49 réponses à ce sujet

[yaw]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

yaw wrote...

And as for being a loser... he excelled in his field and because the best Antivian Crow there was, and had a vast array of lovers, which included his targets. I think he's a winner if there ever was one.

So, being wildly promiscuous while committing murder repeatedly and remorselessly is your calculus for winning at life?  Ladies and gentleman, Charlie Sheen is in the building.

No, but I wouldn't call someone who rose to become the very best in their field (whatever it may be: repeated and remorseless murder or... I don't know... accountancy) and has qualities that lead to him being adored and lusted after everywhere he goes, even from those he has been sent to murder, a loser.

[wildannie]

 One of the biggest problems with the new look for Zev is that they put him in between the more human looking DAO style and the new style.  

I think they should have given him the whole new look and made sure that his over all facial structure and relative proportions (jawline, cheekbones, eye sockets) was true to the original look.  

Re: elves in general... Please, give them ALL eyebrows.

Edit: Fenris is all the evidence we need to see that the new elf look can be very handsome indeed.

Modifié par wildannie, 23 avril 2011 - 04:21 .

[ejoslin]

wildannie wrote...

 One of the biggest problems with the new look for Zev is that they put him in between the more human looking DAO style and the new style.  

I think they should have given him the whole new look and made sure that his over all facial structure and relative proportions (jawline, cheekbones, eye sockets) was true to the original look.  

Re: elves in general... Please, give them ALL eyebrows.

Oh, I agree with this.  Zevran had such an angular face in DAO; the fat chin, no cheekbones look in DA2 just didn't work with his features.  The nose was also off -- a mix between the beaky nose he had in DAO and the new elf nose.

Fenris proved that male elves can be very masculine looking and have angular faces.  Not that the rest of the male elves looked anything like him, but it CAN be done.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 avril 2011 - 04:25 .

[wildannie]

yes, it is strange that there is such a gulf between the look of fenris, and all the other elven males. Sure, I can understand that even among elves he's meant to be really good looking but there should be some more middle ground I think. I think it boils down to resources again.

[yaw]

I don't whether they were intentionally cashing in on Avatar fame with those noses, or some design team just failed. I mean seriously. They look horrific.

Maybe if they were a new race being introduced, then it would be okay to do with what you want with them. But to redesign an already established race so badly, and then reintroduce a well-known and loved character as part of it... ack.

Seems like they quickly bodge-jobbed the whole elven race, leaving some time to put effort into Fenris.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

yaw wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

yaw wrote...

And as for being a loser... he excelled in his field and because the best Antivian Crow there was, and had a vast array of lovers, which included his targets. I think he's a winner if there ever was one.

So, being wildly promiscuous while committing murder repeatedly and remorselessly is your calculus for winning at life?  Ladies and gentleman, Charlie Sheen is in the building.

No, but I wouldn't call someone who rose to become the very best in their field (whatever it may be: repeated and remorseless murder or... I don't know... accountancy) and has qualities that lead to him being adored and lusted after everywhere he goes, even from those he has been sent to murder, a loser.

Hmm.  I guess I'm seeing this more through the lens of emotional stability than ostensible accomplishments.  I've never seen promiscuity as a good sign (much less murder for hire .  'Course,  stories have the advantage of not having to address an entire person--they can highlight whatever qualities they wish to define a character.

Anyway, I don't see Zevran listening to The Cure with a razor blade in a room with the walls painted black, like the other guy.  But I can see him looking for reasons not to put the knife in his own neck and having trouble finding any some nights.

[Mecher3k]

ejoslin wrote...

Fenris proved that male elves can be very masculine looking and have angular faces.  Not that the rest of the male elves looked anything like him, but it CAN be done.

Fenris looks like the typical male from Japanese games, as in, can barely tell if they are male or female.

[ejoslin]

Mecher3k wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Fenris proved that male elves can be very masculine looking and have angular faces.  Not that the rest of the male elves looked anything like him, but it CAN be done.

Fenris looks like the typical male from Japanese games, as in, can barely tell if they are male or female.

But no, that's not true -- he does look masculine.  His jaw is square, his face is a bit gaunt, his brows are heavy, his features strong.  There's nothing fragile in his face, which is a marked contrast from other elves, especially the females.  I have played JRPGs and yes, there are issues in those games with androgyny, but that is NOT an issue in DA2 with Fenris. 

I hear people talk about his hair making him look <insert pejoritive comment here> but that all comes down to personal taste.  I like the unique hair, it's closest to default fem!Hawke's hair actually, but still different.  However, it does hang in his face, so if someone is not going to like him, I guess that's where "emo hair" comes from.

Anyway, the point was that Fenris has a face that proves that the elf face morph system CAN support angular features.  The jaw can be strong, the cheekbones defined, the eyes in proportion.  Zevran could have been made better.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 avril 2011 - 05:23 .

[orbit991]

Poor Zevran just looked like some generic background NPC.

[xkg]

Maybe some pics can help here:

DA:O


DA:2


Yes Zevran in DA2 look lil worse than in DAO's but it is not so tragic in his case.

Merrill on the other hand doesnt even look similar to DAO's Merrill (imo of course)

[Mecher3k]

While Zevran could look better in the new elf art style, he still would of looked like a joke compared to DA:O's Zevran.

Fenris along with Merill isn't even fully the new art style. Which is why they don't look horrible.

[Volourn]

"@Volourn, maybe it's because you fancy Zev more than Anders and Fenris that gets you so riled up??"

I know it's hard to believe in the 21st century, but there are still some heterosexual males who exist who much prefer the Morrigans and Isabellas of the world. Just sayin'.


Perhaps I'm 'riled up' about Zevran and not Fenris or Anders is that neitehr of them tried to murder me first time they see me. If they can be emo so can I. I dunno... but it is my right to get emo iover attempted murder of my characetrs' life. Just sayin'.

P.S. Someone who cries about being 'off topic' misses the point.

a) The thread title is called Zevran which is exactly who I'm discussing.

It's fully allowable that topics cna go on tangents. And, let's be honest there's not really much to say about the original Zevran issue here. You either perfer DA1 Zevran's looks, DA2's Zevran looks or neither/both. *shrug* Very limited.

But, Zevran being an attempted murderer. Oodles of fun!

[Agamo45]

I'm more interested in why he appeared in my game when I slit his throat in DA:O.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Agamo45 wrote...

I'm more interested in why he appeared in my game when I slit his throat in DA:O.

Covered this in a different thread.  In Dragon Age, killed characters come back to life at the end of a fight, right?  So, after you killed him, another band of adventurers walked by and inducted him into their party, whereupon he sprang back to life.

[yaw]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

I'm more interested in why he appeared in my game when I slit his throat in DA:O.

Covered this in a different thread.  In Dragon Age, killed characters come back to life at the end of a fight, right?  So, after you killed him, another band of adventurers walked by and inducted him into their party, whereupon he sprang back to life.

So... he's a zombie now?

Maybe that explains his new look.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

yaw wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

I'm more interested in why he appeared in my game when I slit his throat in DA:O.

Covered this in a different thread.  In Dragon Age, killed characters come back to life at the end of a fight, right?  So, after you killed him, another band of adventurers walked by and inducted him into their party, whereupon he sprang back to life.

So... he's a zombie now?

Maybe that explains his new look.

It would explain the look of other elves more than his, I think.  Zevran's new look probably just means that there's a huge Draco Malfoy fanboy on the Bioware staff.

[sleepyowlet]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

It would explain the look of other elves more than his, I think.  Zevran's new look probably just means that there's a huge Draco Malfoy fanboy on the Bioware staff.

You know, you might be on to something there - and not only concerning Zevran. *Both* male elven companions kinda fit this trope: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DracoInLeatherPants

Only those two weren't fandom-creations...

[erynnar]

yaw wrote...

heh. Nah. I slept with the HOT Morrigan. I win. I'm not gay, but their were other male characters in DA1/DA2 thatb were cooler than Zevran. Zevran is a loser assassin who fails at his job.

He knew that he would fail agaisnt the Warden, and taking the job was a suicide attempt.  

You can't say he a loser and isn't cool if you know nothing about his personality and story. You said you just slit his throat, so you obviously have no further impression of him past that inital encounter. I wonder what made you hate him so much? 

juh-luh-oh-see

Don't feed the troll, aka Volourn, sweetie. He trolls a lot of threads with insults and doesn' t know how to use the quote button, either in the hopes of being more annoying, or just because he/she is, indeed, that dim. He will no doubt comment on my telling you to ignore him, which will garner him nothing from me, but might from someone else, until he/she crawsl back under their bridge and the next topic comes along that might accept his/her troll behavior by rising to the bait. 

Now, back on topic.  Yep, they totally fouled Zev up.  We can agree that digital art is art, and it is subjective. Some found Zev beautiful, and handsome, others no. I happen to fall in the beautiful or handsome category myself. I was totally appalled by what happened to him and to Alistair, and to Teagan.  It looks like the art department got really lazy and phoned it in.  Maybe they finished the cameos last minute.  Almost looks as if they were told to forget about those cameos (Leli, Nate Howe looked good) and then were told, "oh oops guys, we are going to have them show up after all, so draw them but you only have two days). 

In otherwords, like many things about the game, they felt rushed.  They were graphically one step above the NPC fuzzy faced "furniture people," as I like to call them. Or the DA2 Zev I like to call "guppy face."

Modifié par erynnar, 24 avril 2011 - 08:17 .

[Sabriana]

DA:O Zevran bears no resemblance to the DA 2 "whatever it is that passes itself off as" Zevran. To the point where I shut the game down, and didn't pick it back up until the Nexus (fabulous) modders had a crack at him.

The new one doesn't look much like the real one either (DA:O to DA 2 toolset limitations), but at least he's not this...., this thing.

[samuelkaine]

I actually preferred the new Zev, the old one just looked sleazy. (Yes, I know, he's an assassin raised in a brothel, that's the idea, but I still didn't like it).

[Satyricon331]

The new Zevran and Alistair suffered a tragic industrial arcane accident that melted their facial bone structures while leaving their skin intact.  The Chantry has moved swiftly to suppress the rumor that the same condition has affected the general population in large areas of the Free Marches, a condition rumored to give the men in particular Unshapely Face Disease.  In unrelated news, there are reports of extraterrestrials near Sundermount.

Modifié par Satyricon331, 24 avril 2011 - 10:34 .

[ejoslin]

sleepyowlet wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

It would explain the look of other elves more than his, I think.  Zevran's new look probably just means that there's a huge Draco Malfoy fanboy on the Bioware staff.

You know, you might be on to something there - and not only concerning Zevran. *Both* male elven companions kinda fit this trope: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DracoInLeatherPants

Only those two weren't fandom-creations...

How do you figure they fit the trope?  It's a commentary about fans and not characters.  But they're characters that are written to be sympathetic on varying levels -- neither are supposed to be villans, and as you get to know them, you learn they are victims themselves.

I think the only thing that applies is the leather pants and in Fenris' hair, it DOES fall in his hair like Malfoy's does I suppose...

Gah, there's a moitivation poster out that that has a flattering picture of Zevran (not that awful one that appears everywhere including this thread) and one of DA2 Zevran with the caption, "Fanbois can't tell the difference."  I'm sure there's another out there with a less inflammatory caption, but I can't find it

Whether you like the way DAO Zevran looks or not, DA2 did NOT take the idea that he is supposed to be amazingly good looking and make it happen/keep it consistant.  The lack of cheekbones and the soft chin...  urg  They could have done a bit better there.

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 avril 2011 - 01:50 .

[Rheia]

I agree they dropped the ball on Zev (and Alistair) cameos.

When I look at Zev, I kind of, sort of, see some of his old features melted into the new morph, but sum of those parts just does not make up the whole of what Zev used to be. Not by a long shot.

Also, during my first run, Alistair was the drunk, so when I looked at him I went 'ooh, boy, but you let yourself go...' in that particular situation though, that morph fit. Warden/king alistair? Not so much... They looked like the swollen drunks with different complexion.

I guess it just came down to time/resources issue when dealing with non-central plot cameos. With the way they were treated I almost wish they didn't 'appear' at all. A quest related to them that would compound on their Origins mystique/post Awakening exploits would be far more welcome in my books.

Modifié par Rheia, 24 avril 2011 - 02:59 .

[Ulicus]

ejoslin wrote...

All the DAO companions were suppoesd to be amazing looking with the exceptions perhaps of Oghren and Sten and of course Shale -- Zevran even comments on it.

Everything said about the way Zevran, Leliana, Alistair, Wynne, Morrigan and the Warden look, by outsiders and by the companions themselves reinforces that they're all supposed to be beautiful. Zevran in DA2 most definitely is not. Alistair looks past his prime (which he really shouldn't -- most men start to get sexier when they hit their late 20s) but not mutated.

This.

That said, I didn't think Origins did a good job of representing that at all (except in maybe Morrigan's case), so I was expecting DA2 to pretty the returning characters up. Alas.

I mean, come on, give Zev some eyebrows at the very least!  

Modifié par Ulicus, 24 avril 2011 - 03:20 .

[yaw]

samuelkaine wrote...

I actually preferred the new Zev, the old one just looked sleazy. (Yes, I know, he's an assassin raised in a brothel, that's the idea, but I still didn't like it).

He hasn't been made less "sleezy", his model has just been poorly designed.