159 réponses à ce sujet

[Urdnot Orrad]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

I'm not sure why you would expect to fight the Reapers directly in the second game. The first one you found out about the Reapers, the second one you found out why they were interested in humans and what happened with the Protheans, among other things, and the 3rd is the conclusion of the Reaper threat. The 2nd game did what a 2nd part of a trilogy should do.

Obviously I wouldn't expect to fight them in ME2, but I would expect that, after the events of the first game, there would be more focus on the looming threat of them arriving as opposed to some human abductions. 

It would have made more sense to spend ME2 rallying support from council races and trying to figure out how to defend ourselves, maybe resolving the conflicts with the Krogan/Salarians and Quarians/Geth then, instead of waiting until the Reapers are actually attacking and then having to go solve everyone's problems while Earth is in the midst of being destroyed.

Thing is, they were trying to create a Reaper to be the new vanguard (or at least, that's the conclusion I have come to in regards to why the Human-Reaper core thing existed in the first place). If it had succeeded, then with the galaxy willfully ignorant of the Reaper threat, we could've had another Battle of the Citadel... and this time the Citadel defenders would have lost.

In regards to problems being solved, ME2 did partially address these issues, with Mordin's, Tali's, and Legion's Loyalty missions. No, it didn't advance much plot wise when you look at it from a "stop the Reaper threat" point of view, but think: How fun would the game be if you stopped the Reapers from appearing at all? What if ME1 had been the end of it? That wouldn't have been very fun, now, would it?

[AdmiralCheez]

You know, even if ME2 winds up being "pointless," it's still one of the most enjoyable gaming experiences I've ever had.

[Urdnot Orrad]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You know, even if ME2 winds up being "pointless," it's still one of the most enjoyable gaming experiences I've ever had.

Agreed... and it's not just because you're a girl.

[KotOREffecT]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You know, even if ME2 winds up being "pointless," it's still one of the most enjoyable gaming experiences I've ever had.

QFT.

[didymos1120]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...
Thing is, they were trying to create a Reaper to be the new vanguard (or at least, that's the conclusion I have come to in regards to why the Human-Reaper core thing existed in the first place).

Why do so many people think this?  ME2 never even implies that that was the reason.  Seriously: there is literally nothing in the game that so much as hints towards that being the case.

[Urdnot Orrad]

didymos1120 wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote...
Thing is, they were trying to create a Reaper to be the new vanguard (or at least, that's the conclusion I have come to in regards to why the Human-Reaper core thing existed in the first place).

Why do so many people think this?  ME2 never even implies that that was the reason.  Seriously: there is literally nothing in the game that so much as hints towards that being the case.

You're correct, which is why I said, it was the conclusion I reached. That is the only in-universe justification that I can think of for the Human-Reaper being built.

[Dean_the_Young]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You know, even if ME2 winds up being "pointless," it's still one of the most enjoyable gaming experiences I've ever had.

Would, perchance, the point of ME2 have been to be a fun game?


Really, though, people are just disappointed that they didn't beat the Reapers. 'Oh, I stopped something the Reapers wanted to do, but so what?' So what so what? What did beating Sovereign matter, if it didn't lock out the Reapers from the galaxy? 

[Urdnot Orrad]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You know, even if ME2 winds up being "pointless," it's still one of the most enjoyable gaming experiences I've ever had.

Would, perchance, the point of ME2 have been to be a fun game?


Really, though, people are just disappointed that they didn't beat the Reapers. 'Oh, I stopped something the Reapers wanted to do, but so what?' So what so what? What did beating Sovereign matter, if it didn't lock out the Reapers from the galaxy?

Well, it did prove the Reapers could be killed... not stopped per se, but killed. Apart from that? I agree with you.

[didymos1120]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote...
Thing is, they were trying to create a Reaper to be the new vanguard (or at least, that's the conclusion I have come to in regards to why the Human-Reaper core thing existed in the first place).

Why do so many people think this?  ME2 never even implies that that was the reason.  Seriously: there is literally nothing in the game that so much as hints towards that being the case.

You're correct, which is why I said, it was the conclusion I reached. That is the only in-universe justification that I can think of for the Human-Reaper being built.

Well, my point is, how do you reach a conclusion based on nothing?  As far as in-universe justification, why not the obvious: they thought humans were good Reaper material, and decided to see how well it actually worked in practice. I.e., they were doing R&D via the Collectors, as per usual.

[TheConfidenceMan]

Urdnot Orrad wrote..

Thing is, they were trying to create a Reaper to be the new vanguard (or at least, that's the conclusion I have come to in regards to why the Human-Reaper core thing existed in the first place). If it had succeeded, then with the galaxy willfully ignorant of the Reaper threat, we could've had another Battle of the Citadel... and this time the Citadel defenders would have lost.

In regards to problems being solved, ME2 did partially address these issues, with Mordin's, Tali's, and Legion's Loyalty missions. No, it didn't advance much plot wise when you look at it from a "stop the Reaper threat" point of view, but think: How fun would the game be if you stopped the Reapers from appearing at all? What if ME1 had been the end of it? That wouldn't have been very fun, now, would it?

I have no idea why they were building a human reaper, it appeared to have something to do with human dna or needing a new race or whatever, all I know is it was the most eye-rollingly stupid turn of events I could have imagined.

And the galaxy shouldn't have been ignorant of the reaper threat. After the events of ME1 there should have been no question. They had a good plot arc that could have comfortably spanned three games. Discover the Reaper threat --> Figure out what to do about it --> FIGHT!!!

Instead they spent the second act going off on some stupid tangent and now have to cram all this stuff into the finale.

[hc00]

didymos1120 wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote...
Thing is, they were trying to create a Reaper to be the new vanguard (or at least, that's the conclusion I have come to in regards to why the Human-Reaper core thing existed in the first place).

Why do so many people think this?  ME2 never even implies that that was the reason.  Seriously: there is literally nothing in the game that so much as hints towards that being the case.

There is nothing that points to this no, but there is also no other viable reason to start construction of a reaper without the reapers being there to provide protection and support.

I mean, without the reapers providing support, the abduction of huge numbers of a single species is of course going to attract attention, that attention will cause resistance, and eventually the failure of the mission to build a reaper, as no matter what passive defences always fail, and the collectors didnt have the manpower or resources to fight a war

Which is coincidentally exactly how it played out.

Can you think of another reason, other than a desperate attempt to create another Vanguard?

[Da Mecca]

I personally feel it was pointless. I thought the series would go as follows

ME1: Learn about the Reaper threat
ME2: Try to figure out a way to stop the reaper threat
ME3: Engage the reaper threat

Instead we get..

ME1:Learn about the reaper threat
ME2:Solve people's problems then stop a minor threat to the galaxy as a whole/major threat to humanity
ME3:Engage the Reaer threat

[TomY90]

To be honest their is no point debating this considering we do not know who is full squad members or not we could be wrong that most the ME1 and ME2 squad members are squad members in ME3.

once we know then we can criticise or not we are just guessing this

Modifié par TomY90, 24 avril 2011 - 12:27 .

[Urdnot Orrad]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote..

Thing is, they were trying to create a Reaper to be the new vanguard (or at least, that's the conclusion I have come to in regards to why the Human-Reaper core thing existed in the first place). If it had succeeded, then with the galaxy willfully ignorant of the Reaper threat, we could've had another Battle of the Citadel... and this time the Citadel defenders would have lost.

In regards to problems being solved, ME2 did partially address these issues, with Mordin's, Tali's, and Legion's Loyalty missions. No, it didn't advance much plot wise when you look at it from a "stop the Reaper threat" point of view, but think: How fun would the game be if you stopped the Reapers from appearing at all? What if ME1 had been the end of it? That wouldn't have been very fun, now, would it?

I have no idea why they were building a human reaper, it appeared to have something to do with human dna or needing a new race or whatever, all I know is it was the most eye-rollingly stupid turn of events I could have imagined.

And the galaxy shouldn't have been ignorant of the reaper threat. After the events of ME1 there should have been no question. They had a good plot arc that could have comfortably spanned three games. Discover the Reaper threat --> Figure out what to do about it --> FIGHT!!!

Instead they spent the second act going off on some stupid tangent and now have to cram all this stuff into the finale.

Perhaps, but instead of writing them off, why not show a little faith and say to yourself: "Maybe the company that gave me this story arc actually knows what they're doing better than I know?"

Tell me, what exactly makes you think you could make a better story than the people that made these games?

In addition, I said willfully ignorant. The galaxy didn't want to believe the Reapers existed... that is pointed out in the game more times than I can count, and if you didn't see that... Ugh, I'm not even going to say it, because it would start a flame war.

As for the Human-Reaper thing, why exactly was it so stupid? I never had a problem with it, a lot of people never saw a problem with it-- what was so flawed about that idea?

[N7Infernox]

The day somebody proves to me that The Empire Strikes Back was pointless is the day that I believe that ME2 was poilntless as well.

I mean...just because the series didn't go like you expected, it doesn't mean that ME2's events are less than significant.

Modifié par N7Infernox, 24 avril 2011 - 12:26 .

[CitizenSnips]

It's hinted at throughout the series that the original rachni were indoctrinated by the reapers. If that is the case, it would be safe to assume that the reapers have access to rachni DNA or a spare queen.

[Urdnot Orrad]

N7Infernox wrote...

The day somebody proves to me that The Empire Strikes Back was pointless is the day that I believe that ME2 was poilntless as well.

I mean...just because the series didn't go like you expected, it doesn't mean that ME2's events are less than significant.

^This. Being a major Star Wars geek and ME fan, I agree wholeheartedly.

[Tesla17]

I feel sorry for the horse. Sure it's dead, but it's still disgusting. How would you guys feel if you were the spirit of a dead horse and people kept beating you? Answer that honestly. It is sickening.

[hc00]

Tesla17 wrote...

I feel sorry for the horse. Sure it's dead, but it's still disgusting. How would you guys feel if you were the spirit of a dead horse and people kept beating you? Answer that honestly. It is sickening.

If I was a dead horse I would be incapable of feeling anything about what was happening to my corpse.

Whats your point?

[Urdnot Orrad]

Tesla17 wrote...

I feel sorry for the horse. Sure it's dead, but it's still disgusting. How would you guys feel if you were the spirit of a dead horse and people kept beating you? Answer that honestly. It is sickening.

For a moment, I thought you were trolling. Then I put the comment together, and thought: "Oh, THAT makes sense. Meh, he's right."

[RAF1940]

I think we'd really need to play ME3 first to call it pointless, but it jsut seemed like a game full of side quests.

[didymos1120]

hc00 wrote...

Tesla17 wrote...

I feel sorry for the horse. Sure it's dead, but it's still disgusting. How would you guys feel if you were the spirit of a dead horse and people kept beating you? Answer that honestly. It is sickening.

If I was a dead horse I would be incapable of feeling anything about what was happening to my corpse.

Whats your point?

That you're beating a dead horse.  What else did you think the point was?

[hc00]

didymos1120 wrote...

That you're beating a dead horse.  What else did you think the point was?

Did my sarcasm go over your head, or did your's go over mine

[Bluko]

I warned you! I warned you! But did you listen to me? Ah no didn't you. No my awesome ME2 team is going to be in ME3 no matter what! Ah ha ha ha ha!

There are some who call me... Tim?


Okay sorry for my sociopath sense of humor, but for real:


Look it was never implied that ME2 was about creating a permanent new crew for Shepard. Basically all you did was get a bunch of random and albeit amazing individuals to help you with this crazy mission that involved these aliens the Collectors. No one swore oaths to Shepard to help them fight the Reapers to the bitter end. It is exactly the same as what happened with the ME1 crew. Garrus, Wrex, Liara, Tali all only really joined Shepard to stop Saren.

Frankly I'm just happy to see that some (and it seems mostly ME1) characters return. And I look forward to meeting some new and interesting individuals. Also hopefully ones that don't have parental issues that need Counselor Shepard help.

Really ME3 is turning out pretty much like I had anticipated.

Yes ME2's main plot is kind of let down, since it seems to be little more then a catalyst for a bunch of otherwise chance encounters and happenings. Really the main story of The Reapers is touched on very little, when really ME2 should have been learning all about The Reapers . Now ME3 not only has to provide almost all the exposition for the Reapers, it also has incorporate the solution to the problem. True perhaps learning what the Reapers are, is what does them in.

That's not to say ME2 was bad, but yes there's a reason some of us have founnd ME2 a little unfilling in certain regards. Especially after playing ME1.

Just hope it all makes sense in the end.

[didymos1120]

hc00 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

That you're beating a dead horse.  What else did you think the point was?

Did my sarcasm go over your head, or did your's go over mine

Next time, use a smiley or something, damn it. <_<