DA2 itself.  I was under the impression that his response was to a comment someone made about the game, not about flaming.

[TUHD]

My error then jds1bio... sorry for that. Or perhaps you've read the link towards another topic (that is somewhere in this thread...) and confused those two with each other. Either way, some miscommunication

[Rockpopple]

Personally I never felt insulted or tricked by BioWare or the Devs on this forum. They've been very fair to me when I've talked to them. As for Laidlaw's interviews... as someone who still enjoys Origins to this day, I never felt insulted by him personally. *shrug*

As for your complaint with Gaider - I've never seen Persephone try to induce a flame war. She's only tried to say her own points of view, but she's never resorted to ad-hominum attacks or anything that could be seen as flaming. I'd say Gaider was justified in his response. That and he's only human - we all make mistakes.

Just my .02

Modifié par Rockpopple, 22 avril 2011 - 05:28 .

[wildannie]

@Rockpopple

I'm not really judging whether DG was right or wrong in his assessment of the complaint, but there are ways of saying things. He is an employee of Bioware and as such surely has a greater responsibility to give more restrained responses than the rest of us.

[Rockpopple]

I can agree with that. But he's only human. He might have been having a bad day (or a bad month).

[IN1]

Either way, some miscommunication

Or some manipulation. 
Basically, DG told you to **** off when you were trying to frame Persephone, who, in my experience, is always correct and never offensive, whether you agree with her or not. You got the reply you deserve for trying your hand at foul cowardly tactics. Now, not only do you demonstrate the contents of your private message inbox to the community, you also try to manipulate the readers into thinking DG's reply was somehow game-related. 
I know I was manipulated into imagining horrible things. Something along the lines of you telling him: "Dear David, I must admit I don't like Anders' new personality all that much", and him replying with: "Suck it up, princess!"

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

1)  You're wandering off of the thread's topic.

2)  Hey, guys, DG was right.  The poster was not trying to start a flame war.  The poster was making points the OP could not deal with.  The OP, seeing his argument was no good, ran to DG.  DG told him (correctly) that there was no flame baiting.  The OP needs to suck it up.

3)  OP, you're wearing poop-colored glasses.  You've tucked all the bad moments together (including many things BW had no control over) and you're claiming that's the whole experience.  You are wrong.  :lol:

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 22 avril 2011 - 05:42 .

[wildannie]

Rockpopple wrote...

I can agree with that. But he's only human. He might have been having a bad day (or a bad month).

good point, I have those too...maybe I should try 'suck it up princess' next time I have to say no to an annoying client at work 

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

TUHD wrote...
- Interviews. (Indirectly) Insulting customers is a great way to ****** people off and drive them away from your company. Laidlaw, I am mostly looking at you - but also Zeschuk and others.

I've begun to wonder if BioWare wouldn't be much better of pushing customers like you away.  :D:D

You know why?  Because then there wouldn't be all this doom in gloom in the forums.  You'd be off playing TropeQuest Fifteen: I Only Play Game With Looming Antagonists and the rest of the world could enjoy watching games grow into something that kicks even more ass than they already do.

You worry too much.  Let go of the stuff from the past, enjoy the games for what they offer, and I think you'll see that there is a lot of awesome stuff out there.  :)

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 22 avril 2011 - 05:47 .

[Curlain]

Sabriana wrote...

[
"There is not enough companion interaction and/or character growth. "

This includes postings from people who like DA 2 equally/more than DA:O. However, I just found out that David Gaider posted this:

=====================================================================================

"If you felt less connected to your followers, that's too bad. There
could be many reasons for that, but if the requirement to someone
feeling connected is having long, rambling conversations in the party
camp... I can safely say that's unlikely to happen again. I could see
front-loading the characters a bit more so players are more thoroughly
introduced (as it was, a lot of the character interaction ended up in
Act 2 quite by accident) but I have absolutely no intention of
returning to the reams of expository dialogue as a replacement for
character development anytime soon"

Full text at:

social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/305/index/7154827/1


=====================================================================================

I'm sorry, but dimissing a major, standing out like a sore thumb concern and complaint of people with arrogance is not a good thing to do. "Too bad?" Yes, indeed it is. Too bad for them. There are others, and I can spend my money there quite easily.

"Long, rambling conversations?" I see. I guess that makes those of us who actually like talking to our companions a lot and in-depth idiotic old fogeys who like "ramblings".  In the spirit of the post, I find that remark derogatory. Personally, I get the feeling of being pat-patted on the head, and send out to play and "grow up."

Sorry, but this just doesn't cut it. Not for me. If this is truly the direction they're heading in, then I wish them a pleasant journey. I'll be waving good-bye, with a few tears in my eye. It has been a great ride, but now we must part.

No, losing my piddly little euros won't bother them. But I'll feel great, and I will spend them on creators who do cater to my personal preferences. It's a simple as that.

---> sarcasm:
Heaven's forbid they actually listen to one of the major complaints about DA 2. Why, they might even apease people. And what's worse, they might even increase sales. And they certainly can't have that. They rather be "right", and look down their noses at all those whose opinion differs. /sarcasm

I have been wondering having played DA2 whether I will still be part of the audience that DA3 will cater to.  Seems like I have my answer on the whole here, abate in a rather condecending and insulting manner.  And since liking building relationship through conversations in this manner is deemed rambling it seems indicative that the series is truly parting ways with my personal preferences.  It's sad, but like you say, there are other developers out there, so it looks like I'll have to wish the DA world a sad goodbye (it would have been nice though if some of BioWare's responses were not quite so condecending to players who enjoyed their older style of doing things)

[Lord Gremlin]

...
You know, all I really care about here is game itself. Also, I like Gaider's books. So unless he insults me personally I'm likely to buy anything DA-related anyway... Certain factors however will affect if next game at launch or later. Like, if Laidlaw is still in charge.

[Night Prowler76]

Sabriana wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...

I agree with the Original Post

Shadowbanner wrote...

I'd wager that they have no experience in damage control

In my opinion they have no experiance in dealing with any kind of negative feedback.

In the past Months i have seen many fine examples on this board which just left me with the opinion some of the Devs are either incredibly arrogant or just plain d***s. I won't name names, because i do not want to turn this into a personal insult, but that "suck it up, princess" sounds believable. Even if it is made up, which is beyond my ability to judge, it sounds authentic enough.

If not for  Luke Barrett, who has restored my faith in at least some members of the team, i would most likely have accepted the Team responsible for DA as beyond hope.

But i make no mistake, its not like my opinion would matter either way. All i can hope for is that someone is still reading these threads and maybe has a word with some members of the Team.

After all, adding insult to injury is never the way to go.

And as Artist, i simply have to say: If you can't deal with ignoring people bad mouthing your work, and still remain a civil and smiling facade, no matter how much it hurts that your work is considered bad by people, then you should be looking for a different profession.

Not even Rockstars and Movie Celebrities can get away with being a total ass insulting, unless they are Charlie Sheen (it seems).

Sadly, this seems to be true. They appear arrogant and dismissive, with a few notable exceptions. For example, many, many posts I have read include the complaint:

"There is not enough companion interaction and/or character growth. "

This includes postings from people who like DA 2 equally/more than DA:O. However, I just found out that David Gaider posted this:

=====================================================================================

"If you felt less connected to your followers, that's too bad. There
could be many reasons for that, but if the requirement to someone
feeling connected is having long, rambling conversations in the party
camp... I can safely say that's unlikely to happen again. I could see
front-loading the characters a bit more so players are more thoroughly
introduced (as it was, a lot of the character interaction ended up in
Act 2 quite by accident) but I have absolutely no intention of
returning to the reams of expository dialogue as a replacement for
character development anytime soon"

Full text at:

social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/305/index/7154827/1


=====================================================================================

I'm sorry, but dimissing a major, standing out like a sore thumb concern and complaint of people with arrogance is not a good thing to do. "Too bad?" Yes, indeed it is. Too bad for them. There are others, and I can spend my money there quite easily.

"Long, rambling conversations?" I see. I guess that makes those of us who actually like talking to our companions a lot and in-depth idiotic old fogeys who like "ramblings".  In the spirit of the post, I find that remark derogatory. Personally, I get the feeling of being pat-patted on the head, and send out to play and "grow up."

Sorry, but this just doesn't cut it. Not for me. If this is truly the direction they're heading in, then I wish them a pleasant journey. I'll be waving good-bye, with a few tears in my eye. It has been a great ride, but now we must part.

No, losing my piddly little euros won't bother them. But I'll feel great, and I will spend them on creators who do cater to my personal preferences. It's a simple as that.

---> sarcasm:
Heaven's forbid they actually listen to one of the major complaints about DA 2. Why, they might even apease people. And what's worse, they might even increase sales. And they certainly can't have that. They rather be "right", and look down their noses at all those whose opinion differs. /sarcasm

Gaider's diaper seems to be full as of late, the few posts he makes,  make him look like a whiney privelaged brat, saying "too bad" to your paying customers is a good way to turn a succesful business into a disaster, kind of like DA2.

The attitude of this company stinks, they basically hit the gold mine with a great new IP and then destroyed it in less than 2 years, way to go guys, keep up the good work.

Modifié par Night Prowler76, 22 avril 2011 - 05:53 .

[Shamajotsi]

Whoa, guys, chill!


I know that the mages ones who liked DA2 feel provoked by the templars the ones who hated DA2, but resorting to blood magic personal insults is not the solution! The only thing we could hope to achieve by taking our part in flame wars could be the invocation of the Right of Annulmenteven more napalm and a greater divide between both groups.

PS Poop-colored glasses... as a non-native speaker, I am always happy to learn something new !

Modifié par Shamajotsi, 22 avril 2011 - 05:54 .

[Night Prowler76]

AgentWhale wrote...

I admire his restraint.

-edit-


I'm shocked and appauled that you had to suffer David Gaider's insults. Bwaaahaaaahaaaaa.

Actually you guys remind me of those cocky bullys. Who goad their victim into a reaction, then: waa waaa, he called me a rude word.. waa I'm telling on you. waaa.

You can quit bending over for BioWare now, nobody cares.

[TUHD]

*sighs* Oh gosh. Really. Try to make a point, and trolls start rolling in.... *facepalm*
@Shamajots: thanks, you rephrased what I putted in my original post - the problem of the flaming all around. That I get some negative feedback about my PM, fine - but some can go a bit too far.

Modifié par TUHD, 22 avril 2011 - 05:54 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

TUHD wrote...

*sighs* Oh gosh. Really. Try to make a point, and trolls start rolling in.... *facepalm*
@Shamajots: thanks, you rephrased what I putted in my original post - the problem of the flaming all around. That I get some negative feedback about my PM, fine - but some can go a bit too far.

You can't call anyone who disagrees with you a troll.  :kissing:  In fact, I don't actually see you making any defense of your initial point beyond pointing at a rebuttal and screaming troll.  ;)

[jds1bio]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

1)  You're wandering off of the thread's topic.

2)  Hey, guys, DG was right.  The poster was not trying to start a flame war.  The poster was making points the OP could not deal with.  The OP, seeing his argument was no good, ran to DG.  DG told him (correctly) that there was no flame baiting.  The OP needs to suck it up.

3)  OP, you're wearing poop-colored glasses.  You've tucked all the bad moments together (including many things BW had no control over) and you're claiming that's the whole experience.  You are wrong.  :lol:

The tone and wording of DG's response, no matter who you feel deserved it, was unprofessional and a poor decision on his part.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

jds1bio wrote...

The tone and wording of DG's response, no matter who you feel deserved it, was unprofessional and a poor decision on his part.

The truth is never unprofessional and never a poor choice.  Additionaly, it was hilarious.

[TUHD]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

TUHD wrote...

*sighs* Oh gosh. Really. Try to make a point, and trolls start rolling in.... *facepalm*
@Shamajots: thanks, you rephrased what I putted in my original post - the problem of the flaming all around. That I get some negative feedback about my PM, fine - but some can go a bit too far.

You can't call anyone who disagrees with you a troll.  :kissing:  In fact, I don't actually see you making any defense of your initial point beyond pointing at a rebuttal and screaming troll.  ;)

How are you calling the following then? Looks like an post only meant as an insult to me (aka trolling)

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

1)  You're wandering off of the thread's topic.

2) 
Hey, guys, DG was right.  The poster was not trying to start a flame
war.  The poster was making points the OP could not deal with.  The OP,
seeing his argument was no good, ran to DG.  DG told him (correctly)
that there was no flame baiting.  The OP needs to suck it up.

3) 
OP, you're wearing poop-colored glasses.  You've tucked all the bad
moments together (including many things BW had no control over) and
you're claiming that's the whole experience.  You are wrong.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Also, I let my original post speak for itself, as it should be.

[Gamer Ftw]

I liked da2 and the thedas universe.
 but really suck it up princess?
Isn't there a better, more mature way to put that?
It really doesn't seem like he cares what any of us think.
I bought Da2 to find out what happened with the old god baby and you know what? I think we will Never find out they will just gloss over it.
And they ruined the elves and why?
because we felt like it. so we just have to accept merril is nothing like in origins and the dalish magically have welsh accents. even though it doesn't make sense.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 22 avril 2011 - 06:06 .

[Rockpopple]

TUHD, you have a bad habit of calling anyone who looks at you funny a 'troll'. I've seen you do that often around here. Often when the conversation isn't even about you, or wasn't started by you. You just zero in on people you don't agree with and call them trolls to their face.

If that's your attitude when approaching mods, then I'm not surprised that a) they find nothing to your accusations and that they're short with you.

As for Gaider's tone and whatnot, his job is to write. That's what he does for me as a consumer of his product. I really don't care how he approaches people on the forums or how nice or mean he is to them - as long as he churns out high-quality writing in games, then he's being professional. The moment he stops that, then there's a problem.

If you're a lawyer, interacting with your clients is part of your job. I get that. Gaider's a writer. Writing's his job.

[jds1bio]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

jds1bio wrote...

The tone and wording of DG's response, no matter who you feel deserved it, was unprofessional and a poor decision on his part.

The truth is never unprofessional and never a poor choice.  Additionaly, it was hilarious.

"Suck it up, Princess.", while it might be considered hilarious by some, is not a statement of truth. 

Now go start a company, tell your customers this, and then try to sell a million units.  That's what John Romero did.  I guess you don't remember John Romero telling his customers to "suck it down", then trying to sell Daikatana.  It didn't work out well for him.  At all.

[TUHD]

Rockpopple wrote...

TUHD, you have a bad habit of calling anyone who looks at you funny a 'troll'. I've seen you do that often around here. Often when the conversation isn't even about you, or wasn't started by you. You just zero in on people you don't agree with and call them trolls to their face.

If that's your attitude when approaching mods, then I'm not surprised that a) they find nothing to your accusations and that they're short with you.

As for Gaider's tone and whatnot, his job is to write. That's what he does for me as a consumer of his product. I really don't care how he approaches people on the forums or how nice or mean he is to them - as long as he churns out high-quality writing in games, then he's being professional. The moment he stops that, then there's a problem.

If you're a lawyer, interacting with your clients is part of your job. I get that. Gaider's a writer. Writing's his job.

I only call people trolls in case they seem to be out there in an topic to either incite an flame war (knowingly or unknowingly) or to insult and harass people. That 6 out of 10 times in a thread one or more trolls pass by, isn't my error.

Edit: for all others, I've edited my OP to take away any possible confusion about the situation of the 'Suck it up princess' line. Added some clarification.

Modifié par TUHD, 22 avril 2011 - 06:12 .