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Handling Homosexuality different in ME3 then in DA2 - An opinon


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#251
Wittand25

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...



Everybody isn't bisexual in real life either and there shouldn't be a quota for gay or bisexual party members.

In real life Bob is one specific person ("Bob"). Shepard, on the other hand, is not (Shepard could be "Alice" or "Bob" or "Charlie" or ...).

And that's where you're wrong: Shepard, male or female, is for the most part an already defined character. You can make choices, sure, but only within already defined parameters.

Yes I remember you have a family, a backstory and even friends and acquaintances from before the game starts.
Like your sister Bethany, or that girl that was sweet on you in your hometown (if male for female Hawkes she slept with your brother).
No wait that is DA2, the game with the s/s romances. ME lets you choose much more about your background like why you joined the Alliance, why you were picked as specter candidate ...

#252
Ryzaki

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Asari don't really count and Kelly is just a small extra.

Also, the story goes that Mark van der Loo didn't want his likeness to be able to be gay, although I can't verify that.


Kelly still counts though. 

Vanderloo is a model and saying something like that in the modeling industry...it would be momentually stupid. 

Plus if that's the case they could just have the s/s options disabled if you use default Sheploo. Most people use custom Shepard anyway. 

#253
Saeran

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Asari don't really count and Kelly is just a small extra.

Also, the story goes that Mark van der Loo didn't want his likeness to be able to be gay, although I can't verify that.


http://img21.imagesh...2331/asari1.jpg Why don't they count again?

#254
Ryzaki

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Vormaerin wrote...
Apparently, ME subscribes to the 'only girls can be gay' rule.  :pinched:

And if anyone claims that Aveline being momentarily curious after you practically hurl yourself at her feet....which she completely misses with a "I know there was never anything there (except for the dozen blatant flirts tossed her way!)"....makes her bisexual is just being a doofus.


:lol: 

Aveline good lord Aveline. I practically felt was holding a "I LOVE YOU" neon sign right infront of her and she just ignored it. It was painful. 

Add that too the "Just be happy." dialogue choice with the broken heart (which I'm 99% certain is supposed to be Hawke's broken heart) and :crying:. Aveline...you giant tease. 

#255
Maugrim

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Ryzaki wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Asari don't really count and Kelly is just a small extra.

Also, the story goes that Mark van der Loo didn't want his likeness to be able to be gay, although I can't verify that.


Kelly still counts though. 

Vanderloo is a model and saying something like that in the modeling industry...it would be momentually stupid. 

Plus if that's the case they could just have the s/s options disabled if you use default Sheploo. Most people use custom Shepard anyway. 


Seriously I have to break out this pic again?   For that stupid, impossible to believe argument.
Image IPB

Nothing gay there! :pinched:

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 23 avril 2011 - 08:04 .


#256
Vormaerin

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Asari don't really count and Kelly is just a small extra.
.


Kelly is just a small extra?  She's got about as much conversation as any of the twits you get achievements for.    Or is she only unimportant because she messes up your "Shepard's sexuality is predefined" argument.

I'd argue the Asari not counting either.   I'm pretty sure that anyone looking at an Asari and getting turned on is not saying  "ooh, asexual alien entity" but rather  "hawt blue chick!".   Regardless of what their real biology is.

#257
Dazaster Dellus

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Personally I wouldn't mind Bioware doing something evenly based with hetero, ******, and Bi sexualities in a brand new series. But for ME I would rather they kept it as is as opposed to "all of a sudden" Ashley is Bi or Garrus is Bi, or Thane is gay. Granted the only person I could see being bi and it fitting with their character is Jack. Possibly Kaidan. Jack for sure, as she mentions sex with a woman in her convo with Shep.

Let's just be real though. This subject is impossible to please everyone. You either have the people on the left saying that they want all LI's to be bi or gay. Then there are the people on the right saying they don't want any LI's to be bi or gay. Then there are the people in the Middle who want it balanced. Say out of 10, 4 straight, 3 bi, 3 gay. But You still can't please them either. Out of those the bi characters aren't pretty enough or are a different race than what they want their character to hook up with. Or the gay characters are 2 female : 1 male ratio meaning there is only one fully gay male to court. I could go on and on with all of the problems that people will find with the game's LI's regardless.

This is why I would like Bioware to stick to their current story and character development instead of saying "oh btw, I'm gay" now or something like that. That would definitely seem like they are just settling on something they really didn't want for their characters just to appease a few people. Like I said, it would be fine for a new series or even a second ME trilogy starring a new group of people of course. But it would not go well with this trilogy. Especially to end with it. Just my opinion.

#258
Russalka

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I would not mind only female Shepard having a same-sex romance option, if this hypocrisy was addressed.

The message from Bioware and so many people is that Shepard (of either sex) is not gay. But she is!

Oh well, there really is nothing more horrible than giving more options to people in how they want to shape their characters, hm?

Modifié par Russalka, 23 avril 2011 - 08:03 .


#259
Inquisitor Recon

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Saeran wrote...
Double standard's bro, still banging those 7 gram rocks?


If one looks hard enough they can find double standards anywhere. "Deal with it."

The fact is "hot alien lesbian action" appeals to many male gamers too. Is it a gimmick? Perhaps, but a smart move on their part. And the drugs I'm on are not
available because if you try it once you’ll die – your face will melt
off and your children will weep over your exploded body.

#260
AlexMBrennan

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But many of Shepard's characteristics are pre-determined. What's wrong with this being one of them?

Shepard's service record is fixed - they did something unusual (good, evil or merely really unlikely) and is an Alliance soldier who may or may not have family. Their sex, gender, looks, childhood, personal beliefs, interests, etc (i.e. stuff actually relevant to relationships) are all variable.

#261
Ryzaki

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@makenzieshepard: I have to wonder if they ever accidently fell on each other? That would be awkward.

#262
Guest_rynluna_*

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Clonedzero wrote...
its just a large factor in self identity. therefore being a large part of who you are.


You're still assuming that this is how it is for everyone.  It's not.

the change only bothers me because its retconning established characters. if shepard was able to be gay in the first game i'd have absolutely no problem with it.


There are plenty of other people's Shepards who actually are gay but haven't had the chance to be in a romance with anyone because it wasn't available to them.  Your straight Shepard can still be straight and you the player can decide to not pick the romance dialog option that will initiate a romance with someone.  It's incredibly selfish to be opposed to how someone else will finally have the option to initiate a romance with an existing or new character. 

you're doing a whole lot of assuming of how i think and its alittle insulting actually.  breaking the integrity of the writing and its consistancy between the three games to allow gay relationships in the game is fairly dumb. its a minor thing to add into the game and it completely ruins the sense of consistancy between the three games.


Deal with it.  People like you can't get it through their heads that there is no huge change to characters nor will it be so difficult to just turn someone down.  It's apparently too much of a hassle for you guys.  Tali and Garrus were just Shepard's friends in ME1 but suddenly jumped on his/her train for romance in ME2.  But there's not dozens of threads popping up with people saying the writing was sacrificed because of this.

why would everyone suddenly come out at once? its ridiculous and horrible writing to cater to a specific group of people. its just bad writing.


I'm not asking for everyone to come out at once.  It would be nice if say Ash and Kaidan finally took the plunge and got into a romance with Shepard.  I doubt BioWare will have the time and resources to have a huge coming out party for everyone on the Normandy.  The bold part is again, quite selfish of you to think that just because we are in the minority, it's ridiculous to throw us a bone or two. 

#263
Inquisitor Recon

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AlexMBrennan wrote...
Shepard's service record is fixed - they did something unusual (good, evil or merely really unlikely) and is an Alliance soldier who may or may not have family. Their sex, gender, looks, childhood, personal beliefs, interests, etc (i.e. stuff actually relevant to relationships) are all variable.


To a degree, but you can't have Shepard collecting stamps for example. Your childhood consists of 1 out of 3 choices as do many of the choices in game. You can't play pacifist Shepard who quits and gets drunk on a resort world.

#264
Eromenos

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Wizz wrote...

*sigh*
Pacifien usually closes such topics. For a reason.


Yeah, and that reason would be to funnel overt gayness into the segregated free-speech zone just to placate the homophobes in this place.

To the OP, try and rethink this. Your statements come across as being homophobic trolling by way of "compassionate" disclaimers. You're feeling victimhood over nothing. So, Anders couldn't be forced to play by straight culture's edicts on what does or doesn't constitute "stepping over the line" within our worthless hierarchy of overvalued heterosexual dominance. He's not really the problem then, is he? Not the angle you were aiming for, but since you touched upon it anyway I have to point that out.

You can play DA2 and make yourself happy with whichever companion(s) you actually like.

Think of it this way; Anders spends more time than any of the others contemplating inequality, haves/have-nots, oppression, whitewashing, and liberation. He's bound to take it hardest when he puts himself out there for a man who does not love him back. I think you like the guy and you want to save him from hurt, or at least discomfort here. But he wouldn't be Anders if he were so able to bounce back. Anders never ever dreams small.

Having all-bisexual(or pansexual?) squadmates LIs is the best method. The only people it would hurt are the ones who scream and whine about having to face "hordes" of queer npcs. They would have no more comforts of imaginary boundary-lines for sexuality to keep themselves ensconed in their positions of undue advantage. It's a thing which they feel they're entitled to have reflected even in their very important GAMES. Their entitlements come at significant cost to the people who don't play by their asinine rules.

I don't trust BioWare to handle segregated LI sexualities. When "some people are straight" gets applied, that ends up meaning 99% get straightness pasted onto them and less than a handful just get to be bisexual in ways that "offend homophobic people as little as possible." The beauty of forcing everyone to share the same LIs, rather than segregating them, is that it becomes less likely to find cop-outs among them.

ME3 would do well to at least copy DA2's progress. Kaidan and Ashley can like the same-sex. Those of us who are queer felt as much, and they were even written/performed as such regardless of content that was left out. People assume too much when they claim that those characters must be str8, their "purity" inviolate-

-What a betrayal it would be!
-Players must have a right to know where the obvious queers are!
-They should announce themselves to keep players safe!
-Their kind needs to explain themselves to gamers, and then live or die by straight gamers' judgements before they can be allowed in as friends who are kept to arms-length at best!

Modifié par Eromenos, 23 avril 2011 - 08:16 .


#265
AlexMBrennan

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Your childhood consists of 1 out of 3 choices as do many of the choices in game

Yes. Which means that Shepard's childhood is undetermined until you pick one. Which means it isn't fixed.

#266
Inquisitor Recon

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AlexMBrennan wrote...
Yes. Which means that Shepard's childhood is undetermined until you pick one. Which means it isn't fixed.


And why should sexuality be a selectable option? Oh wait, you don't want it selectable in character creation because that is supposedly "offensive."

#267
Saeran

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ReconTeam wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...
Shepard's service record is fixed - they did something unusual (good, evil or merely really unlikely) and is an Alliance soldier who may or may not have family. Their sex, gender, looks, childhood, personal beliefs, interests, etc (i.e. stuff actually relevant to relationships) are all variable.


To a degree, but you can't have Shepard collecting stamps for example. Your childhood consists of 1 out of 3 choices as do many of the choices in game. You can't play pacifist Shepard who quits and gets drunk on a resort world.


I'll ask again, say one character turns out to be bisexual, he doesn't mention it at all throughout the whole game unless you want to pursue a romance with him through extensive chat choices and actually chasing said option. If he never mentions it to you throughout "your" particular canon of the game, would you still argue against it? Would the choice being there for someone who isn't you scare/annoy you?

#268
Russalka

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ReconTeam wrote...
And why should sexuality be a selectable option? Oh wait, you don't want it selectable in character creation because that is supposedly "offensive."


It is bound to be problematic when some people who suggest it serve it as "turn off gay button" and who reason it by having a divine or natural right to be segregated from all sorts of homosexual behaviour and people.

#269
Almostfaceman

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Eromenos wrote...

Wizz wrote...

*sigh*
Pacifien usually closes such topics. For a reason.


Yeah, and that reason would be to funnel overt gayness into the segregated free-speech zone just to placate the homophobes in this place.


Um, no.  It's because these threads turn into, well, this.

#270
jlb524

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ReconTeam wrote...

The solution is simple here. Don't copy what DA does and stick with the ME formula. Everybody isn't bisexual in real life either and there shouldn't be a quota for gay or bisexual party members.


This is a game meant to provide entertainment by giving people a variety of roleplaying options...not real life.

Not everyone in real life is a convict or some shady merc/terrorist, but we sure have a lot of them in our ME2 party now don't we?

#271
Inquisitor Recon

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Eromenos wrote...
Yeah, and that reason would be to funnel overt gayness into the segregated free-speech zone just to placate the homophobes in this place.


That's funny, because it seems like they've made every effort to placate certain fanatics here who demand everybody be bisexual and think Bioware is "discriminating" for not adding such content.

Where is the "fair representation" of the people of (insert ethnic or religious group here)?

#272
Targy90

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jlb524 wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

The solution is simple here. Don't copy what DA does and stick with the ME formula. Everybody isn't bisexual in real life either and there shouldn't be a quota for gay or bisexual party members.


This is a game meant to provide entertainment by giving people a variety of roleplaying options...not real life.

Not everyone in real life is a convict or some shady merc/terrorist, but we sure have a lot of them in our ME2 party now don't we?


Not everyone in real life can use biotics... hey, wait a minute...

#273
Vormaerin

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jlb524 wrote...

This is a game meant to provide entertainment by giving people a variety of roleplaying options...not real life.


Wait, your real life isn't about storming enemy fortresses as part of an elite commando squad and hobnobbing with wealthy politicos and spies?

#274
Inquisitor Recon

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Saeran wrote...
I'll ask again, say one character turns out to be bisexual, he doesn't mention it at all throughout the whole game unless you want to pursue a romance with him through extensive chat choices and actually chasing said option. If he never mentions it to you throughout "your" particular canon of the game, would you still argue against it? Would the choice being there for someone who isn't you scare/annoy you?


It's one thing if it was a new character, but no I don't approve of basically retconning (yes I used that word, deal with it) pre-existing characters to pander to a certain element of the fanbase.

#275
AngelicMachinery

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JamieCOTC wrote...

Homosexuality in ME3: I don't see it happening to either old or new characters. As for femshep and Liara, I'm certain it will be left ambiguous enough that the player can decide what is going on there.



It better not...