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[Rakhasa]

After four or five aborted attempts to learn the ropes, I finally finished my first playthrough

(on an unrelated note... I think I am a bit dissapointed on the Archdemon. I don't know if I got better at battles or it simply was incompetent, but I had a FAR harder time killing Andraste or the Broodmother)

But back to the topic. On my game I was disgustinly nice and polite with all my companions, to avoid the dreaded "Nimwit the Selfcentered #3 dissaproves" -not to mention all those rewards I passed up.
But since I finished the game with 100 aproval from everyone, and still had more than half the presents cluttering around, this time I will not bother, and use a proper RP approach, with a mage who hates the chantry and being prisioner in the circle, but prefers to be diplomatic and not scream it to every templar he meets or start a doomed revolution and make things worse for other mages.

My question is, is the Sten sidequest rewards worth rescuing Sten in the first place? Because Sten was the companion than irritated me the most, since I find the Qum as protrayed by Paradox as a truly horrid religion, my mage would not really consider to free form priion someone who murdered an entire family down to the children without a far better explanation than Sten gives in Lothering, and he certainly would not stay quiet when some bastard tell him than his proper place is chained in a cellar with his tongue cut.

Not to mention the moron dissaproves everything than does not involve rushing superior enemies without any plan or backup (no wonder his military expedition ended with is entire unit dead at the very first engagement) I have Alistair, who is a friend if a bit too naive, for a tank, and Ogrem if I really need a two handed weapon wielder. 

I may have promised  Flemeth,whom I owed my life, to protect her **** of a daughter; I may feel bad because I killed the mad wife of the drunk, and I would hate to kill in cold blood the man who surrended, even if he is an assasin. But I owe nothing to the child murderer I meet in the jail, to keep him as my friend and companion and trust him to watch while I sleep.

[Arthur Cousland]

Did you happen to follow Sten's dialogue through to the end? He does become more interesting, the more you get to know him. If needed, check the dialogue guide at the wiki site.

Btw...the high dragon isn't Andraste, despite what Kolgrim and co. think. The guardian at the gauntlet confirms this.

[Rakhasa]

Bah, what does a millenia dead guy knows... Of course she was Andraste! She got burned at the stake, so she obviously chose a flame resistant body for her second round. She probably should have gone for a different body, one than, while slightly less durable, would also be less loot filled for random money hungry Grey Wardens passing through.


As for Sten, Yes, I followed his dialogue. But my point is form a roleplaying perspective; all the companions become more interesting later. But the Warden needs a reason to take that time to know then in the first place!

I want to separate what I know as a player, and what Orion knows as a wizard -and in some things Orion knows far more than the game mechanics allow.For instance, most the information dumps you get on the game are necessary for a player perspective, but ridiculous for the warden. I am an elf who lived at least fifteen years in the Circle tower, with free access to one of the best libraries of Ferelden, and graduated this morning. Strangely enough, I already know which are the four schools of magic, what is the fade, who are the Templars, the basic history of my species, and the name of the messiah of the religion I have been raised in. I will activate those dialogs to get the codex entries, but the knowdledge is taken for granted.

I am going for the "reluctant hero": My character will be a pragmatic (and honorable despite all his efforts) mage who dislikes the chantry,but knows than rebelling will get him dead and worsen the fate of the next mage, and has researched a bit about options for escape. If the Jowan disaster had not happened, he would have waited a few months and the first chance he got he would have hightailed to Orzammar and then Tevinter. As a Grey Warden, he cannot stand all those useles morons asking for help all the time, but will help then anyway because he does not want the incompetents to die -****ing all the time.

So in game I will chose the "polite" dialog options but will ignore anything the chantry/templars ask me to do unless it is convenient for me (so the money grubing Mother in Lothering can go hang herself, I bloody need those silver far more than her). But I need to think on reasons to pick companionsr:

-I owe Flemeth, and need all the help I can get, so Morrigan comes, even if I would not really trust her for a long time.

-Leliana is mad as a hatter, but we are back to "need help". I am a penniless tratior, I am in no position to be choosy.

-Shale is a golem whom I have the control rod. When she turns to be freewilled, well, I am a circle mague.I can relate with wating to be free. But I will not, under any circunstances, try to make experiments with his cristals.

-Zevran is an assasin. But this early in the game I will not be hardened enough to kill a man who surrendered (that's for Loghain). But I also cannot risk an assasin coming behing me, so I will accept his offer and keep a close watch on him. That will give an excuse to learn his hidden depths and befriend him

-Oghren is a drunk. But he is the only one who knows the path to Branka, so I need him. And afterwards, I killed his wife. I feel sorry for him, so I will not turn him down.

-Wynne I, unfortunately, know well enough (the first conversation you have with her says "you will not know me"... ahem, given what a busybody she is, I am sure she would be infamous among the apprentices). I do not, in fact, want her as a companion. Sadly, she is the kind of person than invites herself. Resitance is futile -and the warden is young enough to have clear memories of her Naughty Apprentice Scold, chapters 1-312. If Irving cannot get her to stay, what chance do you have?

-Loghain. I coud not care less for Calian, I barely knew Duncan, and I suspect I would have been on Urdred's side if I had stayed. But selling elves as slaves to bloodmages? Sorry, dude. War hero or ot, you are just another Boss Battle on the path to the Archdemon.

And then there is Sten. This man murdered a family, and he gives no acceptable excuse (and when he gives it,it's even worse. He killed the family who healed him, because he lost his sword). The mage knows what Qunari do to mages, and, while he does not know details, he knows enough than the Beresaad is part of the regular army, and may even know than "Sten" is a military rank -this is no random Qunari, he is a representative of the guys who would cut your tongue.

If the quest for the sword will give me some maningful reward, then I can bull**** some reason (a moment of weakness, or something), but as things stand I don't think my mage would let his out of the jail.

[GSSAGE7]

You have to remember, Qunari have a completely different set of values than the other party members. He refers to Asala as his soul. While the idea of equating a physical object with your soul may be questionable at the least, he freaked out and killed them. He obviously knew he done messed up, hence why he was willing to face whatever justice he deserved. If you unlock the cafe without telling him you're a Grey Warden, or that the chantry is releasing him, he says something like "The cage is open, but I'm not free." He only leaves with you if he thinks it would be a way to atone.
If you want a reason, how about the fact that he's a giant soldier, and his release is the one thing that Morrigan and Alistair agree on. Even Leliana, who was with the chantry when he was sentenced, said how awful it was that he was locked up.

[Rakhasa]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

You have to remember, Qunari have a completely different set of values than the other party members. He refers to Asala as his soul. While the idea of equating a physical object with your soul may be questionable at the least, he freaked out and killed them.

But we are back to player knowdeledge. We know this; Orion Surana the mage barely out of his teens doesn't. He would only get to understand all those reasons after he rescues Sten and befriends him.

I think I will rescue him anyway, if for no other reason it's the only thing Alistair and Morrigan agree. Extra XP are extra XP, but I will not go out of my way to be extra nice to him, and see what happens.

[GSSAGE7]

Rakhasa wrote...

GSSAGE7 wrote...

You have to remember, Qunari have a completely different set of values than the other party members. He refers to Asala as his soul. While the idea of equating a physical object with your soul may be questionable at the least, he freaked out and killed them.

But we are back to player knowdeledge. We know this; Orion Surana the mage barely out of his teens doesn't. He would only get to understand all those reasons after he rescues Sten and befriends him.

I think I will rescue him anyway, if for no other reason it's the only thing Alistair and Morrigan agree. Extra XP are extra XP, but I will not go out of my way to be extra nice to him, and see what happens.

But you don't find out about the sword until he tells you. All you know is that he killed a family, and let himself get caught. You can ask him for details later, and he mentions the sword, and how it is his soul. Until that conversation, you'd have no idea about the lost sword.

[Ferretinabun]

To be honest, you have a point. Sten doesn't really help his case by simply stating his crime with no explanation of the circumstances. From an RP perspective it is a little difficult to rationalise why any warden would release him really, perhaps apart from the fact that he looks like an excellent fighter to have on your side (assuming he'll stay on your side).

[Asch Lavigne]

I agree with what you are saying about Sten. The game makes a poor introduction/case for wanting you let him out of the cage. I also felt this way about Zevran and Leliana at first. I mean Zevran wants to kill you then claims he wants out and is scared that his buddies will come after him, oh please. And Leliana, a vision? Another yeah right. Especially if you're playing a Dalish or a Dwarf who could care less about the Maker.

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 23 avril 2011 - 04:15 .

[Rakhasa]

Ferretinabun wrote...

To be honest, you have a point. Sten doesn't really help his case by simply stating his crime with no explanation of the circumstances. From an RP perspective it is a little difficult to rationalise why any warden would release him really, perhaps apart from the fact that he looks like an excellent fighter to have on your side (assuming he'll stay on your side).

Yeah that's the point. My warden is an elf mage -in other words, a runt with no real physical skills. Sten probably outweights him by two hundred pounds. So here you are, a young mage, weeks out of the tower for the first time in your life. Most everyone you met since leaving is dead. You are desesperate, have no idea how to live on the land, and probably slightly agoraphobic. Your "brother" has barely spoken to you in weeks, has dumped all responsability on your shoulders, is a bloody Templar, and the first thing he said to you was a tasteless joke about how he does not like mages, because they turn you into a toad (before that the last time you dealt with Templas was when they were about to take you to Aeonar... har, har, how fun). Your other companion is an Apostate, which may both attract and scare you, but she is also a ****. At least the dog likes you and brings you half chewed cake.

So now you finally reach civilization. Wonderful, you are not only broke, you are a wanted criminal. And, while the horde approaches, this village of morons keeps wasting your time persuading merchants, making traps (traps!) and hunting bloody spiders. The Mother has the gall to ask for money when you ask for help. You have been forced to kill humans for the first time in your life. The only two people who seem to want to help are yet another templar, who is too busy, and this chick who probably is mad, but you really are not in any position to be choosy.

So because you obvioulsy don't have enough problems, why don't you leave the completely unknown murderer, who is far bigger and stronger than you, out of prision and give him weapons?

Other companions are problematic too (specially Zevran), but by the time you meet him the Warden has had time to get some experience and it is easier to find a justification. I think they made a mistake placing Sten so early in the game in Lothering; the Warden needs too much faith in a dangerous stranger, and Leliana is already stretching it for some companions (dwarves, dalish, and others who dislike the chantry), but at least she does not look really dangerous, just mad. One leap of faith is good, but two in the same day?. He should have been jailed in the Calendal docks (that's where the battle was anyway).

[Gangster No.1]

Concerning Sten, doesn't it make anyone immensely curious why such a hulk of a man allowed to get captured? And I mean that from the point of view of a character who just met Sten, not the player. I'm pretty sure Sten could have wiped the floor with the guards that arrested him with his bare hands if he had chosen to do so, judging from his stature alone. So, why didn't he do that and instead came along peacefully?

That alone is enough reason for my characters to wish to learn more about Sten, even if it requires to have him released.

[FuzzyBee]

I'm with you Rakhasa. There are some playthroughs where my character will release Sten because he/she thinks it's cruel to put someone in a cage for the "mercy" of the darkspawn. I will release Sten, but I don't want to let him loose to possibly commit murder again and so I take him with me to seek attonment for his crime but also so I can keep an eye on him. I don't want to be even partly responsible for another gruesom murder afterall. There are times when my character just doesn't care about that, desparate times call for desparate measures and if I can use Sten, I will. With my mage that hated the circle and the chantry, however, I did let him out. I threatened the preist, of course, but the reason I let him out was because I knew it would ****** off the chantry. I didn't want him with me because of the way the Qunari treat mages so I just let him go. Yep, I hated the chantry so much that I set a murderer free and told him to leave. Other times, though, it just doesn't make sense to let him go and so no matter the reward, I will leave him to the darkspawn. Isnt' his sword only teir 3? I can't remember right now.

[Malak Darkhunter]

I've started an Arcane Warrior, that hates the circle and the chantry, who leans more on the apostated side, Will probably be a loner, might take morrigan along on a date a time or two, other than that not much interaction with the other companions. I've beat this game twice now, and to me most of the companions are a bunch of crybabbys. I don't like having to play nice to win approval from my companions, I prefer to deal with the buisness at hand in a hardend grey-warden fashion. All the other whinnie's can stay at camp.

[Rheia]

If you are grasping at straws as to why recruit Sten when, you could always listen to Morrigan, who is always nothing but practical. I think I recall her commenting that Sten would be very useful, and with a darkspawn horde to stop, you can never have enough allies.

Also, Sten is bluntly honest. He doesn't sugarcoat his complicity, nor does he specifically ask you for mercy, or even threaten you. If you do the proper introduction and ask for his, he'll even give you a backhanded compliment.

So, since you are giving a chance to 'bat-**** crazy' Leliana, why not Sten? All of your companions save plot reason Alistair/Morrigan are leaps of faith in one way or another, anyway. I guess it boils down to when your character decides enough is enough and tries to make do with what he/she already has.

(Slightly, off-topic, if you do recruit Sten and plan to get the most out of his character, always keep him in your active party. He has a ton of hidden dialog that only triggers first time you go outside in the new area. Walking out of Redcliff chantry triggers a long series of conversations on the nature of wisdom, Inside the mage circle there is a trigger on mage treatment in qunari society, Denerim market has a trigger for series of conversations regarding children, and I don't recall where, but there is another one about tal-vashos.) And if you do the last of the 'wisdom/faith' topics late enough in game when Sten has high approval, asking about faith/how qunari convert people, Sten will express his wish that you'll never find out. His voice acting is great there, he actually sounds regretful.)

[Shibby Razel]

Sten isn't his real name, this guy screams sketchy from the start

[-______________-]

I just got sten on my second playthrough (still early game), and i like him. his blunt but honest opinions are a refreshing change from, Alistairs whining and from Morrigans obscure views.

[GSSAGE7]

Shibby Razel wrote...

Sten isn't his real name, this guy screams sketchy from the start

For all intents and purposes, it is. What the Qunari reguard as names is closer to the modern Social Security Number.
Here is what I wonder. What happens if two Sten meet? How do they address eachother? What about the lower ranked soldiers? What if the Sten has to tell one of his soldiers to do one thing, while another has to do something else? How do they avoid getting confused?

[Esther]

When I played with two warriors I found Sten very helpful as an offensive warrior while using Alistair as a defensive tank.

At first I did not like him too much either, but as I befriended him, I started to appreciate his blunt straight forward talking.
And he surprised me when he told me that he had caged himself.