912 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

CaptainIsabela wrote...

I don't understand why BW would have to handle anything differently. There was nothing wrong with the romance options for us gays in DA2..and straight people who have a problem with it need to get over themselves.

Let's make an answer for that:


I don't understand why BW would have to handle anything differently.
There was nothing wrong with the romance options for us straigth people in ME1 or ME2.. and gay people who have a problem with it need to get over
themselves.

Notice anything?

Thereis a difference here though,  I'm surprised you don't see it.  You didn't lose any content by the everyone is BI choice,  someone simply gained content. 

and there's not even a massive waste of resources. I forgot the dev quote but making a LI bi isn't much effort at all. 

[Vormaerin]

ReconTeam wrote...

Technically you could RP as gay Shepard anyway, there just doesn't happen to be anybody who swings that way on the Normandy. Hardly a big deal.

Technically, I could RP Shepard as a secret xenomorph shapeshifter from the Gamma Quadrant sent to the Council to help with the Reaper Threat, too.   

There's no reason for the developers to bother including romances at all (they aren't necessary for the story, after all) and then make sure that they only appeal to a subset of the fans.

If it was up to me, they'd ditch romances entirely and leave that to the fanfictioners.  Spend all that dialogue time on stuff everyone can use.    The whole team going silent except your LI is annoying.

But that would be dumb, because lots of people like romances and the game gains value from them, whether I bother with them or not.  Going with romances and then saying "only girls can be gay" is especially stupid, imho.

[Clonedzero]

rynluna wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
 its about forcing them in the third act of a trilogy when there was no indication of anything of that nature in earlier games.

Tali and Garrus say, "hi."

yup, i even mentioned that i hated their forced romance fanservice in this thread a couple pages back.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

If Bioware changed the LIs (current ones) and made them all of a sudden bi in ME3, I will feel that consistency has been lost on the game.

[jeweledleah]

Ryzaki wrote...

If you put down Ashley and Liara and Kaidan shows no sign of attraction it's probably due to Shepard not saying anything first. Especially considering your rejections of them are almost always harsh (hell I don't recall being able to gently reject anyone). So yeah...who is really gonna want to take a risk on the Commander who bites peoples head off? (Rejecting them later usualy means getting trapped in their romance). 

Heck I don't recall being able to reject Liara nicely. I just avoided talking to her. And who is gonna then try to hit up on the Commander who doesn't talk to his/her subordinates because they have feelings for them? Last thing you'd want is them to start avoiding you too.

Kaidan - just be ready when the time comes - an option right before "I was just waiting for a good part" choice - stops the romance
Liara - I'm not interested in you that way - neutral option and surprisingly the one that is NOT bugged
Ashley - something similar to Kaidan, I've been mostly playing femsheps lately, so I simply cannot remember for sure, but its actual ya more obvious and less ****y otion then the one for Kaidan IF you skip "just be ready" part

none of these characters are THAt timid, you are trying to create something that was not written in and therfore not accounted for.

They never contact you except for that one letter in a romance. Does that mean they didn't really care about Shepard all that much? It could be just maybe they didn't think they had the nerve to send an apology to Shepard (which I thought was ridculous).

yes, not having the nerf to send appology IS ridiculous, but its more likely that unless they were in love, they just have chosen to move on completely/didn't feel it was necessary to apologize.

Are you saying the Talimance didn't work? Maybe not for you (not for me either) but it worked for plenty of people. 

Okay then. (My view was personally that they feel in love with Shepard after he/she saved their lives. But by that point the ship has sailed.)  After Virmire things are simply too hectic and they can't really find the time to approach Shepard.

Talimance woudln't have been as bad if they didn't try to make it as if Tali was in love with Shepard from the start.  it would have worked perfectly fine without that particular titbit, in fact the idea that she trusts Shepard more then anyone else ian wolrd is a pretty colol one, and heck, they could have used an idea similar to Garrusmance, that she falls in love after Shepard shows the resiprocation of that trust.  and As for Kaidan/Ashley - they are atracted to you at Eden prime, but they are not in love.  they get over you extremely easily if you stop the romance in first conversation, they mention mixed signals if you let it go on further.

Then wouldn't it be better simply not to include Kaidan/Ashley at all? Since they might not be in some people'sgame. 

You mean like Garrus and his old times bit to people new to ME2? Sorry if I don't care about someone who jumps into the end of a trilogy and ends up confused. They can read the wiki or play the first game (heck even watch it on youtube). So no I don't expect the writers to give a damn if you're confused about character relationships because you decided to pop into the movie at the last hour. (Maybe they can give a character codex, or have another previously on Mass Effect thing). 

you might not care, but developers do care.  they wouldn't have claimed that ME3 is a good place to enter a trilogy if they didn't care.  and as for not including Ash/Kaidan, outside of their romance paths, their interaction with male/female Shepard is identical.  they can be written to fulfill the same role.  its a lot less variables to worry about, all you need to do is make sure they are not so interchangable that they have identical personalities, and that has nothing to do with sexuality or shepard's gender. 

romantic subplots are optional content.  general storyline is not.


P.S. to adress the claim that making characters bi doesn't take a lot of resources at all.  no it doesn't when you write their romances as identical (as they did in DA2 - even rivalry/friendship paths are near identical), when you didn't originaly write them as oposite gender romance only and therefore you don't have to adress THAT.

that's why I kep saying that writing a new bisexual character will be easier and cheaper then trying to adjust old ones.  in before Anders - regadless of my isseus with his character, he was NOT a romance option intill DA2 and he doens't have prior history with Hawke.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 23 avril 2011 - 09:04 .

[Vormaerin]

naledgeborn wrote...

Liara is Xenophilia. Unless they bring Kelly back as a full fledged romance, she doesn't count either. As I said, if you want to RP a gay or a lesbian in Mass Effect, best to just push for it in the game after ME3.

Oh yeah, it doesn't count if it doesn't agree with your point of view.

Obviously, being gay with Thane or Garrus wouldn't be gay because it would be xenophilia?   Same deal with Femshep Talimancers?

[Chewin]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

If Bioware changed the LIs (current ones) and made them all of a sudden bi in ME3, I will feel that consistency has been lost on the game.

Well that I would call fan service

Modifié par Chewin3, 23 avril 2011 - 09:02 .

[jlb524]

I think it's so unrealistic that there were so many non-humans on Shepard's team in ME2, given that it was a Cerberus operation....they should have kept Tali/Garrus off the team and replaced them with two humans.

It broke my immersion, man!

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Regarding the Tali and Garrus romance:

It doesn't matter whether it was fan service or not.

What's done is done. And isn't just about everything fan service?

[Ryzaki]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

If Bioware changed the LIs (current ones) and made them all of a sudden bi in ME3, I will feel that consistency has been lost on the game.

I'm sure people felt that way about Garrus and Tali becoming LIs. 

That said I don't want *everyone* becoming bisexual. There's simply too many characters and too many paths and it would be too contrived. I wouldn't be remiss to Tali/Garrus/Ash/Kaidan becoming open to s/s romances though. (Either them or someone new like Joker or Sanders.) 

[Redhot_1]

Chewin3 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

If Bioware changed the LIs (current ones) and made them all of a sudden bi in ME3, I will feel that consistency has been lost on the game.

Well that I would call fan service

Ugh, I hate that word...

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@jlb524

Those are aren't the same. Those are explained good enough, while everyone turning bi makes NO sense (my opinion of course).

[Saeran]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Regarding the Tali and Garrus romance:

It doesn't matter whether it was fan service or not.

What's done is done. And isn't just about everything fan service?

Well if consistency was gone through that one act.. Why should having say Kaiden bi cause such an uproar?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@Saeran Why do we need to do it again?

[Targy90]

Saeran wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Regarding the Tali and Garrus romance:

It doesn't matter whether it was fan service or not.

What's done is done. And isn't just about everything fan service?

Well if consistency was gone through that one act.. Why should having say Kaiden bi cause such an uproar?

Because Kaiden has never been and never will be a LI for mShep. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Modifié par Targy90, 23 avril 2011 - 09:07 .

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote..

Kaidan - just be ready when the time comes - an option right before "I was just waiting for a good part" choice - stops the romance
Liara - I'm not interested in you that way - neutral option and surprisingly the one that is NOT bugged
Ashley - something similar to Kaidan, I've been mostly playing femsheps lately, so I simply cannot remember for sure, but its actual ya more obvious and less ****y otion then the one for Kaidan IF you skip "just be ready" part.

Have you not been flirting with them already by that point? Everytime I try to end the romance at the first conversation I sound like a douche. 

Liara yeah her's isn't bugged. I mixed her up with Ash. And it sounded pretty jerkish to me. 

none of these characters are THAt timid, you are trying to create something that was not written in and therfore not accounted for.

You mean Ash doesn't back off the second Shepard tells her to act like a soldier? Or Kaidan doesn't do the same? You mean Kaidan wouldn't find it imprudent to confess to Shepard when he/she has a lot of things on their plate?

yes, not having the nerf to send appology IS ridiculous, but its more likely that unless they were in love, they just have chosen to move on completely/didn't feel it was necessary to apologize.

I don't buy it. They might've *wanted* to apologize but it kept sounding wrong. From my view the only thing that made them send that letter was the memory of the night on Ilos and the fact that they knew Shepard loved them back. 

Talimance woudln't have been as bad if they didn't try to make it as if Tali was in love with Shepard from the start.  it would have worked perfectly fine without that particular titbit, in fact the idea that she trusts Shepard more then anyone else ian wolrd is a pretty colol one, and heck, they could have used an idea similar to Garrusmance, that she falls in love after Shepard shows the resiprocation of that trust.  and As for Kaidan/Ashley - they are atracted to you at Eden prime, but they are not in love.  they get over you extremely easily if you stop the romance in first conversation, they mention mixed signals if you let it go on further.

I never said they were in love during the first convo. (Hell I'd find that ridculous) but after going through hell and high water with someone? Having that person save your life? Yes I can see them slowly developing feelings after that. 

you might not care, but developers do care.  they wouldn't have claimed that ME3 is a good place to enter a trilogy if they didn't care.  and as for not including Ash/Kaidan, outside of their romance paths, their interaction with male/female Shepard is identical.  they can be written to fulfill the same role.  its a lot less variables to worry about, all you need to do is make sure they are not so interchangable that they have identical personalities, and that has nothing to do with sexuality or shepard's gender. 

romantic subplots are optional content.  general storyline is not.

Except they already can be paragon/renegad'd have a romance with Shepard/not have a romance with Shepard. Adding two more variables (especially if they decide it'd be easier simply to open them up to any Shepard in the end installment (male and female) for any newcomers so yes I can see them. 

Romantic subplots are very easy (at least according to the DA2 devs) to put in. The general storyline wouldn't need to change to accomdate this. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 avril 2011 - 09:10 .

[Saeran]

Targy90 wrote...

Saeran wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Regarding the Tali and Garrus romance:

It doesn't matter whether it was fan service or not.

What's done is done. And isn't just about everything fan service?

Well if consistency was gone through that one act.. Why should having say Kaiden bi cause such an uproar?

Because Kaiden has never been and never will be a LI for mShep. Sorry to burst your bubble.

And so it begins again, full circle.

[jlb524]

Targy90 wrote...

Saeran wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Regarding the Tali and Garrus romance:

It doesn't matter whether it was fan service or not.

What's done is done. And isn't just about everything fan service?

Well if consistency was gone through that one act.. Why should having say Kaiden bi cause such an uproar?

Because Kaiden has never been and never will be a LI for mShep. Sorry to burst your bubble.

You can say the exact same thing about Tali/Garrus in ME1...

[AngelicMachinery]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

If Bioware changed the LIs (current ones) and made them all of a sudden bi in ME3, I will feel that consistency has been lost on the game.

What if they weren't all suddenly bi?  Say it was Kaiden or Ashley.  It's not unheard of of someone coming out later on in their lives.

[jlb524]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@jlb524

Those are aren't the same. Those are explained good enough, while everyone turning bi makes NO sense (my opinion of course).

I don't think it was explained at all.  It made NO sense.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@AngelicMachinery

How many people are actually bi? Not everyone, so I feel that it is unrealistic, even for Ashley or Kaidan. I just want the characters to stay constant.

[Maria Caliban]

ME 3 isn't going to have all the love interests be bisexual. You'll be lucky to even see m/m in Mass Effect. Heck, the lead designer says FemShep/Liara isn't a same-sex couple.


Mass Effect is the straightverse. Thedas is the biverse.