244 réponses à ce sujet

[erynnar]

David Gaider wrote...

With regards to the link to the discussion regarding conversations, I think it's only fair to point anyone interested to some follow-up discussion I had here. I certainly wasn't bashing DAO or suggesting that wanting to talk to your companions is bad, simply that there are better ways of doing it than Q&A dialogue. As you'll see in that post, I'm also not suggesting that DA2 did everything perfectly. As always, this kind of work is a challenge -- and the writing team is going to have to keep in step with the changes that the rest of the project undergoes.

Naturally it's not really in my purview to discuss anything outside of the writing, but I'm always willing to listen to reasonable feedback-- and occasionally be baited into arguments even when I shouldn't. Comes with the territory, I guess, as does being called arrogant by anyone who dislikes my opinions. I don't really mind. If my only option was to interact with the community like I was their waiter (which I am not) I frankly would not come here at all. Thankfully there are a great number of peope here who make thoughtful posts, if occasionally empassioned ones, that make my occasional participation worthwhile.

As for the "moderator" thing, my job isn't to moderate these forums. I'll come here from time to time, and I'm listed as a moderator because I have the power to moderate if I so choose. I don't employ it very often. If someone wishes to contact an official channel, they should send a PM to the community liaison, Chris Priestly -- or customer service.

Thank you sir for your response. Very reasonable indeed. I wish I had been in on the discussion about the convos. Apparently I missed the boat.

[David Gaider]

erynnar wrote...
I wish I had been in on the discussion about the convos. Apparently I missed the boat.

The thread I linked to is recent. I don't always have the time to jump in and post, but I'll be reading it if you care to put in your two cents.

[Sabriana]

David Gaider wrote...

With regards to the link to the discussion regarding conversations, I think it's only fair to point anyone interested to some follow-up discussion I had here. I certainly wasn't bashing DAO or suggesting that wanting to talk to your companions is bad, simply that there are better ways of doing it than Q&A dialogue. As you'll see in that post, I'm also not suggesting that DA2 did everything perfectly. As always, this kind of work is a challenge -- and the writing team is going to have to keep in step with the changes that the rest of the project undergoes.

Naturally it's not really in my purview to discuss anything outside of the writing, but I'm always willing to listen to reasonable feedback-- and occasionally be baited into arguments even when I shouldn't. Comes with the territory, I guess, as does being called arrogant by anyone who dislikes my opinions. I don't really mind. If my only option was to interact with the community like I was their waiter (which I am not) I frankly would not come here at all. Thankfully there are a great number of peope here who make thoughtful posts, if occasionally empassioned ones, that make my occasional participation worthwhile.

As for the "moderator" thing, my job isn't to moderate these forums. I'll come here from time to time, and I'm listed as a moderator because I have the power to moderate if I so choose. I don't employ it very often. If someone wishes to contact an official channel, they should send a PM to the community liaison, Chris Priestly -- or customer service.

Oh dear.
David, what I meant to point out is, that while *I* certainly know who you are, there could possibly be folks who don't know that you are the lead-writer, first and foremost, and take their clue from the list. I know very well that you come to the forums as a 'private' person, mostly on your "off" time. You have been doing that for years, even though I didn't come on board until HotU.

But if people do mistake you for one of the mods, then couldn't it simply be because they see your name on the list?
That was not a critique, it was simply meant to point out that there was a cause for some people to think that you were the perfect person to PM.

Of course it would be most reasonable to contact Chris or John, and personally, if I had something to PM, John would be my first choice. But that's because I simply know from years of board-going that your interaction with the forums is mostly done to as the lead-writer, and to tweak our noses from time to time.

[jds1bio]

David Gaider wrote...

erynnar wrote...
I wish I had been in on the discussion about the convos. Apparently I missed the boat.

The thread I linked to is recent. I don't always have the time to jump in and post, but I'll be reading it if you care to put in your two cents.

And as the creator of that thread and someone who has posted and responded with you before, I would be interested in your thoughts.

[David Gaider]

Sabriana wrote...
But if people do mistake you for one of the mods, then couldn't it simply be because they see your name on the list?
That was not a critique, it was simply meant to point out that there was a cause for some people to think that you were the perfect person to PM.

Sure, but someone listed as a moderator is not an official channel of any sort. It just means we can moderate the forums. If someone intends to treat any moderator like a customer service agent, particularly when they only choose to act like a customer when it suits them, then quite frankly they've only themselves to blame.

I get that some people think I should be more polite, even when people aren't being polite to me. For the most part I'll respond in the same tone that someone speaks to me with. Beyond that, if "suck it up, princess" is the worst thing I can be accused of saying today, I doubt I'll lose any sleep over it.

Heck, I may even put it on a t-shirt.

Of course it would be most reasonable to contact Chris or John, and personally, if I had something to PM, John would be my first choice. But that's because I simply know from years of board-going that your interaction with the forums is mostly done to as the lead-writer, and to tweak our noses from time to time.

I'll point out that John is also a developer (a Cinematic Designer) who comes here out of personal interest, like myself. He just happens to be nicer than I am. He's no Ferret, of course, but who is really?

Modifié par David Gaider, 25 avril 2011 - 05:39 .

[Elhanan]

David Gaider wrote...

Heck, I may even put it on a t-shirt.

Now THAT could be a great DA2 tee! Meredith or Fenris on the front, too!

[Sabriana]

Aww, but John's shoulders are such a comfortable place to cry on. True enough, there can be only one Ferret in all the world, so I agree.

And I could never be mean to the person who wrote my all-time favorite pixel person. I've yet to uninstall HotU

[Dagiz]

Elhanan wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Heck, I may even put it on a t-shirt.

Now THAT could be a great DA2 tee! Meredith or Fenris on the front, too!

Think it should be Sandal...you know of those things that gets said under his breath type of deal that causes your character to go "Bwuh?    What did you just say?"  I'd find that funny.  

And it would be really funny to see someone crying to Priestly...he'd probably smack them with a trout. 

Modifié par Dagiz, 25 avril 2011 - 06:03 .

[Zjarcal]

David Gaider wrote...
Heck, I may even put it on a t-shirt.

I want one!!

Please make it happen. 

[jds1bio]

David Gaider wrote...

I get that some people think I should be more polite, even when people aren't being polite to me. For the most part I'll respond in the same tone that someone speaks to me with. Beyond that, if "suck it up, princess" is the worst thing I can be accused of saying today, I doubt I'll lose any sleep over it.

Heck, I may even put it on a t-shirt.

While I am one of those "some people", I wouldn't mind seeing that line make its way into the next DA game somehow.

My last word on the whole convincing, and who should/shouldn't be involved in making the game - if you don't like anything you've heard or read, then just don't pre-order.  Wait for the game to come out, and/or read reviews from your trusted sources.  But after posting with lots of you, and hearing from BioWare through interviews and the forums, I see just how many possibilities exist to make the next game even better than the last two.  There are many.  And at some point we're going to have to let BioWare just get on with crafting the game.

[Esbatty]

David Gaider wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
But if people do mistake you for one of the mods, then couldn't it simply be because they see your name on the list?
That was not a critique, it was simply meant to point out that there was a cause for some people to think that you were the perfect person to PM.

Sure, but someone listed as a moderator is not an official channel of any sort. It just means we can moderate the forums. If someone intends to treat any moderator like a customer service agent, particularly when they only choose to act like a customer when it suits them, then quite frankly they've only themselves to blame.

I get that some people think I should be more polite, even when people aren't being polite to me. For the most part I'll respond in the same tone that someone speaks to me with. Beyond that, if "suck it up, princess" is the worst thing I can be accused of saying today, I doubt I'll lose any sleep over it.

Heck, I may even put it on a t-shirt.

Of course it would be most reasonable to contact Chris or John, and personally, if I had something to PM, John would be my first choice. But that's because I simply know from years of board-going that your interaction with the forums is mostly done to as the lead-writer, and to tweak our noses from time to time.

I'll point out that John is also a developer (a Cinematic Designer) who comes here out of personal interest, like myself. He just happens to be nicer than I am. He's no Ferret, of course, but who is really?

PLEASE PLEASE put that line in the next game. I so badly want to be told that by an NPC or be able to tell that to an NPC. It would be so wonderous

[Dagiz]

jds1bio wrote...

My last word on the whole convincing, and who should/shouldn't be involved in making the game - if you don't like anything you've heard or read, then just don't pre-order.  Wait for the game to come out, and/or read reviews from your trusted sources.  But after posting with lots of you, and hearing from BioWare through interviews and the forums, I see just how many possibilities exist to make the next game even better than the last two.  There are many.  And at some point we're going to have to let BioWare just get on with crafting the game.

My snarky response is: 

But that would make sense.   And common sense has no place here given the amount of threads that pop up decrying the game or an anspect of the game. 

End of Snarky response.

I'd say something else....but I  can't think straight right now. 

[dantares83]

Persephone wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...

But, i will induldge you with the question of "so what?" Well, so what, was answered by me in the rest of the post. If you have an official title corresponding with your customers you cannot act as private person. Because people know you work at this place. They know what you do and if you happen to be the boss, they take your attitude as the attitude of someone calling the shots.

People make no differance between what you say in your spare time and how you act in your spare time and how you might be on a professional level. If they do not interact with you on a daily basis and have ample examples of the opposite they simply will assume you to be rude.

Thats so what. If you have an official tag on your name... no matter if people saw you in reallife being the head of your company... or if its on your Website... you have to choose your words carefully and need to swallow it down. Unless you are selling something noone else can provide you can't afford to be co**y.

I think I'm just going to go ahead and disagree with you completely. In his job as Head Writer his responsibilities in no way require coming to the forum, answering or PMs or writing posts. You don't have to like what he says. You should at least respect that he took time to come here and interract with us.

Because honestly, with the way everyone nitpicks and takes out of context every little thing he says, it would be much much easier for him to never come to the forums. Which you know is exactly what's going to happen if we keep going on like this. Personally I'd rather he frequent the forum and speak his mind honestly than not at all.

He's not required to come here and hold our hand and tell us what we want to hear. I'm not a big fan of everything he says but at least I'm appreciative he (and other members of the team) come here to respond to us. If someone gets offended easily, maybe they should be avoiding all sections of the forums except official Announcements.

Very true, that. While I also do not agree with everything he says, I am glad he takes the time to communicate with the fanbase. And while I do love his sadistic snark (No one can keep you in suspense like he can, heh!), that one-liner was not necessary. Granted, I've seen much more offensive material hurled at him here, but two wrongs do not make a right. I do respect the man and I usually enjoy reading his posts. And I do hope that he will continue sharing info with us and engage in discussions too.

yeah, very very true. While I do agree sometimes, he came across as 'pushy' and had (a few times), been insistent that his ideas were 100% right, and we, as customers should take it as it is. But I do appreciate the fact that he comes to the forum now and then to reply posts that can be very insulting... n we must agree that sometimes, he provides very interesting insights not from the games...

[tiernanlshaw]

wow.  this thread is all over the place with equal amounts of insanity and politeness.  lol.

quite frankly the original op is way off base imo.  and i know there is very little honor in internet communciation, but i generally see any kind of PM the same way i see a private conversation.  its for the people involved with it.  to come out and name names and offer screen shots of the interactions screams "i have low character".  so you lose the high ground right away there imo in regards with what is and is not an appropriate way to speak to someone.  you are acting like a child telling on their sibling.  i find the remark "suck it up, princess" quite appropriate personally.  speaking as someone who spent 10 yrs trying to make it as a musician (and failing miserably i might add), the general thought process of an artist whose work is under attack is to tell the attackers to kindly go screw themselves.  obvioulsy the folks at bioware have acted in a much more appropriate and pc manner than many of us here on these boards would. 

personally i really hate the pigeon-holing form both sides.  it sounds an awful lot like the jocks vs nerds argument.  every time i hear someone raise hell about the direction of the game and relate it to dumbing down for "mindless" fps players i cringe.  fps players are no more a bunch of slack jawed morons than rpg players are a bunch of pimple faced virgins with one hand on the keyboard and the other in a bag of chips.  there are plenty of both that play both kinds of games.  i myself list 5 rpgs in my top 10 favorite games of all time, and was once a 8 hr a day WoW player in my heyday, but the video game i am best at is madden, and at one time i was a top 50 player on the ps2 and often competed in and placed in the money in many a local tourney.  however i play madden maybe once a week nowadays and play bioware games (da and me) religously in an attempt to set up perfect run-throughs to have import files ready for the next sequel in the series.  and when im not doing taht im on my console having a blast playing gears of war with my live buddies, or at my pc having a blast with my modern warfare friends.  so which group do i fit in?  and im sorry, but to say anything about fps games as relating to having poor intelligence is just ignorant.  i have seen more intelligence and skill from the best modern warfare players than i have ever been forced to use on ANY rpg game.  in fact it is not a stretch at all for me to say that far too high a percentage of rpg's require no more focus than reading a book.  there are great challenges out there, but dont go putting rpg players on some moutaintop above fps players.  that anthill youre standing on really aint that tall, and quite frankly there are a lot of us who dont appreciate being pigeon-holed either way.    fyi tho, for my money dragon age 2 is one of the most difficult games i have ever played on nightmare.  the amount of frustration i felt while playing its insanely difficult encounters is surpassed only by my memories of destroying 3 controllers while playing ninja gaiden on the xbox.  and xbox controllers (the original fatties) are really hard to break.  lol.  on nightmare this game was wicked hard.  i didnt find it dumbed down at all. 

and to the idea that the mods are biased?  i will have you know i was giving a ban not too long ago for very vehemently arguing that just about every console player i know liked 2 much more than origins and that most of the hate seemed to be coming from the pc crowd.  it was essentially a fairly pro-bioware stance.  and i got banned so im not really seeing a pro-bioware bias.  at least not in regards to the argument its self.  it has become clear to me tho that certain words hurt their feelings more than others.  so i have been forced to take my limited vocabulary up a notch.  lol.  still.  i wasnt really met with disdain by any bioware mod when arguing in defense of my actions and my feelings that my ban was a result of selective moderating.  people are people tho.  everyone has a bit of a bias in them somewhere.  

all of that being said bioware doesnt have to convince me of anything.  ive loved all of their games so far.  from baldurs gate, to kotor, to mass effect, to dragon age 2.  i like trying new thing and  i abhore any sequel that is essentially the same game with different characters.  to me change is good.  i very much look forward to dragon age 3.  thats not to say i dont have complaints.  i hated the recycled maps and useless inventory since i couldnt equip my companions.  plus looting in general seems to have lost a lot of its former appeal.  but all in all i finished dragon age 2 with a much larger smile on my face than i had when i finished origins.  and that was a pretty big smile.  so as long as they keep challenging the status quo that "fans" keep trying to attach to them im more than confident they will improve the game further.  at the very least im very hopeful they will ditch the recycled maps.  lol.   

[Demon Velsper]

David Gaider wrote...

Beyond that, if "suck it up, princess" is the worst thing I can be accused of saying today, I doubt I'll lose any sleep over it.

Well, it's certainly a step up from just calling people idiots. I'll give you that, princess.

[Dracotamer]

+1 to OP.

[Edge2177]

"The princess you are looking for is in another Castle."

[TUHD]

*Peeks into thread* *Is amazed the thread really went all over the place* Hm... doubting whether I'd leave it be or request it locked...
@David Gaider: thanks for at least popping into the thread. But you've done the thread a disservice since it went totally haywire now, LOL.

[Sabriana]

Oh now, don't despair TUHD. Lately threads have the habit of jumping totally off-rail, only to jump unexpectedly back on again after a while.

Hope dies last.

[Dio Demon]

Yeah I just came from a thread that seemed to hate David Gaider and Bioware's decision to bring back Leliana and I made it a thread about DA2 attempting to evolve the RPG genre.

It was supposed to be about DA3 so I kind of brought it back on topic.


But on topic ... ooh a butterfly. Nah seriously they wouldn't need to try that hard to convince me to buy a new DA game. I think the cliffhanger however irritating since they ended it in the middle of the climax ... I still want to find out what happens ... what happened with my Warden My Hawke Will we be able to romance Bianca? 

Modifié par Crazy Eyed One, 25 avril 2011 - 10:59 .

[Cutlass Jack]

David Gaider wrote...

Heck, I may even put it on a t-shirt.

It would be a best seller on the Bioware store. Just putting that hint right out............here.

Still waiting for the 'Alistair doesn't love me' Snowglobe.

[_Aine_]

David Gaider wrote...

Heck, I may even put it on a t-shirt.

I'd buy that one. =) 

[Kreidian]

David Gaider wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
But if people do mistake you for one of the mods, then couldn't it simply be because they see your name on the list?
That was not a critique, it was simply meant to point out that there was a cause for some people to think that you were the perfect person to PM.

Sure, but someone listed as a moderator is not an official channel of any sort. It just means we can moderate the forums. If someone intends to treat any moderator like a customer service agent, particularly when they only choose to act like a customer when it suits them, then quite frankly they've only themselves to blame.

I get that some people think I should be more polite, even when people aren't being polite to me. For the most part I'll respond in the same tone that someone speaks to me with. Beyond that, if "suck it up, princess" is the worst thing I can be accused of saying today, I doubt I'll lose any sleep over it.

Heck, I may even put it on a t-shirt.

Of course it would be most reasonable to contact Chris or John, and personally, if I had something to PM, John would be my first choice. But that's because I simply know from years of board-going that your interaction with the forums is mostly done to as the lead-writer, and to tweak our noses from time to time.

I'll point out that John is also a developer (a Cinematic Designer) who comes here out of personal interest, like myself. He just happens to be nicer than I am. He's no Ferret, of course, but who is really?

Just so you know. I would totally buy that t-shirt!


Especially if it had Isabella on it. What can I say? That pirate is sexy as hell.


p.s.  wow, looks like I'm not the only one who loves this t-shirt idea. Well now you have to make it happen guys, you know those things will sell! 

Modifié par Kreidian, 25 avril 2011 - 02:55 .

[OhoniX]

My last word on the whole convincing, and who should/shouldn't be involved in making the game - if you don't like anything you've heard or read, then just don't pre-order. Wait for the game to come out, and/or read reviews from your trusted sources. But after posting with lots of you, and hearing from BioWare through interviews and the forums, I see just how many possibilities exist to make the next game even better than the last two. There are many. And at some point we're going to have to let BioWare just get on with crafting the game.

Thread winner.

Basically, at the end of the day, it's not Bioware's job to make the game you want, much less to convince you to be happy with a game you do not enjoy. Their job is to make the game that they think will sell best, and arguably DA2 succeed at this, and a DA3 in the same mold might do as well or better, it might not. You don't have to like that game. Bioware does not have to care that you do not like that game. All they need to care about is whether enough people like the game they do make.