255 réponses à ce sujet

[Carfax]

Seena wrote...

Carfax - I'm only going to address one issue -  the rest will not get either of us anywhere.

The latest data do, in fact show a wage discrepency that is not accounted for in the way you think it is.

I refer you to this article, which summarizes the latest findings:

http://www.time.com/...1983185,00.html

The wage gap has narrowed, but there is still a gap that is unexplained.

I skimmed over the article, and it seemed pretty ambiguous to me.  It seemed like the author was trying to appease both believers and skeptics of gender pay inequity.

No one is denying that discrimination exists.  However, I don't believe it to be the main reason behind the gender inequity that we see.  There are other factors which account for that rather easily which have nothing to do with sexism, ie men working in careers/jobs with higher salaries, men working more hours than women, women taking more time off work than men due to pregnancy and other family matters etc..

And I'm saddened that you wouldn't debate gender equality with me   It would have been a good debate

Modifié par Carfax, 26 avril 2011 - 02:17 .

[Seena]

Summarum wrote...

"Unexplained" is pretty far from "proof of sexism".

A wider front? How much more wider can you get?

Not much.  I tried to narrow down the topic in the OP by excluding the tangential "body image" issues which have already been discussed to death, but they crop up anyway, in addition to other completely unrelated things like "the gender wage gap".  I suspect it's just impossible to discuss anything egalitarian without it sprawling out into a massive "patriarchy rahh rahh rahh" fest.

Just where *is* all this body image being discussed to death ? Hmmmmmm??????/  Cause I don't see it - certainly not by women.

[Seena]

Carfax wrote...

Seena wrote...

Carfax - I'm only going to address one issue -  the rest will not get either of us anywhere.

The latest data do, in fact show a wage discrepency that is not accounted for in the way you think it is.

I refer you to this article, which summarizes the latest findings:

http://www.time.com/...1983185,00.html

The wage gap has narrowed, but there is still a gap that is unexplained.

I skimmed over the article, and it seemed pretty ambiguous to me.  It seemed like the author was trying to appease both believers and skeptics of gender pay inequity.

No one is denying that discrimination exists.  However, I don't believe it to be the main reason behind the gender inequity that we see.  There are other factors which account for that rather easily which have nothing to do with sexism, ie men working in careers/jobs with higher salaries, men working more hours than women, women taking more time off work than men due to pregnancy and other family matters etc..

And I'm saddened that you wouldn't debate gender equality with me   It would have been a good debate

The article wasn't ambiguous at all. Not one bit - it accounted for reasons why women's wages were lower - and was specific in how not all  of those reasons accounted the actual pay gap.

Sexism is there - in school, in the workforce.  In life.  Whether you want to believe it - or not.

And no, it wouldn't have been  a good debate - trust me.   But then I come from a time not so long ago when women couldn't take shop and weren't allowed to play sandlot or little league baseball.  When they were expected to take typing, and male collegues would throw reports to be typed on their desk, and accuse them of lying when their answer was, "I don't type".   I'm also in a male dominated profession - so my perspective is kind of... acute.

We are making progress- but we have a LONG way to go.   

Tell you what - we can have this discussion again once a woman is elected president. But I'm betting I'm dead before then.  And to tell you the truth - if Palin or Bachman gets elected - I'd rather be.

Modifié par Seena, 26 avril 2011 - 07:50 .

[Any0day]

Carfax wrote...

No one is denying that discrimination exists.  However, I don't believe it to be the main reason behind the gender inequity that we see.  There are other factors which account for that rather easily which have nothing to do with sexism, ie men working in careers/jobs with higher salaries, men working more hours than women, women taking more time off work than men due to pregnancy and other family matters etc..

Jesus man - I'm seriously wondering if you've ever had a paying job in America (I honestly don't even know if you're American), but I've seen it first hand where a woman gets the same position as a man and gets paid less. It's a pretty common practice, and yeah - I'm sure there are ''factors'' (aka excuses). I'm honestly not going to sit here and said I've researched the topic and have an abundant amount of information to swing at you, because --- I honestly don't care, it's not my fight -- but I certainly agree with anyone who says women are paid less because I've seen it first hand.

And I'm saddened that you wouldn't debate gender equality with me   It would have been a good debate

Debating gender equality, much like this thread, is like debating religion. I've done it enough times to know it isn't fun nor is it one you can win.

[Nozybidaj]

The widest front I ever saw on the "Sexist Bioware" debate had to be those "glamor" shots of Miranda in ME2 bending over and leaning against her desk or what have you. Doesn't get much wider than that.....

[Stanley Woo]

Sorry, folks, but this thread has turned decidedly political and not Dragon Age related in the last couple of pages.

End of line.