132 réponses à ce sujet

[Blastback]

Sabriana wrote...

Well, there are also examples where the sequel actually redeemed the original. The following are, of course, personal opinions, but:

NWN 2 = bleh
MotB = wow

NWN 1 = bleh
HotU = wow

BG = Well, it was okay (puts helmet on)
BG 2 = wow

FO 1 = mmmhh.., it was okay
FO 2 = wow

I can think of a few more, but it would take up too much space. Besides it's now after 1 am, and I need to go to sleep.

Got BG a bit wrong there. 

BG= good
BG2+Throne of Bhaal=OMG BEST GAME EVER!!!!

[Roxlimn]

Pandaman102:

If there's any failing in the way that the DA2 story was told, it was in that so many gamers didn't understand who or what it was about. Then again, that's about as much to do with DA2 as the fact that gamers generally don't have a wealth of literary experiences to inform them.

[Pandaman102]

Roxlimn wrote...

Pandaman102:

If there's any failing in the way that the DA2 story was told, it was in that so many gamers didn't understand who or what it was about. Then again, that's about as much to do with DA2 as the fact that gamers generally don't have a wealth of literary experiences to inform them.

Honestly I'm at a loss here, on one hand you seem to be a reasonable type who is capable of making sound arguments but on the other you just rolled around with a statment that boils down to "nothing's wrong with the story, everyone else is just ignorant". I hope I'm misinterpreting your statement.

[MingWolf]

Roxlimn wrote...

Pandaman102:

If there's any
failing in the way that the DA2 story was told, it was in that so many
gamers didn't understand who or what it was about. Then again, that's
about as much to do with DA2 as the fact that gamers generally don't
have a wealth of literary experiences to inform them.

Yeah,
after appreciating all that Homer, Shakespeare, Dante, Austin, King,
Kafka, etc., etc., still isn't enough to make dimwitted literary
neophytes like myself and others understand the story in this game. 
Surely there is something wrong with us. Thanks.  Do have pity on us,
for clearly, we are not as informed as you are. 

Modifié par MingWolf, 25 avril 2011 - 02:15 .

[Yrkoon]

Roxlimn wrote...

Pandaman102:

If there's any failing in the way that the DA2 story was told, it was in that so many gamers didn't understand who or what it was about. Then again, that's about as much to do with DA2 as the fact that gamers generally don't have a wealth of literary experiences to inform them.

Aah yes.    If we didn't like the story, then  it's partly our fault for being literary simpletons.

It couldn't be that Bioware's story tellers just happened to slap together a convoluted,  disjointed,   ADD-friendly, non-immersive story (set of stories, to be exact) that went nowhere, and ended somewhere in the--- excuse me,   didn't  even have an ending.    No, no.  Couldn't be that.

One day, I'll wake up and  come on these boards and actually go a whole day without being  directly INSULTED by some  DA2 fan or another.  But until then, I'll kindly suggest  that you, sir,  stop pointing fingers at me, as I am not the one who sh*t out   this turd.    That was exclusively  Bioware's doing, remember?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 avril 2011 - 02:47 .

[Roxlimn]

Pandaman102:

Honestly I'm at a loss here, on one hand you seem to be a reasonable type who is capable of making sound arguments but on the other you just rolled around with a statment that boils down to "nothing's wrong with the story, everyone else is just ignorant". I hope I'm misinterpreting your statement.

Many gamers are mistaking DA2's story to be a coming-of-age power story about Hawke. It's not that kind of story.

MingWolf:

I do kind of have pity on you.

Yrkoon:

The story is unified, and singular, for once. DA:O's story is disjointed and convoluted. DA2's story is significantly more focused. It's not a set of stories. It's just one story with many factors, each of which had a story of its own.

It has an ending. The fact that you can't tell what that ending is speaks for itself.

It's not an insult to say that if you can't understand what DA2 is all about, then you didn't get it, and could use exposure to similar stories that have been better told.

[Pandaman102]

Roxlimn wrote...

Many gamers are mistaking DA2's story to be a coming-of-age power story about Hawke. It's not that kind of story.

From http://dragonage.bioware.com/

Rise To Power...
By Any Means Necessary

Experience the epic sequel to the 2009 Game of the Year from the critically acclaimed makers of Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2. You are one of the few who escaped the destruction of your home. Now, forced to fight for survival in an ever-changing world, you must gather the deadliest of allies, amass fame and fortune, and seal your place in history. This is the story of how the world changed forever. The legend  of your Rise to Power begins now.

Key Features:

• Embark upon an all-new adventure that takes place across an entire decade and shapes itself around every decision you make.
• Determine your rise to power from a destitute refugee to the revered champion of the land.
• Think like a general and fight like a Spartan with dynamic new combat mechanics that put you right in the heart of battle whether you are a mage, rogue, or warrior.
• Go deeper into the world of Dragon Age with an entirely new cinematic experience that grabs hold of you from the beginning and never lets go.
• Discover a whole realm rendered in stunning detail with updated graphics and a new visual style.

Italics courtesy of me, obviously.

Does Bioware's own description of the game not suggest a "rise to power" theme? Or suggest that the player "determines" how Hawke rises to power? There's a disparity between what's expected and what's delivered, is it the fault of the gamers for being ignorant or misleading advertising?

Modifié par Pandaman102, 25 avril 2011 - 04:16 .

[Tommy6860]

Pandaman102 wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

Many gamers are mistaking DA2's story to be a coming-of-age power story about Hawke. It's not that kind of story.

From http://dragonage.bioware.com/

Rise To Power...
By Any Means Necessary

Experience the epic sequel to the 2009 Game of the Year from the critically acclaimed makers of Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2. You are one of the few who escaped the destruction of your home. Now, forced to fight for survival in an ever-changing world, you must gather the deadliest of allies, amass fame and fortune, and seal your place in history. This is the story of how the world changed forever. The legend  of your Rise to Power begins now.

Key Features:

• Embark upon an all-new adventure that takes place across an entire decade and shapes itself around every decision you make.
• Determine your rise to power from a destitute refugee to the revered champion of the land.
• Think like a general and fight like a Spartan with dynamic new combat mechanics that put you right in the heart of battle whether you are a mage, rogue, or warrior.
• Go deeper into the world of Dragon Age with an entirely new cinematic experience that grabs hold of you from the beginning and never lets go.
• Discover a whole realm rendered in stunning detail with updated graphics and a new visual style.

Italics courtesy of me, obviously.

Does Bioware's own description of the game not suggest a "rise to power" theme? Or suggest that the player "determines" how Hawke rises to power? There's a disparity between what's expected and what's delivered, is it the fault of the gamers for being ignorant or misleading advertising?

In all honesty, I should get my money back just based on that first bullet-point. Barely any decision I make during the course of the game shapes any aspect of the game story, let alone "every" decision; everything is pre-determined regardless of my choices.. My decisions barely make a dent on my companions as well.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 25 avril 2011 - 04:27 .

[Roxlimn]

Pandaman102:

It may be because of advertising, if gamers find the game somewhat against their expectations. I'd say that Bioware was misleading in their painting of DA2's story as primarily a rise to power story. That said, it is common for companies to emphasize smaller aspects of a larger game in this fashion, and it's not Bioware's fault if most gamers don't understand a game they've already played to completion.

[Roxlimn]

Tommy6860:

The story and the fate of your companions can be greatly shaped by how you choose. Clearly, you did not observe this occurring in your game, but these things happened just the same.

[Tommy6860]

Roxlimn wrote...

Tommy6860:

The story and the fate of your companions can be greatly shaped by how you choose. Clearly, you did not observe this occurring in your game, but these things happened just the same.

Really like what?? The only two that can be shaped, and it really is barely anything at all, are Anders and Isabela, outside of romances, of which I don't count as part of the overall story. I can flirt Merrill, then cut her off when she's ready, then rival her endlessly, and she's there at the end, no matter, as one example. But I I was mostly referring to the first bullet-point anyway as I near have no chocie in shaping some 10 year adventure. They at least used one word appropriately, "adventure" because it is an adventure game far more than it is an RPG.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 25 avril 2011 - 04:35 .

[Pandaman102]

Roxlimn wrote...

Pandaman102:

It may be because of advertising, if gamers find the game somewhat against their expectations. I'd say that Bioware was misleading in their painting of DA2's story as primarily a rise to power story. That said, it is common for companies to emphasize smaller aspects of a larger game in this fashion, and it's not Bioware's fault if most gamers don't understand a game they've already played to completion.

Except this "smaller aspect" they emphasize doesn't exist. At all. You don't determine how Hawke rises to power, it's all preordained. Your decisions don't affect Kirkwall, the city will always be in the exact same state your Act 3 as everybody else's Act 3 regardless of how you played.

They promised, even partially, a rise to power story and only presented a meager shadow of it, but you're arguing that's acceptable because - essentially - we can't believe what's advertised.

By that logic next time you open a game box and angry bees pour out, blame yourself for believing the "game" part of the advertising.

[tariq071]

Roxlimn wrote...

Pandaman102:

If there's any failing in the way that the DA2 story was told, it was in that so many gamers didn't understand who or what it was about. Then again, that's about as much to do with DA2 as the fact that gamers generally don't have a wealth of literary experiences to inform them.

Wait, what..are you trying to say here that writing of some 5 cent novel guy here in DA2 is on equal quality with best literature classics?I think we were reading different books labeled as classics then.I mean this is not  War and peace quality.

Are you sure that he is actualy capable of that much depth in writing , because if so, i haven't see it so far.Story is lacking in everything from rich lore background  to complex climactic resolution, mainly because it's represented in narative way of the eyewitness after the (in game world sense) historical facts, which itself excludes any kind of complex branching of the story as a whole.

It is obvious that Hawke was not main reason for the story(no one has to be very literate to understand that), and that ultimate subject was disclosed only in the ending cinematics .However,  that is not what was advertised for this game, which was (falsely) advertised first as "true sequel" and then as "Rise to power" story with players heavily influencing events in it(where exactly?).

Using retrospective vignettes is hard and requires good writer, so creating something great like Decameron happens only every few hundred years.This story is far from anything resembling any true quality, at least presentation of it.

Modifié par tariq071, 25 avril 2011 - 06:17 .

[tmp7704]

Roxlimn wrote...

If there's any failing in the way that the DA2 story was told, it was in that so many gamers didn't understand who or what it was about. Then again, that's about as much to do with DA2 as the fact that gamers generally don't have a wealth of literary experiences to inform them.

I'm curious; could you share your interpretation of what the DA2 story was about? Obviously since you're not Mr.Gaider it's going to be just that, an interpretation, but it can be interesting to hear just the same.

Modifié par tmp7704, 25 avril 2011 - 07:21 .

[Yrkoon]

Roxlimn wrote...

Pandaman102:

Honestly I'm at a loss here, on one hand you seem to be a reasonable type who is capable of making sound arguments but on the other you just rolled around with a statment that boils down to "nothing's wrong with the story, everyone else is just ignorant". I hope I'm misinterpreting your statement.

Many gamers are mistaking DA2's story to be a coming-of-age power story about Hawke. It's not that kind of story.

MingWolf:

I do kind of have pity on you.

Yrkoon:

The story is unified, and singular, for once

No.  It really isn't.  Act one is all about raising money for a deep roads mission.  Act two is about the Qunari, and then act 3 is about the templars vs. mages.  The story makes absolutely no attempt to link these three main plots together in any way, other than to LITERALLY tell you, in your journal:  "um, ok, this part of the story is done, now its time to focus on the next part."

Like I said, it reeks of being  slapped  together in a rush.   It's disjointed, and ADD-friendly.    Oh excuse me, perhaps I should  say it in a language you'd understand:  it's gag-worthy for any true literary conneseur.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 avril 2011 - 10:34 .

[AkiKishi]

Roxlimn wrote...

Tommy6860:

The story and the fate of your companions can be greatly shaped by how you choose. Clearly, you did not observe this occurring in your game, but these things happened just the same.

Could you harden them against type ? Could you convince Anders in the same way your could convince Leliana ? 
Maybe you are mixing up DA and DA2.

[Saintthanksgiving]

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Modifié par Saintthanksgiving, 25 avril 2011 - 01:34 .

[Saintthanksgiving]

I was trying to post a photo but... i have no idea what that is. is there a way to remove that?

[Pandaman102]

Just hit the "edit" link next to the "quote" link.

Edit: whoops, nevermind, I see you already tried editing it. Looks like the same kind of mess you'd get if you tried to open an image with notepad, maybe there's something wrong with your headers?

Modifié par Pandaman102, 25 avril 2011 - 01:41 .

[Cutlass Jack]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Could you harden them against type ? Could you convince Anders in the same way your could convince Leliana ? 
Maybe you are mixing up DA and DA2.

You can convince Anders that he's been completely wrong and in the process make a clear divide between his and Justice's personality. He still can't stop doing what he does but he's no longer a willing participant. You can convince Merril that she's being an idiot in regards to Blood Magic as well. You can convince Isabela to think of others beside herself and let herself dare to feel love and attachment. Heavilly against type for her.

Which is at least as much as convincing Leliana that she's okay with Threesomes. (Or Foursomes)

Fenris you can't do much with. I'd have settled for being able to convince him to wear shoes.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 25 avril 2011 - 01:43 .

[Roxlimn]

BobSmith101:

You could actually convince Fenris and Isabella to act against their natures. Or not. Or you can pawn off Isabella to an NPC and sell Fenris into slavery. Likewise, you can convince Varric not to kill someone he really wants to kill, Aveline to actually act nice for a change, and Merrill to wreck her important object with a hammer.

These things are in the game.

[accessd]

BobSmith101 wrote...

DA2 on it's own merits is pretty bad. As the sequel to DA it's downright awful.

[Bfler]

If the game wouldn't be the successor of DAO the sales would be much lower. Many people did only buy a copy because they like Origins.

Modifié par Bfler, 25 avril 2011 - 04:53 .

[Vicious]

Judging it on it's own merits, it's an alright game. Not particularly awesome or memorable in any way however - It feels like playing that Final Fantasy 8. Was fun, but I don't remember anything about it.

Seeing as how it's a sequel of DA:O and attempting to cash in on it's name, however, there's no reason it should NOT be judged against DA:O.

And as most of us know, DA2 is awful in comparison.