807 réponses à ce sujet

[JeffZero]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Jack and Ash cool? Well, Ash...sort of.

Tali reduced to a shrinking violet? I highly object. Tali in ME1 was the cute nerdy geek, no more than that. Well, that's alright, part to why she has many fans. In ME2 while we see those traits in the romance, we see a change in her voice, tone and attitude. She shouts, she gives orders, she cries, she feels scared, she curses! In my opinion she grew a lot in ME2.

It's also about damn time Jack matured. If not I'd try to make my Shep punch her in the face to stop whining and raging.

I have to agree with the Tali parts here, though. I almost forgot to voice my disagreement concerning the character. I thought she was rather uninspired in ME1 compared with what she was given in ME2.

[Mister Ford]

wizardryforever wrote...

Bluko wrote...

]Look if squadmates want to run around in their undergarments on the ship so be it (maybe that's when everyone does laundry?). But when they are out and about on actual missions they should have some legitimate form of proctection. And I'm sorry, but it's never implied shields and mere clothes protect characters from everything. They need to wear armor obviously for when their shields fail.

I know it's a game, and some liberties must be taken to make the game fun. I don't expect every character to wear a helmet, etc. But ultimately in order to be fun it needs to have some basis on reality, others it would be totally incomprehensible to most.

I actually do agree that more realism in this regard would be nice.  Not necessary or required, but nice.  I guess my feelings on the matter just aren't as strong as yours.

I agree but I'd say it's more options I'd like, not necessarily more realism.  Options are always good, but I'd much rather have it go toward them looking cool rather than going toward ultimate total protection..  I have Miranda's alternate appearance armor, and I switch back and forth between having her wear that and having her wear her normal outfit.  I like them both, except for the yellow eye piece with the AA, can't stand that.  I get that it absolutely does not make sense to have people fighting so unprotected -- in real life.  But like you said, it just didn't bother me.  I was too busy having fun playing the game to worry about it.

But if they're going to do it in ME3, I want them all to have their own unique armor.  Please god no interchangeable, one-size-fits-all, ugly *** armor from ME1.

Modifié par Mister Ford, 23 avril 2011 - 05:16 .

[ADLegend21]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

This *guy* is in full agreement with AC on this one.

so does this guy.

[gosimmons]

In reply to OP
I'm glad people are willing to point this out. I miss the sensible and/or formal outfits that ME1 had. I find it ironic that the first game ended on a tasteful sex scene while Me2 fanserviced things up, and the most risqué scenes in the game are dryhumping, and prize~ jokes. (not to undermine all the Me2 romances) And basically, I feel bad that squaddies are dumping common sense for the rule of cool.

Though Tali's character didn't really bother me. I found her more likeable in the second game, though some say she changed too much, but honestly I didn't think there was too much to change from ME1. Not to say she can't keep maturing as a character, bring back some more independence as you say.

Modifié par gosimmons, 23 avril 2011 - 05:50 .

[MizzNaaa]

I completely agree with the OP, because hey, good characters don't need to have huge boobs and mighty big butts to appeal to gamers. That's why I loved ME1 so much, having female soldiers acting like soldiers, with the hair bun and the athletic body that wasn't over sexualized or anything. Women and men with brains not 'oh so cool' as in ME2. Don't get me wrong, I like the characters in ME2, but they lacked the tastefulness of ME1.

I don't approve necessarily with the new change in Ash's looks, I'm hoping it's just for marketing and that she'd go back to her bun, or a new bun or whatever in game, because it makes sense. And the same goes for the rest of the male and female characters, I really do hope BW would go back to the ME1 style of characters where what's inside the brain of said characters was much more  important than how cool they looked or how sexy they were.

Gah, I remember, I could almost feel the realism of ME1's characters. I could walk down the street and meet an Ash, or a Kaidan, or an Anderson...or Udina. 

But yeah...they had to fanservice everything :/

So yeah, please BioWare don't mess this up!

Modifié par MizzNaaa, 23 avril 2011 - 05:50 .

[wizardryforever]

MizzNaaa wrote...

I completely agree with the OP, because hey, good characters don't need to have huge boobs and mighty big butts to appeal to gamers. That's why I loved ME1 so much, having female soldiers acting like soldiers, with the hair bun and the athletic body that wasn't over sexualized or anything. Women and men with brains not 'oh so cool' as in ME2. Don't get me wrong, I like the characters in ME2, but they lacked the tastefulness of ME1.

I don't approve necessarily with the new change in Ash's looks, I'm hoping it's just for marketing and that she'd go back to her bun, or a new bun or whatever in game, because it makes sense. And the same goes for the rest of the male and female characters, I really do hope BW would go back to the ME1 style of characters where what's inside the brain of said characters was much more  important than how cool they looked or how sexy they were.

Gah, I remember, I could almost feel the realism of ME1's characters. I could walk down the street and meet an Ash, or a Kaidan, or an Anderson...or Udina. 

But yeah...they had to fanservice everything :/

So yeah, please BioWare don't mess this up!

Do you honestly not see the contradiction here?  You say that people should not be judged on their appearance (ie, ugly/bland looking people can be great characters), and then you turn right around and claim that the characters in ME2 were somehow less, simply because of their appearance.  You seem to be saying that there is such a thing as "too hot," and that any such character is fanservice and can't be taken seriously.  Maybe I'm misinterpeting what you said, but that is what it seems like.

[Bostur]

I also find the trend of sexualizing everything to be a little bit boring.

But in this case its not so bad for me.

If Jack actually matures a bit and starts wearing clothes and become less extreme, that seems like a natural development.

Since Miranda is depicted as the genetically perfect human being, and generally being quite narcissistic, I thought it was funny her butt got so much screen time. It seemed like an ironic humouristic comment from the designers.

Besides Miranda and Jack, the only other obvious female sex object in ME2 was Samara. I think big boobs kind of makes sense for the maternal idea of a matriarch.

[gosimmons]

wizardryforever wrote...

Do you honestly not see the contradiction here?  You say that people should not be judged on their appearance (ie, ugly/bland looking people can be great characters), and then you turn right around and claim that the characters in ME2 were somehow less, simply because of their appearance.  You seem to be saying that there is such a thing as "too hot," and that any such character is fanservice and can't be taken seriously.  Maybe I'm misinterpeting what you said, but that is what it seems like.

Naturally looking good is one thing, but why the fanservice outfits? They were able to make characters like Ashley and Liara attractive without throwing them into battle wearing high heels and spandex. And I'm sorry, but I think the camera should be focused on the face during conversation.

Bostur wrote...
Besides Miranda and Jack, the only other obvious female sex object in ME2 was Samara. I think big boobs kind of makes sense for the maternal idea of a matriarch.

Does that mean she can't use a zipper before going into a hazardous environment? 

Modifié par gosimmons, 23 avril 2011 - 06:16 .

[Dexi]

What's wrong with you people?
I love Ashley's new look, and I seriously hope Jack will get a sexier suit... and some hair, that only to complement the already-there beauty of her face.
And Miranda and Tali were the best designed characters in ME2, visual-wise. I always take them with me on missions. And Samara, occasionally. I hope we get more females like this in ME3.










No... sorry... I just can't troll on this I completely agree with AdmiralCheez. I'm a young lad myself and I always have hated the fact that in almost all entertainment industries, they all try to attract audience by putting some strippers on the screen. That's why I particularly hate the current mainstream music industry.
I kinda know that BW didn't really put up a lot of thought in this whole "lets make our females a bit sexier" thing on whether or not they'll polarize the fans, bringing new ones but annoying the ones that appreciated other things rather than boobs in the ME1 femals...
But what's done it's done, the game is like already completed.

Modifié par Dexi, 23 avril 2011 - 06:23 .

[Nab20]

gosimmons wrote...
They were able to make characters like Ashley attractive 

Not really. 

[Urdnot Orrad]

Nab20 wrote...

gosimmons wrote...
They were able to make characters like Ashley attractive 

Not really. 

Uhh... yeah. I found most of the women in ME attractive anyway.

[MGIII]

Don't really care, as long as they're well written.

[Krimson_Wolf]

*sniff* *sniff* I'm I mistaken or do I smell the delicious smell of rage!

[GodWood]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

... but I need to get this out of my system.

The one thing that annoys me most is that game developers often assume the only people that play their games are young, horny males who have never had a girlfriend and probably will never get one.  Female characters, if present at all, are frequently given over-exaggerated "hot" bodies jammed into revealing and too-tight outfits.

Bioware is no exception, but to their credit they often made a joke out of it to mock their cheap pandering to a seventeen-year-old's erection and backed off on the whole boobies thing when it wasn't appropriate.  For example, take ME1: it had an entire race of sexy babes, but Bioware was able to get away with this because they poked fun at the trope and also gave the asari an interesting culture and deep characters.  There was only one case of extreme cleavage (Matriarch Boobnezia Benezia), and none of the female leads were overtly sexualized (FemShep and Ashley especially were pretty plain in their body-types and never wore anything incredibly revealing apart from certain types of armor that had a tendency to ride up the crack).  So I let them get away with it.

And then came ME2.  Suddenly, boobs, boobs everywhere (plus a few manly bits this go-round: check out Jacob and Thane.  Specifically, check out Jacob's butt, which really is as bad as Miranda's save for it got less screen time).  Now, I didn't complain too much because for the most part it fit the characters and again they mocked themselves for doing it (Miranda's buttshots and her encounter with a certain Eclipse commando).  It only really got stupid when people started running around with naught but a breather mask, and at the very least all the characters were interesting enough as people that I was able to look past the cleavage.  However, Tali's reduction into a "shrinking violet" type of character set off alarm bells in my head, and the presentation of all female characters in Genesis (the PS3 comic) would have made me punch Casey Hudson in the teeth had I not been able to transfer my blame to the Dark Horse team, who tend to kind of suck anyway.  At least they didn't try to sex up FemShep apart from some really agressive flirting which I usually avoided or skipped over anyway.  So again, Bioware got a pass.  A very shaky pass, but at least it wasn't Soul Calibur or Dead or Alive.

But now, looking at the new information trickling in about ME3, I am beginning to suspect things are going to get worse (perhaps better for those of you who play alone and with one hand).  I know we know next to nothing about ME3, but Ashley's new look (sans bun, bigger ******, and a tight body suit) plus their comment about Jack being softened and matured raised a few red flags.  The PS3M article, which I shouldn't pay attention to because it was written by a bunch of very randy morons who didn't bother to do their homework, only made matters worse by reminding everyone how hot and sexy all the female characters are.

Listen, fellas: Jack and Ashley were cool because they didn't conform to the role of typical female lead.  Now, I'm hopeful these two characters will retain their unique (albeit somewhat abrasive) personalities, but after Tali...  I really don't know.

Yeah, I know I'm complaining too much.  But honestly, one of the reasons I enjoy the Mass Effect series is that I can play it without feeling like the developers think I'm some sort of half-wit mouth-breather.  I mean, seriously Bioware, you don't have to objectify your characters when your fans do it for you.  Put what you do best--your characters--first, and save the energy wasted on over-abundant sex appeal for something more important.

And yeah, I know I probably shouldn't be worrying.  I'm sure ME3 will be an awesome game, but nonetheless, consider me mildly concerned.

EDIT: Fixed a typo.  Seriously, "Asley?"  Boy oh boy, I don't even...

Less than three Cheez
I agree on all points

[Bluko]

wizardryforever wrote...

Well technically it is space opera.  Space opera that largely adheres to logic and science, true, but still space opera.  As such, the writers and designers can and will take liberties with the realism.  The sooner one realizes this, the happier one will be with one's gaming experience.

Well yes it is rather "soap opera" like and fits into the typical epic battle against things from out space. Still makes it science fiction, just science fiction with emphasis on drama. Most Sci-Fis that I know do take great liberties with realism, and that's okay as long as the mumbo jumbo says why gravity don't work in this part of the universe.

Again yes know it's a game and is far from realistic. I just don't want Looney Toons antics.

wizardryforever wrote...

No I really wouldn't care, though perhaps I should replace the emphasis that was lost on the personal appearance (clothing and such) of characters.  Realism is great in this regard, but it does not alter my perception of the game or the characters if the realism is lacking.  And if appearance really was so paramount, then games that have poor graphics but a stellar story would fail.  And yet, that isn't the case most of the time.  Graphics help yes, but they aren't as big of a deal as you say.

Mmm I don't really want to derail this thread, but if this game were using the same iteration of the engine as used for something like KOTOR, this game simply would not sell today. Graphics are important in Shooters/RPGs like Mass Effect and it's important they stay current with everything else. It's a big part of the reason games like Halo and CoD top sales charts. They both look and play good. Maybe in casual games graphics are less important (The Wii, etc.) but even there the design/look makes a for a big factor in the appeal of those games.

Don't get me wrong I play plenty of dated games, but as cool as 2D sprites are to me still, that stuff is simply too "weak" for younger crowds to buy en mass anymore. Everything got to be 3D, fancy lighting and shading, good textures, models, etc.
 

wizardryforever wrote...

I actually do agree that more realism in this regard would be nice.  Not necessary or required, but nice.  I guess my feelings on the matter just aren't as strong as yours.

Alright. I'd admit it's a pretty hot button issue to me (though I know I'm not alone) so I get rather belligerent about it. It was my number one gripe with ME2 and something I just had a hard time swallowing coming off of ME1. It didn't "ruin" the game for me per say, but it certainly raised my eyebrow a few times.

Modifié par Bluko, 23 avril 2011 - 08:10 .

[Kronner]

Personally, I do not give a flying frack about how bodies and/or outfits (female, male, alien..whatever) in the game look like.

Modifié par Kronner, 23 avril 2011 - 08:09 .

[CARL_DF90]

Legbiter wrote...

CARL_DF90 wrote...

Hey OP! I completely understand and agree with pretty much EVERYTHING you have said and I'm a guy! If even a guy can get sick of the abundance and the overly gratuitous amount of female anatomy in games and other media, it needs to be taken as an example of how sad things are nowadays.

You're too late.

She's not going to put out just because your beta ass agrees with her.

Ugh. Pitiful, and sad. You just made my point. Jeez.

[Labrev]

I've been wanting to say this, but Ashley always had nice ******. Nobody noticed because she didn't wh*re around in skin-tight underwear like Miranda. Go back and look at it again in ME1.

I agree though, Ashley and Jack are both cool because you don't see characters like those otherwise seen in video-game chicks. I'm OK with Jack "maturing" as long as she's still funny, bald, tattoo'd, violent, and otherwise swaggalicious.

[BlackwindTheCommander]

I fully agree with the OP's point. Don't get me wrong I want the ladies looking sexy for thier personnal alone time with Shep, but god damn give me a break.

No wonder Jack drops like a sack of potatoes in combat! A strap bra and some pants don't stop bullets all to well. (more then aware thier clothing has no impact on gameplay) You can be sure that I shelled out the $2 ti give her some clothes.

Miranda, well Miranda's fine in my book because her clothing as such fit her back story sort of. Its tight and revealing, but thats just because she knows how to use what she has. To quote Mel Brooks' movie/musical The Producers, "When you got it flaunt it!" She keeps it tight so theres no extra material to get in the way of her doing her job. Is she a little "well endowed"? Yes, she does come off as fan service in my eyes.

Liara definatley is the best char design right now. It still got some sexiness to it, but its also practical. Its armored and fully covered, and still retains some of her style. More like that please.

As for Ashley, I'll reserve judgement until later. We've only seen a tiny picture of her in the GI. Unless theres a full sized full body shot somewhere I won't demonize her just yet.

[killingsheep24]

Sorry I don't want fat chicks in my game or girl's with man jaws.
Space latex babes ftw.

Modifié par killingsheep24, 23 avril 2011 - 10:42 .

[bbbbbb]

Modifié par bbbbbb, 24 avril 2011 - 02:48 .

[Neophyte Padawan]

Throwing in my support for the OP on this as well (as a fellow female gamer, for whatever it's worth).

While I recognise that Bioware are far from the worst offenders in the industry for this, I do find it sad how far they've gone in this direction in ME2 compared to ME1. While the Mass Effect series has hardly ever been about realism, I do find it pretty immersion breaking to send my Shepard out into combat fully geared up, only to be accompanied by Miranda in her high heels and Jack in her... well... nothing much at all really!

[ScepticMatt]

I hope Bioware finally recognizes this - It has been brought up many times already