76 réponses à ce sujet

[ThomasBlaine]

Ok, Hawke's sister and farther are both apostates, and he may be one himself. Between Orsino and Meredith, she is obviously crazy, and you have 2 sympathic apostate companions.

Roleplaying-wise, can anybody give me a plausible reason for Hawke to side with Meredith?

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 24 avril 2011 - 09:06 .

[randName]

Obviously Orsino is also crazy, as he considers attacking those that help him an act of defiance against his aggressors.

Modifié par randName, 23 avril 2011 - 12:18 .

[ThomasBlaine]

How do you figure?

[xkg]

Maybe because evry single mage you meet is damn blood mage turning into abominiation.
On 2nd playthrough if you know how it ends it is obvious (at least for me) that no matter what - templars are only option. But no spoilers so i wont say more.

[AkiKishi]

There is no good reason that fits as far as I can see. Bethany has a very good relationship with Hawke. Either Bethany or Hawke, or both have been hiding from the Circle in Lothering.
It's quite a 180 to suddenly go from that, to supporting the organisation that forced you to do that in the first place.

Mages are total fruitloops in DA2 for the most part. But the only real justification for joining the Templars is "all of them are the same".

DA2 has plotholes you can drive a bus through, it's best not to look too closely.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 23 avril 2011 - 12:28 .

[fchopin]

Just play the game and you will understand.

[Zkyire]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Ok, either Hawke's sister and farther is both apostates, and he may be one himself. Between Orsino and Meredith, she is obviously crazy, and you have 2 sympathic apostate companions.

Roleplaying-wise, can anybody give me a plausible reason to side with Meredith? -I mean, aside fom Anders going ape**** by the endgame.

God it's hard to give actual detailed reasons given the "No Spoilers allowed" thing.

But basically:

The sheer amount of mages turning to blood magic.

The fact that Orsino is also batcrap insane.

[randName]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Ok, either Hawke's sister and farther is both apostates, and he may be one himself. Between Orsino and Meredith, she is obviously crazy, and you have 2 sympathic apostate companions.

Roleplaying-wise, can anybody give me a plausible reason to side with Meredith? -I mean, aside fom Anders going ape**** by the endgame.

God it's hard to give actual detailed reasons given the "No Spoilers allowed" thing.

But basically:

The sheer amount of mages turning to blood magic.

The fact that Orsino is also batcrap insane.

Honestly the only thing I felt after I played through the game was "why couldn't I either just kill them all right there, or just have walked away".

At least before the endgame I wanted to support the mages, but it's rare to see a piece of fictional work change ones view on an entire faction, one that you have rooted for through most of the work and through the whole prequel, as quickly as the end of DA2 managed.

It's also hard for me to conjur up any memories of any game or book ending as badly in a purly negative sense as DA post the 80s era (you had a lot of crap games back then).

Modifié par randName, 23 avril 2011 - 12:50 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Every mage who breaks away from the circle turns to blood magic. The Tevinitir Imprimiumumumumim who has mages ruling them are all blood mages who support slavery and seek more power at anyone's cost. Templars are always needed. Even if you side with the Templars - it doesn't mean you support Meredith who you can defy during many dialogues and even claim at several points that her way is not the right way but still support Templars existing to watch mages.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 23 avril 2011 - 01:30 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

And quite honestly, you don't have two sympathetic mages. As you know as soon as you meet them - they're both possessed by demons and are pretty much disconnected from Hawke and the rest of the party more than any other companions - only caring about their own goals.

[mykeme]

Obviously, the writers were hoping that a certain event involving Hawke's family in Act II would make the player weary towards mages. However, all the characters in the event were so poorly written, and the quest itself so badly scripted, that one can't help but forget the whole thing before the act is through. Fail writing is fail.

[Superarash]

When I chosed to side with the Templars, I discovered that Orsino was a very BAD elf at the very beginning . I have always thought that the first enchanter was a good guy all the time, except when he panicked and turned into a.... you'll find out at the end.

[Dormiglione]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

Ok, either Hawke's sister and farther is both apostates, and he may be one himself. Between Orsino and Meredith, she is obviously crazy, and you have 2 sympathic apostate companions.

Roleplaying-wise, can anybody give me a plausible reason to side with Meredith? -I mean, aside fom Anders going ape**** by the endgame.

Just for the fun to see all the content?

[LorDC]

Roleplaying-wise? Maybe your characters hates mages. Maybe he believes in what chantry teaches. Maybe he is just ruthless power-seeker who sees templars as his way to the top. Maybe he is lawful(in D&D sense) type who don't give a damn about mages problems and just wants all this rioting to stop. Or he thinks that mages suffering is a price for saving world from hordes of demons.
Plenty of reasoning out there.
Not to mention that Mage ending clearly tells you: "Saves mages? Good guy. Enjoy this warm and fuzzy feeling while world is torn apart by demons undeads and blood mages".

[ThomasBlaine]

Elton John is dead wrote...

And quite honestly, you don't have two sympathetic mages. As you know as soon as you meet them - they're both possessed by demons and are pretty much disconnected from Hawke and the rest of the party more than any other companions - only caring about their own goals.

So... what I hear you saying is that you don't think Merril is cute?

[ThomasBlaine]

LorDC wrote...

Roleplaying-wise? Maybe your characters hates mages. Maybe he believes in what chantry teaches. Maybe he is just ruthless power-seeker who sees templars as his way to the top. Maybe he is lawful(in D&D sense) type who don't give a damn about mages problems and just wants all this rioting to stop. Or he thinks that mages suffering is a price for saving world from hordes of demons.
Plenty of reasoning out there.
Not to mention that Mage ending clearly tells you: "Saves mages? Good guy. Enjoy this warm and fuzzy feeling while world is torn apart by demons undeads and blood mages".

Yeah... again with the sister thing. Fact is that Hawke's background heavily leans towards sympathy for mages, and I don't see how it is psychologically plausible to side with the templars, knowing nothing beforehand of the first-enchanter or the bloodmages, when you've spent your entire life running and hiding from them for the sake of half of your family.
And I have no idea how the hell Carver pulls it off.

[AkiKishi]

LorDC wrote...

Roleplaying-wise? Maybe your characters hates mages. Maybe he believes in what chantry teaches. Maybe he is just ruthless power-seeker who sees templars as his way to the top. Maybe he is lawful(in D&D sense) type who don't give a damn about mages problems and just wants all this rioting to stop. Or he thinks that mages suffering is a price for saving world from hordes of demons.
Plenty of reasoning out there.
Not to mention that Mage ending clearly tells you: "Saves mages? Good guy. Enjoy this warm and fuzzy feeling while world is torn apart by demons undeads and blood mages".

That does not fit with what is known about Hawke.

[highcastle]

Orsino being shady or even crazy shouldn't be a valid reason because Hawke wouldn't know that yet. It's only revealed after he makes his decision between mages and templars.

I agree with he OP that it's very hard to side with the templars, especially when Meredith holds all mages accountable for the actions of an apostate outside its control. It's hard to rationalize such a failure in logic.

Probably the best you can do is say Hawke is trying to keep order. The templars are the law, and thus he's going along with them. But I still haven't been able to do it myself. Despite the prevalence of blood mages, not every man or woman in the Circle turns to forbidden magic or demons. And with Hawke's personal connection to magic coupled with Meredith's crazy reasons to exercise the Right, it's hard to summon up the proper motivation for a turn to the templars. At least for me.

[Elhanan]

To help insure that there is another Magr friendly soul on the force besides the couple you meet on the way?

[ThomasBlaine]

highcastle wrote...

Orsino being shady or even crazy shouldn't be a valid reason because Hawke wouldn't know that yet. It's only revealed after he makes his decision between mages and templars.

I agree with he OP that it's very hard to side with the templars, especially when Meredith holds all mages accountable for the actions of an apostate outside its control. It's hard to rationalize such a failure in logic.

Probably the best you can do is say Hawke is trying to keep order. The templars are the law, and thus he's going along with them. But I still haven't been able to do it myself. Despite the prevalence of blood mages, not every man or woman in the Circle turns to forbidden magic or demons. And with Hawke's personal connection to magic coupled with Meredith's crazy reasons to exercise the Right, it's hard to summon up the proper motivation for a turn to the templars. At least for me.

My entire point, and formulated much better than I could.

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 23 avril 2011 - 03:43 .

[prettyflywhiteguy]

I spent my first playthrough having to antagonise Fenris, who I liked, and championing Anders, who I hated, because I joined the mages. Then I regretted it when they all turned out to be completely bonkers.

[v_ware]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

How do you figure?

*major spoiler*

[Teredan]

Well you have to pick someone.