132 réponses à ce sujet

[Flamingdropbear]

After reading a lot of the criticism (constructive and not so constructive) for DA2 I noticed that a lot of the hate was due to comparisons to DA:O. What if instead of DA2 it was its own or even a sequel to Jade Empire (actually the more I think of it, the more awesome it becomes).

Modifié par Flamingdropbear, 23 avril 2011 - 03:37 .

[Gavinthelocust]

Pretty much nailed it, I swear nobody here judges it by it's own merits.
Also Jade Empire 2 with a better combat system and dialog than Jade Empire would bring tears of happiness to my face.

Modifié par Gavinthelocust, 23 avril 2011 - 03:08 .

[Nerdage]

Doesn't make the criticism any less valid though, DA2 can't really escape DAO, it's the sequel to Origins before it's its own game.

[Flamingdropbear]

nerdage wrote...

Doesn't make the criticism any less valid though.

True, but think more of the people demanding an apology, money back, blood. The critisims would stand if it was "City of Pride" as opposed to DA2, but doubt there would be as much hate for "City of Pride"

[Braindeer]

Agreed. It's the constant comparisons with DA:O that get DA2 down. If it had been released as a game in its own right, I think it would have had a much better reception.

[AkiKishi]

DA2 on it's own merits is pretty bad. As the sequel to DA it's downright awful.

[nopho]

Flamingdropbear wrote...

After reading a lot of the criticism (constructive and not so constructive) for DA2 I noticed that a lot of it were due to comparisons to DA:O. What if instead of DA2 it was its own or even a sequel to Jade Empire (actually
the more I think of it, the more awesome it becomes).

hard question.
some, as DA2 was meant to be the successor of the first part, people bought it for that name, i have no doubt that sales numbers would be lower if it would have been called "the champion of kirkwall: origins"

but not all. i'd suggest you to read the constructive-critizism thread again in that case, there were loads of stuff wich had nothing to do with the name on the package and what people expect from it but rather with what people expect from any game. even more given all the fuss they made in their advertising about.

[nightscrawl]

Flamingdropbear wrote...

What if instead of DA2 it was its own...

I don't know that I would have bought it in the first place. This is not a statement about quality of the game or its direction or anything, but DAO exposed me to the Dragon Age universe, which I really enjoy. I wanted more content from the universe, so I bought the sequel. I might still have bought it. I really loved Neverwinter Nights, bought all of its expansions. So I had a really high opinion of Bioware from that.

I enjoy DA2 quite a bit, I really don't understand some of the forum vitriol that I read =/.

[Killer3000ad]

I wouldn't hate DA2 as much if it was never marketed as a DIRECT SEQUEL TO DA:O. As it stands it was marketed as a sequel and as a sequel it utterly fails. Mind you even as a stand-alone it's still rather mediocre.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 23 avril 2011 - 04:51 .

[wildannie]

I don't think there's any doubt that that's the case. But that is how it should be.
we shouldn't expect nor do we deserve and apology (it's an okay game). They just kind of let themselves down with this one and I'm just sorry it happened.

[Logikal1]

BobSmith101 wrote...

DA2 on it's own merits is pretty bad. As the sequel to DA it's downright awful.

Agreed. 

Also it was advertised as a sequal to Dragon Age Origins which is a major reason why I purchased it.

If It were advertised as a standalone Call of Dragon Age or Dragon Effect then I wouldn't have purchased it knowing I wasn't getting a game that remotely resembled my beloved Dragon Age: Origins. 


BioFail

[JaegerBane]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

Pretty much nailed it, I swear nobody here judges it by it's own merits.
Also Jade Empire 2 with a better combat system and dialog than Jade Empire would bring tears of happiness to my face.

Yes and no. DA2 definitely didn't help itself with its title as it was inevitable that it would draw comparisons to a game that did a stack of stuff infinitely better. Nonetheless there was plenty of stuff in DA2 that would have looked crap regardless of what games it was compared to - the endlessly repeated dungeons, the generic setting and the non-varying storyline just wasn't good by any game's yardstick.

[Persephone]

Logikal1 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

DA2 on it's own merits is pretty bad. As the sequel to DA it's downright awful.

Agreed. 

Also it was advertised as a sequal to Dragon Age Origins which is a major reason why I purchased it.

If It were advertised as a standalone Call of Dragon Age or Dragon Effect then I wouldn't have purchased it knowing I wasn't getting a game that remotely resembled my beloved Dragon Age: Origins. 


BioFail

Two things: The demo. Free. All people had to do was play the demo to see what they would get. And the information released on the game was pretty darn accurate, so it was clear from the get-go that this would not be a direct sequel. (Hard that would be, given that it's set elsewhere, based on another lead etc.) I've seen little (If any) marketing of DAII suggesting it would be a direct sequel to DAO btw.

But to answer the OP's question: I'd say around 75%. (My guess!!) Sequels always find themselves in a tougher position and cases like ME2 surpassing its predecessor's ratings aren't the norm. (Though one may call ME2 just as "streamlined" and "dumbed down"....) Naming it DAII wasn't the best move, IMO. They should have stuck with DA: Exodus. Fits in neatly with the names of the other games as well.

I cannot see it as a direct sequel, so my judgment of the game isn't based on that. ME2, that's a direct sequel. Gabriel Knight II: The Beast Within, that's a direct sequel. Hawke being revealed pretty much confirmed that DAII would not be a direct sequel. It's set in Thedas and some DAO story elements are taken into account.

DAII is currently my favorite Bioware game, flaws and all. On it's own, however. I'd love it just as much even without DAO.

[The Angry One]

If the game were actually marketed and a spinoff or intermission it would've gotten a better reception, I'm sure.
The flaws would still be there, but it'd be mitigated by "what do you expect? It's a spinoff. If you want a meaty RPG wait for Dragon Age 2."

[Barefoot Warrior]

There is a lot of comparing DA2 to Origins, for many reasons. I also think the word 'sequel' throws some folks. I to have compared to Origins, but not because of the story or wanting my Wardens back, etc. I knew that DA2 was a different storyline and what I was expecting was a game that matched or exceeded the 'quality' of Origins. I hope I said that in way everyone understands. Thankfully, DA2 was not 'DA Origins 2'. I can only imagine what would have happened in these forums had that been the case. DA2 is, by definition, a sequel in the DA franchise. After reading many posts in here I have the feeling that many expected this to be an 'Origins 2' and I wonder if that is causing a lot of the bad feelings for DA2. I don't hate DA2, and will go as far as to call it a good game, but not a quality game in my view. I'm sure many of you will even disagree on this, but there you have it. 

Modifié par Barefoot Warrior, 23 avril 2011 - 05:23 .

[Mecher3k]

Persephone, we get. You are as mindless as the apple cultists when it comes to DA2.

And DA2 would still be a bad game even if it was the first dragon age game. The reuse of the same environment for supposedly 20 different places is inexcusable. The same with a dead city that the entire game is supposed to be about. Kirkwall looks dead and never changes except for a certain area of the city.

And I could go on and on.

[HyperLimited]

Technically, DA2 is not a sequel to DA:O. It is the next installment in the Dragon Age franchise.

A game called Dragon Age: Origins 2 would be a sequel to DA:O.

[Uzaik]

The game is a pile of dung, regardless of what DAO was. If I wasn't comparing repeated environments, story and other flaws against DAO, I would compare those against a different game.

The demo barely gave us enough material to judge the game. You couldn't interact with the inventory, we barely had a glimpse on the storyline and we certainly did not have enough material to generalize other characteristics. Even that whole enemy teleportation crap wasn't as evident, since most enemies on the demo were not actually magically spawning on top of your group.

[rayvioletta]

it'd be just as disappointing if it was a sequel to JE, perhaps even more so considering the long wait
DA2 is a fairly decent game, but easily the worst from BioWare

the biggest flaws in DA2 are largely down to how rushed it was. while they may not have seemed quite as bad without the expectations raided by Origins, a flaw is still a flaw and the game would still have far too many

Persephone wrote...

The demo. Free. All people had to do
was play the demo to see what they would get.

I don't remember the demo making it clear that the game would have no consequences to choices, have next to no replayability or have no real depth to it. all we could tell from the demo was that the combat was faster paced, the graphics were ok and get a vague idea of what some of the characters were like. missing things like conversation log, a decent UI, etc we had to hope weren't indicitive of the final game, and since BioWare came out and said it was from an ealier build there was some hope. sadly crushed by the released game

Modifié par rayvioletta, 23 avril 2011 - 06:53 .

[Alex Kershaw]

Worst metacritic score out of any Bioware RPG ever (by a considerably margin) /thread

[JaegerBane]

Persephone wrote...
Two things: The demo. Free. All people had to do was play the demo to see what they would get.

IIRC, the demo didn't point out that we'd have a 60 hours of quests set in the same 3 dungeons. It didn't point out the invariable storyline. It didn't indicate the dafter things in the script.

In fact, all it did indicate was how the combat and the graphics would work. And believe it or not, there are some of us who couldn't stand the recycled levels or nonsensical storyline but otherwise enjoyed the combat and the graphics.

In other words, the demo painted quite a rosy picture of the game. Don't bother trying to claim that we somehow had advance warning of some of the worst aspects of DA2.

[Persephone]

rayvioletta wrote...

it'd be just as disappointing if it was a sequel to JE, perhaps even more so considering the long wait
DA2 is a fairly decent game, but easily the worst from BioWare

the biggest flaws in DA2 are largely down to how rushed it was. while they may not have seemed quite as bad without the expectations raided by Origins, a flaw is still a flaw and the game would still have far too many

Persephone wrote...

The demo. Free. All people had to do
was play the demo to see what they would get.

I don't remember the demo making it clear that the game would have no consequences to choices, have next to no replayability or have no real depth to it.

Completely subjective, you know?

[Curlain]

The devs choose to call DA2 DA2, to decide it should be the sequel rather then a stand-alone game set in the Dragon Age world. Prior to it's release they marketed it as the sequel to DA:O and by virtue of it being a sequel (just like any sequel in almost any medium) it was able to drawn on the fanbase and the awareness of the first instalment to create instant interest in it with pre-orders and the initial weeks of the game's release.

Since DA2 places itself as DA:O sequel, and uses that to it's benefit it is inevitable and fair that it be judged in comparison to it's predecessor. How it fares in such comparisons is up to the each individual of course

Modifié par Curlain, 23 avril 2011 - 07:31 .