912 réponses à ce sujet

[jbblue05]

Ryzaki wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

I didn't refute my own claim.
Aveline was starting  a relationship with Donnic.  She wasn't going to dump him asap for Hawke.
notice how she says but.....    Aveline is interested after finding out Hawke was interested all along.
Everytime you flirted with Aveline she was oblivious to your motive rather male or female.

You just wrote that she said nothing was there. 

 How is she interested if nothing was there? Seriously? I mean....really? 

I already posted my points if you don't agree with it then so be it.
This conversation is getting off-topic

What?  

You really can't admit you're wrong? Whatever. 

I think your in denial

[MajesticJazz]

BigC-VI wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

BigC-VI wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

There was nothing wrong with the bi-sexual romances in DA2. People just need to be more open minded and less homophobic/prejudice.

/thread

You're obviously stupid and/or can't read. This thread is not about a problem with it being in the game, it's about losing points toward the friendship because you're not homesexual and have to turn down the NPC's.

Again, I played as a Female Hawke and didn't romance Isabella but yet I didn't lose points with her....

That's why Ander's is the example of what I hope to avoid in the game. Again, if you re-read, my original post is about not losing points in ME because of how you lost points with Anders in this senerio. You're first response was saying this was anti-gay in gaming, and had nothing put in there about Isabella. Please leave the thread.

Okay, I read your OP but from what I'm reading your argument should be made for romances in general, not just bisexual romances.

I understand your situation with Anders but the same could happen in ME3 if there were ever a "friendship" system. A character not liking you or losing points with a character because you don't romance them is something that can even happen in straight romances, not just bisexual romances.

Example:

I have a Female Shepard (See Avatar) that I really like to RP with and I have based her around the notion that she is a lesbian and is NOT interested in men (She romances Liara BTW). However, I do not want to lose points/loyalty with a male squad member because my Nubia Shepard turned him down.

My point is, you have a point to your concept, but it isn't just a problem with homosexual romances but even heterosexual romances.

[PlumPaul93]

I don't see why the shouldn't have a gay character in ME3. Although I pray it's not of someone we have already met in the series and make a new squadmate be gay if gay romances are in the game (although I doubt they will be). Also hopefully they'd handle it better than the anders debacle if I want a romance with him make me start it not have him hit on me every chance he gets and then whine that I'm not gay...

[Vicious]

Why appeal to the 'everyone is a homosexual/everyone can be romanced by anybody' crowd. Mosey over to the DA2 boards, anti-homosexuals have ripped Bioware a new one and the pro-homosexuals have not lifted a finger or bothered to type to defend Bioware.

Forget 'em, just make a few of each. In Dragon Age. Not ME. MShepard does not like males. Fshepard does not like females. Everybody likes Asari.

Don't appeal to the 'here today gone tomorrow' 'fans'

Modifié par Vicious, 23 avril 2011 - 03:47 .

[BigC-VI]

MajesticJazz wrote...

BigC-VI wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

BigC-VI wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

There was nothing wrong with the bi-sexual romances in DA2. People just need to be more open minded and less homophobic/prejudice.

/thread

You're obviously stupid and/or can't read. This thread is not about a problem with it being in the game, it's about losing points toward the friendship because you're not homesexual and have to turn down the NPC's.

Again, I played as a Female Hawke and didn't romance Isabella but yet I didn't lose points with her....

That's why Ander's is the example of what I hope to avoid in the game. Again, if you re-read, my original post is about not losing points in ME because of how you lost points with Anders in this senerio. You're first response was saying this was anti-gay in gaming, and had nothing put in there about Isabella. Please leave the thread.

Okay, I read your OP but from what I'm reading your argument should be made for romances in general, not just bisexual romances.

I understand your situation with Anders but the same could happen in ME3 if there were ever a "friendship" system. A character not liking you or losing points with a character because you don't romance them is something that can even happen in straight romances, not just bisexual romances.

Example:

I have a Female Shepard (See Avatar) that I really like to RP with and I have based her around the notion that she is a lesbian and is NOT interested in men (She romances Liara BTW). However, I do not want to lose points/loyalty with a male squad member because my Nubia Shepard turned him down.

My point is, you have a point to your concept, but it isn't just a problem with homosexual romances but even heterosexual romances.

Thank you for clarfying.
Your first post did not speak that to me, and I now understand.

[BigC-VI]

I think Kaiden could be bisexual for those who really wanted him that way. But for people like me, who would rather have him as a second hand, right hand man type of way (sorta like Little John to Robin Hood) it would be nice to have a option that helped stray away, or completely took out the homosexual dialogue options so I don't have to turn him down and lose loyalty points (or gain renegade points even). Maybe points associated with romance should be taken out completely so that you won't loose them in you turn down a heterosexual romance. But in ME2, it was easy to make sure which you were going after, imo.

[Elite Midget]

People start finding you attractive because you're nice to them as well attractive? Isn't that like real life in a way?

[BigC-VI]

Elite Midget wrote...

People start finding you attractive because you're nice to them as well attractive? Isn't that like real life in a way?

missed the point. That part is fine, even in a straight players game, but no matter, if you turn them down, you should lose loyaty points or gain renegade points. (this pertains to an if for ME3)

[Elite Midget]

If I found you, per say, attractive and than I made a move on you I would really resent you for a time if you said no. Maybe even avoid contact with you whenever possible.

Just like how most people are in real life. Rejection sucks and few are ever 'okay' with getting rejected by the person of their affections.

[PrinceLionheart]

Abispa wrote...

@ Agamo45 -- There has been "gayness" in ME, only it was an option for FemShep with either Liara or Kelly. And please don't insult my intelligence by pointing out that the Asari are mono-gendered and JUST HAPPEN to look like a race of blue supermodels.

One thing I was happy with ME2 was the bachelor party scene where we discover that the Asari "trick" sapient species into see them as idealized females of their own race, leaving the possibility that they may, by human standards, be unattractive in reality. I always thought it would be nice if Liara somehow lost her fairy-style "glamor," shown to look truly alien, and Shepard was given the option to say that s/he still loved her anyway.

I thought it was pretty clear that each species was looking at the different attributes of the asari, (Face, Hair Fringe.) In Garrus' romance he said the main attraction points for Turians are the waist and Fringe, so I don't think there is any "trick."

[Nixter Shepard]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I thought they handled it rather well in DA2. One of the better things about an otherwise mediocre game.

I agree. It was nice to be able to become friends with characters without them automatically falling in love with my character, forcing me to break our relationship once they ask me to be in a romantic relationship and I don't comply. That was one of my small gripes with Mass Effect 2. I couldn't just befriend a character, once I got to a certain point in our relationship they'd bring up you having a relationship with them, and if you didn't feel the same way they wouldn't talk to you anymore.

[lyssalu]

there won't be gay shepards in mass effect ever, so you don't have to worry about it.

[Xeyska]

lyssalu wrote...

there won't be gay shepards in mass effect ever, so you don't have to worry about it.

This.

[88mphSlayer]

Foolsfolly wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

I hate the DA series, so I don't have a clue what you're talking about. I thought we were discussing the way romances factor in to points systems, dialogue systems, and morality systems. If being friendly counts as "provocation," if turning someone down causes them to lose "favor" with my character, and if there's no way to be friendly to them without it counting as "provocation," yes, I will edit myself the lost points.

Well, you're still looking at it in DA:O terms. The Friendship/Rivalry meter is very different than the Like/Dislike meter in the first game. The companions can either be friends or rivals with Hawke.

What that means is that for Friends Hawke is generally supportive, always there to help and lend a hand, and cares for the character. You can romance a friend and they even get a certain friendship passive for it. The companion's storyline changes so Hawke is supportive of them.

Rivals are characters that Hawke disagrees with. You can romance a rival and get a passive for their rivalry. The companion's rivalry storyline has Hawke caring about the characters but forcing them to see their shortcomings in the hopes to overcome them.

Example. The companion character Merrill is a blood mage obessed with elven past. The friendship storyline has Hawke support Merrill's obession and use of Blood Magic (a forbidden school of magic). The rivalry storyline has Hawke dislike Merrill's blood magic usage and thinks Merrill's obession is unhealthy and self-destructive. When you romance her it's either a "You're special, smart, and no one understands you" with friendship and a "I love you, you're intelligent, but I can't let you destroy yourself."

The Friendship/Rivalry system is a rather decent system. I still prefer the ME way of doing things where there is no meter telling you where you stand with their loyalty and affection....but DA2's meter is superior to DA1's.

And I'm not the biggest fan of DA2.

stuff like this is why i think they need to completely get rid of all meters be them friendly/rivalry or paragon/renegade

people aren't roleplaying they're just metagaming

[TheBlackBaron]

Vicious wrote...

Why appeal to the 'everyone is a homosexual/everyone can be romanced by anybody' crowd. Mosey over to the DA2 boards, anti-homosexuals have ripped Bioware a new one and the pro-homosexuals have not lifted a finger or bothered to type to defend Bioware.

Well, uh, that's because they haven't needed to lift a finger to defend Bioware. Gaider's been handling that himself pretty well. 

The whole "everyone can be romanced by anybody" thing is still kind of annoying, though, especially when in some cases (*cough*Anders*cough*) where it's a pretty jarring instance of Sudden Sexuality or just being a Hawkesexual. I consider it more a sympton of DA2's rushed development than anything - the DA:O romances were all better, in spite of having "only" two straight options and two bisexual options.  

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 23 avril 2011 - 06:05 .

[Seboist]

88mphSlayer wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

I hate the DA series, so I don't have a clue what you're talking about. I thought we were discussing the way romances factor in to points systems, dialogue systems, and morality systems. If being friendly counts as "provocation," if turning someone down causes them to lose "favor" with my character, and if there's no way to be friendly to them without it counting as "provocation," yes, I will edit myself the lost points.

Well, you're still looking at it in DA:O terms. The Friendship/Rivalry meter is very different than the Like/Dislike meter in the first game. The companions can either be friends or rivals with Hawke.

What that means is that for Friends Hawke is generally supportive, always there to help and lend a hand, and cares for the character. You can romance a friend and they even get a certain friendship passive for it. The companion's storyline changes so Hawke is supportive of them.

Rivals are characters that Hawke disagrees with. You can romance a rival and get a passive for their rivalry. The companion's rivalry storyline has Hawke caring about the characters but forcing them to see their shortcomings in the hopes to overcome them.

Example. The companion character Merrill is a blood mage obessed with elven past. The friendship storyline has Hawke support Merrill's obession and use of Blood Magic (a forbidden school of magic). The rivalry storyline has Hawke dislike Merrill's blood magic usage and thinks Merrill's obession is unhealthy and self-destructive. When you romance her it's either a "You're special, smart, and no one understands you" with friendship and a "I love you, you're intelligent, but I can't let you destroy yourself."

The Friendship/Rivalry system is a rather decent system. I still prefer the ME way of doing things where there is no meter telling you where you stand with their loyalty and affection....but DA2's meter is superior to DA1's.

And I'm not the biggest fan of DA2.

stuff like this is why i think they need to completely get rid of all meters be them friendly/rivalry or paragon/renegade

people aren't roleplaying they're just metagaming

This 100%.

[Vormaerin]

Elite Midget wrote...

If I found you, per say, attractive and than I made a move on you I would really resent you for a time if you said no. Maybe even avoid contact with you whenever possible.

Just like how most people are in real life. Rejection sucks and few are ever 'okay' with getting rejected by the person of their affections.

I'd like to point out that you obviously haven't bothered to learn how DA2's wheel works.  It is  NOT like the Paragon/Renegade wheel of ME.   Both Friend and Rival are close, good relationships.   Friend is about the buddy who you agree with and have the same ideas.  Rival is the friend who you disagree with about stuff.

If you think that Merrill is off her rocker for dealing with demons and trying to fix ancient relics, you end up in a rivalry with her.  But she still trusts you more than anyone else.  She'll romance you, she asks you to come with her on the final mission because she trusts you to fix it if she's wrong, and so on.

You aren't "losing* points by rejecting the advance of the overly emotional, spirit possessed fruitcake.  You are just getting points towards  "guy whose views I don't accept".    Its also not a lot of minus points. Unlike Paragon/Renegade, you can easily make up lost friendship points ot attain the important benchmark scores.

Seriously, are you expecting *Anders* of all people to act in a rational manner about personal matters?   *laughs hysterically*

[Mercannis]

Or they could just make some LI bisexual some gay and others straight, you know like it is here in the real world.
Its just laziness , they want to make everyone happy and how they handled it in DA2 was the cheapest and easiest solution, resulting in the companions behaving like sex aids and having the depth of a kiddies paddling pool.

[Vormaerin]

Mercannis wrote...


Or they could just make some LI bisexual some gay and others straight, you know like it is here in the real world.
Its just laziness ,

Which is what they did in every other game, to masses of whinging and fan frothing.  The only difference here is which section of the fanbase is overreacting.   Besides which, Sebastian and Aveline are both straight romances (though Aveline ends up giving you the "just friends" speech eventually).

resulting in the companions behaving like sex aids and having the depth of a kiddies paddling pool.

There's hardly any romances in bioware's history that don't act like this.   What ME2 romance was really deep and meaningful?   Maybe Tali and that's about it.   Kelly's at least mature about it, unlike the rest.

[Moiaussi]

Mercannis wrote...


Or they could just make some LI bisexual some gay and others straight, you know like it is here in the real world.
Its just laziness , they want to make everyone happy and how they handled it in DA2 was the cheapest and easiest solution, resulting in the companions behaving like sex aids and having the depth of a kiddies paddling pool.

keep in mind that separate playthroughs are separate parallel universes. Any given character's orientation in any given playthrough has no bearing on other playthroughs. So if there is a homosexual relationship in a particular playthrough, it doesn't mean that character is bi, just that they were homosexual in that particular universe. After all, Shepard can have completely different appearance, background, gender, etc in different playthroughs, so why should npcs be considered as constants?

There is a bit of an issue if all characters of both genders are hitting on Shep, but there is an issue if all characters even of the opposite gender are hitting on Shep. At least some of them should wait for Shep to make the first move....

[Vormaerin]

Moiaussi wrote...


There is a bit of an issue if all characters of both genders are hitting on Shep, but there is an issue if all characters even of the opposite gender are hitting on Shep. At least some of them should wait for Shep to make the first move....

Yeah, at least in DA2, your companions would still talk to you if you weren't in a romance with them.   Unlike in ME2.

[Wittand25]

While I think that it would have been better to have a neutral option in the one dialog in question Anders flirting with Hawke is hardly out of the blue if you pay attention to what is said before, you can even have a broken heart option before that infamous talk.

As far as ME3 is concerned, I really hope that there will be at least an option for both m/m and f/f romances. For their implementation I suggested a way that would allow the player to set Shepard´s sexuality in game and have the NPCs react to it (see here). E.g. a NPC open for m/m romance would not hit on a straight male Shepard, female NPCs not on a Shepard who is gay so that you automatically only get the friendship but not the romance.

[Powgow]

The only thing I disliked about the way homosexuality was treated is that EVERY male character could potentially be one. Thats like, a bit weird. Not every boy or girl that you meet diggs you. Now my custom Hawke was an animal, but he wasn't that attractive

Modifié par Powgow, 23 avril 2011 - 09:21 .

[Vormaerin]

Well, "every" male character except for Varric and Carver and Sebastian. But 50% and 100% are pretty close to equivalent....

[lyssalu]

Vormaerin wrote...

Mercannis wrote...


Or they could just make some LI bisexual some gay and others straight, you know like it is here in the real world.
Its just laziness ,

Which is what they did in every other game, to masses of whinging and fan frothing.  The only difference here is which section of the fanbase is overreacting.   Besides which, Sebastian and Aveline are both straight romances (though Aveline ends up giving you the "just friends" speech eventually).

resulting in the companions behaving like sex aids and having the depth of a kiddies paddling pool.

There's hardly any romances in bioware's history that don't act like this.   What ME2 romance was really deep and meaningful?   Maybe Tali and that's about it.   Kelly's at least mature about it, unlike the rest.

thane, anyone?

no?