604 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

android654 wrote...

You guys do realize its fiction right?

No, really?  Next you'll be telling me Santa isn't real either.

[android654]

Well, they fought all the battles and everyone survived, so its not as critical as you think. Also, don't you think the fact that Zaeed/Shep are soldiers, Garrus is a vigilante/cop/from a militaristic society, Grunt is a warrior/from a militaristic people has something to do with them having to wear armor?

I think its been made pretty clear that each character's personality and history influence their appearance and attitude. Kasumi is an infamous thief with a hidden identity, so she wears a hood to cover her face.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

android654 wrote...

Miranda looked horrible in Miranda's armor, not to mention her visor...

You guys do realize its fiction right? She can get away without wearing a spacesuit.

Nobody's saying (or at least, almost nobody) that she shouldn't wear whatever the heck she wants most of the time. Hell, I LOVE the fact that she's wearing something that resembles normal clothes most of the time, (for certain values of normal clothes. Shut up.)

But needing to have something covered when you're somewhere where the atmosphere is actively poisonous, or where there's no air pressure? Yes it's science fiction, but for me "exposed skin depressurizes in space" is right up there with "people will bleed if you cut them" and "people need to eat food" as things that need to be specifically explained if they aren't true. It's pretty much true in all science fiction variations, no matter how ridiculous... you need to get to something as ridiculous and non-realistic as  "Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius" to find a universe where it isn't taken as read.

Sure there are some ways to play with it... like Jokers' little energy field breather mask from the beginning of ME2. I'm also ok if they "cheat" it in certain circumstances. But standing out in a low atmosphere world for twenty minutes? Or walking straight under the Haestrom sun? Those things should require protection of some kind. I agree that Jack should only need this stuff in the 20% (or whatever) of missions where it's relevant, but it bugs me then. For now, I just... don't take her on those, but I'd like to be able to. (I also didn't take Thane with me on those missions at first either, until I got his suit that doesn't have the gorram chest window)

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 25 avril 2011 - 11:42 .

[didymos1120]

android654 wrote...

Well, they fought all the battles and everyone survived, so its not as critical as you think.

Right, because gameplay is the best source of lore-revealing data.

[Elite Midget]

android654 wrote...

Well, they fought all the battles and everyone survived, so its not as critical as you think. Also, don't you think the fact that Zaeed/Shep are soldiers, Garrus is a vigilante/cop/from a militaristic society, Grunt is a warrior/from a militaristic people has something to do with them having to wear armor?

I think its been made pretty clear that each character's personality and history influence their appearance and attitude. Kasumi is an infamous thief with a hidden identity, so she wears a hood to cover her face.

The only reason they didn't die after their Biotic Shields went down was because Bioware handwaved that out. It doesn't make it any less STUPID for them to run into battle without armor since you 'can't' keep your Biotic Shields up 24/7. Gameplay and plot events have proved this as a fact. Thus it makes ZERO sense for them not to wear armor.

Kai Leng is an assassin and he wears more armor than more than half of the ME2 Cast put together.

[android654]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

android654 wrote...

Miranda looked horrible in Miranda's armor, not to mention her visor...

You guys do realize its fiction right? She can get away without wearing a spacesuit.

Nobody's saying (or at least, almost nobody) that she shouldn't wear whatever the heck she wants most of the time. Hell, I LOVE the fact that she's wearing something that resembles normal clothes most of the time, (for certain values of normal clothes. Shut up.)

But needing to have something covered when you're somewhere where the atmosphere is actively poisonous, or where there's no air pressure? Yes it's science fiction, but for me "exposed skin depressurizes in space" is right up there with "people will bleed if you cut them" and "people need to eat food" as things that need to be specifically explained if they aren't true. It's pretty much true in all science fiction variations, no matter how ridiculous... you need to get to something as ridiculous and non-realistic as  "Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius" to find a universe where it isn't taken as read.

Sure there are some ways to play with it... like Jokers' little energy field breather mask from the beginning of ME2. I'm also ok if they "cheat" it in certain circumstances. But standing out in a low atmosphere world for twenty minutes? Or walking straight under the Haestrom sun? Those things should require protection of some kind. I agree that Jack should only need this stuff in the 20% (or whatever) of missions where it's relevant, but it bugs me then. For now, I just... don't take her on those, but I'd like to be able to. (I also didn't take Thane with me on those missions at first either, until I got his suit that doesn't have the gorram chest window)

But Jack's supposed to be the most powerful human biotic to date, right? So there's no way a biotic barrier can be as powerful as N7 armor, you know that top quality stuff that broke off of Shepard and he/she didn't even notice. Also Samara's a rather powerful biotic, but she seems to be just as safe as Jack, and I'm betting Jack's more powerful than her.

[android654]

Elite Midget wrote...

android654 wrote...

Well, they fought all the battles and everyone survived, so its not as critical as you think. Also, don't you think the fact that Zaeed/Shep are soldiers, Garrus is a vigilante/cop/from a militaristic society, Grunt is a warrior/from a militaristic people has something to do with them having to wear armor?

I think its been made pretty clear that each character's personality and history influence their appearance and attitude. Kasumi is an infamous thief with a hidden identity, so she wears a hood to cover her face.

The only reason they didn't die after their Biotic Shields went down was because Bioware handwaved that out. It doesn't make it any less STUPID for them to run into battle without armor since you 'can't' keep your Biotic Shields up 24/7. Gameplay and plot events have proved this as a fact. Thus it makes ZERO sense for them not to wear armor.

Kai Leng is an assassin and he wears more armor than more than half of the ME2 Cast put together.

Isn't Leng a washed up soldier turned Merc? Like Zaeed? not very professional sounding like Thane or Mordin who do stealthy covert things, and they seem to keep their attire relatively simple. 

[didymos1120]

android654 wrote...

But Jack's supposed to be the most powerful human biotic to date, right?

So what?  Unless she's absolutely perfect at stopping every functionally-invisible-to-the-naked-eye-projectile dead in its tracks, she's a goner without armour.  That's just how it works in ME-land.

[Elite Midget]

He's the best Cerberus Agent in existance and acts the role of assassin. He stays in the shadows yet he has more armor than you would think possible consider 'front lines' Jacpob wears a skintight suit or 'biotic babes' wearing nothing but oversexualized outfits.

It's like Miranda, Jack, and Samara weren't there to fight but instead getting ready for a cheap space orgy porno with Shepard.

[didymos1120]

android654 wrote...

Isn't Leng a washed up soldier turned Merc? Like Zaeed? not very professional sounding like Thane or Mordin who do stealthy covert things, and they seem to keep their attire relatively simple. 

No, he's a former N7 operative who's anything but "washed up".

[didymos1120]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
 Yes it's science fiction, but for me "exposed skin depressurizes in space" is right up there with "people will bleed if you cut them" and "people need to eat food" as things that need to be specifically explained if they aren't true.

OK, actually, the pressure differential isn't that big compared to normal conditions for a human, nor are the effects of that differential instantaneous.  Or particularly dramatic. You won't suddenly swell like Violet Beauregard or burst like rotten fruit, or even leak a single drop of blood. Skin is much tougher than that. Nor will you suddenly freeze, for that matter.  The only significant, immediate dangers of vacuum are lack of oxygen and respiratory damage should you be foolish enough to try holding your breath.  Not that you can tolerate it for very long, but the actual effects have been way overexaggerated in fiction.

[android654]

didymos1120 wrote...

android654 wrote...

But Jack's supposed to be the most powerful human biotic to date, right?

So what?  Unless she's absolutely perfect at stopping every functionally-invisible-to-the-naked-eye-projectile dead in its tracks, she's a goner without armour.  That's just how it works in ME-land.

So then how do you explain Miranda, Jacob, Samara? Hell how do you account for anyone in armor without a helmet? That's literally everyone except for Tali. If you'd like to see that god awful power ranger esque Halo with Turians, good luck to ya. I think it's a bad move to have a uniformed look for so many different characters. Only 2 members of ME3 are soldiers, and neither one is in the service any longer, putting everyone in armor seems ridiculous. Also with so many strong personalities on the ship... I think they'd have decided if armor was a necessity when joining on a suicide mission, especially since it isn't new to most of them.

Now if we're merely talking about something to keep them alive while doing a space walk to repair the belly of the Normandy (or something akin to that) I can "get" that. But still a bulky duplo block suit on Jack, Mordin, Thane, or Samara would look clownish.

[android654]

Elite Midget wrote...

He's the best Cerberus Agent in existance and acts the role of assassin. He stays in the shadows yet he has more armor than you would think possible consider 'front lines' Jacpob wears a skintight suit or 'biotic babes' wearing nothing but oversexualized outfits.

It's like Miranda, Jack, and Samara weren't there to fight but instead getting ready for a cheap space orgy porno with Shepard.

Jack's outfits are sexualized? Really? Jacob's clothes are way more form fitting than anything Jack has.

Also, clothes reall do "make the man" in this situation. Samara and Miranda just ooze a coquettish personality, which feeds an image of sexualization. Jack has no such thing in her appearance or personality.

Modifié par android654, 26 avril 2011 - 12:08 .

[bandfred]

All I want is:
a) an actual shirt for casual wear; no belt-bra or latex tank top
unique armor for battle wear
c) less crazy and nicer

Modifié par bandfred, 26 avril 2011 - 12:11 .

[Phaedon]

android654 wrote...
Jack's outfits are sexualized? Really? Jacob's clothes are way more form fitting than anything Jack has. 

Also, clothes reall do "make the man" in this situation. Samara and Miranda just ooze a coquettish personality, which feeds an image of sexualization. Jack has no such thing in her appearance or personality.

Eh, Jacob is a bad example.

In fact, Jacob is as bad if not worse than Miranda, imo.

Anyway, I never had Jack as an LI, but I recognize her as one of the deeper characters of the game.
A more mature version of her punk rock style would be great, but I don't want her to lose it completely. It's a part of her. 

Jack will return in ME3, and it's difficult to make people who hated her like her now. So, if anything, cater to her fans. Keep her style, but fix it. Rock is nice, but it doesn't mean that she should be half-naked.

Modifié par Phaedon, 26 avril 2011 - 12:15 .

[android654]

Nipple straps should never be removed... never. 

bandfred wrote...
All I want is:
c) less crazy and nicer

Why do so many people have a problem with her personality? She's fine the way she is, not to mention, that many people in such a small space, not everyone is gonna want to be your pal. Besides, she's plenty nice already.

[habitat 67]

Why are there no arguments about how Anders is supposed to deflect projectiles and Mabari bites with his velvet bathrobe? This still seems like a redundant issue.

Also, most of the planets visited and walked on are not atmospherically extreme. If the crew visited a Volus world, it's likely that pressurized suits would be worn. Extreme atmosphere are the planets you only orbit and mine.

[android654]

Phaedon wrote...

android654 wrote...
Jack's outfits are sexualized? Really? Jacob's clothes are way more form fitting than anything Jack has. 

Also, clothes reall do "make the man" in this situation. Samara and Miranda just ooze a coquettish personality, which feeds an image of sexualization. Jack has no such thing in her appearance or personality.

Eh, Jacob is a bad example.

In fact, Jacob is as bad if not worse than Miranda, imo.

Anyway, I never had Jack as an LI, but I recognize her as one of the deeper characters of the game.
A more mature version of her punk rock style would be great, but I don't want her to lose it completely. It's a part of her. 

Jack will return in ME3, and it's difficult to make people who hated her like her now. So, if anything, cater to her fans. Keep her style, but fix it. Rock is nice, but it doesn't mean that she should be half-naked.

She isn't. Her first suit covers at least 52% of her. Besides, she's got two others that are more appeasing to the modest or repressed. Then again the two words are practically interchangeable.

Modifié par android654, 26 avril 2011 - 12:21 .

[true heterosexual]

jack is a **** satanic

[didymos1120]

android654 wrote...

She isn't. Her first suit covers at least 52% of her. Besides, she's got two others that are more appeasing to the modest or repressed. Then again the two words are practically interchangeable.

Ah, and now we're resorting to insults instead of actual points.  Very nice.

[android654]

didymos1120 wrote...

android654 wrote...

She isn't. Her first suit covers at least 52% of her. Besides, she's got two others that are more appeasing to the modest or repressed. Then again the two words are practically interchangeable.

Ah, and now we're resorting to insults instead of actual points.  Very nice.

It was a joke. That's why it sounds like one. Don't take everything so seriously, you'll get an ulsur.

[The Narrator]

did i already say no?

maybe but still.

NO.

[SarunasAndSoOn]

ok so if you guys want to talk about armor specifications, realism of armor, should the characters wear armor,regardless of how much it takes away from their character etc. etc. please make an armor thread.

but anyway, i would like to see jack with a face tattoo, something to symbolize her survival of the suicide mission, or her getting over her past. this way we actually know what the tattoo means.

[Malanek]

Jack was one of the best written and most interesting characters in ME2. She shouldn't be sanitised too much, but at the same time some growth and development would be great. I'm not so sure about changing her appearance, I thought the outfit that becomes unlocked once she becomes loyal was pretty much spot on. I'm 50/50 on her hair, she needs to move on from her previous life but not change who she is and I'm undecided where her hair fits into that. Perhaps making her less hate filled and more focused on making something constructive of her life (ie not wanting to go into piracy) would be good.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

didymos1120 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
 Yes it's science fiction, but for me "exposed skin depressurizes in space" is right up there with "people will bleed if you cut them" and "people need to eat food" as things that need to be specifically explained if they aren't true.

OK, actually, the pressure differential isn't that big compared to normal conditions for a human, nor are the effects of that differential instantaneous.  Or particularly dramatic. You won't suddenly swell like Violet Beauregard or burst like rotten fruit, or even leak a single drop of blood. Skin is much tougher than that. Nor will you suddenly freeze, for that matter.  The only significant, immediate dangers of vacuum are lack of oxygen and respiratory damage should you be foolish enough to try holding your breath.  Not that you can tolerate it for very long, but the actual effects have been way overexaggerated in fiction.

True, but if you stand outside on non-terraformed Mars for more than ten minutes, you're going to be pretty messed up. Right? I wasn't trying to indicate "instant explodey," more "horrible medical damage after several minutes." I believe it has something to do with the water in your tissues turning to vapor at low pressures, and then other badness. I think you can survive for maybe two minutes on Mars with exposed skin, if that, and then you'd still be pretty messed up. I do appreciate the clarification, though. I also can't find a reliable seeming cite for the whole "On mars, with a breather but without a spacesuit" figures. And Mars is not that bad, planetwise, I can see you having to go to much worse places.