912 réponses à ce sujet

[Saeran]

ReconTeam wrote...

It's one thing if it was a new character, but no I don't approve of basically retconning (yes I used that word, deal with it) pre-existing characters to pander to a certain element of the fanbase.

So you wouldn't care if James Sanders is bi?

[Vormaerin]

ReconTeam wrote...
Where is the "fair representation" of the people of (insert ethnic or religious group here)?

You can pretty much make Shepard any ethnicity you want, though getting the sliders right for Asian phenotypes is pretty difficult (at least, I've not had much luck with it).

As for religion, well... as soon as Shepard can go to church, we'll worry about which churches he can go to.    That's something not in the game at all.   He never states a religious opinion one way or another.   He (or she) does get involved in romance, however.

[Ryzaki]

Actually I think Shepard can say he/she is religious/atheist or ignore the question completely. So...yeah.

Shepard never gets a chance to say anything about his/her sexuality outside of romances.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Double post, sonof*****.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 23 avril 2011 - 08:28 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Saeran wrote...
So you wouldn't care if James Sanders is bi?

Well I think it would still be pandering to that said element of the
fanbase but I would deal with it as long he doesn't act like
Fabulous-Shepard™ and hit on Shepard, as you suggested.

Still going to miss Jacob "The Priiize" Taylor however. We were going to spill some drinks.

[naledgeborn]

This thread is 12 pages of futility. Mass Effect 3 will not have Homosexuality in it. Best to just make a new thread asking for it in Mass Effect: Spin Off. "Better luck next time."

[Saeran]

naledgeborn wrote...

This thread is 12 pages of futility. Mass Effect 3 will not have Homosexuality in it. Best to just make a new thread asking for it in Mass Effect: Spin Off. "Better luck next time."

It's already got homosexuality in it bro.

[Maugrim]

Vormaerin wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...
Where is the "fair representation" of the people of (insert ethnic or religious group here)?

You can pretty much make Shepard any ethnicity you want, though getting the sliders right for Asian phenotypes is pretty difficult (at least, I've not had much luck with it).

As for religion, well... as soon as Shepard can go to church, we'll worry about which churches he can go to.    That's something not in the game at all.   He never states a religious opinion one way or another.   He (or she) does get involved in romance, however.

Actually in ME1 Shep can very vaguely hint at their religiousosity or lack of it in a conversation with Ashley.  So n ow we knocked out both of those...

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 23 avril 2011 - 08:30 .

[AngelicMachinery]

naledgeborn wrote...

This thread is 12 pages of futility. Mass Effect 3 will not have Homosexuality in it. Best to just make a new thread asking for it in Mass Effect: Spin Off. "Better luck next time."

This is notentirely true,   thereis lesbians.  I don't think Liara has cthulu in her crotch...

[jeweledleah]

Ryzaki wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
edited @ Rizaki.  lets take Ashley, for example.  she starts flirting with male Shepard straight out of Eden prime.  she makes oops comments on the Citadel, she worries and waits for Shepard in medibay, she slips up in private conversation and then has to correct herself back into being professional.  only with male shepard. 
same with Kaidan and femshep actualy, the way their romances are written in ME1 is that they are atracted from the start and instead of hitting on them and starting the relationship?  you have to actively end it.  its a completely different mechanic from ME2 and in some ways its a more subtle, functional version of Anders always being in love with Hawke.  (who by the way even if you don't romance him, gives off hints that he still feels something)

that have zero ability to hide the way they feel unless you nip it in a bud.  but only with oposit sex Shepard.  handwaving it away is sloppy.

And again...does Kaidan not do that in her place? Maybe she thought Kaidan was blocking her (And Shepard was more likely to be interested inhim over her) and didn't want to get in the way. [Vice Versa for Kaidan with the additional block of Liara!] 

So again...how does that stop them from being attracted to Shepard? 

Anders is obsessed. (Reminded me of Liara who seemed to like Shepard no matter what he/her did). 

One could argue she also shows signs of being attracted to Shepard even if he/she doesn't feel the same. 

except... what if I put down Kaidan AND liara, and yet Ashley STILL shows not atraction.  those blocks are not there anymore, shepards keeps coming around to talk to her, exactly what is stopping her from expressing atraction if its there? what if I put down Ashley and Liara, and Kaidan still shows no indication of atraction?  he has a chance now, Shepards keeps coming around keeps asking him personal questions and is not romancing anyone else - why not take that chance?  and no don't tell me that they don't know that you are not interested in others - scuttlebutt moves faster then elevators on the Normandy, concidering how quickly everyone finds out about you private conversations with other potential love interests.

I'm not saying that Ashley and Kaidan can never be bisexual, I have long abandoned that particular belief.  but what I AM saying is that they show no atraction to same sex Shepard in ME1 or 2  (if you say "losing you was like losing a limb", I'm going to go hulk smash, they say it to everyone regardless of relationship status, if you pick a specific conversation options - its just bad writing).  in fact in ME2, if you didn't romance them, not only do you part on bad terms - they never contact you.  so.. that love that was always there and they were just hding it?  wish fulfillment and nothing more.

you know why Garrusmance worked?  becasue they DIDN"t try to make it sound as if he was always atracted to Shepard.  he never conciders Shepard as anything more then a friend and a trusted ally, untill you bring it up.  and his romantic feelings grow from that point on. 

Can Ashley and Kaidan fall in love with same sex Shepard in ME3?  if you develop that relationship from scratch, sure.  it can be written.  they can patch up their differences in terms of Cerberus involvement andhorizon, and they can develop into something more then friendship form then on.  but writing it as if they were already in love all this time?  sloppy wish fulfilment worthy of Stephanie Meyer.

now.. is it worth the resurces to expand pre existing character, where all of them but Liara can die, and where there's a 50/50 chance of either of the virmire survivor not being present for ME3, due to well - virmire?   Or is it better to just write all new characters who will be preset in everyone's game, whether you are a veteran of the franchise, or just getting introduced to it and where you don't have huh moments where characters act like you have something going on, when you have no idea what the hell they are talking about, becasue you haven't played previous games?

(I orginilay got into ME by playing ME2 demo and even though it comes with the story so far, it doesn't cover the neuances of the relationships you might have developed in ME1, so I'm honestly not surprised that people who haven't played ME1 took Horizon especialy badly)

[AngelicMachinery]

makenzieshepard wrote...
Actually in ME1 Shep can very vaguely hint at their religiousosity or lack of it in a conversation with Ashley.  So n ow we knocked out both of those...

I just read your sig,  did Gaider really say that?  *Crosses fingers*

[naledgeborn]

Liara is Xenophilia. Unless they bring Kelly back as a full fledged romance, she doesn't count either. As I said, if you want to RP a gay or a lesbian in Mass Effect, best to just push for it in the game after ME3.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 23 avril 2011 - 08:33 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Vormaerin wrote...
You can pretty much make Shepard any ethnicity you want, though getting the sliders right for Asian phenotypes is pretty difficult (at least, I've not had much luck with it).

Technically you could RP as gay Shepard anyway, there just doesn't happen to be anybody who swings that way on the Normandy. Hardly a big deal.

[Maugrim]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...
Actually in ME1 Shep can very vaguely hint at their religiousosity or lack of it in a conversation with Ashley.  So n ow we knocked out both of those...

I just read your sig,  did Gaider really say that?  *Crosses fingers*

Yep I think I'll add a linky because I keep getting asked about it

[Russalka]

Honestly, what can't be viewed as pandering with mass products? 

[jeweledleah]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...
Actually in ME1 Shep can very vaguely hint at their religiousosity or lack of it in a conversation with Ashley.  So n ow we knocked out both of those...

I just read your sig,  did Gaider really say that?  *Crosses fingers*

yes he really did and it actualy made me dislike him a little less (I don't dislike him becasue of the same sex relationships, i dislike him becasue he's a sadistic bastard, who is allergic to happy endings and he likes to retcon deaths, that he himself engineered as possible before)

[Eromenos]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Wizz wrote...

*sigh*
Pacifien usually closes such topics. For a reason.

Yeah, and that reason would be to funnel overt gayness into the segregated free-speech zone just to placate the homophobes in this place.

Um, no.  It's because these threads turn into, well, this.

www.ign.com/blogs/next-gen-gamer/2010/02/04/mass-effect-2-bad-romance

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...
except... what if I put down Kaidan AND liara, and yet Ashley STILL shows not atraction.  those blocks are not there anymore, shepards keeps coming around to talk to her, exactly what is stopping her from expressing atraction if its there? what if I put down Ashley and Liara, and Kaidan still shows no indication of atraction?  he has a chance now, Shepards keeps coming around keeps asking him personal questions and is not romancing anyone else - why not take that chance?  and no don't tell me that they don't know that you are not interested in others - scuttlebutt moves faster then elevators on the Normandy, concidering how quickly everyone finds out about you private conversations with other potential love interests.

If you put down Ashley and Liara and Kaidan shows no sign of attraction it's probably due to Shepard not saying anything first. Especially considering your rejections of them are almost always harsh (hell I don't recall being able to gently reject anyone). So yeah...who is really gonna want to take a risk on the Commander who bites peoples head off? (Rejecting them later usualy means getting trapped in their romance). 

Heck I don't recall being able to reject Liara nicely. I just avoided talking to her. And who is gonna then try to hit up on the Commander who doesn't talk to his/her subordinates because they have feelings for them? Last thing you'd want is them to start avoiding you too. 

Edit: It was *Ashley* I couldn't reject nicely not Liara. LIara was bugged so that she'd stay with my renegade who told her NO. 

I'm not saying that Ashley and Kaidan can never be bisexual, I have long abandoned that particular belief.  but what I AM saying is that they show no atraction to same sex Shepard in ME1 or 2  (if you say "losing you was like losing a limb", I'm going to go hulk smash, they say it to everyone regardless of relationship status, if you pick a specific conversation options - its just bad writing).  in fact in ME2, if you didn't romance them, not only do you part on bad terms - they never contact you.  so.. that love that was always there and they were just hding it?  wish fulfillment and nothing more.

They never contact you except for that one letter in a romance. Does that mean they didn't really care about Shepard all that much? It could be just maybe they didn't think they had the nerve to send an apology to Shepard (which I thought was ridculous). And the last bit is ridculous. They parted on bad terms period, you'd want your friend to stay mad at you more than an ex lover? Them not writing a letter either way was probably to add romance content and reduce extra work. (They should've written a letter regardless). 

Heck if they *thought* they were in love with Shepard maybe they couldn't find the words to say properly (would work with friend Shepard as well) and got frustrated and decided not to write at all. Maybe an actual romance was the push they needed to send the email. 

you know why Garrusmance worked?  becasue they DIDN"t try to make it sound as if he was always atracted to Shepard.  he never conciders Shepard as anything more then a friend and a trusted ally, untill you bring it up.  and his romantic feelings grow from that point on. 

Can Ashley and Kaidan fall in love with same sex Shepard in ME3?  if you develop that relationship from scratch, sure.  it can be written.  they can patch up their differences in terms of Cerberus involvement andhorizon, and they can develop into something more then friendship form then on.  but writing it as if they were already in love all this time?  sloppy wish fulfilment worthy of Stephanie Meyer.

Are you saying the Talimance didn't work? Maybe not for you (not for me either) but it worked for plenty of people. 

Okay then. (My view was personally that they feel in love with Shepard after he/she saved their lives. But by that point the ship has sailed.)  After Virmire things are simply too hectic and they can't really find the time to approach Shepard. 

now.. is it worth the resurces to expand pre existing character, where all of them but Liara can die, and where there's a 50/50 chance of either of the virmire survivor not being present for ME3, due to well - virmire?   Or is it better to just write all new characters who will be preset in everyone's game, whether you are a veteran of the franchise, or just getting introduced to it and where you don't have huh moments where characters act like you have something going on, when you have no idea what the hell they are talking about, becasue you haven't played previous games?

(I orginilay got into ME by playing ME2 demo and even though it comes with the story so far, it doesn't cover the neuances of the relationships you might have developed in ME1, so I'm honestly not surprised that people who haven't played ME1 took Horizon especialy badly)

Then wouldn't it be better simply not to include Kaidan/Ashley at all? Since they might not be in some people's game. And Ash should have far more content than Kaidan since she has a higher chance of being alive. 

You mean like Garrus and his old times bit to people new to ME2? Sorry if I don't care about someone who jumps into the end of a trilogy and ends up confused. They can read the wiki or play the first game (heck even watch it on youtube). So no I don't expect the writers to care more about you than someone else if you're confused about character relationships because you decided to pop into the movie at the last hour. (Maybe they can give a character codex, or have another previously on Mass Effect thing).

Edit: Give a damn was a bit strong. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 avril 2011 - 09:00 .

[Clonedzero]

Saeran wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

It's one thing if it was a new character, but no I don't approve of basically retconning (yes I used that word, deal with it) pre-existing characters to pander to a certain element of the fanbase.

So you wouldn't care if James Sanders is bi?

thats the point we'v ebeen trying to make for the last like 5 pages.
we dont mind the gay relationships, we mind them changing established charages with "they were bi all along! TEEHEE!" retconns.

its not about being against gay relationships, its about forcing them in the third act of a trilogy when there was no indication of anything of that nature in earlier games. i honestly dont think there would be any possible way to work them into the game without it feeling extremely forced. the closest one i could think of is introducing a new bi character.

hell i wouldnt mind if james sanders is exclusively gay and openly hit on my staight male shepard. i'd be cool with that.

what im against is the bad writing which would be required to retconn and shoe-horn gay romances into ME3.

[SalsaDMA]

CaptainIsabela wrote...

I don't understand why BW would have to handle anything differently. There was nothing wrong with the romance options for us gays in DA2..and straight people who have a problem with it need to get over themselves.

Let's make an answer for that:


I don't understand why BW would have to handle anything differently.
There was nothing wrong with the romance options for us straigth people in ME1 or ME2.. and gay people who have a problem with it need to get over
themselves.

Notice anything?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Another one of these threads? lmao......

As ReconTeam said, "everybody isn't bisexual in real life either and there shouldn't be a quota for gay or bisexual party members."

I agree with this, because exactly how many people do you actually come across that are gay/bi?

I barely see any.

Me, personally, though, I would be fine if we had new characters that are bi.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@clonedzero That was the point of my thread, and all I got was flamed.......

[AngelicMachinery]

SalsaDMA wrote...

CaptainIsabela wrote...

I don't understand why BW would have to handle anything differently. There was nothing wrong with the romance options for us gays in DA2..and straight people who have a problem with it need to get over themselves.

Let's make an answer for that:


I don't understand why BW would have to handle anything differently.
There was nothing wrong with the romance options for us straigth people in ME1 or ME2.. and gay people who have a problem with it need to get over
themselves.

Notice anything?

Thereis a difference here though,  I'm surprised you don't see it.  You didn't lose any content by the everyone is BI choice,  someone simply gained content. 

[Almostfaceman]

Eromenos wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Wizz wrote...

*sigh*
Pacifien usually closes such topics. For a reason.

Yeah, and that reason would be to funnel overt gayness into the segregated free-speech zone just to placate the homophobes in this place.

Um, no.  It's because these threads turn into, well, this.

www.ign.com/blogs/next-gen-gamer/2010/02/04/mass-effect-2-bad-romance

Any thread over a topic that people fight over and call each other names over and flame one another - is a nightmare to moderate on public boards with site rules similiar to this one's.  They get locked.  As a mod on other boards, I've locked threads that devolve into this for a wide variety of topics, not just homosexuality.  Examples of topics that usually turn into flame wars are: homosexuality, abortion, the death penalty, racism - you get the point.