96 réponses à ce sujet

[lazuli]

Dave666 wrote...

Preston Watamaniuk wrote...

 The multiple evolved choices has really allowed for you to build your character and squad the way you want them to play.  I really liked Carnage as well.  Eric did not want to add in a whole new power for it but the solution he came up with is even better.  The entire game play team has really amazed me on this project.  The jump in quality for combat overall is pretty substantial.

The question is, will evolutions count?  What I mean by that is for example in ME:2 is choosing Heavy Pull ever a better choice than Area Pull?  The Area version does everything that the Heavy one does and affects multiple enemies.

Branching evolution paths for powers have been discussed somewhat, right?  Maybe the admittedly lackluster Heavy Pull will lead the way into more tempting evolutions.

[TheKillerAngel]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

outlaw1109 wrote...

I wrote...
Personally liked the skills in ME1.

I should have specified that the system wasn't broken, just the use of said system. They could have implemented it much better, but compared to the skill system in ME2, I find it much more realistic to have to hone weapon skills as I go over being completely professional at each weapon I carry from the start. I also enjoyed playing through as different classes as it presented a variety of different skills to try my hand at developing. And, for some reason, despite the obvious design flaws with the ME1 skill system, I still managed to die more on my first playthrough of ME1 than that of my first ME2 playthrough, so Overpowered or not, I still found ME1 to be more challenging than ME2.

I would honestly prefer a system that developed skills based off of how much you use them, but, that, again is merely an opinion.

Problem with this logic: Shepard is SPECIAL FORCES, and therefore should be competent with the weapons from the get-go (i.e.Today's Navy SEALs have a 10% graduation rate just because of the rigorous physical and psychological training involved.). Weapon control is important, especially for hostage situations. I wouldn't have had a problem with ME1's skills if Shepard's an FNG that just got out of boot camp.

This is so true. I have a hard time believing any Alliance military personnel would not be trained in how to use an assault rifle (Hello, basic training), much less one at N7.

[Dave666]

lazuli wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Preston Watamaniuk wrote...

 The multiple evolved choices has really allowed for you to build your character and squad the way you want them to play.  I really liked Carnage as well.  Eric did not want to add in a whole new power for it but the solution he came up with is even better.  The entire game play team has really amazed me on this project.  The jump in quality for combat overall is pretty substantial.

The question is, will evolutions count?  What I mean by that is for example in ME:2 is choosing Heavy Pull ever a better choice than Area Pull?  The Area version does everything that the Heavy one does and affects multiple enemies.

Branching evolution paths for powers have been discussed somewhat, right?  Maybe the admittedly lackluster Heavy Pull will lead the way into more tempting evolutions.

One may certainly hope.  Still given that this is a topic about Powers, my chiming in when I know that a dev is reading hurts nobody and might even do some good.  Theres always the outside chance that while focusing on many areas during development a single area might get overlooked and one of us mentioning it might just jog their memories to prevent this.  I personally would like ability evolutions to be much more viable in ME:3 so that we don't end up with ME:2's Area version is almost always the better choice, because then it becomes no choice at all unless you want to deliberately make the game harder for yourself.

[lazuli]

Dave666 wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Branching evolution paths for powers have been discussed somewhat, right?  Maybe the admittedly lackluster Heavy Pull will lead the way into more tempting evolutions.

One may certainly hope.  Still given that this is a topic about Powers, my chiming in when I know that a dev is reading hurts nobody and might even do some good.  Theres always the outside chance that while focusing on many areas during development a single area might get overlooked and one of us mentioning it might just jog their memories to prevent this.  I personally would like ability evolutions to be much more viable in ME:3 so that we don't end up with ME:2's Area version is almost always the better choice, because then it becomes no choice at all unless you want to deliberately make the game harder for yourself.

Oh, it wasn't my intention to silence you.  I find Heavy Pull useless when compared to Pull Field as well.  It would be nice if every evolution of every power were viable or otherwise desirable, on all difficulty levels.

[Memphis Slim]

What Darkstar Aurora said. I thought the ME2 characters were much more unique as well; I typically used all of them based on utility for the kind of enemies I would face.

[MarchWaltz]

Preston Watamaniuk wrote...

 The multiple evolved choices has really allowed for you to build your character and squad the way you want them to play.  I really liked Carnage as well.  Eric did not want to add in a whole new power for it but the solution he came up with is even better.  The entire game play team has really amazed me on this project.  The jump in quality for combat overall is pretty substantial.

Whoever this "erick" is a tool. Sorry,but carnage was a very cool power.

[Dazaster Dellus]

While I don't think weapons should go back to stat based aiming I do stand firm on the powers side of it. I like where Bioware is going with the weapon customization and being able to load out with whatever you want. Let's be real. Just because you are a Biotic Adept doesn;t mean you're only going to carry around a pistol and a sub mg into battle.

On the powers side, it's as I said. There needs to be more. I'm not saying that some characters can't have a few of the same powers, but to make them almost exact copies is just lame. There should definitely be more variety. And with the extra 3-4 months they have there should be no problem brainstorming new and creative ideas for powers or for skills. Ammo Powers........seriously?! Not the best decision.

[JaegerBane]

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

While I don't think weapons should go back to stat based aiming I do stand firm on the powers side of it. I like where Bioware is going with the weapon customization and being able to load out with whatever you want. Let's be real. Just because you are a Biotic Adept doesn;t mean you're only going to carry around a pistol and a sub mg into battle.

This was definitely one of the sillier things in ME2. Assault Rifles were treated like specialist weapons, for some reason.

On the powers side, it's as I said. There needs to be more. I'm not saying that some characters can't have a few of the same powers, but to make them almost exact copies is just lame. There should definitely be more variety. And with the extra 3-4 months they have there should be no problem brainstorming new and creative ideas for powers or for skills. Ammo Powers........seriously?! Not the best decision.

I think this mostly stemming from the fact that Bioware went a bit too far with balancing biotics in ME2. You mention things like tidal waves and crushing forces which are actually already there in the game - it's just that Bioware went way overboard and made it so defences actually cancelled out biotics rather than weaken their impact.

I don't particularly want a return to ME1's era where a single button press wiped out a whole squad, but at the same time, it defeats the object of being a biotic if all your powers do is knock someone off balance for a bit, like that addled Volus on Illium. I's prefer a compromise between the two extremes.

[Da Mecca]

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

While I don't think weapons should go back to stat based aiming I do stand firm on the powers side of it. I like where Bioware is going with the weapon customization and being able to load out with whatever you want. Let's be real. Just because you are a Biotic Adept doesn;t mean you're only going to carry around a pistol and a sub mg into battle.

On the powers side, it's as I said. There needs to be more. I'm not saying that some characters can't have a few of the same powers, but to make them almost exact copies is just lame. There should definitely be more variety. And with the extra 3-4 months they have there should be no problem brainstorming new and creative ideas for powers or for skills. Ammo Powers........seriously?! Not the best decision.

Well every class can use every weapon now so that's been addressed.

[ramnozack]

One of my major problems with ME 2 is really the lack of any useful biotic powers for Vanguard.  They could buff shockwave damage to make it useful and remove the ability for protection to block biotics as it makes no sense lore wise and gameplay wise. Biotics were only OP in ME 1 because of the powers THEMSELVES not because they went through protection. But it would make me extremely happy if they just made ammo powers just mods for weapons again and gave each class more powers cuz god knows solider and vanguard need it terribly. That alone would make me 1 happy chicken.

Plus this man agrees with me[/url]

Modifié par ramnozack, 29 mai 2011 - 11:03 .

[Dazaster Dellus]

What would have been really great is if you could train your character in Biotics as opposed to giving them points.

Example: When you start the game or somewhere near the begining (say on the Citadel) you could have your character go into a Spectre training ground. From there you could train yourself in weapons combat and also Biotics. Depending on what you do and who you seek or don't seek in help with your training decides on what powers your character accumulates and masters. Pretty much like building your character in game as opposed to lists of stats and points. So if you want to be an Adept Biotic with a full range of powers at your disposal just complete the Biotic training for whatever moves you want. And if you want to use assault rifles and silenced pistols, etc just go to a firing range or Spectre training ground and go through it to become more skilled and advanced in those weapons or whatever weapons you want. Skill through training in other words. I really think that would have been great and it would fit seamlessly with the game.

[tjzsf]

Among the others not discussed, I would like power progression to be linear like in ME1 and not arithmetic like in ME2. Feels better to be able to put every point into something that helps, even if it's just a 2% damage increase, as opposed to ME2 where you often have points left over that are unable to be put into anything.

[ramnozack]

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

What would have been really great is if you could train your character in Biotics as opposed to giving them points.

Example: When you start the game or somewhere near the begining (say on the Citadel) you could have your character go into a Spectre training ground. From there you could train yourself in weapons combat and also Biotics. Depending on what you do and who you seek or don't seek in help with your training decides on what powers your character accumulates and masters. Pretty much like building your character in game as opposed to lists of stats and points. So if you want to be an Adept Biotic with a full range of powers at your disposal just complete the Biotic training for whatever moves you want. And if you want to use assault rifles and silenced pistols, etc just go to a firing range or Spectre training ground and go through it to become more skilled and advanced in those weapons or whatever weapons you want. Skill through training in other words. I really think that would have been great and it would fit seamlessly with the game.

I dont think that would be very great....that would kind of eliminate classes making it even less of a rpg and besides putting points in three general trees, (combat,tech,biotcs), and that it would be incredibly boring. having complex trees that u have to think out to get the most optimal build or to  build them to the way you like to play is just much better to most people imo. Gaining skill through training also sounds kinda weird. If im a biotic and i use throw enough all of a sudden i know how to do a singularity? Or if im a combat if i shoot a pistol enough suddenly i can use a sniper rifle? It wouldn't make sense. Besides Bioware already said they would make ME 3 like ME 2 cept with more evolves and more powers for each class.

[lazuli]

ramnozack wrote...

One of my major problems with ME 2 is really the lack of any useful biotic powers for Vanguard. 

lol

In all seriousness, what more do you want them to have?  Warp?  Throw?  Singularity?

[Sparrow44]

MarchWaltz wrote...

Whoever this "erick" is a tool. Sorry,but carnage was a very cool power.

Pretty much this (minus the tool part).

[Dave666]

lazuli wrote...

ramnozack wrote...

One of my major problems with ME 2 is really the lack of any useful biotic powers for Vanguard. 

lol

In all seriousness, what more do you want them to have?  Warp?  Throw?  Singularity?

Really got to agree with Lazuli here.  Vangards are supposed to be a hybrid of a Soldier and an Adept.  All classes in Mass Effect 2 are supposed to have their Signiture Power and four other powers.  The problem here is that the Vangard has two Biotic abilities (which is fine) but where's the two Combat abilities?  Ammo Powers just don't cut it.

Bioware seem to have spent a great deal of time focusing on guns and somehow the Combat abilities have slipped through the cracks and been neglected.  Hell, especially on the Soldier which is the pure Combat class. What combat abilities does it get again?  Concussive Shot( a mini version of Carnage that can be used with any weapon for some reason), thats it.  The rest are Ammo Powers.  Where's the Marksman, Assasination, Carnage, Overkill, Immunity, Adrenaline Rush (reset abilities, not Demi-God Mode)?

Had they actually remembered to sort out some Combat abilities then some of these debates wouldn't happen at all.

Modifié par Dave666, 31 mai 2011 - 11:22 .

[Parah_Salin]

Yeah, combat abilities should make a comeback. The should fill the role of personal buffs for the most part, and concussive shot should be split up back into our old weapon-based powers,

[RocketManSR2]

All I know is this, the pathetic effect biotics had on shielded targets made me a very sad panda.

[Black Raptor]

Biotics need a longer cooldown but with the ability to ignore protection.

[Asari Commando]

marshalleck wrote...

Character builds in ME2 were extremely simplified. I mean you can't even really call them builds. There's almost no substantial variation at all. I don't expect it will get much better in ME3 despite what we've read in the GI preview. I think it really goes against Bioware's new design ethos of making RPGs for the Farmville generation.

lmao rpgs for the farmville generation, ya i agree that ME2 rpg was waterred dwn to attract the masses. they concentrated alot on combat and other parts of the story. changes to upgrading your squad weapons and such (in normandy) was a very smart move, but the skill point allocation is garbage. like others said you have little to NO say in the build for your char/squadmmates, unlike ME1 where you could customize waay more. also the bullet/gun mods were much better than the method used now in my opinion :/

[AlexRmF]

JaegerBane wrote...

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

While I don't think weapons should go back to stat based aiming I do stand firm on the powers side of it. I like where Bioware is going with the weapon customization and being able to load out with whatever you want. Let's be real. Just because you are a Biotic Adept doesn;t mean you're only going to carry around a pistol and a sub mg into battle.

This was definitely one of the sillier things in ME2. Assault Rifles were treated like specialist weapons, for some reason.

On the powers side, it's as I said. There needs to be more. I'm not saying that some characters can't have a few of the same powers, but to make them almost exact copies is just lame. There should definitely be more variety. And with the extra 3-4 months they have there should be no problem brainstorming new and creative ideas for powers or for skills. Ammo Powers........seriously?! Not the best decision.

I think this mostly stemming from the fact that Bioware went a bit too far with balancing biotics in ME2. You mention things like tidal waves and crushing forces which are actually already there in the game - it's just that Bioware went way overboard and made it so defences actually cancelled out biotics rather than weaken their impact.

I don't particularly want a return to ME1's era where a single button press wiped out a whole squad, but at the same time, it defeats the object of being a biotic if all your powers do is knock someone off balance for a bit, like that addled Volus on Illium. I's prefer a compromise between the two extremes.

I agree... on my first ME2 playthrough I died a few times just because I needed to get used to the new enemy protections and the uslessness of biotic powers... no more enemies thrown in tha air by lift... that pissed me off<_<
I must say I liked the ME1 biotics system, because by the time you could lift whole platoons of enemies into the air you were already very powerful and this in itself was something to be prows of, in ME2, you could die as easily in first 2 minutes of the game, just like in the last 2 minutes and you still couldn't push a whole squad of collector drones off the ledges of the colector base (it like all enemies and squad members had the same level)