912 réponses à ce sujet

[Eromenos]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Erom: You keep droning on in your own mind. you're still just pouring out the same drivel as previously. Consider this my last response to you as there isn't even a point to adress you. I might as well adress a loudspeaker from a record that was stuck.

Oh. I take it you still cannot dare supply your interpretations of "real homophobia" and "reverse-racism?" I mean, you wanted to use them. Those were things which you kept alluding to that were being exploited against your poor dignity, as a straight person arguing for the containment of queerness, right?

Wow, I'm so surprised that you were never going to back up even one of your claims.

Modifié par Eromenos, 24 avril 2011 - 05:44 .

[Vormaerin]

Eromenos wrote...

Hendel Mitra is only vaguely suggested as being interested in men by a female character's single throw-away line. In short, he's even more of a sad cop-out than Kelly and the asari characters are.

I don't think Kelly is a sad cop out.  I think she actually makes more sense and behaves more realistically than any of the other LIs.  Maybe that's just because she panders to my middle aged hetero male mindset     She's the LI for my actual saves, because she's the only one of the lot who doesn't strike me as emo, crazy, or stalkerish.   I'm trying to save all organic life in the universe.  I don't need teh crazee in personal department.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Vormaerin wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I agree on the smaller number of romances, representing all the orientations, that are well-developed for those particular orientations, being the best of all possible worlds.

There's really no "win win" solution.   Bioware writers prefer to write bisexual options for gay romances because its far more cost effective.   Its a relatively expensive resource commitment to do a romance (cut scenes, voice acting, etc).   Leastwise, the devs have said so in the past.    Writing all straight characters still means you have 50% of your LI content unavailable to a particular player before you even get to the ability to only choose one of them.  When you add in a limited appeal character, like a gay male only option, you are getting into pretty low utilization rates.    Devs don't like putting that much resources into something that returns such a small value on the telemetry.

But making Joe swing both ways is only 10% more work than having him be straight OR gay.  And utilzation rates go way up.   That's the thought process.

That's why I'm suggesting a "default" orientation for characters, with the option to then open the romance up to everyone without modding, just by hitting a toggle in the options, or doing something specific in game. That's been the general gist of all my posts, anyway... when you start writing the romance, write it as a romance for a specific orientation (and include at least one romance for every gender preference). Then open it up via a player-controlled toggle. There are a bunch of ways to do that, and I can't imagine it would be that difficult, given the simplicity of modding it on the PC version. I can think of a dozen ways to create an in-game mechanic for this, as well.

Like ok, let's say you don't like my "More options mode" toggle. How about this then - you get an in-game item, called the "memento." You can hand this to any character, and it will open up their romance option. So if you're a manshep who wants to romance Jacob you give him the "memento" and it sets his flag to "romanceable," same as it would if you used a mod, only now the dialogue has VO and has been edited slightly for gender.

I'm just looking for a way to make all the romances do double duty without triggering Harem Syndrome, where everyone on the ship wants in your pants all the time. Again, let me clarify - I would much rather have Garrus, Jack and Tali all interested in me than my current selection... but having six people on the ship all falling for me would make me feel like a generic dude in a mid-90s anime.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 24 avril 2011 - 05:46 .

[Siansonea]

SalsaDMA wrote...

*le snippage*


I'm sorry, but you clearly are only reading your own words.

Please tell me exactly where they are 'catering to homophobic straigths' in ME when there is Liara, Kelly and Hendel Mitra as already established characters in the lore, as well as every single Asari in the lore being technically 'Bi' as well.

As for the further usage of degatory wordings about people you disagree with, I can only shake my head at you and roll my eyes. The only challenged in this regard is your bility to read, it seems.

Oh, I can read just fine pal. You're saying "Hey, BioWare gave you people Liara and Kelly and Hendel Mitra! Isn't that enough for you?"

In a word, no.

First of all, don't make me laugh. Liara and Kelly aren't there as some sort of olive branch to satisfy same-sex romance advocates. Or some high-minded attempt at social awareness and inclusion. You know it, and I know it. The chief guiding principle of ME2 was clearly "will this give a 13-year-old boy a boner?". And to claim that Hendel Mitra, a character in the novels, is some big proclamation of BioWare's social awareness, is equally disingenuous. You know as well as I do that girl-on-girl action is hardly treated with the same sort of abhorrence by 13-year-old boys as two dudes kissing. So get off it. Clearly you believe your examples are perfectly adequate implementation of same-sex content in the games, and to that I say "you've got to be kidding/high."

Modifié par Siansonea II, 24 avril 2011 - 05:45 .

[Ashathor]

I don't care if bioware has homosexual relationships in games. I never do them since I'm straight but I don't mind them putting them in for those who do like them. And also if you declined Zevryn's flirting you lose a good bit of approval with him but it seems most people forgot about that. Also I don't mind gays but it's when they treat everyone who doesn't want a happy-gay-game-24/7 as a homophobic is just very immature and is quite sad.
 I respect minorities who don't wear their sexual preference/race on their sleeves in the sense that if you say ANYTHING that would hint you don't agree with a certain aspect of it your a rascist/biggot is getting very old very quickly. As I said I don't mind having gay romances but it's when the game's romance options are ALL unrealisiticly bi-sexual (I'm not counting DLC or Aveline since she cannot be romanced) and I disagree with this and am called a "biggot, homophobe, hater" that I have a problem with. If you really wanted to support your cause and gain approval for it you don't force other people to conform to your whims and push for an "all gay society", but instead respect other peoples beliefs, be peaceful about it, and try and find a way to incorporate your ideas/beliefs into society/games/whatever else in a way that is acceptable to both parties without resorting to bashing the "straight-gamer" as being "homophobic" or the "straight-gamer" bashing gays for just stating their opinion.

*NOTE* I used gay as a generic term since it's shorter than writing "lesbian" or "homosexual" all the time.

*EDIT* On a more ME related note I would like it if it was plain to see if an option would be a "romantic advancement" option and a "romantic decline" option similar to how DA2 did it. What ever happend to having gay only, straight only, or bi-sexual romance options? Can't we have what DA:O did and have a mix? I had no problem with that, Though I do like having more options than just 2 people especially when it was like "go with the good chick or go with the bad one."

Modifié par Ashathor, 24 avril 2011 - 05:51 .

[Centauri2002]

Vormaerin wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Hendel Mitra is only vaguely suggested as being interested in men by a female character's single throw-away line. In short, he's even more of a sad cop-out than Kelly and the asari characters are.

I don't think Kelly is a sad cop out.  I think she actually makes more sense and behaves more realistically than any of the other LIs.  Maybe that's just because she panders to my middle aged hetero male mindset     She's the LI for my actual saves, because she's the only one of the lot who doesn't strike me as emo, crazy, or stalkerish.   I'm trying to save all organic life in the universe.  I don't need teh crazee in personal department.

Funny that, she strikes me as less realistic.  Her love-all attitude struck me as a little false somehow and, when I watched the dance scene footage, I just found it a little... creepy. I guess it just doesn't appeal to me though. 

[Ryzaki]

centauri2002 wrote...

Funny that, she strikes me as less realistic.  Her love-all attitude struck me as a little false somehow and, when I watched the dance scene footage, I just found it a little... creepy. I guess it just doesn't appeal to me though. 

She struck me as fake too. No one should be that chipper and "free love" working for Cerberus. 

And yeah creepy dance was creepy. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 avril 2011 - 05:48 .

[Vormaerin]

SalsaDMA wrote...

I can certainly see the economic side of it, but from a theoretic point of view I think it's a pity that economy guides creative possibilities, instead of creativity being the guiding line in how they write the content.

David Gaider says that he prefers to do new things every time he writes a new romance, but that it still has to make sense in terms of resources.   Something like that.  Its been a while since I read the quote.  The fact is, there's a lot of creative ideas out there for any given game, so they have to prioritize.   Twenty dev hours on making Mitra a crewmember?  Or two hours making Kaidan swing both ways and 18 hours of additional quest development?    That's the reality that they are faced with.

And the romance-indifferent just say  "how about dumping all 9 LIs into 200 more hours of dev time on quests!  

[Maugrim]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Vormaerin wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...


Please tell me exactly where they are 'catering to homophobic straigths' in ME when there is Liara, Kelly and Hendel Mitra as already established characters in the lore, as well as every single Asari in the lore being technically 'Bi' as well.

Hendel Mitra exists only in a book, not in the game.  I had to look him up in the wiki to know who you are talking about.   He hardly counts as being an option for gay males.    And Liara and Kelly are also not exactly options for gay males.

Hendel is still part of canon, and I don't recall there being any fuss about his sexuality either. It was merely: "This is how he rolls" and that was it and people moved on.

For the lore to be catering to homophobics, homosexuality would be depicted as being something that was repressed or 'unwanted'. If anything, the lore mentions it at the exact same level as hetereosexuality: it doesn't make a fuss about it. Now excuse me for being blunt, but I thought that was actually how people wanted it? That their sexuality wasn't something to be 'fussed about', but just something that were?

In this regard I felt the writer of ME (Yes, it's the same writer that wrote the books that wrote ME1 and part of ME2) was being liberal about the whole issue. And here we have people acusing him for catering to homphobes because he doesn't sterreotype homosexuals as people that force their sexuality into other peoples faces... What gives...

Friend lets be honest not many people read the book though I am one of them  But Hendel is also a classic case of the sexless gay man,   They even saddled him with a little girl to watch and shipped him off with a bunch of aliens to make it that much less likely that he will get some.  Ok that's not really why they did it but it certainly one of many unfortunate coincidences.

You talked about Kelly and Liara before.  Well according to the developers and Casey Hudson the first...well it's not a full LI.  I like the Kelly but hey isn't it interesting that the openly bisexsual girl gets all the lovely comments about engaging is deviant sex acts like beastiality and called a ****?  A twofer at it's finest, sexism and biphobia is something that many gays engage in along with their straight friends and one way the proves we aren't all so different! 

And with Liara we have the devs tripping over basic facts and themselves to go "It's not gay!" "She's not female!"  despite their own lore and previous words contradicting them.  And if it's not gay for Femshep then it's at the very least queer for maleshep.  I suppose it's something akin to the 'It's not gay if it's an elf theory.'  Yes what they've said is questionable and stupid.  That kind of just proves our whole point that there is something about even an obvious s/s relationship (Liara/Femshep) being acknowledged as such.

Your right no one of these and the many other things makes the writers homophobic.  But you also seem to be assuming that homophobia is something that is active, occurs conciously and is meant to be hurtful.   None of these things are true.  It's pretty much just unexamined majority privelage, the kind that David Gaider spoke of, rearing it's ugly head.  Personally I chalk it up to a lack of diversity on the ME writing team as compared to the DA team.  This also seems to have affected the basic quality of the work.  The only reason ME is even in the running against the DA series for the favorite spot is because I am such a Star Trek/Wars geek and I love science fiction.  Even got a Trek tattoo...  anyways yes personal biases aside the writing on DA is far superior as a whole to the ME team.

Full fledged s/s options that aren't  sexless, token minorities or unfotunate implications personified, is it so much to ask for?

And for as long as it took me to write this I'm sure the debate has passed on by now....oh well I tried!

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 24 avril 2011 - 06:03 .

[Vormaerin]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I'm just looking for a way to make all the romances do double duty without triggering Harem Syndrome, where everyone on the ship wants in your pants all the time.

*laughs*  Yeah.  Just keep in mind that what's acceptable in a fan-mod as far as quality control is less than what is cricket for Bioware.   A lot of things a fan can do with some corner cutting would be a lot more work for a bioware team.

[Vormaerin]

centauri2002 wrote...
Funny that, she strikes me as less realistic.  Her love-all attitude struck me as a little false somehow and, when I watched the dance scene footage, I just found it a little... creepy. I guess it just doesn't appeal to me though. 

Well, I know some people like that, though they are less "bubbly".    The dance is kind of creepy, admittedly.  But then so are a lot of the other "sex" cutscenes.   The "rest on the bed" thing with Kelly is fine with me.   Maybe I'm just old

[Eromenos]

Targy90 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Erom: No, you're just droning on with the same stuff time and time again without even understanding that you aren't debating: you're raving. Read my points. Understand them instead of just using them as a trigger to wanting to hit the post button again.

All you're doing is continually saying: You have had a certain experience, therefore everyone that disagrees with you must be homophobes.

Actually, you're the one who's been continually raving about vague, generalized depictions of queer people supposedly crying victim over nothing. You feel that our issues will mean your supposed victimhood gets no attention.

I'm still wondering as to what exactly constitutes "real homophobia" to you? To me it includes the "smallest" of things like exclusion and marginalization. Intentional or unintentional, they are both the same. And we get that in ME. But it seems like someone has to die first, the way Matthew Shepard or Gwen Araujo did, before you can register "true victims." If even then?

I'm also still waiting for you to supply even a specific instance of being called a "racist" by a non-white person over something you felt was overblown at their end. You complained about it so much, yet you can't dredge up an example? At least try to make up something that happened "between your friends." So much easier though, isn't it, for you to just paint race-relations in a way that makes you look the martyr. You're such a good person. You're "not racist." You're "not homophobic." If we would all just adopt a "positive attitude" the world be so good. So good!

That is neither conductive for debate, nor is it conductive for the general experience of people when trying to discuss with you. In essence, you are worse than that which you claim others to be by your statements alone.

Actually. come to think of it, you keep stating things as if you think everyone that disagrees with you as being 'out to get you', purely because they disagree with you. There's a word for that, it's called 'paranoid'.

This is called a person with unearned privileges like you labeling someone like me as "crazy" in a tiresome attempt to discredit my challenges against the house of cards that you hide behind. And for what? To guard the "purity and integrity" of some pixels?

Please, do keep rambling. Keep playing that minority-card, someone is bound to care.
Good luck.

Please, do keep being lazy and dismissive. I like it more when opponents can no longer find words to address my points. Then they default onto "crazy person" to try and isolate or intimidate people like me.

I think he does need a better advocate than you, though. Together you're presenting two sound-bytes rather than just his one, but does not mean either of you has ever learned to move beyond, "You're nobody." I'm sure usually that gets you where you want by pinning someone else. Try again.

BioWare cares so much about those sad and deprived straight male needs. You barely need to remind them. Good for you!

Modifié par Eromenos, 24 avril 2011 - 06:00 .

[Siansonea]

Ashathor wrote...

I don't care if bioware has homosexual relationships in games. I never do them since I'm straight but I don't mind them putting them in for those who do like them. And also if you declined Zevryn's flirting you lose a good bit of approval with him but it seems most people forgot about that. Also I don't mind gays but it's when they treat everyone who doesn't want a happy-gay-game-24/7 as a homophobic is just very immature and is quite sad.
 I respect minorities who don't wear their sexual preference/race on their sleeves in the sense that if you say ANYTHING that would hint you don't agree with a certain aspect of it your a rascist/biggot is getting very old very quickly. As I said I don't mind having gay romances but it's when the game's romance options are ALL unrealisiticly bi-sexual (I'm not counting DLC or Aveline since she cannot be romanced) and I disagree with this and am called a "biggot, homophobe, hater" that I have a problem with. If you really wanted to support your cause and gain approval for it you don't force other people to conform to your whims and push for an "all gay society", but instead respect other peoples beliefs, be peaceful about it, and try and find a way to incorporate your ideas/beliefs into society/games/whatever else in a way that is acceptable to both parties without resorting to bashing the "straight-gamer" as being "homophobic" or the "straight-gamer" bashing gays for just stating their opinion.

*NOTE* I used gay as a generic term since it's shorter than writing "lesbian" or "homosexual" all the time.

*EDIT* On a more ME related note I would like it if it was plain to see if an option would be a "romantic advancement" option and a "romantic decline" option similar to how DA2 did it. What ever happend to having gay only, straight only, or bi-sexual romance options? Can't we have what DA:O did and have a mix? I had no problem with that, Though I do like having more options than just 2 people especially when it was like "go with the good chick or go with the bad one."

Guess what, buddy? I'm straight too. Not everyone who believes in fairness is gay, so you might want to file that one away for later.

Basically what I'm getting out of this paragraph is this "We are the majority. We are getting what we want. You can ask for what you want, but don't expect us to give it to you. If we do give it to you, be grateful. If we don't, keep it to yourself."

So, no, I'm not going to be nice. If you're going to seriously say that adding options for other people takes something away from your gaming experience, my advice to you is to find some way to cope. Because if the only thing that matters is what the majority wants, then this is what ME3 becomes:

[Centauri2002]

Vormaerin wrote...

Well, I know some people like that, though they are less "bubbly".    The dance is kind of creepy, admittedly.  But then so are a lot of the other "sex" cutscenes.   The "rest on the bed" thing with Kelly is fine with me.   Maybe I'm just old

Perhaps I'm just cynical. 

I didn't like the sex scenes in ME2. Again, I had to watch those on youtube since I didn't pursue any of the ME2 LIs. I thought the ME1 sex scene was handled a lot more tastefully and it actually felt like a love scene more than simply sex. I prefer that even though the three LIs basically shared the same sex scene. 

I think they were going for more individuality in the second game but I felt they lost something along the way. Of course, it helped that I was actually into the romance when I was playing ME1. 

I think that's something important to remember when same sex romances are included. It's not about the sex, it's about the romance. 

[Ryzaki]

@Siansonea II: ...I hate you. 

MY EYES.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 avril 2011 - 06:02 .

[Vormaerin]

Ashathor wrote...

 (I'm not counting DLC or Aveline since she cannot be romanced)

What ever happend to having gay only, straight only, or bi-sexual romance options? Can't we have what DA:O did and have a mix? "

You don't get to discount the characters that disprove your point.     And Aveline can be romanced, you just lose in the end to that doofus.   Ignoring them is the same as the adamant "there's no gay in ME" people saying Liara doesn't count because she's an alien and Kelly's just a minor figure, so who cares".     Which was, in fact, argued some 15 or 20 pages back.

Anyway,   what gay only options are you talking about in DAO?   Has there ever been a gay only LI in a Bioware game?   (I haven't played the star wars games, so maybe there?).

[Maugrim]

Vormaerin wrote...

Anyway,   what gay only options are you talking about in DAO?   Has there ever been a gay only LI in a Bioware game?   (I haven't played the star wars games, so maybe there?).

Juhani from KOTOR was supposed to a a s/s female only LI but Lucasarts DID NOT WANT!  So they dummied out most of the romance.  That's the only one I know of and it didn't happen.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 24 avril 2011 - 06:07 .

[Centauri2002]

Vormaerin wrote...

Ashathor wrote...

 (I'm not counting DLC or Aveline since she cannot be romanced)

What ever happend to having gay only, straight only, or bi-sexual romance options? Can't we have what DA:O did and have a mix? "

You don't get to discount the characters that disprove your point.     And Aveline can be romanced, you just lose in the end to that doofus.   Ignoring them is the same as the adamant "there's no gay in ME" people saying Liara doesn't count because she's an alien and Kelly's just a minor figure, so who cares".     Which was, in fact, argued some 15 or 20 pages back.

Anyway,   what gay only options are you talking about in DAO?   Has there ever been a gay only LI in a Bioware game?   (I haven't played the star wars games, so maybe there?).

There was Juhani in KotOR but she wasn't romanceable. She did express interest in female Revan though.

ETA: Makenzie ninjad that from me. 

Modifié par centauri2002, 24 avril 2011 - 06:08 .

[Siansonea]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Siansonea II: ...I hate you. 

MY EYES.

Someone has to tell the cautionary tale...

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Vormaerin wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I'm just looking for a way to make all the romances do double duty without triggering Harem Syndrome, where everyone on the ship wants in your pants all the time.

*laughs*  Yeah.  Just keep in mind that what's acceptable in a fan-mod as far as quality control is less than what is cricket for Bioware.   A lot of things a fan can do with some corner cutting would be a lot more work for a bioware team.

True. But I've also worked in game development (as always: must specify - Not for Bioware!) and, based on the stuff I've seen in their save files and the kind of toolsets that are associated with their games... I don't think it would be too impossible. There may be some background variables I don't know about, though, and we know less about the ME development toolset than any of the others, so it could be I'm basing my educated guesses on the wrong education.

I've actually worked on projects where some quests, dialogues, and even classes were limited by gender. One of the systems I used made this bloody easy to do, while the second one made it nearly impossible. In the first system it would have taken me, working by myself, a day or so to redo 5-10 quests or dialogues so they would vary based on gender (writing and implementation only, no VO.) It would take 1 QA person a day to test it. It could be that the Bioware system is much harder to manipulate, though, and they need to do VO and animations. That said... femshep shares manshep's animations for a lot of things, so it might be possible to cheat quite a bit here.

I'm not saying we should expect Bioware to implement things this way, and there could be a very reasonable mechanical reason that it's much harder to do in their system. It's just a plausible option that might not be too hard to do.

[SalsaDMA]

Maken: I didn't find Hendel sad at all, I guess that's just a difference of perception between us. The impression I got from the book was just that this was his sexuality and no fuss needed to be made about it.

The book was really somber about it, imo, telling the reader that this is who he is, and then moving on without forcing a stereotype of needing his sexuality to be his defining character.

People were either aware of it and didn't make a fuss about it, or came to know and didn't make a fuss about it. If anything, the attitude of the people in the book towards him implies that the whole sexuality issue is more of a 'non-issue' in the ME universe than anything else, and thus doesn't need to be forced in other peoples faces all the time.

[Targy90]

Eromenos wrote...

Targy90 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Erom: No, you're just droning on with the same stuff time and time again without even understanding that you aren't debating: you're raving. Read my points. Understand them instead of just using them as a trigger to wanting to hit the post button again.

All you're doing is continually saying: You have had a certain experience, therefore everyone that disagrees with you must be homophobes.

Actually, you're the one who's been continually raving about vague, generalized depictions of queer people supposedly crying victim over nothing. You feel that our issues will mean your supposed victimhood gets no attention.

I'm still wondering as to what exactly constitutes "real homophobia" to you? To me it includes the "smallest" of things like exclusion and marginalization. Intentional or unintentional, they are both the same. And we get that in ME. But it seems like someone has to die first, the way Matthew Shepard or Gwen Araujo did, before you can register "true victims." If even then?

I'm also still waiting for you to supply even a specific instance of being called a "racist" by a non-white person over something you felt was overblown at their end. You complained about it so much, yet you can't dredge up an example? At least try to make up something that happened "between your friends." So much easier though, isn't it, for you to just paint race-relations in a way that makes you look the martyr. You're such a good person. You're "not racist." You're "not homophobic." If we would all just adopt a "positive attitude" the world be so good. So good!

That is neither conductive for debate, nor is it conductive for the general experience of people when trying to discuss with you. In essence, you are worse than that which you claim others to be by your statements alone.

Actually. come to think of it, you keep stating things as if you think everyone that disagrees with you as being 'out to get you', purely because they disagree with you. There's a word for that, it's called 'paranoid'.

This is called a person with unearned privileges like you labeling someone like me as "crazy" in a tiresome attempt to discredit my challenges against the house of cards that you hide behind. And for what? To guard the "purity and integrity" of some pixels?

Please, do keep rambling. Keep playing that minority-card, someone is bound to care.
Good luck.

Please, do keep being lazy and dismissive. I like it more when opponents can no longer find words to address my points. Then they default onto "crazy person" to try and isolate or intimidate people like me.

I think he does need a better advocate than you, though. Together you're presenting two sound-bytes rather than just his one, but does not mean either of you has ever learned to move beyond, "You're nobody." I'm sure usually that gets you where you want by pinning someone else. Try again.

BioWare cares so much about those sad and deprived straight male needs. You barely need to remind them. Good for you!

So this happens to you often? Could be a pattern.
People do not want to argue with you because it boils down to the same thing everytime.

[Vormaerin]

centauri2002 wrote...

I think that's something important to remember when same sex romances are included. It's not about the sex, it's about the romance. 

I think the only romance I've actually really liked was Jaheira's back in Baldur's Gate II   (the whole game had a disastrous time line problem, so I just pretended it wasn't like three days after her husband's gory murder).   

[Maugrim]

Hell at this point I'd be happy if they just didn't get gender specific in the romance dialogues and made sure to record male and female shepard for the complete romance and dummied out the s/s stuff. Let the mods put it back in. Why yes I am a PC player

[Ryzaki]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Hell at this point I'd be happy if they just didn't get gender specific in the romance dialogues and made sure to record male and female shepard for the complete romance and dummied out the s/s stuff. Let the mods put it back in. Why yes I am a PC player

Not fair to the consolities.

But really at this point I'd take anything.