244 réponses à ce sujet

[Ariella]

Kajan451 wrote...

Ariella wrote...

David's listed as a mod because he's a Bioware employee and immediately gets mod privilages, however he's always acted on these forums less like a moderator and more like the head writer of Dragon Age.

Reading his ENTIRE post as to why he didn't writer Anders and why Anders was written in a different direction the context makes sense, and he's make it clear since Awakenings that we're not going back to the same kind of camp dialogue in there was in Origins. After being asked why the 350th time I think I'd be a little pissy too.

No offense, i worked for AOL as Forum Scout and i was a Mod for a couple big Roleplay Forums. Being asked the same thing over and over again, is NORMAL. And yes, even i got pissy at times, but then i would get up go for a walk and then return and post a Link to another reply already.

Thing is David really isn't a mod, nor should he be expected to act like one.

And do you know why? Because as Mod i represent the Company / Forum.. and i am not a private person who can be pissy and ****y about stuff. People see those Fancy Nametags and see you are a representive. They take what you say more seriously because you are kind of speaking from an elevated point.

In Gaiders Case... he even flaunts his title as Lead Writer. Which means he does not only represent the Forum as Mod, but he does Represent those who made the decisions in this games. He represents the core team. Not the poor programmers who have no influence on it... or some writer who is hired to write some character... and who does have only a minor voice in how things are done. No he flaunts the title of LEAD Writer.

So what, you sound jealous more than anything else.

And as such his words are measured much more and valuded more. In such a position you don't go around and insult people or act pissy at them. Because it represents the Team, the Company  badly. Noone cares that he might claims he is posting as a private person. Because he isn't on this forum, as long as he goes around telling everyone who is, what his position was and how much influence he had on things.

David is a human being, and a writer, as as such havingh crap shoveled on his baby 24/7 by some people is going to sour his attitude. This wasn't even a forum post but a PM which didn't even need to be sent to Gaider. And what he said wasn't terrible. Not Emily Post, but not terrible by a LONG shot. Dave used to participate on these forums and their predessesors all the time, we laugh, joke, even flirt a little. It was fun, but then a lot of the forumites started taking things way too seriously and the Dev teams didn't come out to play much any more. Dave's "influence" at that time was "cool he's a writer for Bioware" and we'd chat, not much else.

Speaking of bad form, last I checked it was something of a sin to post PMs without the permission of the other party in public. So you can award points all around if you want.

You can't go around and expect people to listen to you and sunbath in their praise and at the same time claim you are your own person and not an official when you decided to be pissy at people.

Hell you can't, especially if you think people aren't giving your baby a fair shake.

Thats not how it works. People see both and judge them as both. And acts like that just serve to make people see how the Lead Writer is rude to people. They don't care if there were 350 similar questions. They don't track down every post of the Lead Writer to see how he behaved in the last 20 threads. They come to this board and see that ONE post and thats the one that sticks with them.

The post was taken ou of context and was little more than an attempt to bash David.

Thats why you walk away if you flaunt an official position and take a breath, suck it up and swallow it down.. and then smile into their faces while you think your part.


You just can't go around and insult people as long as they know who you are. Its why i would have other accounts to be a private person. Some people would know who i was when i posted with them, but those people were so much around they would see why i acted the way i acted. They weren't some strangers who wouldn't read every thread on the board and would come to this one thread finding someone with official credentials to be pissy and rude.

There is a reason why people say you shouldn't mix Buisness with Private.

This has nothing to do with private vs "official", even if he had a provate account and it came out who he was, it wouldn't matter. It's just easier to address everthing from one account. But he's not a mod, but the lead writing who is saying that the camp system isn't going to happen again. Not insulting, just the truth,

[erynnar]

neppakyo wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

I'm not up on my internet lingo, but what exactly is strawmanning? Just a bit curious is all.

Not internet lingo. It's a logical fallacy wherein one tackles the opponent's position by misrepresenting it and building a ridiculous, false version (the straw man) and then soundly defeating the straw man of their own construction without actually addressing the true meat of the opposing argument. 

Ahh, makes sense. Heh, thought it was one of those silly internet things. Too much IRC, so i tend to ignore people who cant fathom a completely worded sentence. 

ROFL!

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

So...David Gaider really told you to "suck it up, princess".That hardly seems mature for a man his age
In fact, it makes him look like a grumpy man-child in my eyes.

And that is why Mr. Epler is the only BioWare employee worthy of praise at the moment. He always approaches topics in a respectful, and sensible manner, and is always willing to have a valid discussion about this game's flaws. Unlike "End of line"

Well, to be fair, we do not know the context of the PM , nor do we have it in full. What I've read of Mr. Gaider in the last few weeks has been witty, interesting and classy. (Despite people bashing him...mind you)

But I've read the full post by the OP and he/she makes some very interesting points. I don't agree with all of them but IMO this is a good summary that Bioware should not ignore. (It's important to look at both sides of the fence, after all)

Edit: I just saw the scan of the PM. And I do have to say that while it's one thing to disagree with a complaint, doing it this way really wasn't necessary.

Modifié par Persephone, 23 avril 2011 - 05:27 .

[Sabriana]

If David Gaider does not want to be treated as a Moderator, perhaps he should request being taken off the "Moderators" list at the bottom. It might save some confusion by people who actually believe the list down below.

The reply was still rude. There's the catch-all answer for people who go on ones nerves. Such as "received and noted" or somesuch. He is listed as a moderator, and he represents the company as such.

I'm used to Gaider being snarky. He always was, and we all knew it. He is usually even-handed in spite of being attacked unfairly, and that happens quite often. However, he is also prone to loose his cool in a big way once in a while. It's human, yeah, but I've not yet seen him be outright rude like this either.

He can also come across as arrogant and as a "I'm always right, no matter what' person. That's why I usually don't participate in discussions with him that involve subjects where my opinion completely differs from his. I hate being "talked down" to with all my heart. So this being the interwebs, I simply avoid them altogether.

Persephone, you are very fair and a good sport. No, I'm not snarky, I'm being sincere. We definitely don't agree on many points pertaining to DA 2, but I can appreciate the last paragraph of your post. Very gracious indeed.

[axl99]

"I believe there's more than one way for you to learn about a character other than letting them do all the talking in a conversation." Which is how I interpreted David Gaider's first few posts regarding companion dialogue.

Me, I tend to agree as I lean more towards visual storytelling, which doesn't rely on words or speech to convey an idea.

[Gamer Ftw]

I don't know, I lost respect for Gaider after he argued with a user that hated Aistair.
I mean that user has a right to like or dislike any character.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 23 avril 2011 - 06:08 .

[Persephone]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

I don't know, I lost respect for Gaider after he argued with a user that hated Aistair.
I mean that user has a right to like or dislike any character.

You mean the one where he defended Alistair against being called a "hopeless whiner"? I was in total agreement with Gaider there. Or did I miss something?

[Gamer Ftw]

Alistair is a hopeless whiner.
and why defend a fictional character against slanders?
plus I wonder why people keep saying he is funny because he just comes off as stupid to me.
Seriously a 20 year old who freaks at the mention of sex and la lal la's is not believable.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 23 avril 2011 - 06:22 .

[Persephone]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

Alistair is a hopeless whiner.
and why defend a fictional character agaist slanders?

In your opinion? 

And maybe because a writer cares about his characters?

[Gamer Ftw]

Rotfl
The misunderstood artist act? please
maybe he's just not a nice person?

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 23 avril 2011 - 06:25 .

[Zjarcal]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

I don't know, I lost respect for Gaider after he argued with a user that hated Aistair.
I mean that user has a right to like or dislike any character.

He wasn't negating the user his right to dislike the character or not, he was arguing about why he wrote Alistair the way he did and most importantly clarifying facts about how Alistair saw things, not necessarily defending him. If I recall, the user in that thread was asking for Bioware to never include a character like Alistair again, or something like that. It was a rather nonsensical post and it was the nonsense part that Gaider was replying too.

I'm sure he couln't care less about whether we hate his characters or not.

[Gamer Ftw]

I second asking they never write a character like that again.
Lick a lampost in winter seriously who finds this funny?

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 23 avril 2011 - 06:27 .

[Persephone]

Zjarcal wrote...

Gamer Ftw wrote...

I don't know, I lost respect for Gaider after he argued with a user that hated Aistair.
I mean that user has a right to like or dislike any character.

He wasn't negating the user his right to dislike the character or not, he was arguing about why he wrote Alistair the way he did and most importantly clarifying facts about how Alistair saw things, not necessarily defending him. If I recall, the user in that thread was asking for Bioware to never include a character like Alistair again, or something like that. It was a rather nonsensical post and it was the nonsense part that Gaider was replying too.

I'm sure he couln't care less about whether we hate his characters or not.

Pretty much this.

[Virginian]

Alistair rules.

[Gamer Ftw]

Actually in my game Alistair doesn't rule he cries drunkenly in a bar or rots because Anora had him killed.
I consider it a mercy killing though because of his low intellect and the fact that he looks like a bloated meatbag in DA2.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 23 avril 2011 - 06:35 .

[blazin130791]

Feel the rage.

[erynnar]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

Actually in my game Alistair doesn't rule he cries drunkenly in a bar or rots because Anora had him killed.
I consider it a mercy killing though because of his low intellect and the fact that he looks like a bloated meatbag in DA2.

yeah, we got it, you HATE Alistair.  You moan like Fenris does about mages.  You are welcome to your opinion, you shared it and now we can move on.

[Gamer Ftw]

Wow no need to be rude.
Stating my opinion is hardly moaning about it.
and unless this is your thread I doubt you have the right to dictate who says what on it.

[erynnar]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

Wow no need to be rude.
Stating my opinion is hardly moaning about it.
and unless this is your thread I doubt you have the right to dictate who says what on it.

*sigh* No, it isn't my thread, nor is it yours. It does however belong to the BIoWare forum and their rules like us to stay on topic mostly. We got you don't like Alistair the first two time you said it (the rest was redundant).

It looks as though you are hijacking a thread to bash a pixelated person and the writer who created him. Please, do go make an "I hate Alistair and Gaider is a Git" thread (or any other DA characters you didn't like, surely Alistair can't be the only one), or change the topic to why BW would need to try hard to convice you to buy a new DA-game, or there is a bridge that is missing you.  

[spacepopeadventures]

JaegerBane wrote...

By 'fixing stuff that isn't broke', I mean anything that worked just fine previously - that is, no-one complained about it and it didn't frustrate - that was replaced by something new that actually made it worse. So in the case of helmets, I'm more talking about the armour system in general. Let's face it, I don't recall anyone disliking the fact Shep wore armour suits, or his squadmates, for that matter. Regarding classes, I believe the idea was to make them more distinct.... but the achieved this in a substandard way, by forcing more restrictions on the classes. And the Mako combat felt more like controlling a tank - cover was an element but not to the extent where getting shot out of cover was virtually prelude to reload.

The general theme is that they're changes that no-one actually asked for but enacted anyway. That's the situation that seems to the recurring feature.

Okay, agreed.

I tend to forget that about the Mako, since--like every other powergamer out there--I never fought anything that wasn't  a Thresher Maw in the Mako and never killed a thing in it, for XP reasons. It was pretty damn beefy, wasn't it?

Good point - Awakening's duff changes seemed to be made for expediency. On the other hand, many of DA2's issues also seemed to be made out of expediency. The massive re-use of maps - to the extent that the entire game takes place over an area that was no larger than Denerim - was presumably made because the resources simply weren't there to do more.

Certainly. But this I'd class as a shortcut that isn't sensible. Sometimes a shortcut will so obviously get you hammered by everyone that it's just not a viable path to take.

Same goes for lesser interactions, generic loot and storyline that effectively didn't vary. I can't think of that many rubbish changes made that actually needed more time to implement than the former.

Not in themselves, true, but I can think of areas where they took away something important while adding something less so. For instance, if we just had Bethany survive no matter what, would anyone have missed Carver? (I sure hope not.) All those hours could have gone into rounding out our other companion relationships.

Then there are areas where a better solution would have been no harder than a bad one. It wouldn't have taken extra effort to frontload Meredith and Orsino with brief appearances in Act I and significant appearances earlier in Act 2. It would've taken a negligible amount of effort to add a couple of lines to certain cut scenes in Act 3 explaining why these dudes insist on fighting you.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realise that my disappointment is mainly in the writers. I can live with recycled environments, dull though they may be, and the bugs can and will eventually be patched. I have no problem with the stylised combat. Even the fact that the story railroads us would be tolerable if it were well-handled. What throws me out of it i really the sprinkling of really bad lines and the many, many places where a much needed conversation ("Wait, why are you convinced I'm working for Person A, again?" "Hold up, I'm not here to wipe you all out, really!" "Look, I don't care if you use forbidden magic, we can still fight them together!") would have made a fight seem logical and inevitable. As it is, I often felt that the story was an excuse to move Hawke from one batch of fools to kill to another.

[Gamer Ftw]

Why would I do that?
You must be very young to accuse someone of trolling or bashing for not liking a game or character.
and you shouldn't encourage people to break the rules as I am sure starting a Gaider is a git [whatever that may be] thread would be breaking them.
If you are not open to listening to criticism maybe you should go play Lego's like a nice child.

[spacepopeadventures]

Who cares if David Gaider is a nice man or not? Do you know if the person who designed your laptop is a nice person, and if you knew, would it matter? If you'd buy a DA game you don't otherwise like on the basis that DG is a saint, or you'd boycott a DA game you'd enjoy because you think DG's an a-hole, you're acting against your own interests as a gamer, surely.

Basically, I can see that you're very interested in your own opinion of DG, but I can't fathom why you think anyone else should care.

[Gamer Ftw]

Well my original point was It doesn't seem like the staff is listening to what the gamers want, why wouldn't you care about that?
Everyone I know loved the camp dialogues but "hey we will just disregard what you think because we don't want to do that now".
So we get a game that is rushed with repeated scenery and dalish that are are suddenly welsh.
And if we protest?
"hey too bad no one cares what you think"
because they know people will buy no matter how bad it gets just because of the Bioware label.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 23 avril 2011 - 07:34 .

[spacepopeadventures]

I care about how the devs' actions affect the game we ultimately get. I'm disheartened by the fact that DG thinks "rambling" fireside chats are a bad thing, that someone clearly thought gamers wouldn't mind seeing the same dozen rooms over and over again, that we didn't get much of a choice in the ending, and so on. These are all valid complaints to make.

I don't care if DG was rude to some dude over modding a forum flame war, or if he (shocker!) disagreed with someone who criticised a character. That's irrelevant; DG could be the biggest d-bag ever and help create a great DA3, or be a prince among men and still create a steaming pile of crap. The proof is in the pudding--so why bother arguing about the virtue of the chef? That's just a sideshow.

Modifié par spacepopeadventures, 23 avril 2011 - 07:48 .

[Gamer Ftw]

Or is that attitude from them the reason that a good game like Da2 isn't great like it should be?