412 réponses à ce sujet

[Eshaye]

Radahldo wrote...

And, also, you indicated to the Batarian on omega who i think has a sexist remark for you as  'brilliant'? Dont you realize the trend of many npcs who recognize sheps sex, just saying something sexist? Was harkin brillant in me1 Why is there no complaint about that anywhere in the op?

Hmmmm sorry but a strong capable woman who can kick a*s is also perfectly able to close her legs while sitting in a dress. How is that diminishing her in any way?

Calling for Femshep to get her own feminine animations isn't asking for her to strut around like a slu*t or act like Miranda (as much as I like Miri...) she should still exude that power and confidence but equalling her to a jock and reducing her to use the same animations as male Shepard is lazy and affirms that Femshep is secondary and not in need of as much attention as Sheploo, or hell most of your companions.

you misinterpreted her post. shes not saying feminity= 'sl*utting around', good job interjecting that word and attitude, and a totally needless-- and telling-- admonishment for Miranda into the conversation. 

 Sighing and sashays? Really?  I cannot believe a lot of the responses here. Why arent  the giant weapons on her back enough to convey power?

Your friend was saying of us were suggesting we wanted the existing Femshep to be deconstructed. What am I supposed to interpret that as? 
It seems like that is what people readily assume we want when we throw around the word feminity and feminine, and if that's not what she meant then I'm sorry for having offended.

I used Miranda as an example because she embodies what we don't want to see in Femshep. Do I have a particular problem with women being sexy and using it (which Miranda tells you she does) for their image? Not at all. But that's not who we know as Shepard, we can all agree on this one. 

My point stands, Femshep is derserving of her own animations and again this is supposedly tweaked in ME3, well at least for Sheploo I just hope they've taken the OP here into consideration. 

Oh yeah the sexist remarks were nice only because they pointed to her having her own gender, does this mean we support sexism and it's awesome to have it alive in our game? No, preferably they would be a better way of awknowledging Shep's gender whithout JUST these situations.

[MrGone]

I'm confused. Why is this a controversial topic?

The only thing they need to REALLY change is the stiff hair on the longer hair styles. I had a ponytailed FemShep and it bothered me to no end that her pony tail was a hunk of stiff polygons. A little hair sway wouldn't be that hard BioWare.

Other than that . . . meh.

More unique animations in general is always better, so I'm all for it, but it's not a priority or anything.

[Eshaye]

jlb524 wrote...

IMO, having 'fair' animations would entail the same amount of detail/polish to the FemShep version....tweaking the scene for her to take into account the difference in body size.  In some instances, it seems like FemShep is copy/pasted in, and things just don't fit the same with her, given height differences.

Bingo that is my main problem. Really I just want BioWare to spend the extra time to ensure Femshep's motions make sense. Also you pointed out early that even her clothing and armor is at a lower resolution and that is true. And really it's sad, hoping for more Femshep love to come in ME3. 

[Lucky Thirteen]

jlb524 wrote...

Check out this thread for clipping/animation differences between FemShep/MaleShep in LotSB.  I'm not sure why height difference means FemShep's arm goes through Liara's here but not MaleShep's, but it does happen.

I've also swapped in Female Shepard into the Jack and Miranda ME2 love scenes and there is clipping differences between the two.

Jack/FemShep ...odd kissing...arms not properly placed on shoulders.

Jack/MaleShep

Thank you.  I do see the problem there now.

So overall there just needs to be more polishing of the animations, which is true for both genders, just more so for female Shepard.

[daigakuinsei]

The animations argument is silly. Who knows what gender-typed behavior men and women will have 200 years from now.

[GunMoth]

jlb524 wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

Honestly I could care less if someone was bisexual or if character continuity was compromised to make those options available for someone else, but I think thats the whole problem with issues like this. (Including this femshep topic) we have several different types of people all playing one game, and we have to come to some sort of compromise with the rest of the Mass Effect audience. You know? ;o;

Yes...though, things like FemShep's gait or Batarian's being all sexist to her aren't optional or avoidable, while romances are.  The former are intrinsic to her character....there's no switch that controls locomotion...which is why one has to be settled on.

That's a good point. I completely agree with you on it. I suppose I am trying to be realistic about what to expect from Bioware. Or rather, maybe I'm just being short sighted because I can't comprehend how busy the developers are. Or if these clipping issues are due to laziness or deadline restrictions. Even just going out into the GD, you have people demanding things, and not all of them are in agreement. Even organized threads like this have their ups and downs. I'm happy threads like these exist, I'll take it one step at a time. The fact that bioware put bisexual/pansexual/whatever sex into DA2 is a step in the right direction. Little itty bitty baby steps. 

Interested to see how they're going to do it in ME3

Modifié par GunMoth, 09 juin 2011 - 04:35 .

[jlb524]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

So overall there just needs to be more polishing of the animations, which is true for both genders, just more so for female Shepard.

Indeed

They should seriously try avoid clipping for both, including NPCs. 

[Eshaye]

GunMoth wrote...

Which goes back to my point of armor and customization. We could avoid the body language issue if there were more features that gave us the ability to project onto shepard in other ways. I understand how your friends feel, and while I tend to slouch and spread my legs while wearing pants, you sure as hell would NEVER catch me acting like that in a dress. I squirm and get all uncomfortable. But that's beside the point since asking the devs to make shepard react differently in the clothes he/she wears is just absurd. 

It's absurd? I don't think so, if they are going to put a dress in game they might as well make sure she can sit in it. I can't budge from that one. Of course they shouldn't have to make animations for every piece of clothing she wears, but ONE more to look like Liara sitting in ME1 debriefing. 

EDIT: Apparently my complaint might as well be null just unearthed this in google: http://social.biowar...6993/72#4839895
It's funny how I can find social site stuff easier in google...

Modifié par Eshaye, 09 juin 2011 - 04:39 .

[GunMoth]

my posts are getting disjointed and sloppy. Time for bed.

[jlb524]

GunMoth wrote...
That's a good point. I completely agree with you on it. I suppose I am trying to be realistic about what to expect from Bioware. Or rather, maybe I'm just being short sighted because I can't comprehend how busy the developers are. Or if these clipping issues are due to laziness or deadline restrictions.

I would guess it's from deadline restrictions...in a perfect world, the devs have as much time as they like to make sure that all animations bugs are gone from both gender Shepards.  I imagine they put more time into the Male Shep scenes given their stats and that more people play Male Shep.  On the other hand, if there was no Fem Shep, they could put all their time into Male Shep and completely perfect his animations/avoid any clipping.  Still, FemShep players want equal polish for equal pay and they can't hardly be blamed for that.

GunMoth wrote...
Even just going out into the GD, you have people demanding things, and not all of them are in agreement. Even organized threads like this have their ups and downs. I'm happy threads like these exist, I'll take it one step at a time. The fact that bioware put bisexual/pansexual/whatever sex into DA2 is a step in the right direction. Little itty bitty baby steps. 

Interested to see how they're going to do it in ME3

I agree that baby steps are good

The forums exist, ultimately, for constructive feedback.  People will always demand things and not agree, but I guess they have to balance these things against other things...and consider what has to be done in favor of other things, especially when talking about non-optional content, which affects every gamer.

Modifié par jlb524, 09 juin 2011 - 04:45 .

[GunMoth]

Eshaye wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

Which goes back to my point of armor and customization. We could avoid the body language issue if there were more features that gave us the ability to project onto shepard in other ways. I understand how your friends feel, and while I tend to slouch and spread my legs while wearing pants, you sure as hell would NEVER catch me acting like that in a dress. I squirm and get all uncomfortable. But that's beside the point since asking the devs to make shepard react differently in the clothes he/she wears is just absurd. 

It's absurd? I don't think so, if they are going to put a dress in game they might as well make sure she can sit in it. I can't budge from that one. Of course they shouldn't have to make animations for every piece of clothing she wears, but ONE more to look like Liara sitting in ME1 debriefing. 

EDIT: Apparently my complaint might as well be null just unearthed this in google: http://social.biowar...6993/72#4839895
It's funny how I can find social site stuff easier in google...

Yes. Having different character animations for specific clothing for each individual cinematic sequence is absurd ESPECIALLY considering they are just now taking the small steps to give femshep her own animations again. I never said changing femsheps animations ENTIRELY was absurd. Just for specific pieces of clothing. 

Modifié par GunMoth, 11 juin 2011 - 09:21 .

[CrimsonNephilim]

Just stopping by to say I you Crash! <3<3<3<3<3

Thank you for making this thread

[Captain Crash]

 

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

What animations in ME1 did femShep have that maleShep did not have?

Sorry been really delayed getting back to this point.  Busy weekend.   Anyway looking at a few youtube vids I started to think is there any difference too.   Its not noticable unless you look, but she has had alot of polish and time spent adjusting her style compared to maleshep.  They may share the same initial rig, but certainly with the differences in body shape and armour you can see differences in certain movement animations between them. 

So it may be a case where she doesnt have a seperate rig.  But there is no doubt the animations are more polished for her in ME and some time was spent on her.  Especially on the walking animation.   Which again is annoying to see that a decent movement animation for her was removed in ME2.   Mind you from the looks of things Bioware rebuilt it again in ME2 and decided just to stick with the one.   Still the lack of polish in ME2 shows for many of us.

http://www.youtube.c...unMwlp8#t=6m32s

Radahldo wrote...

I also  feel its imprecise to say 'femshep community'. Not everyone who plays femshep takes part in your  club which doesnt extend past this forum.

True, maybe I should rephrase the opening.  I asked about 30 people for suggestions and help writing the OP.  Hardly a large demographic as you say.   But Bioware know only a small core visit the forums and every thread is subjective.  Especially when people show differing views.  


Oh and thanks Crimson 

[idoless24]

daigakuinsei wrote...

The animations argument is silly. Who knows what gender-typed behavior men and women will have 200 years from now.

This this this thiiiiis.

[Captain Crash]

idoless24 wrote...

daigakuinsei wrote...

The animations argument is silly. Who knows what gender-typed behavior men and women will have 200 years from now.

This this this thiiiiis.

It will be largly the same.   Humans arnt going to lose sexual dimorphism over the course of 200 years.  However thats a topic of genetics/theory/speculation thats not for this thread.

Anyway femshep has an athletic frame and clearly defined hips and her movements really dont seem to fit her figure. As said above im fine if Bioware dont change her to much.  But as long as its polished a lot better this time round.  It simply just never looked right and looked very awkward on the Normandy. Every post justifying it (who knows what behaviour looks like in the future?  I grown used to it ect)  is just excusing Bioware neglecting her movements in ME2.



EDIT:   Checking the front page, another growing thread has appeared on this exact subject.  femshep movements.  This keeps cropping up because it is simply a noticable issue:

http://social.biowar...index/7618363/1

Modifié par Captain Crash, 13 juin 2011 - 12:15 .

[Captain Crash]

Captain Crash wrote...

Radahldo wrote...

I also  feel its imprecise to say 'femshep community'. Not everyone who plays femshep takes part in your  club which doesnt extend past this forum.

True, maybe I should rephrase the opening.  I asked about 30 people for suggestions and help writing the OP.  Hardly a large demographic as you say.   But Bioware know only a small core visit the forums and every thread is subjective.  Especially when people show differing views.  

Oh and to quote myself and Radahldo I thought these two posts by Brendon were interesting just to put things into perspective.

Its all a big balancing act really.  Im sure Bioware will go the right direction.  As said, femshep is pretty much perfect.  It's just that extra polish in animations that really need to be addressed.  As the above link shows and the fact its point 1 in this thread.  There is an obvious and noticable distinction.


Brendon wrote:

"...these forums represent less than 1% of the ME players. It's an important minority, since we value a lot of the interaction we can have here... but it's still a minority."


Brendon wrote:

"...If someone enjoys the game enough to bother registering on a community forum, it already says something about how much they enjoyed the experience. I was merely trying to provide a bit of context on the "minority" thing.

It's in our interest to make sure that we're delivering something that will get our fans excited... if you guys enjoy the game, and are excited about it, it's more likely that you'll tell your friends, etc.

But at the same time, sometimes we're going to disagree. While there might be a very vocal set of folks here on the forums that think a particular way... a lot of the time, we might have access to a significant amount of data that shows the exact opposite.

In that case... which takes precedence? If you know that 30% of the total playerbase did one thing and seemed to enjoy one particular thing... but a group on the forums is saying they don't like that... which is more important? Is there a way to compromise so that we can deliver something that we think everyone will like? 
It's a hard decision... and thankfully one that I don't usually have to make."

Modifié par Captain Crash, 13 juin 2011 - 12:50 .

[kill3rpuppy]

i agree with everything i think when it come to animation and some dialouge for femshep wasn't that good, i hated talking to jacob cause it also sounded like i was flirting and that annoyed the hell out of me, as someone who only plays as femshep i would be sooo happy if biowar would take the time to make these changes. however there is one thing that i don't really mind and that is the posture and everything i am very much a tom boy so i like the way it is now if femshep started acting like a girly girl i probably wouldn't really be able to enjoy that much. also with the armor i liked it for ME2 mostly except with one downloaded armor i had it stayed the same way as it would for manshep whiched annoyed me to no end, but other then that i really rather not have it how it was in ME, going through all the different armor and weapons annoyed the heck out of me i rather they keep it the way it was with ME2 with some changes but not to many.

Modifié par kill3rpuppy, 13 juin 2011 - 01:35 .

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Agreed with OP's pointers. I have 3 completed femShep and 1 guyShep stuck in limbo in ME2. Not sure when guyShep will complete his mission.   But I always start out with a guy in the initial playthrough for RPGs, just to let him take the brunt of the first mouse run before creating the female for a smooth finish with all the bells and whistles.    After the first run with femShep, I never bother to talk to Jacob in the other rounds except to ask about upgrades and get his quest. Conversing with him is a waste of time when femShep behaves and talks in such a weird manner. I wish there are different endoffs in dialogues for her, it's irritating when a different slightly mellower response is warranted. All right for a guy marine to rap it out, brusque and brief, of course. But it doesn't sound right for her.

Anyways, hopefully BW would take note and make ME3's femShep stand apart from guyShep. There is still time afterall, for tweaking, in the right direction.  

[Abikara]

I think there should be more casual outfit options and hairstyles for femshep, love this thread by the way

[onelifecrisis]

Ah yes, "female Shepard". We have dismissed those claims.

Anyway...

Captain Crash wrote...

1. Better Animations
2. FemShep & screenshots 
3. Script and Dialogue Issues with Romances/Flirting. 
4. Hair and Textures
5. Acknowledgement of Shepard's Gender. 
6. Armour styles arn't overly sexualised, so don’t change it
7. Reduced Clipping Issues

1. I agree.
2. Whatever.
3. I agree.
4. I agree, but it sounds like they're already working on this.
5. I'm not against it, though I don't see why it's so important.
6. I agree.
7. I agree, but there are actually clipping issues on all characters, even Sheploo.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 20 juin 2011 - 02:30 .

[jamskinner]

I have a question. Is maleshep's gender ever brought up?

[daigakuinsei]

Captain Crash wrote...

idoless24 wrote...

daigakuinsei wrote...

The animations argument is silly. Who knows what gender-typed behavior men and women will have 200 years from now.

This this this thiiiiis.

It will be largly the same.   Humans arnt going to lose sexual dimorphism over the course of 200 years.  However thats a topic of genetics/theory/speculation thats not for this thread.

You're mistaking sexual dimorphism (how we look) for the mannerisms we take (how we are trained to act).

[ReinaHW]

I agree with the original post and I support the thoughts brought forward.

FamShep should have better animations, her gorilla walk in ME2 made me think of a song from the Disney Jungle Book movie - 'I want to be human too, I want to be like you oo oo' - it was a horrible animation and pretty lazy to slap on the male animations onto the female Shepard.

More marketing for Female Shepard should be shown, Hale does a great job, her efforts should be recognised in the marketing as well instead of being dismissed because she isn't male.

I hope ME3 will show considerable improvements when it comes to FemShep, and for any future RPG's from the company when it comes to the playable female choice.

[Captain Crash]

Well I edited the OP to clarify im not the voice of the whole community. Sorry about that. At the time I sent pm to a very large number of members who were all in agreement about it. I naively assumed that because of this everyone believed the same.


Anyway it seems there quite an even split of people who are seeking differences in animation style and those avoiding it. Oh and it is more then just that Garrus scene awesome, there a few clarification posts a few pages back as to why people are looking for separate animations. Or at least more polish. Your right some the shared animations work great such as the fight on LoTSB. but in other circumstances it looks really awkward. I feel im sort of going in circles now, but I dont think it would hurt gender neutrality as I already said.

But again that my opinion on the issue. From everything that has been said I am fairly sure Bioware will keep the same rig for them both in ME3. I just hope that the overall quality of movement has improved at least. Which so far looks promising.