912 réponses à ce sujet

[Isaidlunch]

Vicious wrote...

Why appeal to the 'everyone is a homosexual/everyone can be romanced by anybody' crowd. Mosey over to the DA2 boards, anti-homosexuals have ripped Bioware a new one and the pro-homosexuals have not lifted a finger or bothered to type to defend Bioware.

Forget 'em, just make a few of each. In Dragon Age. Not ME. MShepard does not like males. Fshepard does not like females. Everybody likes Asari.

Don't appeal to the 'here today gone tomorrow' 'fans'

What are you going on about? The anti-homosexuality crowd are almost always called out for being the bigots they are in the DA forums and are a very small minority. Every time David Gaider speaks up on the subject he's praised by half the forum and even at times had articles on news sites in support of him. To say that the anti-homosexuals have "ripped him a new one" is laughable.

[Vormaerin]

lyssalu wrote...

thane, anyone?

no?

Wasn't a fan, but its less "ooh, sexy time" than the others, certainly.

[jeweledleah]

Moiaussi wrote...

Mercannis wrote...


Or they could just make some LI bisexual some gay and others straight, you know like it is here in the real world.
Its just laziness , they want to make everyone happy and how they handled it in DA2 was the cheapest and easiest solution, resulting in the companions behaving like sex aids and having the depth of a kiddies paddling pool.

keep in mind that separate playthroughs are separate parallel universes. Any given character's orientation in any given playthrough has no bearing on other playthroughs. So if there is a homosexual relationship in a particular playthrough, it doesn't mean that character is bi, just that they were homosexual in that particular universe. After all, Shepard can have completely different appearance, background, gender, etc in different playthroughs, so why should npcs be considered as constants?

There is a bit of an issue if all characters of both genders are hitting on Shep, but there is an issue if all characters even of the opposite gender are hitting on Shep. At least some of them should wait for Shep to make the first move....

umm why should npc's be constants?  because unlike player character they are written the same no matter the playthrough?    this whole alternate universe thing is a bit of a copout and even Gaider admited that no, anders is never just straight or just gay, he's always bi, regardless of your hawke's gender.  you cannot just cover your eyes, say lalalalala and forget that something happened a certain way in a different playthrough, becasue while your Shepard might change, the characters around shepards are still the same. 

when a bisexual male enters a monogamous relationship with a woman, they do not become straight.  they don't suddenly stop finding men atractive, they just happen to be commited to a woman at this time.  its kinda the same with the characters other then player's.  they still have the same core values, back stories, reactions to certain stimuli, regardless of the shepard characterization in player's mind, they respond the same way to conversation options regardless of the playthroughs. 

DA2 incidentaly wouldn't have been that, what's the word I'm looking for..."controversial", if not for waving away character deaths, certain events from Origins and Awakenings, as well as completely rewriting a character.  I'm sorry but Ander's previously unseen bisexuality is the least of his characterisation and consistency issues IMO - and yah, his being unhappy about you turning him down when all you did was be nice (both male or female Hawke, to be fair) - was not particularely well handled either.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 23 avril 2011 - 10:12 .

[Vormaerin]

Anders and Isabella would be bi no matter what decision they made with the other romances. They were both pretty obviously bi in Origins/Awakenings.

Aveline is straight and so is Sebastian. So the only real issue is with Fenris and Merrill.

And they are elves..so they don't count anyway

[jeweledleah]

Isabela is pansexual in Origins, yes. But people are not complaining about Isabela being bisexual in DA2, are they? Anders shows no sign of interest in males in Awakenings, but he flirts with everything female, not to mention his "settle down with a nice girl someday" line. he doesn't say a nice person, he specifically says girl. yes yes, it doesn't exclude him being attracted to men, I've heard it said multiple times, but the truth remains that until DA2 - he has never shown any hint of it. but to me his newly discovered (but apparently long existing) bisexuality is the least of his issues.

Merril and Fenris are not causing these issues because they weren't in any way changed from preexisting portrayal. plus they don't hit on you, and then get angry at you when you decide that you only like them as friends early in a game.

[AlexMBrennan]

Anders and Isabella would be bi no matter what decision they made with the other romances.

True except for the minor detail that they're not - Anders is interested in men if and only if Hawke is a guy. I suppose that that's a case of Schrödinger's sexuality.

Re OP: You get Anders rivalry points left and right unless you role-play a deranged lunatic so get over 15 Rivalry you get for turning him down. (cf "Morrigan disapproves")
Edit: Maybe the problem is that people have been conditioned to always choose the Paragon response, or to always choose the Renegade response?

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 23 avril 2011 - 10:58 .

[Babli]

MajesticJazz wrote...

There was nothing wrong with the bi-sexual romances in DA2. People just need to be more open minded and less homophobic/prejudice.

/thread

This.

And if I may add, romances were pretty much the only things that were done in DA2. It was practicaly a dating simulator with some tedious fights in between.

But make sex scenes like in ME 1 this time please... fade to black is lame.

Modifié par Babli, 23 avril 2011 - 10:34 .

[Ryzaki]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Anders and Isabella would be bi no matter what decision they made with the other romances.

True except for the minor detail that they're not - Anders is interested in men if and only if Hawke is a guy. I suppose that that's a case of Schrödinger's sexuality.

Re OP: You get Anders rivalry points left and right unless you role-play a deranged lunatic so get over 15 Rivalry you get for turning him down. (cf "Morrigan disapproves")
Edit: Maybe the problem is that people have been conditioned to always choose the Paragon response, or to always choose the Renegade response?

Anders is laughably easy to friend/rival. 15 points is nothing. I can't understand why people complain about it. For someone like Isabela I'd get the complaining (because it's so damn hard to wiggle between her lines) but Anders? Please. All you have to do is be pro mages  and he's your BFF for life. (and if you're pro-templar you and he aren't gonna be friends regardless). 

And yeah I think you're on to something. I hear about way too many people ignoring the rivalry path because it's "bad." 

[GodWood]

I hated the "Everyone is bi lol" thing DA2 had.
I don't see what's wrong with simply having some characters straight, some characters gay and some characters bi.

[Maugrim]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Anders and Isabella would be bi no matter what decision they made with the other romances.

True except for the minor detail that they're not - Anders is interested in men if and only if Hawke is a guy. I suppose that that's a case of Schrödinger's sexuality.

Would people stop spreading this misinformation?  Gaider has already  denied it.  It's "open to your interpetation" but no matter what their actions don't change.  Karl always had a relationship with Anders, irregardless of the PC's sex.

"My point is that their actions don't change, yet some people are deciding that their inference is enough to suggest the characters alter their preferences at the player's whim.

Even if they did, I'm not sure that would be a crime. Regardless, it's not the case."

Emphasis mine obviously.

Linky to proofs.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 23 avril 2011 - 03:12 .

[Gabey5]

it was handled fine

[AerisBru]

GodWood wrote...

I hated the "Everyone is bi lol" thing DA2 had.
I don't see what's wrong with simply having some characters straight, some characters gay and some characters bi.

THIS. 

Not to mention the infuriating retcon (at least for me and it seems for some around here, too, Anders didn't look bi in Awakening by his words and actions - well, I noticed some people talking about cats, earrings, hair...please...that's just a stereotype - a totally FULL of prejudice stereotype, by the way, since it implies that gay people "looks gay", as they were all the same and straight people were different from each other). 

I have nothing against gay romances, I just don't see with sympathy this solution used in DA2 and I REALLY hope not to see anything like this in ME3. 

[_000Darkstar]

Or the options could be:

- Grow up
- Grow up
- Grow up

We get hit on by people we don't want to all the time in real life. Grow up and deal with it.

[Burnham1]

I don't understand the complaint about gaining rivalry points when you turn someone down. If someone feels a strong enough connection with you that they work up the courage to tell you how they feel, they are going to be hurt if you turn them down. It doesn't matter how you reject them, rejection is rejection and you don't get a positive reaction to it. It makes perfect sense that you would gain rivalry points for turning down someones advancement toward you. Friendship points come from making decisions they approve of, rivalry points come from those they don't. I would think it is pretty obvious Anders doesn't approve of being rejected.

[Ryzaki]

AerisBru wrote...

GodWood wrote...

I hated the "Everyone is bi lol" thing DA2 had.
I don't see what's wrong with simply having some characters straight, some characters gay and some characters bi.

THIS. 

Not to mention the infuriating retcon (at least for me and it seems for some around here, too, Anders didn't look bi in Awakening by his words and actions - well, I noticed some people talking about cats, earrings, hair...please...that's just a stereotype - a totally FULL of prejudice stereotype, by the way, since it implies that gay people "looks gay", as they were all the same and straight people were different from each other). 

I have nothing against gay romances, I just don't see with sympathy this solution used in DA2 and I REALLY hope not to see anything like this in ME3. 

...I'll just let the quote speak for itself. 

[Vormaerin]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Anders and Isabella would be bi no matter what decision they made with the other romances.

True except for the minor detail that they're not - Anders is interested in men if and only if Hawke is a guy. I suppose that that's a case of Schrödinger's sexuality.

Err, how do you know this?   If I'm bi and I don't talk to my girlfriend about the guys I find hawt, have I stopped being bi?  Most bisexuals have a favored gender, so there's nothing incompatible with the awakening statement about settling down with a girl, especially since he makes that comment to a very straight Oghren IIRC.

Dunno about you, but a lot of people (including me) found a number of his comments to Nathaniel to be quite flirty.  Also, he and/or Wynne make comments about the Tower being quite...adventurous... in regards to sexuality.    No one in Awakenings is a romance option, so we can't say "OMG, he wouldn't romance my guy warden!".   He wouldn't romance your girl warden either.  

[AerisBru]

(...)
...I'll just let the quote speak for itself. 

I just hope that you're not saying this is a contradiction. As I clearly stated, by his WORDS, there's nothing that implies that he is gay. He only talks about interest in women. All the rest is pure speculation. As is the speculation about the fact that he has a "gay appearance", obviously an absurd.

I'm talking about the difference in judging what someone SAYS and what someone LOOKS LIKE. 

I hope that this wasn't too difficult to understand. 

[PlumPaul93]

Babli wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

There was nothing wrong with the bi-sexual romances in DA2. People just need to be more open minded and less homophobic/prejudice.

/thread

This.

And if I may add, romances were pretty much the only things that were done in DA2. It was practicaly a dating simulator with some tedious fights in between.

But make sex scenes like in ME 1 this time please... fade to black is lame.

So it's wrong to want straight only romances? Which probably at least 80% of the people in the world are? They should have straight, gay, and bi romances in DA but making them all bi is really lame. And onto Mass Effect I doubt they will have it in 3 (I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't new romance options at all) but I could see them having it in another Mass Effect game.

[Ryzaki]

AerisBru wrote...

(...)
...I'll just let the quote speak for itself. 

I just hope that you're not saying this is a contradiction. As I clearly stated, by his WORDS, there's nothing that implies that he is gay. He only talks about interest in women. All the rest is pure speculation. As is the speculation about the fact that he has a "gay appearance", obviously an absurd.

I'm talking about the difference in judging what someone SAYS and what someone LOOKS LIKE. 

I hope that this wasn't too difficult to understand. 

And again you're relying on sterotypes to prove your point. The fact that you don't see this is amusing. People don't run around talking about all the men/women they've slept with just because they're bisexual. Some bisexuals will tend to talk about one gender. Shocking I know. Maybe just maybe Anders bisexuality wasn't relevant in Awakening (guess what? It wasn't). so there's no reason to bring it up. (Just like with FemHawke!) 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 avril 2011 - 04:46 .

[Vormaerin]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

So it's wrong to want straight only romances? Which probably at least 80% of the people in the world are? They should have straight, gay, and bi romances in DA but making them all bi is really lame. .

Would you stop making stuff up?   For one thing, Sebastian is straight only, so you have a straight only romance option.  For another, you are getting all messed up about metagame stuff.   Isabella is the only character who makes it clear that they are bi during the romance no matter what.   Anders is open about it with men, but not with women.   The others don't discuss it at all.   We aren't talking about your only romance choices being Zevrin types.

A guy who romances Merril or a woman who romances Fenris or Sebastian is never going to get smacked with a "My lover plays for both teams" moment.   Only Anders and Isabella flirt with same sex characters if you don't start the flirting.

If you played the game through once as a straight male and you didn't go hitting on everyone, you'd have exactly *one* conversation with Anders hitting on you and a bunch of Isabella's omnisexuality.    Otherwise, you'd have no reason to get all angsty about the creeping plague of gayness infecting your merry band of nutcases.

[AerisBru]

(...)
And again you're relying on sterotypes to prove your point. The fact that you don't see this is amusing. People don't run around talking about all the men/women they've slept with just because they're bisexual. Some bisexuals will tend to talk about one gender. Shocking I know. Maybe just maybe Anders bisexuality wasn't relevant in Awakening (guess what? It wasn't). so there's no reason to bring it up. 

My words are amusing? YOU are amusing. 


"Some bisexuals will tend to talk about one gender". Tend to? This isn't about tendencies. He didn't talk ONCE about his interest in men. But he talked a lot about his interest in women. Those are the facts. All the rest are YOUR wishful thinking. 

[Ryzaki]

AerisBru wrote...

(...)
And again you're relying on sterotypes to prove your point. The fact that you don't see this is amusing. People don't run around talking about all the men/women they've slept with just because they're bisexual. Some bisexuals will tend to talk about one gender. Shocking I know. Maybe just maybe Anders bisexuality wasn't relevant in Awakening (guess what? It wasn't). so there's no reason to bring it up. 

My words are amusing? YOU are amusing. 


"Some bisexuals will tend to talk about one gender". Tend to? This isn't about tendencies. He didn't talk ONCE about his interest in men. But he talked a lot about his interest in women. Those are the facts. All the rest are YOUR wishful thinking. 

 

Right. Just note you're not above sterotyping either. 

[Vormaerin]

Ryzaki wrote...
\\ Some bisexuals will tend to talk about one gender. Shocking I know. Maybe just maybe Anders bisexuality wasn't relevant in Awakening (guess what? It wasn't). so there's no reason to bring it up. (Just like with FemHawke!) 

WHAT?!!?!?  You mean that sometimes homosexuals or bisexuals don't spill their entire lovelife to recent acquaintances from a land that is somewhat less than entirely tolerant of homosexuality?   NO WAY.

[PlumPaul93]

Vormaerin wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

So it's wrong to want straight only romances? Which probably at least 80% of the people in the world are? They should have straight, gay, and bi romances in DA but making them all bi is really lame. .

Would you stop making stuff up?   For one thing, Sebastian is straight only, so you have a straight only romance option.  For another, you are getting all messed up about metagame stuff.   Isabella is the only character who makes it clear that they are bi during the romance no matter what.   Anders is open about it with men, but not with women.   The others don't discuss it at all.   We aren't talking about your only romance choices being Zevrin types.

A guy who romances Merril or a woman who romances Fenris or Sebastian is never going to get smacked with a "My lover plays for both teams" moment.   Only Anders and Isabella flirt with same sex characters if you don't start the flirting.

If you played the game through once as a straight male and you didn't go hitting on everyone, you'd have exactly *one* conversation with Anders hitting on you and a bunch of Isabella's omnisexuality.    Otherwise, you'd have no reason to get all angsty about the creeping plague of gayness infecting your merry band of nutcases.

LOL I really don't care dude. For one I was just making a point for the other side and two I don't think I ever got "all angsty about the creeping plague of gayness infecting my merry band of nutcases". Don't give me the BS that there not really bi if they can be romanced by both genders they are bi. Like always whenever anyone says something you don't like you have to be overdramatic to try to make your point look better (ps I'm not saying that like I know you I'm saying that as a general thing).

[Maugrim]

Psst...hey you! Yes you! We know that when your crying "Boo hoo Anders hit on me and oh I want some LI's to be straight, bi and gay" that you are lying about wanting bi/gay LI's.

Because the very day they have a fullly realized LI is gay that you end up wanting to romance with your straight PC... You're going to run crying and howling on the forums in a way that the entire gay and gay friendly community could never hope to match.

And I will laugh. Oh by all the gods will I revel in the delicious tears. I'm going to troll so hard that the mods will have to ban me and it will be worth it. Oh go ahead and deny it now, play your innocence cards, I know we are years away from this at best. Denial ain't just and river in Egypt and trust me I know what a closet looks like and if you were any deeper in it you'd be in Narnia dancing with the fairies.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 23 avril 2011 - 04:55 .