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Pardon my rage...


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#1
AdmiralCheez

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... but I need to get this out of my system.

The one thing that annoys me most is that game developers often assume the only people that play their games are young, horny males who have never had a girlfriend and probably will never get one.  Female characters, if present at all, are frequently given over-exaggerated "hot" bodies jammed into revealing and too-tight outfits.

Bioware is no exception, but to their credit they often made a joke out of it to mock their cheap pandering to a seventeen-year-old's erection and backed off on the whole boobies thing when it wasn't appropriate.  For example, take ME1: it had an entire race of sexy babes, but Bioware was able to get away with this because they poked fun at the trope and also gave the asari an interesting culture and deep characters.  There was only one case of extreme cleavage (Matriarch Boobnezia Benezia), and none of the female leads were overtly sexualized (FemShep and Ashley especially were pretty plain in their body-types and never wore anything incredibly revealing apart from certain types of armor that had a tendency to ride up the crack).  So I let them get away with it.

And then came ME2.  Suddenly, boobs, boobs everywhere (plus a few manly bits this go-round: check out Jacob and Thane.  Specifically, check out Jacob's butt, which really is as bad as Miranda's save for it got less screen time).  Now, I didn't complain too much because for the most part it fit the characters and again they mocked themselves for doing it (Miranda's buttshots and her encounter with a certain Eclipse commando).  It only really got stupid when people started running around with naught but a breather mask, and at the very least all the characters were interesting enough as people that I was able to look past the cleavage.  However, Tali's reduction into a "shrinking violet" type of character set off alarm bells in my head, and the presentation of all female characters in Genesis (the PS3 comic) would have made me punch Casey Hudson in the teeth had I not been able to transfer my blame to the Dark Horse team, who tend to kind of suck anyway.  At least they didn't try to sex up FemShep apart from some really agressive flirting which I usually avoided or skipped over anyway.  So again, Bioware got a pass.  A very shaky pass, but at least it wasn't Soul Calibur or Dead or Alive.

But now, looking at the new information trickling in about ME3, I am beginning to suspect things are going to get worse (perhaps better for those of you who play alone and with one hand).  I know we know next to nothing about ME3, but Ashley's new look (sans bun, bigger ******, and a tight body suit) plus their comment about Jack being softened and matured raised a few red flags.  The PS3M article, which I shouldn't pay attention to because it was written by a bunch of very randy morons who didn't bother to do their homework, only made matters worse by reminding everyone how hot and sexy all the female characters are.

Listen, fellas: Jack and Ashley were cool because they didn't conform to the role of typical female lead.  Now, I'm hopeful these two characters will retain their unique (albeit somewhat abrasive) personalities, but after Tali...  I really don't know.

Yeah, I know I'm complaining too much.  But honestly, one of the reasons I enjoy the Mass Effect series is that I can play it without feeling like the developers think I'm some sort of half-wit mouth-breather.  I mean, seriously Bioware, you don't have to objectify your characters when your fans do it for you.  Put what you do best--your characters--first, and save the energy wasted on over-abundant sex appeal for something more important.

And yeah, I know I probably shouldn't be worrying.  I'm sure ME3 will be an awesome game, but nonetheless, consider me mildly concerned.

EDIT: Fixed a typo.  Seriously, "Asley?"  Boy oh boy, I don't even...

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 22 avril 2011 - 04:10 .


#2
darknoon5

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I agree as a younger male gamer, I don't need cleavage everywhere to enjoy the game. I actually liked Samara because she had interesting dialouge and views, but I facepalmed in most of the cutscenes with her, specifically her introduction. How is that armour practical in any way?:huh: Thane's chest cleavage was also pretty off putting. The worst was the massive shot where Miranda's ass took over the whole screen.  Kotor and ME1 didn't sex up the characters, but ME2 felt the need to. One of the few things I dissaproved of in the sequel.

As you said, the article generally wasn't very valid in the character session, and had a misogynstic sounding author. However, the Jack change may not be bad. For paragon romancers, it would actually make sense. I see it as character development.

That said, if Jack becomes Kasumi mark 2, I will be upset.

Modifié par darknoon5, 22 avril 2011 - 03:48 .


#3
LPPrince

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Jack being softened and matured makes me believe she might actually decide to wear some clothing this time. NORMAL CLOTHING.

So I'm okay with that. But I wouldn't make assumptions about how the developers see us.

Yeah, I don't want blatant ass shots and sexualization. Yeah, I want it to be more like ME1 which really didn't have any of that stuff.

But I'm not going to assume that the devs feel a certain way. That doesn't really get anyone anywhere.

#4
Fiery Phoenix

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This *guy* is in full agreement with AC on this one.

#5
AdmiralCheez

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LPPrince wrote...

Jack being softened and matured makes me believe she might actually decide to wear some clothing this time. NORMAL CLOTHING.

That would be fine, but if she goes all Tali on me I'm killing her ass. I'm less concerned with what she's wearing and more concerned with what they'll do to her character.  A little more social/less ragekill would be understandable since she's foud a place where she can fit in aboard the Normandy, but I'm still expecting something short-tempered and belligerent that curses like a sailor.

#6
LPPrince

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Jack being softened and matured makes me believe she might actually decide to wear some clothing this time. NORMAL CLOTHING.

That would be fine, but if she goes all Tali on me I'm killing her ass. I'm less concerned with what she's wearing and more concerned with what they'll do to her character.  A little more social/less ragekill would be understandable since she's foud a place where she can fit in aboard the Normandy, but I'm still expecting something short-tempered and belligerent that curses like a sailor.


Everything you said but please, less cursing.

#7
BlackEssence

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Being a female, I was kind of glad that for ONCE, as wrong as it may be (puh-lease!), my men have actual BODIES. That was personal eye candy for me. As for the females, I was MAJORLY annoyed with Miranda. Don't even get me started because if I did, I would break her down like a fraction....but, I digress...

But, beyond that, I agree with everything you, the original poster, said and I am GLAD, PRAISE GOD, that a young man can finally speak some sense on this objectifying topic. Especially in a game that doesn't need it to bring up their fanbase.

And I just read some news from that very PSM saying that some characters are gone and some are coming back and had the nerve to put the word "unpopular" beside the likes of my beloved Thane, and cool women like Samara. I believe that this is a scare tactic. I truly do.

Modifié par BlackEssence, 22 avril 2011 - 04:13 .


#8
CulturalGeekGirl

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In games where I'm roleplaying, my character tends to develop a best gal pal. In ME1 it was Ash. In ME2 I didn't feel comfortable with any of the female LI characters or Samara - their personalities outside of their LI arcs were limited, and the LIs didn't show me sides I particularly liked, necessarily. So I ended up palling around with Kasumi instead. She might have a skin-tight jumpsuit, but she also has a cheerful but businesslike demeanor, something I really respect.

Long story short, Dudes have the perfect bro. Give us a decent, well-rounded gal pal again.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 22 avril 2011 - 03:59 .


#9
AdmiralCheez

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LPPrince wrote...

Everything you said but please, less cursing.

Okay, confession time:

I like the cursing because I talk like that in real life.  I'm not proud of it, but I found a kindred spirit in Jack because her mouth was worse than mine.

But I suppose 75% less f-bombs would be acceptible.  Hell, maybe I should go play Bulletstorm and get my vulgar habits out of my system...

EDIT: BlackEssence and CulturalGeekGirl speak wisdom.  Less fussing about who is and isn't popular and more brosephines.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 22 avril 2011 - 04:01 .


#10
LPPrince

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Well, Thane and Samara leaving really wouldn't have much to do with their popularity.

Samara SAID she would leave and Thane's got what, like half a year left to live by ME3?

#11
LPPrince

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Everything you said but please, less cursing.

Okay, confession time:

I like the cursing because I talk like that in real life.  I'm not proud of it, but I found a kindred spirit in Jack because her mouth was worse than mine.

But I suppose 75% less f-bombs would be acceptible.  Hell, maybe I should go play Bulletstorm and get my vulgar habits out of my system...


Hey, I curse too. But a wonderful friend of mine made me think I do it too much(and her definition of too much is very little) so I'm trying to cut down on using it myself.

But if she's going to "mature", Jack needs to find other ways to convey extreme emotions than dropping f-bombs on Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and every other city in the World.

#12
Eudaemonium

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As a male gamer in his mid twenties, I approve of everything the OP says. I just hope that in ME3 if they decide to keep the gratuitous outfits they also have a practicality option for in-the-field combat.

I fear and am simultaneously intrigued at Jack's character. Though more-so Ashley's, I confess.

#13
CulturalGeekGirl

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Everything you said but please, less cursing.

Okay, confession time:

I like the cursing because I talk like that in real life.  I'm not proud of it, but I found a kindred spirit in Jack because her mouth was worse than mine.

But I suppose 75% less f-bombs would be acceptible.  Hell, maybe I should go play Bulletstorm and get my vulgar habits out of my system...


I... This comment made me realize I don't even see curses anymore, 90% of the time. I have several times on this board had to prevent using m************ as an emphatic word for "dude," (for that I blame Penny-Arcade). I've been trying to swear less recently, (which has resulted in me having to teach all my spellcheck programs the word gorram), but I didn't even notice your post had swears in it.

So yeah. What they say about desensitization is true.

That said, I blame my work. I once had a boss who made me look up certain terms on urban dictionary, because he "wasn't confident I would be able to do my job without knowing them." I actually edited them out of this post because I was worried about the Bioware forums' content standards. So yeah... my life is weird.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 22 avril 2011 - 04:04 .


#14
AdmiralCheez

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LPPrince wrote...

Hey, I curse too. But a wonderful friend of mine made me think I do it too much(and her definition of too much is very little) so I'm trying to cut down on using it myself.

So am I, but still, I feel less awful about it when someone shares my vices.  Kind of like how I identify with the fat kid or the nerd chick in every single movie I watch.

But if she's going to "mature", Jack needs to find other ways to convey extreme emotions than dropping f-bombs on Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and every other city in the World.

Oh, sure.  But I'd hate for it to go away entirely.  I'm not saying f-bombs are necessary, but if someone's going to colorfully and inappropriately assess the situation for you, it's Jack.

#15
Guitar-Hero

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The game industry definately needs to grow up, but i think we as gamers also have a responsebility to make them aware of things that are not okay, IE women who look like they just jumped out of sports illustrated and humped Lara Croft, so cudos to you sir.. Though you did come off a bit extreme but hey.. this is the internet

#16
wizardryforever

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Sorry, but where is this confirmed? All I've read is the GI article, and nothing like this is in there. Sure some people have overreacted to Ashley's look, but I think most people realize that a change in look /= change in character.

#17
LPPrince

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Eh, if Jack is going to mature, I'd like her to avoid that stuff. Maybe get close to saying it, and then realizing what she was about to say and scold herself for almost going back to bad times.

#18
AdmiralCheez

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wizardryforever wrote...

Sorry, but where is this confirmed? All I've read is the GI article, and nothing like this is in there. Sure some people have overreacted to Ashley's look, but I think most people realize that a change in look /= change in character.

PS3M article confirms that Jack will be "softened up a bit".  And yes, I am aware that none of this is evidence to suggest Mass Effect is "ruined forever."  Like I said, I'm just mildly concerned.  If I'm wrong, I can breathe a sigh of relief.  If I'm right, I can tell all of you I told you so.

#19
atheelogos

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LPPrince wrote...

Jack being softened and matured makes me believe she might actually decide to wear some clothing this time. NORMAL CLOTHING.

So I'm okay with that. But I wouldn't make assumptions about how the developers see us.

Yeah, I don't want blatant ass shots and sexualization. Yeah, I want it to be more like ME1 which really didn't have any of that stuff.

But I'm not going to assume that the devs feel a certain way. That doesn't really get anyone anywhere.

And hopefully they get rid of some of those tattoos too.:unsure:

#20
AntiChri5

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As a twenty year old male gamer, i have to post in support of the OP.

There is no shortage of Mass Effect porn out there, can't people just have a look at that?

#21
CroGamer002

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Image IPB

#22
LPPrince

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atheelogos wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Jack being softened and matured makes me believe she might actually decide to wear some clothing this time. NORMAL CLOTHING.

So I'm okay with that. But I wouldn't make assumptions about how the developers see us.

Yeah, I don't want blatant ass shots and sexualization. Yeah, I want it to be more like ME1 which really didn't have any of that stuff.

But I'm not going to assume that the devs feel a certain way. That doesn't really get anyone anywhere.

And hopefully they get rid of some of those tattoos too.:unsure:


Nah. Let her keep the tats. But obviously, wearing normal clothes would obscure most of them, which I think is a good way to show that Jack is changing.

She doesn't want to show off what she USED to be. Because she wants to change. And Shepard helped her do it, regardless of romancing her or not(cause I will NOT help her if it means I absolutely have to do the deed with her).

#23
AntiChri5

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LPPrince wrote...

Eh, if Jack is going to mature, I'd like her to avoid that stuff. Maybe get close to saying it, and then realizing what she was about to say and scold herself for almost going back to bad times.

I really don't see why people make such a big deal of swearing.

It would be unrealistic if the former convict covered in tattoos with anger issues did not swear.

Actually, i think there should be more swearing.

#24
atheelogos

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Steffen wrote...

The game industry definately needs to grow up, but i think we as gamers also have a responsebility to make them aware of things that are not okay, IE women who look like they just jumped out of sports illustrated and humped Lara Croftt

Someone give this man a gold medal!!!!

#25
CroGamer002

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Jack being softened and matured makes me believe she might actually decide to wear some clothing this time. NORMAL CLOTHING.

That would be fine, but if she goes all Tali on me I'm killing her ass. I'm less concerned with what she's wearing and more concerned with what they'll do to her character.  A little more social/less ragekill would be understandable since she's foud a place where she can fit in aboard the Normandy, but I'm still expecting something short-tempered and belligerent that curses like a sailor.


And I think Jack would want that.


God I love that Jack's line in Legion LM.

Modifié par Mesina2, 22 avril 2011 - 04:24 .