244 réponses à ce sujet

[TUHD]

*pops back into the thread*
Persephone, thanks for being a good sport... if you ever want to have an private discussion, PM me.

@Others in topic: I made this topic both to spark an discussion, as well as to hold an mirror towards the devs. Were I close to the 'Allowed' line with some of my lines? Maybe. But GamerFTW, I didn't create this thread to bash David Gaider - I've got some issues with his behaviour, but I want the devs to read, listen and act upon feedback - not to have this thread locked because of bashing.

Modifié par TUHD, 23 avril 2011 - 08:48 .

[AkiKishi]

People gravitate to companies because they like what the company makes. When that ceases to be the case they move on. It remains to be seen whether DA2 was a blip or a sea change.

If DA3 had Mike Laidlaws name on it , it get's put under intense scrutiny before purchase.

[Gamer Ftw]

Of course It is bashing to point out the emperor has no clothes lol.
I shall bow out of the conversation and leave you to it then.

[Elhanan]

...Up to this day, Mike Laidlaw has refused to recognize the fact that the disappointed fans have any kind of point - keeping on indirectly insulting them over and over again. The flames are still raging, since the mods still let any pro-DA2 flaming go unchecked unless attented on, but keep on crushing down hard on people who are posting slightly offending threads just because the posters are massively frustrated and worry about the way the DA-series are going...

I find this to be somewhat bogus. While the flames do rage, trolls in any camp deserve to be crushed and their threads locked, and this has occured AFAIK, Now I understand that if you are taking sides in this 'debate', you may see and read  more of one side than another, so it may appear that bias exists. But as one that barely knows of anything involving the statements of ML (nor cares), I do not see the apathy of Bioware at all, as they have ample negative threads still active as evidence to the contrary.

Love 'em or hate 'em, Bioware seems to play well with others.

[Persephone]

TUHD wrote...

*pops back into the thread*
Persephone, thanks for being a good sport... if you ever want to have an private discussion, PM me.

@Others in topic: I made this topic both to spark an discussion, as well as to hold an mirror towards the devs. Were I close to the 'Allowed' line with some of my lines? Maybe. But GamerFTW, I didn't create this thread to bash David Gaider - I've got some issues with his behaviour, but I want the devs to read, listen and act upon feedback - not to have this thread locked because of bashing.

Good points in this post, Persephone definitely approves.

And while I do love DAII, I am completely with you when it comes to giving the Devs constructive feedback to work with. Because much as I appreciate DAII for adding some neat stuff to DA (Friendship/Rivalry for example), it also has some rather sloppy elements (Reused levels, bugs, rushed content...Act III, I'm looking at YOU!) that a few more months of dev time could have taken care of. It's a pattern within the DA franchise, I think. Looking at DAO, once the Landsmeet is called, there are bugs, the ending is rushed etc. And Awakening....eeeeeeeeegads, worst finale like ever. While in the ME franchise the last quarter of each game is the crowning highlight. (ME: Ilos, final showdown on the Citadel. ME2: Suicide Mission.......darn, that sure kept me glued to my laptop) 

Modifié par Persephone, 23 avril 2011 - 11:17 .

[JaegerBane]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

Or is that attitude from them the reason that a good game like Da2 isn't great like it should be?

I am in agreement with spacepopadventures.... it's largely irrelevant as to what kind of attitude the developers/writers/staff have. Of course, adopting an antagonistic tone with the customers isn't realistically going to help anyone but from the point of view of delivering a game we enjoy, I can't see it being relevant. Identical rooms and daft storylines are just as bad if they're produced by polite or rude staff.

[Kajan451]

Ariella wrote...

So what, you sound jealous more than anything else.

Not my intent, maybe because i am no native speaker? Either way i am quite happy with my own path in life and wouldn't want to work for Bioware. I don't really agree with the course they are taking and i doubt i could work in such an enviroment.

Besides... nothing beats being your own boss


But, i will induldge you with the question of "so what?" Well, so what, was answered by me in the rest of the post. If you have an official title corresponding with your customers you cannot act as private person. Because people know you work at this place. They know what you do and if you happen to be the boss, they take your attitude as the attitude of someone calling the shots.

People make no differance between what you say in your spare time and how you act in your spare time and how you might be on a professional level. If they do not interact with you on a daily basis and have ample examples of the opposite they simply will assume you to be rude.

Thats so what. If you have an official tag on your name... no matter if people saw you in reallife being the head of your company... or if its on your Website... you have to choose your words carefully and need to swallow it down. Unless you are selling something noone else can provide you can't afford to be co**y.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

TUHD wrote...

jds1bio wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...

I agree with the Original Post

Shadowbanner wrote...

I'd wager that they have no experience in damage control

In my opinion they have no experiance in dealing with any kind of negative feedback.

In the past Months i have seen many fine examples on this board which just left me with the opinion some of the Devs are either incredibly arrogant or just plain d***s. I won't name names, because i do not want to turn this into a personal insult, but that "suck it up, princess" sounds believable. Even if it is made up, which is beyond my ability to judge, it sounds authentic enough.

Fourth, we need the link to David Gaider's comment.  While your comment may be well-intentioned, I'm not going to believe hearsay.

There you go....

No, that is fantastic! I swear, I am saving this image forever and ever to love with all my heart!  

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Everwarden wrote...






Bah. I hate to side with Darth Gaider.. but he's in the right on this one. 

Didn't someone respond to the OP's request? Obviously someone else might not be inclined to agree then.

Regardless, I can't see how such a reply would be in any way appropriate? 

[JabbaDaHutt30]

mykeme wrote...

TUHD wrote...


There you go....

Wow. I need to find a way to sig that. And by the way - Persephone really is a troll. It's just that she usually trolls DA2-bashing threads and has been caught praising Mr. Gaider on some occasions.

I thought she was the daughter of a lawyer? I must have misunderstood; no, sorry -- I am terrible with keeping track of such things!

[JabbaDaHutt30]

JaegerBane wrote...

Gamer Ftw wrote...

Or is that attitude from them the reason that a good game like Da2 isn't great like it should be?

I am in agreement with spacepopadventures.... it's largely irrelevant as to what kind of attitude the developers/writers/staff have. Of course, adopting an antagonistic tone with the customers isn't realistically going to help anyone but from the point of view of delivering a game we enjoy, I can't see it being relevant. Identical rooms and daft storylines are just as bad if they're produced by polite or rude staff.

I agree, in general. 

[JabbaDaHutt30]

IN1 wrote...

Either way, some miscommunication

Or some manipulation. 
Basically, DG told you to **** off when you were trying to frame Persephone, who, in my experience, is always correct and never offensive

Priceless. I wonder, can I -- no, can I -- refer to this post in the future?

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...

I agree with the Original Post

Shadowbanner wrote...

I'd wager that they have no experience in damage control

In my opinion they have no experiance in dealing with any kind of negative feedback.

In the past Months i have seen many fine examples on this board which just left me with the opinion some of the Devs are either incredibly arrogant or just plain d***s. I won't name names, because i do not want to turn this into a personal insult, but that "suck it up, princess" sounds believable. Even if it is made up, which is beyond my ability to judge, it sounds authentic enough.

If not for  Luke Barrett, who has restored my faith in at least some members of the team, i would most likely have accepted the Team responsible for DA as beyond hope.

But i make no mistake, its not like my opinion would matter either way. All i can hope for is that someone is still reading these threads and maybe has a word with some members of the Team.

After all, adding insult to injury is never the way to go.

And as Artist, i simply have to say: If you can't deal with ignoring people bad mouthing your work, and still remain a civil and smiling facade, no matter how much it hurts that your work is considered bad by people, then you should be looking for a different profession.

Not even Rockstars and Movie Celebrities can get away with being a total ass insulting, unless they are Charlie Sheen (it seems).

Sadly, this seems to be true. They appear arrogant and dismissive, with a few notable exceptions. For example, many, many posts I have read include the complaint:

"There is not enough companion interaction and/or character growth. "

This includes postings from people who like DA 2 equally/more than DA:O. However, I just found out that David Gaider posted this:

=====================================================================================

"If you felt less connected to your followers, that's too bad. There
could be many reasons for that, but if the requirement to someone
feeling connected is having long, rambling conversations in the party
camp... I can safely say that's unlikely to happen again. I could see
front-loading the characters a bit more so players are more thoroughly
introduced (as it was, a lot of the character interaction ended up in
Act 2 quite by accident) but I have absolutely no intention of
returning to the reams of expository dialogue as a replacement for
character development anytime soon"

Full text at:

social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/305/index/7154827/1


=====================================================================================

I'm sorry, but dimissing a major, standing out like a sore thumb concern and complaint of people with arrogance is not a good thing to do. "Too bad?" Yes, indeed it is. Too bad for them. There are others, and I can spend my money there quite easily.

"Long, rambling conversations?" I see. I guess that makes those of us who actually like talking to our companions a lot and in-depth idiotic old fogeys who like "ramblings".  In the spirit of the post, I find that remark derogatory. Personally, I get the feeling of being pat-patted on the head, and send out to play and "grow up."

Sorry, but this just doesn't cut it. Not for me. If this is truly the direction they're heading in, then I wish them a pleasant journey. I'll be waving good-bye, with a few tears in my eye. It has been a great ride, but now we must part.

No, losing my piddly little euros won't bother them. But I'll feel great, and I will spend them on creators who do cater to my personal preferences. It's a simple as that.

---> sarcasm:
Heaven's forbid they actually listen to one of the major complaints about DA 2. Why, they might even apease people. And what's worse, they might even increase sales. And they certainly can't have that. They rather be "right", and look down their noses at all those whose opinion differs. /sarcasm

Gaider's diaper seems to be full as of late, the few posts he makes,  make him look like a whiney privelaged brat, saying "too bad" to your paying customers is a good way to turn a succesful business into a disaster, kind of like DA2.

The attitude of this company stinks, they basically hit the gold mine with a great new IP and then destroyed it in less than 2 years, way to go guys, keep up the good work.

I have to wonder: does he really intend to alienate his playerbase with his responses? I can't think of it any other way. I can't truly imagine that for at least two seconds, he might not have brainstormed the idea that some of his -- not all, just a few -- of his posts might come off as inappropriate from the position of a lead writer.

Just one, a single lapse in his consistent obliviousness that might have accounted for what he's going to say. Was that.. ever present? Can I conclude that it was? Yes? No?

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 23 avril 2011 - 03:29 .

[Elhanan]

Alienation? Try reading past 6 posts from the same peep to find it.....

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Elhanan wrote...

Alienation? Try reading past 6 posts from the same peep to find it.....

well, outside of the actual products, of course. 

[JabbaDaHutt30]

TUHD wrote...

*pops back into the thread*
Persephone, thanks for being a good sport... if you ever want to have an private discussion, PM me.

@Others in topic: I made this topic both to spark an discussion, as well as to hold an mirror towards the devs. Were I close to the 'Allowed' line with some of my lines? Maybe. But GamerFTW, I didn't create this thread to bash David Gaider - I've got some issues with his behaviour, but I want the devs to read, listen and act upon feedback - not to have this thread locked because of bashing.

Ha, well anything you could tell us about the lead writer's behaviour on this forum probably won't really be news to most of us. 

[Cutlass Jack]

Kajan451 wrote...

But, i will induldge you with the question of "so what?" Well, so what, was answered by me in the rest of the post. If you have an official title corresponding with your customers you cannot act as private person. Because people know you work at this place. They know what you do and if you happen to be the boss, they take your attitude as the attitude of someone calling the shots.

People make no differance between what you say in your spare time and how you act in your spare time and how you might be on a professional level. If they do not interact with you on a daily basis and have ample examples of the opposite they simply will assume you to be rude.

Thats so what. If you have an official tag on your name... no matter if people saw you in reallife being the head of your company... or if its on your Website... you have to choose your words carefully and need to swallow it down. Unless you are selling something noone else can provide you can't afford to be co**y.

I think I'm just going to go ahead and disagree with you completely. In his job as Head Writer his responsibilities in no way require coming to the forum, answering or PMs or writing posts. You don't have to like what he says. You should at least respect that he took time to come here and interract with us.

Because honestly, with the way everyone nitpicks and takes out of context every little thing he says, it would be much much easier for him to never come to the forums. Which you know is exactly what's going to happen if we keep going on like this. Personally I'd rather he frequent the forum and speak his mind honestly than not at all.

He's not required to come here and hold our hand and tell us what we want to hear. I'm not a big fan of everything he says but at least I'm appreciative he (and other members of the team) come here to respond to us. If someone gets offended easily, maybe they should be avoiding all sections of the forums except official Announcements.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 23 avril 2011 - 04:38 .

[Persephone]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...

But, i will induldge you with the question of "so what?" Well, so what, was answered by me in the rest of the post. If you have an official title corresponding with your customers you cannot act as private person. Because people know you work at this place. They know what you do and if you happen to be the boss, they take your attitude as the attitude of someone calling the shots.

People make no differance between what you say in your spare time and how you act in your spare time and how you might be on a professional level. If they do not interact with you on a daily basis and have ample examples of the opposite they simply will assume you to be rude.

Thats so what. If you have an official tag on your name... no matter if people saw you in reallife being the head of your company... or if its on your Website... you have to choose your words carefully and need to swallow it down. Unless you are selling something noone else can provide you can't afford to be co**y.

I think I'm just going to go ahead and disagree with you completely. In his job as Head Writer his responsibilities in no way require coming to the forum, answering or PMs or writing posts. You don't have to like what he says. You should at least respect that he took time to come here and interract with us.

Because honestly, with the way everyone nitpicks and takes out of context every little thing he says, it would be much much easier for him to never come to the forums. Which you know is exactly what's going to happen if we keep going on like this. Personally I'd rather he frequent the forum and speak his mind honestly than not at all.

He's not required to come here and hold our hand and tell us what we want to hear. I'm not a big fan of everything he says but at least I'm appreciative he (and other members of the team) come here to respond to us. If someone gets offended easily, maybe they should be avoiding all sections of the forums except official Announcements.

Very true, that. While I also do not agree with everything he says, I am glad he takes the time to communicate with the fanbase. And while I do love his sadistic snark (No one can keep you in suspense like he can, heh!), that one-liner was not necessary. Granted, I've seen much more offensive material hurled at him here, but two wrongs do not make a right. I do respect the man and I usually enjoy reading his posts. And I do hope that he will continue sharing info with us and engage in discussions too.

[JaegerBane]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...
I have to wonder: does he really intend to alienate his playerbase with his responses? I can't think of it any other way. I can't truly imagine that for at least two seconds, he might not have brainstormed the idea that some of his -- not all, just a few -- of his posts might come off as inappropriate from the position of a lead writer.

I think you're reading a little too deeply into it - the guy was probably sick of this THUD fella in question trying to get someone he was disagreeing with banned or warned, and basically told him to grow up. I mean, seriously, while flame wars are against the rules and whatnot, did it really merit someone running off to a mod (the lead writer, in this case) and shouting 'This is an outrage! I demand Retribution'? One would think that if it honestly were a problem the offended party would just leave the thread....

[TUHD]

*Bumps this up one more last time to see if there's any live to have had left in this 'old' thread*
As for JaegerBane, you're reading too much into it too...

[JaegerBane]

TUHD wrote...
As for JaegerBane, you're reading too much into it too...

Hey, I'm just commenting on the screenshot. It didn't leave a lot open to interpretation.

[TUHD]

JaegerBane wrote...

TUHD wrote...
As for JaegerBane, you're reading too much into it too...

Hey, I'm just commenting on the screenshot. It didn't leave a lot open to interpretation.

Still you managed to read too much into it, but whatever when it comes to that...

Modifié par TUHD, 23 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[JaegerBane]

TUHD wrote...
Still you managed to read too much into it, but whatever when it comes to that...

*sigh*

Sure, man. I'm sure you're just in an innocent party in all of this. Your one line demand for banstick-waving just came across wrong, right?

Modifié par JaegerBane, 23 avril 2011 - 07:55 .

[TUHD]

JaegerBane wrote...

TUHD wrote...
Still you managed to read too much into it, but whatever when it comes to that...

*sigh*

Sure, man. I'm sure you're just in an innocent party in all of this. Your one line demand for banstick-waving just came across wrong, right?

*facepalm* Now you're managing to read again too much in it. Were I an involved party? Yes. Should I have phrased that PM better? Likely. This is the last of it I am going to say about that darned PM - if you STILL manage to read too much into it, I am not going to argue it anymore.

[Uzaik]

JaegerBane wrote...

TUHD wrote...
Still you managed to read too much into it, but whatever when it comes to that...

*sigh*

Sure, man. I'm sure you're just in an innocent party in all of this. Your one line demand for banstick-waving just came across wrong, right?

A polite comment receiving a rude response... what is there to argue? Might as well not answer the PM instead of replying "Suck it up, princess."

(Boy, I love that quote).