912 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

makenzieshepard wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...


new characters though?  just write identical romance paths for either gender that's availalbe to everyone regardless of their choices in prior 2 games and call it a day. pretty sure they are adding some new characters anyways.

Sounds kinda lazy and sloppy...oh right the hypocrisy thing.   Sorry forgot, the same rules don't apply to you!

 

[Inquisitor Recon]

rynluna wrote...
That it does but the pro s/s people have a massive amount of "go play another game or that's what fanfiction is for" to contend with.  And it's usually coming from the same opposing people.  Makes you wonder why they spend so much time on the gay issues rather than all the other inclusions people ask for.

People are wrong on the internet, and as a certified keyboard warrior I cannot rest knowing that.

Most downright foolish ideas have the habit of dying out rather peacefully. Only a few of the Tali related ones have risen from the grave as often as this. Somethings are indeed better left to fanfiction and this is one of them. The romances are a minor feature entirely and I'm sure not everybody gets exactly what they want in this regard. What makes you guys so exceptional that Bioware owes you gay LIs? Plus it is controversy for one of EA's flagship franchises that they probably want to avoid.

And yes I am comparing you to the Talimancers, although they've died down somewhat compared to the dark days of old.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

The pro s/s side seems to be full of sarcastic remarks and insults.

[Ryzaki]

Ah why am I bothering? It's pointless. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 avril 2011 - 10:52 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@Ryzaki Shepard doesn't get every person.

[Maugrim]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

The pro s/s side seems to be full of sarcastic remarks and insults.

It's part and parcel of actually having a coherent argument with all the bells and whistles...like facts for example!

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 23 avril 2011 - 10:55 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Ryzaki wrote...
Ah why am I bothering? It's pointless. 

Neither side will back down, such is the ways of the internet.

makenzieshepard wrote...
It's part and parcel of actually have a coherent argument with all the bells and whistles...like facts for example!

Like the fact you seem to suffer from an undeserved sense of entitlement? I.E. "Liara and Kelly mean Bioware owes us."

Modifié par ReconTeam, 23 avril 2011 - 10:57 .

[jeweledleah]

Ryzaki wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...


new characters though?  just write identical romance paths for either gender that's availalbe to everyone regardless of their choices in prior 2 games and call it a day. pretty sure they are adding some new characters anyways.

Sounds kinda lazy and sloppy...oh right the hypocrisy thing.   Sorry forgot, the same rules don't apply to you!

 

right personal insults.  btw - I never said bioware were lazy, I said they had limited resources, and I said that Anders romance arc and his personality in general were handled sloppily.

see, you don't want a compromise.  you are not looking for equal treatment.  you want specific characters to behave a specific way to cater to your fantasies.  which is fine, just don't get all indignant when you get called out on it and accused of wanting fanserivce.  becaue its exactly waht you are looking for.

[Ryzaki]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@Ryzaki Shepard doesn't get every person.

Oh? You mean out of 19 crew members (I'll be nice and include Joker/Chakwas) Shepard doesn't date most of them? 

Let's see who Shepard dates out of the crew. 

Kaidan - romanceable
Ashley - romanceable
Liara - romanceable
Joker - non romanceable
Chakwas - non romanceable
Legion - isn't even organic [Let's ignore the awkward silences with him] 
Zaeed - non romaceable
Tali - romanceable
Garrus - romanceabl
Thane - romanceable
Grunt - nonromanceable
Wrex - nonromanceable 
Jack - romanceable
Miranda - romanceable
Jacob - romancable 
Samara - a pseudo romance (You can start it but she shuts you down)
Morinth - a pseudo romance (You can start itbut you'll die.) 
Mordin - nonromanceable
Kasumi - nonromanceable

That's certainly a large segement you can romance! And the only humans you *can't* romance are DLC and Joker! Now if we were to filter out those who aren't going to be romanceable (*cough*Legion*cough*). You get 18 characters. Of those 18, half are LIs. The likeihood of that isn't high. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 avril 2011 - 11:01 .

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...
right personal insults.  btw - I never said bioware were lazy, I said they had limited resources, and I said that Anders romance arc and his personality in general were handled sloppily.

see, you don't want a compromise.  you are not looking for equal treatment.  you want specific characters to behave a specific way to cater to your fantasies.  which is fine, just don't get all indignant when you get called out on it and accused of wanting fanserivce.  becaue its exactly waht you are looking for.

And was I insulting you? Why are you so defensive if that's not what you meant? 

And here we go. When did I get indigant? Please by all means tell me when I've said the romances *weren't* fanservice. I'm fully aware it's fanservice. As is the romances period.It's a fanservice. It always *has* been fanservice. It always *will* be fanservice. (Until the day comes where the romances *aren't* optional and are a part of the main plot.)  I've always been an equal opportunity fanservice person. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 avril 2011 - 11:03 .

[Almostfaceman]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ah why am I bothering? It's pointless. 

Like I pointed out earlier...

This is the song that doesn't end.  Yes it goes on and on my friends.  Some people, star-ted sing-ing it not knowing what it was.  And they'll continue singing it forever just because!...
This is the song that doesn't end.  Yes it goes on and on my friends.  Some people, star-ted sing-ing it not knowing what it was.  And they'll continue singing it forever just because!...
This is the song that doesn't end.  Yes it goes on and on my friends.  Some people, star-ted sing-ing it not knowing what it was.  And they'll continue singing it forever just because!...

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 23 avril 2011 - 11:00 .

[Targy90]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@Ryzaki Shepard doesn't get every person.

Oh? You mean out of 18 crew members (I'll be nice and include Joker/Chakwas) Shepard doesn't date most of them? 

Let's see who Shepard dates out of the crew. 

Kaidan - romanceable
Ashley - romanceable
Liara - romanceable
Joker - non romanceable
Chakwas - non romanceable
Legion - isn't even organic [Let's ignore the awkward silences with him] 
Zaeed - non romaceable
Tali - romanceable
Garrus - romanceabl
Thane - romanceable
Grunt - nonromanceable
Wrex - nonromanceable 
Jack - romanceable
Miranda - romanceable
Jacob - romancable 
Samara - a pseudo romance (You can start it but she shuts you down)
Morinth - a pseudo romance (You can start itbut you'll die.) 
Mordin - nonromanceable

That's certainly a large segement you can romance! And the only humans you *can't* romance are DLC and Joker! 

A hero, a bloody icon.

Modifié par Targy90, 23 avril 2011 - 11:00 .

[spacehamsterZH]

ReconTeam wrote...
The romances are a minor feature entirely and I'm sure not everybody gets exactly what they want in this regard. What makes you guys so exceptional that Bioware owes you gay LIs? Plus it is controversy for one of EA's flagship franchises that they probably want to avoid.

Well... Dragon Age is also a rather high-profile franchise, and somehow it isn't an issue there. I think a lot of the anger stems from that and the fact that there's evidence that same sex romance material was produced for ME1, but never made it into the final game. It's just an odd choice on the part of Bioware and leaves a lot of room for theorizing on why it was done.

I don't really have a horse in this race and like you, I think a lot of people put way too much importance on the romance options in these games. But it's kind of funny how you can absolutely always count on every thread on this topic to explode to eleventy bajillion pages in a matter of a few hours. Never fails.

[jeweledleah]

oh and by the way Ryzaki? you completely missed my point as well - did I say that they cannot be Bi and fall in love with same sex shepard? no. my issue is with desire of having Tali/Liara repeat and having them throw themselves at Shepard, despite the history or lack of there off.

as well as saying that it might just be too resource intensive to pull off well in a timeframe bioware gave themselves for game release.


edited - I quoted you and the post above you acusing me of hypocracy, you agreed with insult juging by the smily face

Modifié par jeweledleah, 23 avril 2011 - 11:03 .

[MACharlie1]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@makenzieshepard

Most people aren't bisexual.

Did a quick research just now on this and you are actually wrong. Relatively few people are 100% heterosexual and very few people are 100% homosexual. 

[Maugrim]

jeweledleah wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...


new characters though?  just write identical romance paths for either gender that's availalbe to everyone regardless of their choices in prior 2 games and call it a day. pretty sure they are adding some new characters anyways.

Sounds kinda lazy and sloppy...oh right the hypocrisy thing.   Sorry forgot, the same rules don't apply to you!

 

right personal insults.  btw - I never said bioware were lazy, I said they had limited resources, and I said that Anders romance arc and his personality in general were handled sloppily.

see, you don't want a compromise.  you are not looking for equal treatment.  you want specific characters to behave a specific way to cater to your fantasies.  which is fine, just don't get all indignant when you get called out on it and accused of wanting fanserivce.  becaue its exactly waht you are looking for.

Except I never made that argument so you are mistaken or lying and frankly at this point I'm not sure which one is worse. I want a female love interest open to Shepard.  I'd like Ashley but tbh it's not a requirment.  The only reason I would really want them all to be bi is for replayability and for all my friends to be happy and get what they want.  Incidentally the majority of them are straight

Your arguments are retcon, changing sexuality etc. and you HAVE NEVER BACKED IT UP NOT ONCE.  And you've displayed an appalling ignorance of basic human sexuality in the process.  It's a bit misleading I'll admit because there isn't enough evidence to prove either person right.  But the fact the you used flawed arguments to cover whining over majority privilege is self-evident.   Don't get upset because you got called on your majority privelage.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 23 avril 2011 - 11:05 .

[Ryzaki]

jeweledleah wrote...

oh and by the way Ryzaki? you completely missed my point as well - did I say that they cannot be Bi and fall in love with same sex shepard? no. my issue is with desire of having Tali/Liara repeat and having them throw themselves at Shepard, despite the history or lack of there off.

as well as saying that it might just be too resource intensive to pull off well in a timeframe bioware gave themselves for game release.

Where did I say you said that? I said I understood where you were coming from with that but to me it wasn't an issue.  Despite their history? Did we not play the same games? Ash/Kaidan have plenty of history with Shepard. 

As for resource intensive unlike the DA2 team the ME2 devs aren't throwing the baby out with the bathwater. They have most of the things they would need to tweak to begin with. So I don't see it as too resource intensive. 

Also I laughed because it's true. You're going on about how Anders bisexuality is bad writing yet on the other hand don't want BW to write well by making Ash/Kaidan bi in a believeable way and instead just piggyback the bi romances on the newer straight ones. 

I mean you started out with this: 

its not even the fact that Anders was retconed, pardon me "expanded" into being bi, but rather how it was done. and it was done very very sloppily. and that 15 rivalry? its the principle of thing, it doesn't happen years after you know him, it happens practicaly when you just meet him, and you did absolutely nothing to lead him on. its badly written, plain and simple.

So...yeah. The devs bothered explaining his bisexuality (which they really didn't have to) but somehow it was still sloppy too you despite Anders never expressing anything in the female Warden other than casual and very light flirting (that was easily missed). 

How is he "expanded"? You never knew his sexuality to begin with other than him sleeping with women. (And that was only lightly suggested as well). 

If you don't want Kaidan to be bisexual just say it and be honest. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 avril 2011 - 11:16 .

[Russalka]

Is it going to be an argument about how common other sexualities are? Please don't start.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@MACharlie1 Source please?

Because I HIGHLY doubt that. Most folks I come across are straight.

[Inquisitor Recon]

spacehamsterZH wrote...
Well... Dragon Age is also a rather high-profile franchise, and somehow it isn't an issue there. I think a lot of the anger stems from that and the fact that there's evidence that same sex romance material was produced for ME1, but never made it into the final game. It's just an odd choice on the part of Bioware and leaves a lot of room for theorizing on why it was done.

I don't really have a horse in this race and like you, I think a lot of people put way too much importance on the romance options in these games. But it's kind of funny how you can absolutely always count on every thread on this topic to explode to eleventy bajillion pages in a matter of a few hours. Never fails.

I don't keep track of sales but I don't think it is quite up there on the level of ME, at least in the eyes of EA. The supposed evidence in ME1 is all of the dialogue for Shepard being recorded by both voice actors but this could have easily been done for ease of production purposes rather than having somebody pick out the lines that didn't apply right there.

Indeed these topics have a habit of doing this, people including myself are stubborn. A good show by whomever the troll poster was that started this.

[Merci357]

ReconTeam wrote...

Like the fact you seem to suffer from an undeserved sense of entitlement? I.E. "Liara and Kelly mean Bioware owes us."

You do realise that every stance on this matter is a sense of entitlement? The final arbiter is, as always, the development team, it's entirely up to them how to use their limited resources for their optional content.

The fact that the Ashley/Fenshep romance was fully voiced and recorded (it's in the PC game files, at least), but not included in the release version should hint at the fact the ME design team handles things somewhat different to the DA design team.

Then again the Kelly "light" romance hints that they are still somewhat open minded about this matter, despite Casey's denial that the Femshep/Liara romance is a lesbian one.

If I had to design ME3 content, I'd rather cater to open minded and modern people, but, thank god, it's not my decision to make.

[MACharlie1]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@MACharlie1 Source please?

Because I HIGHLY doubt that. Most folks I come across are straight.

I couldn't find a specific study (I'll be honest - I'm basing it off answers that others have asked and my own education) but sexuality isn't black/white. It's on a wide spectrum and most people fall in between the extremes. You have some men who might be straight and date girls but under the right circumstances, will become attracted to another man. 

[Vormaerin]

ReconTeam wrote...
 The romances are a minor feature entirely and I'm sure not everybody gets exactly what they want in this regard. What makes you guys so exceptional that Bioware owes you gay LIs? Plus it is controversy for one of EA's flagship franchises that they probably want to avoid.

Romances are NOT a minor feature of the game.   They are, in fact, a major portion of the dialogue.  The devs have commented to that effect.   That was their rationale for the DA2 solution:  it is so labor intensive to make a romance, that making them so self limiting is just not cost effective.

Mass Effect has poured enormous dialogue and art resources into these romances.  Haven't you noticed that characters just cut you out of conversation quite quickly if you aren't a romance option for you?    A major portion of the named characters are LIs, which is a pure fanservice vehicle, and not one of them cater to gay men?   And the gay female ones, though they exist, are treated as somewhat second class?

Seriously, what's the argument for putting so much resources into a fanservice element and not address the entire fanbase?

[AngelicMachinery]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@MACharlie1 Source please?

Because I HIGHLY doubt that. Most folks I come across are straight.

I really want to know how you know that mostpeople that you know are straight... ya know? 

Do you ask them outright?  If so the answers might not be truthful. Is it through evidence? Just because someone is engaged in a relationship with one gender doesn't mean they won't consider the other.  Are you just assuming because no one has told you they were bi/gay?  I tend to not even tell people I date that I enjoythe company of both sexes, it can get messy.

Also where are you from?  What do you consider a night out?  Where do you meet your friends?  

All of these could explain why S/S is outside the scope of your reality.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@MACharlie1

No offense, but I wouldn't say that then.

Most folks I know stick to their sexuality.