255 réponses à ce sujet

[Gotholhorakh]

Summarum wrote..

Men aren't being sexually objectified like women are in the media.  Most
of those images are actually made for the male audience as an image of
what a "man" should be

  This post is highly illustrative of what the underlying problem is.  When a circumstance C applies to groups A and B independently, it should be intuitively understood that any consequence to A is also a consequence to B.

Indeed, if men are objectified in the media that's just an awesome unfair advantage they get, and the same thing for women means they are cruelly opressed.

After all, men don't feel insecure, they don't get eating disorders and depression, they don't get objectified or ridiculed by women if they don't look like the men in the media, even if it's because they work around the clock and barely have the energy to clean the house and make themselves food, let alone go to the gym.

People don't walk past a male being physically assaulted in the street because he can deal with it himself (ditto bereavement, ditto torment in school, ditto everything down to changing a wheel on your car). People don't assume a man will just automatically be willing to die if a war happens. People don't expect him to be financially liable for everyone in his family, never dare to suggest his adult female dependents either get a job or else contribute to chores (that would be sexist), and never complain.

Men don't get abused by their partners, men aren't living in life-long, loveless marriages of indentured servitude in their millions, and they definitely aren't still expected to conform to the "breadwinner" half of the 1950s role-specialisation model of parenting for their whole lives, when that shizzle is seen as barbaric to expect of women.

Best of all, people don't point and laugh at men when they fail, or judge them to be a very bad person for showing normal human weakness.

Nothing bad ever happens to men, they have no feelings, and *that* is why it's objectification when it happens to women, but yet more unfair awesome stuff if it happens to men.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 25 avril 2011 - 11:30 .

[neppakyo]

Gothy wrote...
Best of all, people don't point and laugh at men when they fail

I point and laugh at anyone who fails, regardless of their age, sex, or gender. This also applies to people falling down.

[Seena]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Summarum wrote..

Men aren't being sexually objectified like women are in the media.  Most
of those images are actually made for the male audience as an image of
what a "man" should be

  This post is highly illustrative of what the underlying problem is.  When a circumstance C applies to groups A and B independently, it should be intuitively understood that any consequence to A is also a consequence to B.

Indeed, if men are objectified in the media that's just an awesome unfair advantage they get, and the same thing for women means they are cruelly opressed.

After all, men don't feel insecure, they don't get eating disorders and depression, they don't get objectified or ridiculed by women if they don't look like the men in the media, even if it's because they work around the clock and barely have the energy to clean the house and make themselves food, let alone go to the gym.

People don't walk past a male being physically assaulted in the street because he can deal with it himself (ditto bereavement, ditto torment in school, ditto everything down to changing a wheel on your car). People don't assume a man will just automatically be willing to die if a war happens. People don't expect him to be financially liable for everyone in his family, never dare to suggest his adult female dependents either get a job or else contribute to chores (that would be sexist), and never complain.

Men don't get abused by their partners, men aren't living in life-long, loveless marriages of indentured servitude in their millions, and they definitely aren't still expected to conform to the "breadwinner" half of the 1950s role-specialisation model of parenting for their whole lives, when that shizzle is seen as barbaric to expect of women.

Best of all, people don't point and laugh at men when they fail, or judge them to be a very bad person for showing normal human weakness.

Nothing bad ever happens to men, they have no feelings, and *that* is why it's objectification when it happens to women, but yet more unfair awesome stuff if it happens to men.

I don't know what people you hang out with - but I'd say it was time to seek out new friends.

[Seena]

neppakyo wrote...

Gothy wrote...
Best of all, people don't point and laugh at men when they fail

I point and laugh at anyone who fails, regardless of their age, sex, or gender. This also applies to people falling down.

What do you do when somone fails and THEN falls down?

[Gotholhorakh]

Seena wrote...

I don't know what people you hang out with - but I'd say it was time to seek out new friends.

Heh, well luckily for me, my life is reasonably good and balanced, and what friends I have are great.

It's more observation than biog

[neppakyo]

Seena wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Gothy wrote...
Best of all, people don't point and laugh at men when they fail

I point and laugh at anyone who fails, regardless of their age, sex, or gender. This also applies to people falling down.

What do you do when somone fails and THEN falls down?

I Still point and laugh, but I laugh harder. Also, I get others to point and laugh, to enjoy the scene better.

Then I kick a puppy for good measure.

[Gotholhorakh]

neppakyo wrote...

Seena wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Gothy wrote...
Best of all, people don't point and laugh at men when they fail

I point and laugh at anyone who fails, regardless of their age, sex, or gender. This also applies to people falling down.

What do you do when somone fails and THEN falls down?

I Still point and laugh, but I laugh harder. Also, I get others to point and laugh, to enjoy the scene better.

Then I kick a puppy for good measure.

That had better be a male puppy or people are going to be mad, hehe

[Seena]

neppakyo wrote...

Seena wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Gothy wrote...
Best of all, people don't point and laugh at men when they fail

I point and laugh at anyone who fails, regardless of their age, sex, or gender. This also applies to people falling down.

What do you do when somone fails and THEN falls down?

I Still point and laugh, but I laugh harder. Also, I get others to point and laugh, to enjoy the scene better.

Then I kick a puppy for good measure.

They say laughter is contagious - is puppy kicking?

[Kajan451]

Seena wrote...

Trust me- Sweden/Scandinavia - hell most of  Europe in general IS 100 years ahead of the US when it comes to women's issues/sex/ and keeping religion out of politics,,,,

That list could be added to in so many aspects, its not even funny. But the US is after all still a very young nation founded on hardliner Christian believes which wouldn't be tollerated in the "old world". It has shaped the selfimage of the US for a long time to come.

Summarum wrote...

If telling women what they should be like is oppression then telling men what they should be like is categorically also oppression, never mind your "you must take these steps first" nonsense.

Except its okay to tell men what they must do to be "good men", because as in all things, when an oppressed party is finally regaining their "equality"... they start to their own "oppression" because its just "just" for them to do so. After all now its their turn.

Thus a man can't speak out of turn to a woman and tell her what she should be to be a good woman, but likewise a woman can tell a man all day long what he would need to do to be a good man. The first one is sexist, the later is an indepenedent woman telling a man what she wants, because she is all independent and knows what she wants. Its the way things are. The oppressed party excising their rights to be "rid of oppression", while the once "oppressing party" is cowed into submission by being afraid to to deny the once opressed people something.

[neppakyo]

@gothy

I kick male and female puppies equally.

@seena

It is contagious!

[Seena]

Kajan451 wrote...


[Thus a man can't speak out of turn to a woman and tell her what she should be to be a good woman, but likewise a woman can tell a man all day long what he would need to do to be a good man. The first one is sexist, the later is an indepenedent woman telling a man what she wants, because she is all independent and knows what she wants. Its the way things are. The oppressed party excising their rights to be "rid of oppression", while the once "oppressing party" is cowed into submission by being afraid to to deny the once opressed people something.

You guys seriously need to get out and meet some new women. 

Modifié par Seena, 26 avril 2011 - 01:28 .

[Seena]

neppakyo wrote...

@gothy

I kick male and female puppies equally.

@seena

It is contagious!

Line those suckers up then!

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Kajan, thanks for lighting up my day. That was quite the laugh.

Seena, how's this for a t-shirt design?

http://cache.wists.c...e3ac75fab15-med

Modifié par mrcrusty, 26 avril 2011 - 01:39 .

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Seena wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...


Yes, it is.  You should be thinking about Niklas Lidstrom instead.

In fact, if Lidstrom were offered as a LI, I might not have been so put off by the idea of unsolicited homosexual overtures from the NPC's.

So who do we think about in order to not be put off by the unsolicited sexual overtures from the opposite sex NPCs?

Niklas Lidstrom. 

[neppakyo]

mrcrusty wrote...

Kajan, thanks for lighting up my day. That was quite the laugh.

Seena, how's this for a t-shirt design?

http://cache.wists.c...e3ac75fab15-med

You mean you haven't overclocked your toaster? Noob.

*lines up the puppies for kicking* There ya go Seena.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Well first you must be the change you want to see in the world. Then you must recognize that public and/or popular percetion of what is acceptable is not the same as what is acceptable.

Ah, so there is an objective standard out there for what is acceptable? 

[the_one_54321]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...
Ah, so there is an objective standard out there for what is acceptable? 

There is an equal standard that is acceptable.

[the_one_54321]

Kajan451 wrote...
But the US is after all still a very young nation founded on hardliner Christian believes which wouldn't be tollerated in the "old world". It has shaped the selfimage of the US for a long time to come.

Wow, no. I know it's the hip new trend to bash on the USA these days, but at least get your facts straight while you're doing it.

The colony was innitially founded by puritans and protestants that objected to the formation of the Church of England. When it was still considered a territory of England. (and also of France and of Spain, and som parts even of Russia) 

The nation was formed by revolutionaries who wanted political and religious freedoms guaranteed to them.

And it also bears noting that most of the governments currently existing in the "free world" are based off the model that the birth of the USA put forward.


Please do not judge the entire nation based on the actions of a few very loud very crazy, hateful, and biggoted people. A lot of us are not like that at all. Enough of us, even, to be able to elect a black president.

[In Exile]

the_one_54321 wrote...
And it also bears noting that most of the governments currently existing in the "free world" are based off the model that the birth of the USA put forward.

Which came from the British and French philosophers. Not going to comment on the thread, but the idea of a republic didn't develop in America and most governments are actually parliamentary democracies, so the US congress is pretty unique.

[Dokarqt]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Please do not judge the entire nation based on the actions of a few very loud very crazy, hateful, and biggoted people. A lot of us are not like that at all. Enough of us, even, to be able to elect a black president.

Tell me, would Obama be president if he was a self-proclaimed atheist?

[Dokarqt]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Niklas Lidstrom. 

*Lidström

[whykikyouwhy]

Dokarqt wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Please do not judge the entire nation based on the actions of a few very loud very crazy, hateful, and biggoted people. A lot of us are not like that at all. Enough of us, even, to be able to elect a black president.

Tell me, would Obama be president if he was a self-proclaimed atheist?

I've found that many Americans have a need to know the religious leanings of their political leaders. I think a lot of people want to know that the individuals they put in office will represent them across all fronts, and we lump faith into that, though faith should probably be left as a private/personal matter. When Kennedy was running for president, there was a great outcry because he was Catholic - the fear being that if he were in the White House, the Vatican would somehow be able to wield power in the country. We continue to struggle with the separation of church and state here, and it's probably due to many factors unfortunately.

But...that can be cause for a broad and contentious debate in and of itself. 

[Seena]

neppakyo wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

Kajan, thanks for lighting up my day. That was quite the laugh.

Seena, how's this for a t-shirt design?

http://cache.wists.c...e3ac75fab15-med

You mean you haven't overclocked your toaster? Noob.

*lines up the puppies for kicking* There ya go Seena.

You guys are the BEST! ---  (starts kicking puppies.... there's the sound of soft thumps and whines).....  

Erm I don't have a toaster though.  Will a toaster oven do? 

And can I get that in a medium?

Modifié par Seena, 26 avril 2011 - 12:20 .

[Seena]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Seena wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...


Yes, it is.  You should be thinking about Niklas Lidstrom instead.

In fact, if Lidstrom were offered as a LI, I might not have been so put off by the idea of unsolicited homosexual overtures from the NPC's.

So who do we think about in order to not be put off by the unsolicited sexual overtures from the opposite sex NPCs?

Niklas Lidstrom. 

Ya lost me on that one. 

[Seena]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Please do not judge the entire nation based on the actions of a few very loud very crazy, hateful, and biggoted people. A lot of us are not like that at all. Enough of us, even, to be able to elect a black president.

You mean - a bi-racial president.  A Christian bi-racial president.  A married with two children straight Christian bi-racial president.


edit:  Who quit smoking.

Modifié par Seena, 26 avril 2011 - 12:33 .