807 réponses à ce sujet

[HealthyGiraffe]

ExtremeOne wrote...

sex appeal sells simple as that

Yes, but Bioware didn't have to make illogical immersion breaking decisions to sell it. They could have shown off Miranda's ass jsut as well on the normandy in her casual gear. She should have fought in armor. 

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Silmane wrote...

Paula Deen wrote...

I don't care if you're the world's biggest badass, wearing a leather, skin-tight suit that shows plenty of cleavage and forgoing a helmet is NOT practical for combat. Period.

And don't even get me started about the heels. That's not going to help you AT ALL in a zero-g environment.

I'm sorry, but male or female, leather won't stop bullets. And even then, when a good portion of your center of mass isn't even covered by the leather...no excuse.

And wearing a stripperific outfit isn't a good way to get taken seriously, regardless of gender.

i'm glad you've predicted the future(a fictional future universe, too).

TIM spent billions of credits to bring someone back to life. Yet, you question the possibility of someone wearing, what you call leather, into battle or into hazardous areas. You either want realism or you don't. Please decide.

Shepard fell out of a ship, through space, through an atmosphere and crashed onto a planet with no safety net, was brought back to life, was able to customize his/her entire face, but outfits that you don't even know what they are made out of is completely out of the question and inexcusable? 

Yeah, that through the atmosphere part... there wouldn't even be ash left IRL

[Bomb In My Pants]

He didn't go through the atmosphere, but all the previous stuff is still enough.

[gosimmons]

InvincibleHero wrote...

If anyone thinks ME is oversexualized they need to watch 30 minutes of MTV or network shows to get perspective. I've seen sexier product commercials that anything in ME2. i wasn't thinking anything but listening and watching what is happening and you know shooting the enemies that were trying to kill me. Actually playing the game what a concept.

I'm having trouble getting your point.
Mass Effect is meant to be taken as an immersive and serious story, it doesn't really work trying to compare it to MTV.
It's like saying you could describe a knife fight as nonviolent by comparing it to a warzone.

[Silmane]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

He didn't go through the atmosphere, but all the previous stuff is still enough.

Uh..wat

[Jebel Krong]

Silmane wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

He didn't go through the atmosphere, but all the previous stuff is still enough.

Uh..wat

it's not stated that shep ever got as far as atmospheric re-entry.

[lolwut666]

I think that kind of stuff ain't that important.

BioWare should only pay attention to that once they have dealt with all the major issues and finished everything else.

It's easy to deal with catsuits in space: just turn on your suspension of disbelief.

I'm not saying this should be left alone, but a lot of people are blowing this out of proportion.

[Brendanoz]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Silmane wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

He didn't go through the atmosphere, but all the previous stuff is still enough.

Uh..wat

it's not stated that shep ever got as far as atmospheric re-entry.

"and it is apparent that the Commander suffocated to death, coupled with
the possibility of the hardsuit burning up on reentry to the planet
below."
-http://masseffect.wi...mmander_Shepard

Modifié par Brendanoz, 27 avril 2011 - 10:12 .

[Silmane]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Silmane wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

He didn't go through the atmosphere, but all the previous stuff is still enough.

Uh..wat

it's not stated that shep ever got as far as atmospheric re-entry.

You know what, you're right. That scene is so full of holes that it doesn't really matter. 

Doesn't change my point, though. 

[Geth_Prime]

Any of you tried looking at this from a female gamer's point of view? Sure, us guys might enjoy the sight of women wearing leather catsuits during combat, but to a straight woman it would probably just look stupid. And saying "suspend your disbelief" doesn't work. For instance, if a plot has holes in it, yes, you can overlook them, but the plot would still be better if they weren't there.
I'm not saying that Mass Effect needs to have all the women wearing armor in combat, but to many people, and not just women, it looks silly. Some of you might not mind what others are calling oversexualisation, but to suit all players BioWare should probably cut down on the cleavage with ME3.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

This comic pretty much sums up my feelings on sexism in games.

[MotoSkunkX]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

... but I need to get this out of my system.

The one thing that annoys me most is that game developers often assume the only people that play their games are young, horny males who have never had a girlfriend and probably will never get one.  Female characters, if present at all, are frequently given over-exaggerated "hot" bodies jammed into revealing and too-tight outfits.

Bioware is no exception, but to their credit they often made a joke out of it to mock their cheap pandering to a seventeen-year-old's erection and backed off on the whole boobies thing when it wasn't appropriate.  For example, take ME1: it had an entire race of sexy babes, but Bioware was able to get away with this because they poked fun at the trope and also gave the asari an interesting culture and deep characters.  There was only one case of extreme cleavage (Matriarch Boobnezia Benezia), and none of the female leads were overtly sexualized (FemShep and Ashley especially were pretty plain in their body-types and never wore anything incredibly revealing apart from certain types of armor that had a tendency to ride up the crack).  So I let them get away with it.

And then came ME2.  Suddenly, boobs, boobs everywhere (plus a few manly bits this go-round: check out Jacob and Thane.

It's weird how what annoys you the most is one of my favorite bits. 

Also game developers do not assume the demographics of their fan base, they know it.  Or are you going to sit there and try to tell me that the majority of gamers are, in fact, not young males. (I guess I don't fall completely into that demographic, while the first two fit perfectly I do have a girlfriend - but she is neither blue nor does she have head tentacles, which is why I bang the asari 9 times out of 10).

If I wanted to play a game composed of normal male and female human leads I'd play Captain Bland's monotonous adventure.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I'm gonna pull some figures from the PDF linked in Nyoka's post.

The average game player is 34. 40% of players are female, 60% are male.

So the idea of the teenaged male gamer as the main audience for video games is... well... incorrect.

We're saying that having a Miranda in there to appeal to the 20% of gamers who are males 17 and younger is fine. But they don't want to alienate the 33% of gamers who are women 18 and older. (I wish they'd provided better demographic breakdowns, but that's the data we have to work with.)

Basically, having one or two female characters who are eye candy, and one or two male characters who are also eye candy is fine. Making every single female character wear a catsuit and every single male character an androgynous pretty-boy would be dumb.

So let Miranda be Miranda. But don't make Ashley Miranda too.

[Vyse_Fina]

Nyoka wrote...

This may be useful. 2010. Some facts from the Entertainment Software Association

Those statistics aren't all that useful actually. What is the criteria for someone to be counted in these statistics? Do these people play 1h a day or 1h a month? Do they play games like Mass Effect or only games like Peggle, Farmville and Bejeweled? Who buys how many games?

Even if there are less 17 year old male gamers, they probably spend more money on games than most 3x year old female gamers? Which of these people play which game for how long? Do they finish the game? (even the very best games like Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, God of War, etc are finished by about 50% of the people who buy them)

That's why I dislike statistics like these. They imply things, without giving you all the data that is neccessary most of the time.

Modifié par Vyse_Fina, 27 avril 2011 - 06:31 .

[Legbiter]

MotoSkunkX wrote...

If I wanted to play a game composed of normal male and female human leads I'd play Captain Bland's monotonous adventure.

Don't forget buy the Henpecked DLC. Really complements the game.

Modifié par Legbiter, 27 avril 2011 - 06:34 .

[Bomb In My Pants]

Ashley is not that bad, compared to Miranda. The thing from the GI magazine is basically as revealing, maybe even less so, than her ship wear in ME1. Besides, as I said somewhere else, it only shows her above the waist. Miranda's biggest flaw, in my opinion, was below the waist. I think Ash's clothes will be sort of like Liara's (in theme at least). At first you think that it's just going to be another Miranda skin-suit, but when you look closer, it's actually not that bad.

[AdmiralCheez]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I'm gonna pull some figures from the PDF linked in Nyoka's post.

The average game player is 34. 40% of players are female, 60% are male.

So the idea of the teenaged male gamer as the main audience for video games is... well... incorrect.

We're saying that having a Miranda in there to appeal to the 20% of gamers who are males 17 and younger is fine. But they don't want to alienate the 33% of gamers who are women 18 and older. (I wish they'd provided better demographic breakdowns, but that's the data we have to work with.)

Basically, having one or two female characters who are eye candy, and one or two male characters who are also eye candy is fine. Making every single female character wear a catsuit and every single male character an androgynous pretty-boy would be dumb.

So let Miranda be Miranda. But don't make Ashley Miranda too.

Precisely.

I should just pay you to make my points for me.  I mean, hell, you do it anyway.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 28 avril 2011 - 12:57 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

MotoSkunkX wrote...

If I wanted to play a game composed of normal male and female human leads I'd play Captain Bland's monotonous adventure.

Or you could play Halo. Or COD. Or a bunch of other games that have managed to make it
work.

I'm really actually taken aback by some of the attitudes on this forum regarding character sexualization; that "normal attractive" = "bland", and "bombshell attractive" = "OMG THIS GAME IS SO COOL, IT WOULD BE SOOOO BORING IF I DIDN'T HAVE THESE SUPERMODELS ALL CROWDED TOGETHER ON MAI SHIP!!!".

Captain Bland's Monotonous Adventure? *smirk*
Whatever you say, dude.

Modifié par Mr. MannlyMan, 28 avril 2011 - 01:14 .

[MajesticJazz]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

... but I need to get this out of my system.

The one thing that annoys me most is that game developers often assume the only people that play their games are young, horny males who have never had a girlfriend and probably will never get one.  Female characters, if present at all, are frequently given over-exaggerated "hot" bodies jammed into revealing and too-tight outfits.

Bioware is no exception, but to their credit they often made a joke out of it to mock their cheap pandering to a seventeen-year-old's erection and backed off on the whole boobies thing when it wasn't appropriate.  For example, take ME1: it had an entire race of sexy babes, but Bioware was able to get away with this because they poked fun at the trope and also gave the asari an interesting culture and deep characters.  There was only one case of extreme cleavage (Matriarch Boobnezia Benezia), and none of the female leads were overtly sexualized (FemShep and Ashley especially were pretty plain in their body-types and never wore anything incredibly revealing apart from certain types of armor that had a tendency to ride up the crack).  So I let them get away with it.

And then came ME2.  Suddenly, boobs, boobs everywhere (plus a few manly bits this go-round: check out Jacob and Thane.  Specifically, check out Jacob's butt, which really is as bad as Miranda's save for it got less screen time).  Now, I didn't complain too much because for the most part it fit the characters and again they mocked themselves for doing it (Miranda's buttshots and her encounter with a certain Eclipse commando).  It only really got stupid when people started running around with naught but a breather mask, and at the very least all the characters were interesting enough as people that I was able to look past the cleavage.  However, Tali's reduction into a "shrinking violet" type of character set off alarm bells in my head, and the presentation of all female characters in Genesis (the PS3 comic) would have made me punch Casey Hudson in the teeth had I not been able to transfer my blame to the Dark Horse team, who tend to kind of suck anyway.  At least they didn't try to sex up FemShep apart from some really agressive flirting which I usually avoided or skipped over anyway.  So again, Bioware got a pass.  A very shaky pass, but at least it wasn't Soul Calibur or Dead or Alive.

But now, looking at the new information trickling in about ME3, I am beginning to suspect things are going to get worse (perhaps better for those of you who play alone and with one hand).  I know we know next to nothing about ME3, but Ashley's new look (sans bun, bigger ******, and a tight body suit) plus their comment about Jack being softened and matured raised a few red flags.  The PS3M article, which I shouldn't pay attention to because it was written by a bunch of very randy morons who didn't bother to do their homework, only made matters worse by reminding everyone how hot and sexy all the female characters are.

Listen, fellas: Jack and Ashley were cool because they didn't conform to the role of typical female lead.  Now, I'm hopeful these two characters will retain their unique (albeit somewhat abrasive) personalities, but after Tali...  I really don't know.

Yeah, I know I'm complaining too much.  But honestly, one of the reasons I enjoy the Mass Effect series is that I can play it without feeling like the developers think I'm some sort of half-wit mouth-breather.  I mean, seriously Bioware, you don't have to objectify your characters when your fans do it for you.  Put what you do best--your characters--first, and save the energy wasted on over-abundant sex appeal for something more important.

And yeah, I know I probably shouldn't be worrying.  I'm sure ME3 will be an awesome game, but nonetheless, consider me mildly concerned.

EDIT: Fixed a typo.  Seriously, "Asley?"  Boy oh boy, I don't even...

http://t3.gstatic.co...ggbQmB05EY0HTtg

Modifié par MajesticJazz, 28 avril 2011 - 03:12 .

[Manic Sheep]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I'm gonna pull some figures from the PDF linked in Nyoka's post.

The average game player is 34. 40% of players are female, 60% are male.

So the idea of the teenaged male gamer as the main audience for video games is... well... incorrect.

We're saying that having a Miranda in there to appeal to the 20% of gamers who are males 17 and younger is fine. But they don't want to alienate the 33% of gamers who are women 18 and older. (I wish they'd provided better demographic breakdowns, but that's the data we have to work with.)

Basically, having one or two female characters who are eye candy, and one or two male characters who are also eye candy is fine. Making every single female character wear a catsuit and every single male character an androgynous pretty-boy would be dumb.

So let Miranda be Miranda. But don't make Ashley Miranda too.

Thank you!

[SlottsMachine]

Although I agree with Vyse_Fina about the usefulness of the stats, regardless everyone can agree with this........ 

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Basically, having one or two female characters who are eye candy, and one or two male characters who are also eye candy is fine. Making every single female character wear a catsuit and every single male character an androgynous pretty-boy would be dumb.

So let Miranda be Miranda. But don't make Ashley Miranda too.

[Crimson_D-bag]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I'm gonna pull some figures from the PDF linked in Nyoka's post.

The average game player is 34. 40% of players are female, 60% are male.

So the idea of the teenaged male gamer as the main audience for video games is... well... incorrect.

We're saying that having a Miranda in there to appeal to the 20% of gamers who are males 17 and younger is fine. But they don't want to alienate the 33% of gamers who are women 18 and older. (I wish they'd provided better demographic breakdowns, but that's the data we have to work with.)

Basically, having one or two female characters who are eye candy, and one or two male characters who are also eye candy is fine. Making every single female character wear a catsuit and every single male character an androgynous pretty-boy would be dumb.

So let Miranda be Miranda. But don't make Ashley Miranda too.

Precisely.

I should just pay you to make my points for me.  I mean, hell, you do it anyway.

these stats are pure bs, i know several female gamers and none of them play mass effect. A few play cod (poorly, for like an hour a month) but its games like barbies dream house and other lame non complicated games that girls prefer. i'm willing to bet that for serious 3-5 days a week, new game buying, merchandize quaffing gamers the stats r more like 90% male 10% female. besides girls complain about everything, am i right fellas. wahhh my vaginas bleeding, pshh... get over it.

[Nashiktal]

Crimson_D-bag wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I'm gonna pull some figures from the PDF linked in Nyoka's post.

The average game player is 34. 40% of players are female, 60% are male.

So the idea of the teenaged male gamer as the main audience for video games is... well... incorrect.

We're saying that having a Miranda in there to appeal to the 20% of gamers who are males 17 and younger is fine. But they don't want to alienate the 33% of gamers who are women 18 and older. (I wish they'd provided better demographic breakdowns, but that's the data we have to work with.)

Basically, having one or two female characters who are eye candy, and one or two male characters who are also eye candy is fine. Making every single female character wear a catsuit and every single male character an androgynous pretty-boy would be dumb.

So let Miranda be Miranda. But don't make Ashley Miranda too.

Precisely.

I should just pay you to make my points for me.  I mean, hell, you do it anyway.

these stats are pure bs, i know several female gamers and none of them play mass effect. A few play cod (poorly, for like an hour a month) but its games like barbies dream house and other lame non complicated games that girls prefer. i'm willing to bet that for serious 3-5 days a week, new game buying, merchandize quaffing gamers the stats r more like 90% male 10% female. besides girls complain about everything, am i right fellas. wahhh my vaginas bleeding, pshh... get over it.

You are basing this off of your experiences. Even if you knew 100 female gamers, all who played barbie house, that wouldn't even account for a full 1 percent of girl gamers.

Aside from the fact my experiences are different from yours, (most girl gamers round where I live play ME, and other Triple A titles, if only my girlfriend was one.) you really should trust that actual census data gathered for the fact.

[RAF1940]

I didn't even understand why the "dat ass" scene was in the game. That had to be on purpose.