912 réponses à ce sujet

[Centauri2002]

Darth Death wrote...

I won't go too deep since my purpose here isn't to debate with others, but after playing DA2 I came to the conclusion that the romance system was oddly done & somewhat disturbing. I just want things to be simple, not overcomplicated or controversial. From what I read, my beliefs are in the minority.  

We're talking about a single same sex romance option here, not making all the characters romanceable.

[Darth Death]

centauri2002 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I won't go too deep since my purpose here isn't to debate with others, but after playing DA2 I came to the conclusion that the romance system was oddly done & somewhat disturbing. I just want things to be simple, not overcomplicated or controversial. From what I read, my beliefs are in the minority.  

We're talking about a single same sex romance option here, not making all the characters romanceable.

Trust me, I'm aware what's being discussed... I just don't agree with it. That's all. 

[Centauri2002]

Darth Death wrote...

Trust me, I'm aware what's being discussed... I just don't agree with it. That's all. 

When you referenced DA2, I assumed you were talking about the Hawke-sexual system. Would you mind expanding on what you mean then? If you simply don't like the idea of a male/male romance, then you just don't select the dialogue that would initiate it with that one character. It need not effect you at all. 

Modifié par centauri2002, 30 avril 2011 - 06:44 .

[The Tookah]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Sexuality is a spectrum, not a toggle.

I know this is very delayed, but I have been saying this for years and agree wholeheartedly. A toggle in the game to make it fit my fantasy would be fine with me however.

AngelicMachinery wrote...
As is, in Mass Effect you also get "punished" for not having your way with someone. There is less dialogue available to characters unless you romance them, and hell, if your character is the wrong gender dialogue just entirely stops. I'd rather get +15 rivalary points in DA2 than the sudden lack of character interaction.

Personally, I would like more than one s/s option and so all-bi works for me. And yes, the guys need the same option for s/s. Believe it or not, some women think m/m action is as hot as some guys think f/f action is hot. In the end, This Is A Game. The fact that a majority of players play straight Shepards does not alter my game in the least. My femSheps are alway lesbian. They will not turn straight no matter how many straights out there romance Kaiden or Garrus or Thane or Jacob. That said, I would like more than one human female NPC to romance. My poor Shepards were lonely in ME2. And call me shallow for wanting more human choice, but please don't make my only choices Drell or Turian.

I do think the DA2 style of identifying "flirt: as separate from a positive response would help. I would like to be able to carry on a friendly conversation with a male without triggering a romance.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I brought this up before, but the main problem I have with "everyone is bi" isn't getting hit on by a non-preferred gender... it's "harem syndrome," where every conversation is a minefield and I have to hurt or reject people all the time.

I've said this before: every character should have at least one LI of every gender in the default game, but it should also be possible to hit a toggle and just have everyone who is an LI for ANY gender become available. That way I don't have to worry about being ninja romanced by Ashley if I'm a Femshep going for Liara, but I can just hit a button to romance Ashley if I want.

I like that not everyone's attracted to Shepard, but at the same time, the modding scene has CLEARLY shown that people will do what they want, romance-wise. Might as well put in an official toggle you can hit in game.

As for Shepard not being gay so far... well, a Shepard who hasn't had any romance so far might be gay, or he might be asexual, or something else entirely. He's got Schrodinger's sexuality. Until you open the box and see if there's another dude in there, you don't know if he's gay.

(Also, as always, I have to say that we should at least get Nigel Fishnchips for Bi LI in ME3.)

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 30 avril 2011 - 07:29 .

[PlumPaul93]

I don't know if there should be a toggle option but I would say there should be a choose sexuality option in the character creator to avoid confusion and have npc's and romances act accordingly to that. I don't want everyone being bi and I don't want everyone wanting shepard, one of the things DA2 did right was have aveline not be interested in hawke. It adds realism and stuff like that makes games better.

[AngelicMachinery]

yorkj86 wrote...
Additionally, having significant character development tied up in the romances is not fun for people who don't "romance" anyone.

I absolutely agree with this,  character development shouldn't simply be entwined in the romances.

[Ryzaki]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
Additionally, having significant character development tied up in the romances is not fun for people who don't "romance" anyone.

I absolutely agree with this,  character development shouldn't simply be entwined in the romances.

Agreed. That's my major issue with the ME games. Alot of the best character development for the most part is tied up in the romances. That's nonsense. 

[Maugrim]

Ryzaki wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
Additionally, having significant character development tied up in the romances is not fun for people who don't "romance" anyone.

I absolutely agree with this,  character development shouldn't simply be entwined in the romances.

Agreed. That's my major issue with the ME games. Alot of the best character development for the most part is tied up in the romances. That's nonsense. 

It is, but compounding that nonsense by trying to hitch that issue up to the s/s romance one is a magnitude worse (Not that you in particular are trying to Ryz) .  Most romances in the game could be made avaliable for the s/s with a few changes to pronouns.  Bioware could of course choose to spends heaps of zots and make branching paths dependent upon gender choice but let be real they aren't going to.  A few sentences here and there will be all it amounts too.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 30 avril 2011 - 11:01 .

[Lord Atlia]

I'm for keeping established characters sexual identities intact, if they add a new m/m "bro" it is all good. I find it odd that some people rage over Ashley's new look and say it is immersion breaking and than say a characters change in sexual preference would be completely natural. I just find sexual identity, along with culture upbringing, experience, and prejudices to be more defining of character than what type of armor he or she wears.

[MACharlie1]

Lord Atlia wrote...

I'm for keeping established characters sexual identities intact, if they add a new m/m "bro" it is all good. I find it odd that some people rage over Ashley's new look and say it is immersion breaking and than say a characters change in sexual preference would be completely natural. I just find sexual identity, along with culture upbringing, experience, and prejudices to be more defining of character than what type of armor he or she wears.

In what ways exactly have any of the characters sexual orientations been established? If it's not established then there isn't anything to change. 

[Hyper Cutter]

makenzieshepard wrote...
No not really, hiding s/s options because of homophobes isn't a good thing.

It's
not really "hiding" anything, iirc it's more or less set up as "since they
(the PC) isn't into the opposite sex, maybe they're into the same
one". That bit where you have to pass a Charm check to romance Silk Fox is a little creepy for entirely different reasons, though.

centauri2002 wrote...
 Most people for the added same sex romance aren't asking for everyone to be bisexual. They're asking for a single male/male romance option.

Actually, quite a few of them seem to specifically want the Virmire Survivor. Multiple people in this thread have said they'd have no problem with being able to have a same-sex relationship with a newly-introduced character, they just (rightfully) get their hackles up when you insist on trying to alter existing ones.

Olwydd wrote...
Moreover, none of the NPCs are shown to be
canonically straight, either. Previous signs of attraction for one sex
do not necessarily preclude future attraction for another

In most cases, it does.  If a character shows interest in an opposite-sex character but not in a same-sex one in the same situation, that's about as clear as you can get with an NPC.

[alienatedflea]

Olwydd wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I really hope BioWare doesn't take any consideration from what's posted here. Majority of it I feel will ruin ME3 for me.

Other people having options will ruin the game for you?

hm, maybe if those "options" as you like to call it was in the first mass effect then they should be in ME2 and ME3...since there are not, youre sh*t outta luck...

[KawaiiKatie]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
Additionally, having significant character development tied up in the romances is not fun for people who don't "romance" anyone.

I absolutely agree with this,  character development shouldn't simply be entwined in the romances.

My Jack-romancing Shepard emphatically disagrees. Adding an extra dash of character-development for those who choose to engage in the romance-content seems perfectly fair to me. And this goes for both heterosexual and same-sex romances.

[alienatedflea]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Olwydd wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I really hope BioWare doesn't take any consideration from what's posted here. Majority of it I feel will ruin ME3 for me.

Other people having options will ruin the game for you?

From what I read thus far.... YES.

May I ask what you read thus far that will RUIN EVERYTHING?  Or is it just the idea of homosexuality that bothers you?

This is where is falls through...just like a little kid that doesnt get his or her way they start name calling...so you imply we have to be homophobic because we dont want the last installment of this trilogy to have a sudden swerve that wasnt given to us in the first two games...lol wow how desperate is the gay community? thats just immature

[Ryzaki]

So I guess Shepard being interested in aliens other than Asari was a sudden swerve that wasn't given to us in the previous game eh?

[ElitePinecone]

alienatedflea wrote...


This is where is falls through...just like a little kid that doesnt get his or her way they start name calling...so you imply we have to be homophobic because we dont want the last installment of this trilogy to have a sudden swerve that wasnt given to us in the first two games...lol wow how desperate is the gay community? thats just immature 

I take it you're against changing combat styles and weapons, then?

I mean.. Shepard couldn't roll or jump into cover in the first two games. Clearly they shouldn't RUIN EVERYTHING by changing things SO MUCH in the last one?

Or maybe you're against the new planet scanning system? I mean, we had a vehicle in the first game, then orbital scanning in the second, and something else in the third. SO MUCH CHANGE!

Maybe you think siding with the Alliance again in ME3 is a break of character? That it doesn't make sense? That Shepard can't change her/his opinion?

Shepard couldn't romance Tali or Garrus in Mass Effect. For that matter, Shiala and Gianna Parasini showed no attraction to male Shepard.  None. Then... SUDDEN SWERVE IN MASS EFFECT 2!!!

Any of the above you have a problem with? Games change, innovate, and yes, there might be continuity issues. Deal with it. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 01 mai 2011 - 05:51 .

[Markinator_123]

I hope just that homosexuality is very easy to get around. I'm pretty homophobic in real life so as long as I can easily avoid homosexuality the better for me.

[SennenScale]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Did anyone ever want to consider that BW wanted to make a game where the main male character wasn't bi? In both DA's he is, in Jade Empire he is, and in Starwars I think he is (never played that one.) Maybe they just wanted to do one where the main character wasn't bi but let fshep secondary main character be alittle sense they didnt' want to completely alienate their past players who were use to that set up. Yet they're being hammered because they wanted to try something different?

The PC isn't bi merely because he or she have both options available to them. If that logic held true, the PC is both good and evil because you can be either. The PC is a hermaphrodite or intersex because you can choose to be male or female. The PC is both poor and rich, both a caster and a tank. Having multiple options doesn't mean every option applies to your pc.

They're bi/straight/gay if you, the roleplayer, decides they are. If you don't want your PC to be bi or gay, don't choose the option and voila, you're straight as an arrow. All the more so, since you can actually tell the game you are straight as opposed to the game just assuming.

[AlexMBrennan]

That's just semantics. I assume he meant the following (Also note that I don't necessarily agree with that statement)

Did anyone ever want to consider that BW wanted to make a game where the main male character wasn't bi? sexual orientation was fixed

[SennenScale]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

That's just semantics. I assume he meant the following (Also note that I don't necessarily agree with that statement)

Did anyone ever want to consider that BW wanted to make a game where the main male character wasn't bi? sexual orientation was fixed

In a role playing game that gives you the choices of apperance, gender, alignment, background, military history, in some cases partymembers, which romance you choose (if your sexuality if fixed, letting us choose a LI at all is rubbish because your preferences would be fixed, as that is a part of your sexuality)and gives you an open world?

Limiting RP options in a game with multiple romance options seems silly and arbitrary unless the romance was central to the plot (Deus Sex Machina? Rescuing Princess Peach?) in some way.

And Femshep is allowed to be a lesbian, straight girl, or bi. Why the attention to Sheploo's orientation if Femshep is up for grabs?

Modifié par SennenScale, 01 mai 2011 - 12:39 .

[alienatedflea]

ElitePinecone wrote...

I take it you're against changing combat styles and weapons, then?

I mean.. Shepard couldn't roll or jump into cover in the first two games. Clearly they shouldn't RUIN EVERYTHING by changing things SO MUCH in the last one?

Or maybe you're against the new planet scanning system? I mean, we had a vehicle in the first game, then orbital scanning in the second, and something else in the third. SO MUCH CHANGE!

Maybe you think siding with the Alliance again in ME3 is a break of character? That it doesn't make sense? That Shepard can't change her/his opinion?

Shepard couldn't romance Tali or Garrus in Mass Effect. For that matter, Shiala and Gianna Parasini showed no attraction to male Shepard.  None. Then... SUDDEN SWERVE IN MASS EFFECT 2!!!

Any of the above you have a problem with? Games change, innovate, and yes, there might be continuity issues. Deal with it. 

youre comparing apples to oranges...ammo/weapons to romances? really? the point of my last post is that simply because there was oppostion from the other side to not have s.s for males in this Mass Effect storyline, those in the gay community view that as homophobic...its not.  It wasnt in the FINAL product of the first game. and it wasnt in the second game therefore it should make perfect sense that those options should be in the last game?  and even if they added it, I would still bet the gay community wouldnt be happy just like they werent happy with DA:O and even more people werent happy with DA2 bc  "everyone is bi"...So, just because it seems like anything Bioware does will not make anyone happy so (since people here do not think putting in requests for ME isnt selfish then here is my request)  Bioware in all future RPG games should remove romance options altogether...so its not a problem because its not there..would you like that?
PS: those examples that bioware changed were about the game its self...it had nothing to do with your shep personally...so in that case, what was your point again?

[alienatedflea]

SennenScale wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

That's just semantics. I assume he meant the following (Also note that I don't necessarily agree with that statement)

Did anyone ever want to consider that BW wanted to make a game where the main male character wasn't bi? sexual orientation was fixed

In a role playing game that gives you the choices of apperance, gender, alignment, background, military history, in some cases partymembers, which romance you choose (if your sexuality if fixed, letting us choose a LI at all is rubbish because your preferences would be fixed, as that is a part of your sexuality)and gives you an open world?

Limiting RP options in a game with multiple romance options seems silly and arbitrary unless the romance was central to the plot (Deus Sex Machina? Rescuing Princess Peach?) in some way.

And Femshep is allowed to be a lesbian, straight girl, or bi. Why the attention to Sheploo's orientation if Femshep is up for grabs?

Lets go with your "limiting RP options" theory, Since you think sexual orientation is something up to the person not the developer so why couldnt I negiogated with soveriegn? I personally think it would be cool to be on the WINNING side in ME1...oh wait those damn developers limited my opitions. .

so why couldn't I have a threesome with miranda and Ashley? oh wait damn those developers for limiting my options

so why couldn't I just shoot (whoever the human councilier is) in the head and take his place while saving the galaxy? oh wait damn those developers for limiting my options

so why couldn't I meet the rachni new homeworld so I can see how my little buggies are coming along in ME2? oh wait damn those developers for limiting my options

my point is: you can only make a RPG that has just so many options...Bioware admitted that they ran out of time.  Get over yourself please...better luck next ME storyline

[Biotic_Warlock]

Markinator_123 wrote...

I hope just that homosexuality is very easy to get around. I'm pretty homophobic in real life so as long as I can easily avoid homosexuality the better for me.

Your honesty is refreshing.
It is right after all that those who do not want to romance a certain character can easily  not do so if they choose - which in ME1 was a bit akward... since the human romance option always kept coming onto shep, and there was the liara glitch.