111 réponses à ce sujet

[omgodzilla]

magelet wrote...

Well, sure it's not...IDEAL shall we say, but there's still the fact that it's going, "better than expected." And that's just after what, like two years?
There's still the possibility that he could unite them more effectively, especially when Uvenk is gone. And having a unifying cause like eminent destruction by giant robot dudes is always good. Basically, some krogan would still follow him. Just maybe not all of them.

I think that a bigger issue would be if Wrex died on Virmire. Then you'd be dealing with Wreav and he's just no good.

Which is exactly what I am suggesting here. There has to be a negative consquence to saving the Rachni. If you saved the Rachni, you get Clan Urdnot, a few other Krogan and the Rachni on your side. If you killed the Rachni then you get all of the Krogan.

[magelet]

Ah yes. Well, now. That is somewhat difficult to say. Do the krogan really show any continued resentment about the rachni? Well, aside perhaps from Wrex's comments about the queen on Noveria, but that was a special incident.

No I think that the major issue for most krogan is that of the genophage. If you were to, say, tell the krogan that you helped destroy evidence that could cure the genophage (that is, on Mordin's LM or even maybe on Virmire), then I would think that that would be a much bigger deal than bringing back the rachni. Incidentally, I would imagine that you could help them cure the genophage if you did not destroy the data, and therefore win the support of them if they were, in fact, upset about the rachni.

[omgodzilla]

magelet wrote...

Ah yes. Well, now. That is somewhat difficult to say. Do the krogan really show any continued resentment about the rachni? Well, aside perhaps from Wrex's comments about the queen on Noveria, but that was a special incident.

No I think that the major issue for most krogan is that of the genophage. If you were to, say, tell the krogan that you helped destroy evidence that could cure the genophage (that is, on Mordin's LM or even maybe on Virmire), then I would think that that would be a much bigger deal than bringing back the rachni. Incidentally, I would imagine that you could help them cure the genophage if you did not destroy the data, and therefore win the support of them if they were, in fact, upset about the rachni.

But we have to keep in mind that there isn't actually any cure yet. Mordin even says "We are still years away from a cure" or something like that at the end of his loyalty mission.

[magelet]

Well, yes I did not say that there was a perfect CURE per se, but giving them data that could help in concocting one would certainly not hurt if you were had to try to win them over.

[omgodzilla]

magelet wrote...

Well, yes I did not say that there was a perfect CURE per se, but giving them data that could help in concocting one would certainly not hurt if you were had to try to win them over.

Yeah it can definitely help out. We can't really say if it would have more of an effect on getting Krogan's loyalty than saving/killing Rachni would though. I just assumed that the Rachni would play a bigger part because it seemed like a more significant desicion. It was a desicion which you had to make whereas, Mordin's loyatly mission could have been skipped.

[SalsaDMA]

omgodzilla wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

TridentWhisper wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

TridentWhisper wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Krogans are valued on the danger of the enemies they fight. You cannot find a more dangerous enemy in the galaxy than the incomming reaper invasion.

If they somehow decline to fight the reapers, their social lore alone will scream "retcon" more than anything else will say 'plothole'.

No, it would stay consistent with the lore. Krogan live for thousands of years, and they only need to go one or two generations back to remember the Rachni Wars. Would you suddenly agree to fight together with the same people that killed your family?

Not to mention last time the Krogan saved the galaxy they got rewarded with the Genophage. So it would be logical that they are reluctant to fight besides Rachni, Turians and Salarians. I'm not saying Wrex wouldn't agree to help, but there are a lot of Krogan besides Wrex.

You're not thinking like a krogan.

It's you who's not paying enough attention. If you listened to the Krogan dialogs through the games, especially on Tuchanka, you will understand that the Krogan aren't just a battle-hungry race who only cares about fighting strong enemies. Most of them hate how the other races have treated them and think that it was unjust.
This shows that Krogan can hold grudges that can last for millennia, ergo they will also probably refuse to ally themselves with the Rachni.

I'm curious what grudge you think they should hold against the Rachnii.

It might have something to do with how the Rachni took out a crap ton of Krogan all those years ago.

And?

They were fighting. That's what happens when people war with each other.

If anything, they should be happy that a 'good' enemy was alive again. Krogans respect strength, and the Rachnii was one of the few strong races they encountered that bashed with them in raw strength. Salarians, on the other hand, were pretty underhanded in the way the dealt with the krogans. If any animosity should be present, it should be with the salarians and not the rachnii.

Heck, battling alongside the rachnii against an even greater enemy should more sound like a dream come true than anything else to a common krogan.

Edit: Also recall Wrexs story about his friend the asari commando he was hired to kill. His 'morale' of that story was basicly: anyone able to survive that deserved to live. Rachnii went through alot more than his friend during their war with the krogans.

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 23 avril 2011 - 08:02 .

[GodWood]

I would be extremly pleased.
About time there's some consequences for picking blue.

[CroGamer002]

It wouldn't even make sense if Wrex wanted to ally with Rachni.

[Ahriman]

Why do you think krogans hate rachni? They hate salarians much more, because they
a) defeated krogans
defeatead them in 'unfair' way.

[MrDizazta]

Screw other Krogan. All I need is Wrex.

[GodWood]

Arcian wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I would be extremly pleased.
About time there's some consequences for picking blue.

As if there are consequences for picking red.

The Council races hate humanity and there's a cold war brewing between the humans and the turians.
That's a consequence (and a bloody believable one too)

Modifié par GodWood, 23 avril 2011 - 09:17 .

[seirhart]

GodWood wrote...

Arcian wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I would be extremly pleased.
About time there's some consequences for picking blue.

As if there are consequences for picking red.

The Council races hate humanity and there's a cold war brewing between the humans and the turians.
That's a consequence (and a bloody believable one too)

hmmm that may be true if you let the council die; but if you save the council then you will hear how the turians are more willing to make more payments to the alliance as well as the turians and alliance working on more ventures ie patroling a system together etc

[GodWood]

seirhart wrote...
hmmm that may be true if you let the council die; but if you save the council then you will hear how the turians are more willing to make more payments to the alliance as well as the turians and alliance working on more ventures ie patroling a system together etc

Which is a postive consequence.
We were discussing the paragon's lack of negative consequences.

[GodWood]

Arcian wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Arcian wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I would be extremly pleased.
About time there's some consequences for picking blue.

As if there are consequences for picking red.

The Council races hate humanity and there's a cold war brewing between the humans and the turians.
That's a consequence (and a bloody believable one too)

But the whole point of being renegade is that you don't give a **** about what aliens think.

Umm, no. 

Wiping out the Council has made humanity stronger and everyone else weaker. Hence consequence = desirable outcome.

Again this is based on your assumption that people sacrifice the Council to simply secure human dominance.

This is not true.

I had my Shepard sacrifice the Council because he didn't want to risk saving the Ascension and instead chose to focus on Sovereign.
Because of this choice he has both positive AND negative consequences just like paragon decisions should.

[lovgreno]

Krogans or rachni, now that would be a hard choice... And therefore I welcome it!

[CroGamer002]

GodWood wrote...

Arcian wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I would be extremly pleased.
About time there's some consequences for picking blue.

As if there are consequences for picking red.

The Council races hate humanity and there's a cold war brewing between the humans and the turians.
That's a consequence (and a bloody believable one too)

Only Turians hate humans if you killed the Council.

Others just think humans are invoking the coup. Hell those people don't like humans even if you saved the Council.



Besides, shouldn't Renegade don't give a damn what people think about him/her?

[CroGamer002]

GodWood wrote...

Because of this choice he has both positive AND negative consequences just like paragon decisions should.

Don't some people started to dislike old Council if you saved them?
Here's a negative consequence.

[GodWood]

Mesina2 wrote...
Besides, shouldn't Renegade don't give a damn what people think about him/her?

I don't
I actually like it
It adds drama
Drama is good

The point is that renegade decisions have both negative and positive consequences, paragons so far have yet to receive any real negative consequences and I was simply welcoming the possibility suggested by this thread.

Arcian wrote...
How you interpret Shepard's choices has no bearing on the baseline plotline of the game itself, nor the way paragon and renegade are meant to function. Your renegade choice to kill off the Council has led to humanity becoming stronger and everyone else becoming weaker, with humanity becoming hated for better or worse or if it was your intent or not. The distinction is really only in your mind, and BioWare aren't paid to design their games according to the way you interpret their plot.

Okay dude, cool beans.
Bioware can't interpret the reasoning behind my decisions.
I'm fully aware of this but it's honestly not relevent to my original point.
I said it's good to see that blue is having some negative consequences.
You said red has had none.
I gave an example of where they have.
Simple as that.

You may interpret a choice one way, but going red is still going red. You side with the bad guys, and the bad guys win. There's a reason why killing the Council has humanity end up in control of the new Council one way or another. They don't call it evil, but that's about the only difference.

*facepalm*

Modifié par GodWood, 23 avril 2011 - 02:22 .

[eternalnightmare13]

omgodzilla wrote...

Obviously Bioware has to balance the pros and cons of being Paragon or Renegade. One cannot be more benificial than the other. So would you be pissed if most of the Krogan clans refuse to help you out in the fight against the Reapers IF you saved the Rachni? Wrex and Clan Urdnot would still fight for you but I don't see how you could convince the rest of them to cooperate with the Rachni. There is just too much bad blood between them. Even Wrex was against the idea of letting the Queen live and he is one of the most open minded Krogan out there. So Paragons would get the Rachni and Clan Urdnot in their army whereas Renegades would get all of the Krogan clans. Seems like a fair trade to me. What do you think?

I wouldn't be pissed because it would make sense and be in accordance with the established canon of the krogan/rachni war and the emotions that still exist about it. 

[Thompson family]

Re: OP

No, because if Shep has the Rachni on his/her side Shep won't need the Krogan.

Modifié par Thompson family, 23 avril 2011 - 02:49 .

[Gabey5]

the krogan dont hate the rachni