132 réponses à ce sujet

[MassEffect762]

Folks are still holding Bioware to pre-EA standards.

Bioware went from being master to puppet since EA.(imo)

[Rinkusu]

As i said in another post, if bioware had called this an adventure spinoff in Dragon Age Universe, there would not have been so much angry posts. That said is still a subpar game, not worthy of the bioware stamp of quality. It was a rushed experiment, and not a very good one.

[Lumikki]

Rinkusu wrote...

It was a rushed experiment, and not a very good one.

And rushed is bad because something in DA2?

How you know difference between rushed and deliberate design?

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 avril 2011 - 09:26 .

[erynnar]

Lumikki wrote...

Rinkusu wrote...

It was a rushed experiment, and not a very good one.

And rushed is bad because something in DA2?

How you know difference between rushed and deliberate design?

I may not always agree with you Lumikki, but that is an interesting point.  Sad to say, if the furniture  NPCs and not changing the city, the horrible faces of the NPCs who looke like freaks are done on purpose...EEP!  If the things that were off about the game were deliberate design, they should really rethink it.

[Rinkusu]

Well i consider reusage of areas a shortcut on design(to make the deadline), few skills, mobs just popping up instead of a battle scene, not much variation in enemies, not much interaction with companions/npc, enemy ai is dumb, no crafting(and finding ore and ordering something is not crafting).
Might be a deliberate design but if it is, then shame on them (and me for paying it), but it feels like they cut most of this to make whatever deadline they had, so i say rushed.

[rayvioletta]

now that I think about it, comparing DA2 to Origins is much like comparing Elder Scrolls Adventure: Redguard to Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
both DA2 and Redguard take away the usual customisation options and give you a pre-determined character. DA2 gives a bit more lenience in this since you can still change gender and appearance
DA2 and Redguard are both shorter and less complex games in smaller areas
Redguard is only loosely connected storywise to the main body of the Elder Scrolls games and DA2 is only loosely connected to Origins
both DA2 and Redguard are good games in their own right but cannot compete with Origins or Morrowind. the difference is Redguard never pretended to be part of the main TES series and was clearly a spinoff. DA2 tries to pass itself off as a full blown sequel to a game it can't hold a candle to

[Kajan451]

Flamingdropbear wrote...

What if instead of DA2 it was its own or even a sequel to Jade Empire (actually the more I think of it, the more awesome it becomes).

If they called it Wyrm Century: The Battle for Wine, Women and Cookies... i would have enjoyed it for what it was. A rushed and medicore game. I woudn't have bothered with complaining and simply deinstalled the game and left the whole thing alone.

I wouldn't complain more about it as i did about Dragon Saga or Two Worlds 2.

But my standards are higher for Dragon Age 2.

[2Hard2C]

Well, the game is not called Dragon Age: Origins 2, so I didn't expect Origin stories in the game, but it is not a direct sequel. Should be titled something else, in my opinion.

However I have to say, if Bioware could allow for voice acting for all the Origins stories, it'd be a much better experience.

[steelfire_dragon]

it is not the seuqal do oDa:origins, for da2 to have been a sequal to origins it would of been called da:o2.


it should not have been enamed da2 in anycase

[MrDizazta]

Flamingdropbear wrote...

After reading a lot of the criticism (constructive and not so constructive) for DA2 I noticed that a lot of the hate was due to comparisons to DA:O. What if instead of DA2 it was its own or even a sequel to Jade Empire (actually the more I think of it, the more awesome it becomes).

Pretty much nailed it on the head there.  I think I made this point on some other thread but yeah I totally agree.  The major problem I had with Dragon Age 2 was the repeatative dungeons and the cop out ending.  Also taking away switching weapons and range weapons from warriors.

[Dracotamer]

I judge it on it's own merits in addition to it being the predecessor to DA:O. It's called DA2 for a reason and is NOT a stand alone game.

[Alozaps]

I think a lot of the hate towards DA2 is due to the fact that EAware got greedy, tried to appeal to multiple different gaming preferences at once, and created a game that wasn't worthy to be a part of the DA franchise. It wasn't about maintaining the dignity and uniqueness that Origins brought, but rather it was about attracting the largest audience they could, maximizing profits, all while perpetuating the falsehood that "every aspect of DA2 is a step up from its predecessor". I'll never respect this game as part of the DA franchise since Bioware themselves didn't bother preserving the unique precedent set by the first game - a precedent that obviously garnered them huge success.  This, coupled with the short development time, allowed DA2 to slip into the sea of mediocrity and forgettability that many other RPG's are already immersed in, thus gutting the franchise.

Modifié par Alozaps, 24 avril 2011 - 02:37 .

[Foolsfolly]

Flamingdropbear wrote...

After reading a lot of the criticism (constructive and not so constructive) for DA2 I noticed that a lot of the hate was due to comparisons to DA:O. What if instead of DA2 it was its own or even a sequel to Jade Empire (actually the more I think of it, the more awesome it becomes).

Interesting theory, OP. I assume that it has something to do with that, I also assume it has something to do with having the BioWare name attached to it as well.

But I think I'd rate it about the same if it was a stand alone game done by a company I'd never heard of. Well, I might have ranked it higher if it was done by a group of 20somethings as their first game. It would have been quite the impressive start to a career.

But BioWare can do better and should always do better. The two games before it (Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2) felt like the company was growing. It felt like they had arrived. This game feels like a step back.

It all comes down, to me, to the game being rushed. The story's a mess, the gameplay's glitched, and there's no fewer than 3 game breaking glitches in the vanilla game. It took them a month to even patch the thing which says to me that they were unaware of the bugs before people complained about them, which means it was not throughly tested (as if that was ever in question).

It's a mess of a game. Once fully patched it's a lot less of a mess but the story is still unsatisfactory. They wanted to tell a more personal story but they didn't give Hawke anything other than backstory. And the three act stories have no resolution except for the Qunari conflict, which is the best part of the entire game.

It's a mess. But it's not horrible either. 6-7/10 seems to be the correct place to rate this game. It's not horrible, it's not great, and more importantly BioWare can do much better.

[erynnar]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Flamingdropbear wrote...

After reading a lot of the criticism (constructive and not so constructive) for DA2 I noticed that a lot of the hate was due to comparisons to DA:O. What if instead of DA2 it was its own or even a sequel to Jade Empire (actually the more I think of it, the more awesome it becomes).

Interesting theory, OP. I assume that it has something to do with that, I also assume it has something to do with having the BioWare name attached to it as well.

But I think I'd rate it about the same if it was a stand alone game done by a company I'd never heard of. Well, I might have ranked it higher if it was done by a group of 20somethings as their first game. It would have been quite the impressive start to a career.

But BioWare can do better and should always do better. The two games before it (Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2) felt like the company was growing. It felt like they had arrived. This game feels like a step back.

It all comes down, to me, to the game being rushed. The story's a mess, the gameplay's glitched, and there's no fewer than 3 game breaking glitches in the vanilla game. It took them a month to even patch the thing which says to me that they were unaware of the bugs before people complained about them, which means it was not throughly tested (as if that was ever in question).

It's a mess of a game. Once fully patched it's a lot less of a mess but the story is still unsatisfactory. They wanted to tell a more personal story but they didn't give Hawke anything other than backstory. And the three act stories have no resolution except for the Qunari conflict, which is the best part of the entire game.

It's a mess. But it's not horrible either. 6-7/10 seems to be the correct place to rate this game. It's not horrible, it's not great, and more importantly BioWare can do much better.

I love you so much! You are always so eloquent and hit the target with a bullseye every time.

[Foolsfolly]

erynnar wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Flamingdropbear wrote...

After reading a lot of the criticism (constructive and not so constructive) for DA2 I noticed that a lot of the hate was due to comparisons to DA:O. What if instead of DA2 it was its own or even a sequel to Jade Empire (actually the more I think of it, the more awesome it becomes).

Interesting theory, OP. I assume that it has something to do with that, I also assume it has something to do with having the BioWare name attached to it as well.

But I think I'd rate it about the same if it was a stand alone game done by a company I'd never heard of. Well, I might have ranked it higher if it was done by a group of 20somethings as their first game. It would have been quite the impressive start to a career.

But BioWare can do better and should always do better. The two games before it (Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2) felt like the company was growing. It felt like they had arrived. This game feels like a step back.

It all comes down, to me, to the game being rushed. The story's a mess, the gameplay's glitched, and there's no fewer than 3 game breaking glitches in the vanilla game. It took them a month to even patch the thing which says to me that they were unaware of the bugs before people complained about them, which means it was not throughly tested (as if that was ever in question).

It's a mess of a game. Once fully patched it's a lot less of a mess but the story is still unsatisfactory. They wanted to tell a more personal story but they didn't give Hawke anything other than backstory. And the three act stories have no resolution except for the Qunari conflict, which is the best part of the entire game.

It's a mess. But it's not horrible either. 6-7/10 seems to be the correct place to rate this game. It's not horrible, it's not great, and more importantly BioWare can do much better.

I love you so much! You are always so eloquent and hit the target with a bullseye every time.

I find this nothing short of spectacular since I'm quite drunk at the moment. Anything I say tonight could have been said better while sober. But my opinion holds regardless of state of mind.

This is a cop emoticon because I find it funny.

[Sanunes]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Interesting theory, OP. I assume that it has something to do with that, I also assume it has something to do with having the BioWare name attached to it as well.

But I think I'd rate it about the same if it was a stand alone game done by a company I'd never heard of. Well, I might have ranked it higher if it was done by a group of 20somethings as their first game. It would have been quite the impressive start to a career.

But BioWare can do better and should always do better. The two games before it (Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2) felt like the company was growing. It felt like they had arrived. This game feels like a step back.

It all comes down, to me, to the game being rushed. The story's a mess, the gameplay's glitched, and there's no fewer than 3 game breaking glitches in the vanilla game. It took them a month to even patch the thing which says to me that they were unaware of the bugs before people complained about them, which means it was not throughly tested (as if that was ever in question).

It's a mess of a game. Once fully patched it's a lot less of a mess but the story is still unsatisfactory. They wanted to tell a more personal story but they didn't give Hawke anything other than backstory. And the three act stories have no resolution except for the Qunari conflict, which is the best part of the entire game.

It's a mess. But it's not horrible either. 6-7/10 seems to be the correct place to rate this game. It's not horrible, it's not great, and more importantly BioWare can do much better.

I think this sums its up for me as well.  I am just left wondering what the game would have been like with another six to eight months instead of the 18months they got.  With this release I am going to be cautious with future releases, but I still want to see what BioWare is going to produce for at the very worst this is an average title in a world where I find a lot of titles are average.

[erynnar]

Foolsfolly wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Flamingdropbear wrote...

After reading a lot of the criticism (constructive and not so constructive) for DA2 I noticed that a lot of the hate was due to comparisons to DA:O. What if instead of DA2 it was its own or even a sequel to Jade Empire (actually the more I think of it, the more awesome it becomes).

Interesting theory, OP. I assume that it has something to do with that, I also assume it has something to do with having the BioWare name attached to it as well.

But I think I'd rate it about the same if it was a stand alone game done by a company I'd never heard of. Well, I might have ranked it higher if it was done by a group of 20somethings as their first game. It would have been quite the impressive start to a career.

But BioWare can do better and should always do better. The two games before it (Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2) felt like the company was growing. It felt like they had arrived. This game feels like a step back.

It all comes down, to me, to the game being rushed. The story's a mess, the gameplay's glitched, and there's no fewer than 3 game breaking glitches in the vanilla game. It took them a month to even patch the thing which says to me that they were unaware of the bugs before people complained about them, which means it was not throughly tested (as if that was ever in question).

It's a mess of a game. Once fully patched it's a lot less of a mess but the story is still unsatisfactory. They wanted to tell a more personal story but they didn't give Hawke anything other than backstory. And the three act stories have no resolution except for the Qunari conflict, which is the best part of the entire game.

It's a mess. But it's not horrible either. 6-7/10 seems to be the correct place to rate this game. It's not horrible, it's not great, and more importantly BioWare can do much better.

I love you so much! You are always so eloquent and hit the target with a bullseye every time.

I find this nothing short of spectacular since I'm quite drunk at the moment. Anything I say tonight could have been said better while sober. But my opinion holds regardless of state of mind.

This is a cop emoticon because I find it funny.

Hang on while I join you in drunken glee. How much alcohol do I need to catch up do you think? And it won't affect the ending of my chapter that I am FINALLY finishing on my  fanfic right?

oh and to stay on topic, sorta...I think the hate for DA2 is due to  (because I find it funny) taking over and forcing the DA writers and devs to make DA2 they way they thought it should be based off of old sitcoms and grinhouse movies. Yeah! <_<

[The Elite Elite]

I agree with the OP. I do think a lot of the criticism for DA2, is the fact that it has that 2 in the title. With the 2 in the title, one would think they're getting a continuation of the Origins storyline, rather than what it was, its own separate story in a different part of the DA universe, with little impact from our Origins' decisions. While one's opinion on the game itself likely wouldn't be greatly changed, it likely wouldn't be as harsh as it is if the game was just Dragon Age: (insert whatever name you want here).

[erynnar]

The Elite Elite wrote...

I agree with the OP. I do think a lot of the criticism for DA2, is the fact that it has that 2 in the title. With the 2 in the title, one would think they're getting a continuation of the Origins storyline, rather than what it was, its own separate story in a different part of the DA universe, with little impact from our Origins' decisions. While one's opinion on the game itself likely wouldn't be greatly changed, it likely wouldn't be as harsh as it is if the game was just Dragon Age: (insert whatever name you want here).

My personal fav is DA: The Kirkwall Chronicles.

[PunchoT]

I hate DA2 for the fact that it's a downright inferior game when compared to most other Bioware games. Sure it's shiny, streamlined, fully voice-acted, and had an advertisement campaign, but it sorely disappoints. If people keep on accepting games of slightly less quality than the previous, then we eventually end up with just another mediocre stack of games.

[erynnar]

PunchoT wrote...

I hate DA2 for the fact that it's a downright inferior game when compared to most other Bioware games. Sure it's shiny, streamlined, fully voice-acted, and had an advertisement campaign, but it sorely disappoints. If people keep on accepting games of slightly less quality than the previous, then we eventually end up with just another mediocre stack of games.

This^ And we already have enough mediocre games to choose from, to my mind.

[Foolsfolly]

Hang on while I join you in drunken glee. How much alcohol do I need to catch up do you think? And it won't affect the ending of my chapter that I am FINALLY finishing on my fanfic right?

Five pints of New Castle. Feeling...kinda great. Working on six.

I agree with the OP. I do think a lot of the criticism for DA2, is the fact that it has that 2 in the title. With the 2 in the title, one would think they're getting a continuation of the Origins storyline, rather than what it was, its own separate story in a different part of the DA universe, with little impact from our Origins' decisions. While one's opinion on the game itself likely wouldn't be greatly changed, it likely wouldn't be as harsh as it is if the game was just Dragon Age: (insert whatever name you want here).

I don;t know. Maybe. But I didn't want an Origins 2. I didn't want to continue the Warden's story, I felt that was done. (Of course, I'm also a big fan of the Ultimate Sacrifice ending).

I think the ideas for DA2 are solid enough it's just presentation that sufferes. They iddn't continue the game properly. It felt too disjointed from its own chapters let alone from the first game.

I think they intended to not have an import function until later in the development. I think they were going more old school and had a cannon ending but forum postings and the like talked them out of it. So they allowed an import which changes largely nothing.

Between the import changes of DA2 and a canon DA1 that's unchanging I'd have rather had a canon DA1. As is you just change the amount of cameos you get in DA2 which isn't that big of a change.

I feel like I'm ranbling. I'm ending this here.

I hate DA2 for the fact that it's a downright inferior game when compared to most other Bioware games. Sure it's shiny, streamlined, fully voice-acted, and had an advertisement campaign, but it sorely disappoints. If people keep on accepting games of slightly less quality than the previous, then we eventually end up with just another mediocre stack of games.

It's not shiny. It's an ugly game by most standards. This is 2011. We have games with such graphics that it'd blow your grandmother's mind to gaze upon them. DA2 is rather meh looking compared to many contempory games out there.

And as for ending up with a mediocre game in a series...that's how series work. There's no such thing as a a series that stands the test of time. Everything eventually devolves into terrible and forgetable.

One of my favorite series of all time was the Thief series by Looking Glass. By the time the third game came out it was apparent the series had lost anything it had to tell. DA has a set amount of time before BioWare runs out of things interesting to say in that universe.

It's like comic books. You can love a comic book series but eventually you'll lose interest. Because it gets stupid and fake after any amount of time.

[Yrkoon]

Flamingdropbear wrote...

After reading a lot of the criticism (constructive and not so constructive) for DA2 I noticed that a lot of the hate was due to comparisons to DA:O. What if instead of DA2 it was its own or even a sequel to Jade Empire (actually the more I think of it, the more awesome it becomes).

Silly logic:  In order to overcome/ignore a game's  overwhelmingly numerous flaws, we  have to:
 
1) see it as  a sequel to a  different/lesser game  (translation: we have to lie to ourselves)
 
Or

2) we have to  judge it on its own  (translation:  we have to  Judge it in a complete vaccuum;  literally wipe our minds clean  of all context)


No friggin sale.  When a game is truly good,   you  don't *need* to do any of this mental gymanstics garbage.      When a game is *authentically* great,  Its awesomeness immedietly stands out no matter what your mindset is, or what context you're using. 

[Yrkoon]

nerdage wrote...

Doesn't make the criticism any less valid though

In fact, it makes the criticism MORE valid.

When people have to  program their own minds in order to see the game as good  (lets pretend its really a sequel to Jade Empire!)  then chances are even THEY realize the game is not-so-good.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 avril 2011 - 03:59 .

[Vhardamis]

If it wasn't called Dragon Age II I would have been far more forgiving on it. But by being called that, you can not help but compare the two. It is not an unreasonable assumption to expect similarities between games in a SERIES. While I understand improvements are expected and necessary it should still feel like its part of the whole.

There are parts of the second I enjoyed, parts I disliked, and parts that were complete WTF. Having played it twice now, it just does not feel like the same game world.

And don't even get me started on the fixing of non broke things...