So the executive production commitee has informed me that we need to have SOZ-style dialogue in The Wizard's Apprentice 2. I've never really worked with this, so I was wondering if there are tutorials out there for it or if anyone who has used it has any pointers. Thanks.
Incorporating SOZ-style conversations into a campaign
Débuté par
M. Rieder
, avril 22 2011 11:54
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#2
Posté 22 avril 2011 - 11:59
M. Rieder
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Okay, that was easy. I just did a quick search of the old boards and found that all you have to do is to check the "party chat" box in the properties tab of the conversation. Ahhh...... the old boards....nostalgia....
#3
Posté 23 avril 2011 - 06:43
Clyordes
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You're kidding! That's all there is to it? Even I might be able to sort that out.
#4
Posté 23 avril 2011 - 11:15
M. Rieder
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I was completely shocked, too. I thought there would be xml files and all sorts of business to put in various folders. Nope. Just a check in the right block.
#5
Posté 24 avril 2011 - 09:33
Kaldor Silverwand
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The SoZ campaign, as I recall, has a number of scripts that are used with the conversations to handle situations where someone exits the conversation. I haven't looked closely at their purpose, but I suspect they are needed because while you can keep people from exiting during cutscenes, you cannot during the party conversations. I could of course be completely mistaken about this, but I had this on my figure-this-out-before-using-party-conversations list.
Regards
Regards
#6
Posté 24 avril 2011 - 09:57
PJ156
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I would be interested to hear how you get on implimenting this.
My personal preference is for tested interjections and cutscenes for npc's. That way I can force the payer into knowing the npc's point of view and add humour or drama as I wish. The conversation can then be a way for the player to develop thier personality.
It also means I don't have to come up with a line for the npc in every conversation. I think, unless you work hard at it, you run the risk of the npc being notably silent to the degree that the player no longer looks for nodes on that character or you loose the soul of the npc in filler lines that are banaal and lifeless.
The upside is of course that you can use the whole parties skills and your PC is not forced to be the jack of all trades to push the module along but then it is not having the skill choices for all situations that helps towards the replay value of the mod.
Just some thoughts,
PJ
My personal preference is for tested interjections and cutscenes for npc's. That way I can force the payer into knowing the npc's point of view and add humour or drama as I wish. The conversation can then be a way for the player to develop thier personality.
It also means I don't have to come up with a line for the npc in every conversation. I think, unless you work hard at it, you run the risk of the npc being notably silent to the degree that the player no longer looks for nodes on that character or you loose the soul of the npc in filler lines that are banaal and lifeless.
The upside is of course that you can use the whole parties skills and your PC is not forced to be the jack of all trades to push the module along but then it is not having the skill choices for all situations that helps towards the replay value of the mod.
Just some thoughts,
PJ
#7
Posté 24 avril 2011 - 10:37
M. Rieder
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@Kaldor,
I'm not sure if this is what you are talking about, but if you check the multiplayer cutscene box in the properties tab of the conversation, you can make it where the player cannot move characters during the conversation or do anything else, just like in cutscene mode. The player can still control the camera, but that's it. In some cases, I like this better than cutscene mode.
@PJ
The only reason I have used the SOZ-style is that I have certain conversations where the NPC can talk to non-player owned characters. I wanted the player to still be able to use all the skills and spells in conversation without the spellcaster PC being moved to the front then run-through at the first hint of combat.
For most conversations, I do not have the SOZ-style.
I'm not sure if this is what you are talking about, but if you check the multiplayer cutscene box in the properties tab of the conversation, you can make it where the player cannot move characters during the conversation or do anything else, just like in cutscene mode. The player can still control the camera, but that's it. In some cases, I like this better than cutscene mode.
@PJ
The only reason I have used the SOZ-style is that I have certain conversations where the NPC can talk to non-player owned characters. I wanted the player to still be able to use all the skills and spells in conversation without the spellcaster PC being moved to the front then run-through at the first hint of combat.
For most conversations, I do not have the SOZ-style.
#8
Posté 25 avril 2011 - 03:25
Kaldor Silverwand
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Not sure about that. I'm talking about scripts though. If you open up an SoZ module and look at the party chat conversations you find that they frequently have an abort conversation script and an end conversation script assigned to them. These are custom scripts written for each individual conversation. If they are truly needed then that is a lot of extra work just for the benefit of party chat.M. Rieder wrote...
@Kaldor,
I'm not sure if this is what you are talking about, but if you check the multiplayer cutscene box in the properties tab of the conversation, you can make it where the player cannot move characters during the conversation or do anything else, just like in cutscene mode. The player can still control the camera, but that's it. In some cases, I like this better than cutscene mode.
@PJ
The only reason I have used the SOZ-style is that I have certain conversations where the NPC can talk to non-player owned characters. I wanted the player to still be able to use all the skills and spells in conversation without the spellcaster PC being moved to the front then run-through at the first hint of combat.
You can accomplish that more readily by setting the property "Can Talk to non-Player Owned creatures?" to true on the NPC. Then he can talk to anyone in your party.
Regards
#9
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 01:17
Dorateen
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I would just like to share a little experience since I used SoZ-style conversations almost exclusively in the Edinmoor campaign.
As mentioned above, the only thing needed to do to use the Party Chat interface, is to select that option in the conversation properties.
The key to making various PC lines of dialogue that are specific to characters, whether player created or even developer made companions, is the use of conditional properties on the PC node. The most common ones I used were skill rank, class, alignment, race, and attribute stats. In this manner, any PC response flagged as such will only appear for the party member who has the required conditional.
I also had a joinable companion in this adventure. He had a very specific class, alignment, and deity that is not too common. By setting conditionals for these three properties, I was able to reserve lines of dialogue just for this companion. It is not as dramatic as a cut-scene conversation, but it still allowed the companion to have his voice.
In one important conversation, the only line available (if the companion was in the party) was resereved for those conditional properties, thus making him speak his scripted line in order to progress through the dialogue. Other times, I included additional PC responses as well, so the player could choose if they wanted the companion to speak, or one of their characters.
Another thing I liked to do was give DM style narration at the beginning of certain areas, or on placeables, still using the SOZ style conversation. Then there would be multiple PC responses based on conditionals, which allowed those party-members to make comments. I found with the use of this format, the characters hardly seemed silent.
Those are pretty much the key points I would add. Obviously, I think the idea of going with a SoZ-style conversation is an excellent choice.
Harumph!
As mentioned above, the only thing needed to do to use the Party Chat interface, is to select that option in the conversation properties.
The key to making various PC lines of dialogue that are specific to characters, whether player created or even developer made companions, is the use of conditional properties on the PC node. The most common ones I used were skill rank, class, alignment, race, and attribute stats. In this manner, any PC response flagged as such will only appear for the party member who has the required conditional.
I also had a joinable companion in this adventure. He had a very specific class, alignment, and deity that is not too common. By setting conditionals for these three properties, I was able to reserve lines of dialogue just for this companion. It is not as dramatic as a cut-scene conversation, but it still allowed the companion to have his voice.
In one important conversation, the only line available (if the companion was in the party) was resereved for those conditional properties, thus making him speak his scripted line in order to progress through the dialogue. Other times, I included additional PC responses as well, so the player could choose if they wanted the companion to speak, or one of their characters.
Another thing I liked to do was give DM style narration at the beginning of certain areas, or on placeables, still using the SOZ style conversation. Then there would be multiple PC responses based on conditionals, which allowed those party-members to make comments. I found with the use of this format, the characters hardly seemed silent.
Those are pretty much the key points I would add. Obviously, I think the idea of going with a SoZ-style conversation is an excellent choice.
Harumph!
#10
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 01:45
Kaldor Silverwand
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Dorateen,
Did you investigate the use of the abort and end conversation scripts used in SoZ? I'm hoping that they are an SoZ oddity and wouldn't necessarily be required. I'm wondering what conversation design decisions need to be made so that they would not be needed.
Regards
Did you investigate the use of the abort and end conversation scripts used in SoZ? I'm hoping that they are an SoZ oddity and wouldn't necessarily be required. I'm wondering what conversation design decisions need to be made so that they would not be needed.
Regards
#11
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 01:53
Dorateen
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Hey Kaldor,
I never looked into any of those scripts, and did not even know they existed. So I would say, they are absolutely not required for party chat conversations.
The issue, I believe is players escaping a conversation? The way I see it, there is never any reason for a player to cancel out a conversation, and that would lead to lots of potential game-breaking problems if they did. I would expect players to know better, and not have to put any additional precautions via scripting on each conversation.
I have never received any feedback or bug report about this from people playing the module.
I never looked into any of those scripts, and did not even know they existed. So I would say, they are absolutely not required for party chat conversations.
The issue, I believe is players escaping a conversation? The way I see it, there is never any reason for a player to cancel out a conversation, and that would lead to lots of potential game-breaking problems if they did. I would expect players to know better, and not have to put any additional precautions via scripting on each conversation.
I have never received any feedback or bug report about this from people playing the module.
#12
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 02:35
M. Rieder
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I've done some run-thoughs of my campaign without addressing the abort scripts and things seem fine and players are not able to esc out of conversations. Perhaps that is a SOZ-only thing.
@Dorateen,
That sounds like a really interesting way to use SOZ style dialogue. It seems that it may be easier to check for the NPC's first name as a conditional to see if they are allowed to say a certain phrase instead of checking for other more indirect attributes. The reason I ask is that I may try this in my campaign.
Oooooh, wait, I think I understand. This is for a campaign with a custom created party, not NPC's that come with the game, right? So you use the SOZ-style with certain conditionals to give responses to companions based on their race, alignmeent and such to make sure the comments make sense. Hey, that's a really good idea!
@Dorateen,
That sounds like a really interesting way to use SOZ style dialogue. It seems that it may be easier to check for the NPC's first name as a conditional to see if they are allowed to say a certain phrase instead of checking for other more indirect attributes. The reason I ask is that I may try this in my campaign.
Oooooh, wait, I think I understand. This is for a campaign with a custom created party, not NPC's that come with the game, right? So you use the SOZ-style with certain conditionals to give responses to companions based on their race, alignmeent and such to make sure the comments make sense. Hey, that's a really good idea!
#13
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 02:50
Kaldor Silverwand
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M. Rieder wrote...
I've done some run-thoughs of my campaign without addressing the abort scripts and things seem fine and players are not able to esc out of conversations. Perhaps that is a SOZ-only thing.
Hopefully so. The lack of bug reports is encouraging.
That sounds like a really interesting way to use SOZ style dialogue. It seems that it may be easier to check for the NPC's first name as a conditional to see if they are allowed to say a certain phrase instead of checking for other more indirect attributes.
According to the Broken functions thread the GetFirstName function doesn't retrieve the first name of toolset created creatures properly. The workaround is to use SetFirstName on the creature spawn in to set the name and then GetFirstName will work properly.
Regards
