412 réponses à ce sujet

[Fault Girl]

I agree with every point!

I really also want some light/medium armour and Kelly's hair. 

Modifié par ZombieGeisha, 24 avril 2011 - 08:13 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Great thread! Agreed on all counts.

The most important issue for me is animations, ANIMATIONS! If FemShep gets the animations she deserves (as was the case with ME1), I'm golden and satisfied. I would also very much love to see hair physics for FemShep and generally all female characters with hair in ME3, but I'm not counting on that.

Incidentally, there is another instance in ME2 where Shepard's gender is acknowledged: During Garrus' loyalty mission, when you confront Harkin and let Garrus shoot him in the leg (i.e. don't take the Paragon interrupt) and then comment with the Renegade option, FemShep will say "You're lucky. I wouldn't have shot you in the leg," which isn't the same as what ManShep says. It's not much, but it's something.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 24 avril 2011 - 08:21 .

[JeffZero]

Fixing the animations -- damn, that's on my top ten list of 'little things' I'd love to see in ME3. I definitely preferred femShep having her own and manShep having a better one, a la ME1.

[Lunatic LK47]

ZombieGeisha wrote...

I agree with every point!

I really also want some light/medium armour and Kelly's hair. 

I only liked Medium Armor in ME1, but the process of buying them is ****ing tedious. I had to rely on the Save/Reload trick more times than I could count just to get that "Onyx N7 X/Armax Predator X/Collosus X" Medium armors. That is outright not good game design.

[Tup3x]

Bioware, you have the ball now. Surprise us, make us happy!

[f1r3storm]

To stick to the point: Animations need some calibrations.

[Raizo]

TheDarkRats wrote...

One word...

Yes.

Same Here.

[Captain Crash]

diskoh wrote...

I mainly disagree with the need for separate animations. Femshep to me is a badass space marine, the last thing I need is for her to have "girly" mannerisms shoehorned in. The way she sits and walks is absolutely perfect to me.

Disagreeing with one point is a big difference to most of them.

Anyway in several instances during the OP I make it clear that she is a female soldier and marine first and foremost.  I too dont want "girly" animations. Thats not fitting, but feminine ones as I explained.   As JaerWolfe said below, there is a difference between the two.  Mass Effect 1 didnt have girly animations but femine one for her which made her look far more sleak and different to male Shepard.  She really fitted the role.   In ME2 the animations simply dont work.

JaerWolfe wrote...

ME1s female animations weren't 'girly', they were feminine. There is a difference.

Also I agree with another point on the previous page about armour varients.  While my sixth point was about sexulisation of armour styles, the unique varients are something different.   Having your nimble and agile adept wearing full blown soldier combat armour was forced upon you as well in ME2.   Having new armours that suit your Shepards playing style and class would be a welcome return as well for ME3. 

[NM7]

Nice work, Crash. I was a little surprised to see this go up last night, but you did an excellent job.

I agree with every point.

Modifié par Akari Tenshi, 24 avril 2011 - 10:17 .

[Shenzi]

Great thread Crash, thank you for taking the time to put this together.

Modifié par Shenzi, 24 avril 2011 - 11:35 .

[Thrombin]

With respect to the muscle tone, I'd probably prefer to see a more muscular build but it's not necessarily illogical for her not to have one. Given that her superior strength is primarily from cyber-enhancements, muscle doesn't have to come into it at all.

I also understand why people don't want her to look overly sexualized but, speaking personally, I don't have a problem with that

Modifié par Thrombin, 24 avril 2011 - 11:39 .

[Hyper Cutter]

Captain Crash wrote...

------------------------------------------------------------
4. Hair and Textures
------------------------------------------------------------

The term that often best describes Mass Effect hairstyles is: Plastic! This is a big issue for femShep players as her hair is often longer and doesn’t have the male marine buzz cut. The textures and lack of movement don’t really flatter her at times.

Limited choice of styles is also an issue. Currently femShep players have to turn to modding if they wish a greater variety. At minimum we would like to see all female hairstyles that exist in the game available at character creation. New and more flattering hairstyles would be a welcome addition.

While not an issue specific to femShep, an improved character creator would be a brilliant feature, even though this is the final game. Mass Effect is still attracting new fans and the current fans want something new. At the very least, we would love to see improvements to skin textures and overall polish.

I'm just going to point out that iirc female Shepards have more hairstyle options than male ones (definitely in variety, and possibly in number I've never really counted). They've got more options than "bald" and "buzz cut", for starters. Because of this, the whole "looks like plastic" thing is more noticeable on female characters than male ones.

They need to get rid of that awful lurching run animation period, too.

[Captain Crash]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

I'm just going to point out that iirc female Shepards have more hairstyle options than male ones (definitely in variety, and possibly in number I've never really counted). They've got more options than "bald" and "buzz cut", for starters. Because of this, the whole "looks like plastic" thing is more noticeable on female characters than male ones.

Your right.  Male Shep has 8 styles:  Shown here all buzz cut and short.  

Femshep has 9 Shown here All longer, apart from her shaved look.  As you say for male Shepard's it not too much of a noticable issue, but on femshep, the coarse textures and static appearance does make it an issue.  The length obviously contributes to this. Hense our request to at the very least add some polish on her hairstyles and make it look less "plastic".  

If Bioware could add some movement in there too that would be fantastic.  Running and moveing with static ponytails isnt that interesting.  After all playable character on KotOR had hair movement.  Its not something out the realms of possibility and it would make her look great.    I think this more of a wishlist idea, but I would be so pleased to see it included in ME3

Modifié par Captain Crash, 24 avril 2011 - 12:53 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Captain Crash wrote...

The femShep community has come together to create this thread to communicate and, especially, to seek the attention of BioWare with the objective of improving the femShep player’s experience. Those of us who play Commander Shepard as a female would like to offer suggestions for the final game. Additionally we have a few concerns and queries to which we would greatly appreciate a reply or confirmation. Many of these suggestions have been floating around in the forums for some time now (over a year in some cases) so we would appreciate hearing what has been accomplished from BioWare.


To the participants: Please feel to comment on these issues. Collaboration among the many femShep players improves our position. As some will doubtless find, the list below may miss a personal plus or minus to the femShep character. This is intended as a starting point and includes some of the most often-stated comments. As suggestions relating to the overall improvement of the femShep experience gain the consensus of the community, they will be added to the list.

NOTE: This is not a thread to debate the merits of manShep vs femShep. Please keep the focus on the femShep player experience. Anyone trying to incite negative reactions will be reported to a moderator who will take appropriate action.


First, it is important to state some of the reasons why so many people love playing femShep. This will give BioWare an indication why the follow up queries are important to us.

People play female Shepard for a variety of reasons. BioWare has created a truly amazing female protagonist. She has captured our imagination and, as a result, we have grown extremely fond of her. It is refreshing to see a female take the lead role and do it with style and confidence. She has not been overly sexualised as in the usual associated paradigms of the gaming industry. Shepard is a warrior and she is portrayed as such. This is a unique feature that makes playing her distinctive. Not many games can compare to Mass Effect in this.

Additionally Jennifer Hale’s voice acting helps define her many personality options and boosts our gaming experience.


"...Our goal has and will continue to be to ensure that female and male Shepard have a truly equitable experience and that no one group of people feel left out." - Jesse Houston


This is a good goal to have and is something that is certainly achievable. At times this philosophy of character equality seems to be neglected leaving femShep feeling like an afterthought. This is pervasive throughout ME2. We hope our concerns have been or will be addressed in ME3.


So, the list:


------------------------------------------------------------
1. Better Animations
------------------------------------------------------------

In Mass Effect 1 female Shepard had her own custom rig, movement style and animations. This gave her a unique look that helped set her apart from her male counterpart. She had a sleekness and style about her while continuing to look the part of a marine and a Spectre. All of this served to let the player know the developers truly cared about giving femShep players an experience equal to that of maleShep players.

In Mass Effect 2 all of those unique characteristics found in Mass Effect 1 are gone. The care that was shown with femShep in the first game is no longer evident. The developers set themselves the goal of an equal experience for both femShep and maleShep players, but largely missed the mark. A return to unique animations for femShep would be a step in the right direction.

There are several examples of how these male animations don’t work on femShep. The most blatant is the sitting animation. It is especially egregious while wearing the dress. No woman would sit like that in a dress. Even in armour, this posture doesn’t look correct.

This lack of attention to femShep became very evident with the release of Dragon Age 2. In comparison the distinct animation of Lady Hawke improves the player’s immersion into the role playing aspect of the game.

Question: I hope in DA2 the shape of the female bodies will be more realistic, that is all.
Response: They have their own rig, now. Man-shoulders and boy-hips begone - Dave Gaider


Our request to BioWare is bring back our experience from the first game. We want our female heroine to be just that and not have that sluggish feel that comes with a rig and animations not intended to be used for her.


------------------------------------------------------------
2. FemShep & screenshots
------------------------------------------------------------

Seeing femShep in her bonus armours for future DLCs is important to us. When ME2 bonus items were announced, only male Shepard was shown in the new gear. Armour styles do look different in the game on the different genders. Showing femShep in the armour would allow players to make an informed decision when looking to purchase these DLCs.

We are fairly certain the trend of pre-order bonuses will continue with the release of Mass Effect 3. We would like to see screenshots of femShep in any bonus armours so that we may choose the appropriate place from which to pre-order the game.




That armour looks awesome BioWare! But does it look that good on female Shepard? Those armours have two different appearances and we can only see one.


------------------------------------------------------------
3. Script and Dialogue Issues with Romances/Flirting.
------------------------------------------------------------

There is no need to go into too much detail on this. Just say “Jacob” and everyone who has played femShep understands the problem. Most of the time the dialogue is perfect, but, on occasion, the line or the delivery is cringe worthy. Friendly and positive should not instantly equal romantic attraction.

"I want to be able to have her talk to her crew without sounding like she wants to give them a personal debrief in her quarters" - Akari Tenshi


------------------------------------------------------------
4. Hair and Textures
------------------------------------------------------------

The term that often best describes Mass Effect hairstyles is: Plastic! This is a big issue for femShep players as her hair is often longer and doesn’t have the male marine buzz cut. The textures and lack of movement don’t really flatter her at times.

Limited choice of styles is also an issue. Currently femShep players have to turn to modding if they wish a greater variety. At minimum we would like to see all female hairstyles that exist in the game available at character creation. New and more flattering hairstyles would be a welcome addition.

While not an issue specific to femShep, an improved character creator would be a brilliant feature, even though this is the final game. Mass Effect is still attracting new fans and the current fans want something new. At the very least, we would love to see improvements to skin textures and overall polish.

------------------------------------------------------------
5. Acknowledgement of Shepard's Gender.
------------------------------------------------------------

It is pleasing and helps game immersion when an NPC’s reaction is based on Shepard’s gender. Aside from romances, there are only two places in ME2 where this occurred.

1) The Batarian merc recruiter on Omega
2) Gianna Parasini on Illium.

It really was brilliant to see these unique situations as they help to make the game more personal and add more to the experience. We would like to see more of these situations. Even a simple sir or ma’am distinction helps.

------------------------------------------------------------
6. Armour style is correct so don’t change it
------------------------------------------------------------

This is more a compliment to what is being done right and is really just for reassurance things will be kept as they are.

As previously mentioned, one of femShep’s defining features is she isn’t overly sexualised in what she wears on the battlefield. Her attire is appropriate and fitting. We hope to see this continue.

In the Game Informer article there are a couple of images where female soldiers in ME3 appear to have rather excessive busts. We hope this won’t transfer over to femShep and her armour stays appropriate to her frame.


------------------------------------------------------------
7. Reduced Clipping Issues
------------------------------------------------------------

Worth a mention, although hopefully this will be resolved along with point one. We want to see clipping reduced.

As a direct result of the lack of unique animations, there are several instances where femShep is more prone to clipping due to the fact she occupies the same space as male Shepard, but is obviously smaller and has a different build.

This clipping issue disrupts the equitable experience we all wish to have. If unique animations are inbound, then this should be fixed in ME3. Instances of clipping in ME2 caused a lot of frustration for some players, as the lack of polish appears to be neglect, especially in important scenes.


------------------------------------------------------------


That’s all for now. As said above If any other issues are raised which are appropriate they will be added.


Big Thanks to scampermax who assisted me so much she virtually co-wrote it!

Also thanks jwalker, Akari Tenshi, JamieCOTC and rynluna for massive feedback and guidance

I think those are a number of good improvements and changes.

Now, what would you be willing to give up in exchange? To put more resources to improve something, that means less resources for other things.

[Captain Crash]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

good improvements and changes.

Now, what would you be willing to give up in exchange? To put more resources to improve something, that means less resources for other things.

Thank you.  

In answer to your question...  well I dont think thats really one we can answer.  We are suggesting major issues we had with femshep which we hope Bioware have perhaps already recognised and improved upon.  Some have been around for over a year in the case of animations.  In which case I hope it was on the agenda to begin with.  In this situation Bioware have already prioritised certain things over others.   Additionally we still know very little about ME3.

So I rather not discuss hypothetical situations about cutting other aspects of the game. It wont add to the discussion and will take the topic on a tangent away from femshep. I would rather keep things focused on the topics outlined in the OP.

Modifié par Captain Crash, 24 avril 2011 - 01:34 .

[Thrombin]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Now, what would you be willing to give up in exchange? To put more resources to improve something, that means less resources for other things.

Alternatively, they could just take longer and charge more

[ERJAK2]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

I'll just jump in here and say that

a) I agree with the general idea of this thread
The most important of these issues, to me, is the animations. Second would be just a few more scenes/lines of dialogue that are gender specific. And more importantly, no NPCs addressing Femshep as "sir".
c) The hair animations in general aren't particularly great in the ME games. Miranda's hair looks like a helmet too. It would be nice to see this improved, but it's not a top priority for me. Also, I'd rather see more different (and actually useable...) facial options than eleventy different hairstyles.

I really hope at least the unique animations return in ME3. Unfortunately, according to the statistics that were posted here a while ago, the vast majority of players have male Shepards, so I doubt any of this is very high on BW's list of priorities. But as someone who's 50/50 with two male and two female Shepards... yeah. I'd like to see more attention devoted to Femshep again.

The big thing that bothers me about this is HOW you would want shepards gender to be more obvious. The only people who would make it blatantly obvious are people like the merc recruiter in 2 who implies your a stripper and people who say she or ma'am. The merc...does that, and several people do refer to her as ma'am, and last I checked it is acceptable to call a female military officer sir at times. As for the animations, what difference does it make? So she doesn't swing her hips that much whoopdy do. Don't fix what's not broken.

[LyndseyCousland]

QwibQwib wrote...

<3<3<3<3<3
I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite thread on the forums.

This and:

"I want to be able to have her talk to her crew without sounding
like she wants to give them a personal debrief in her quarters" - Akari Tenshi

This!

I really love FemShep but I would also be happy to see these improvements!

[Gossip]

QwibQwib wrote...

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png[/smilie]
I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite thread on the forums.

I agree with almost everyone the OP pointed, except about the armor.

Rheia wrote...

My personal reaction to the armor in ME2: Where have light and medium suits gone? Why couldn't my Adept or Ilfiltrator wear something that didn't make them look trained to operate anti-tank armor? Sure, heavy made perfect sense for a soldier, but for those whose strengths aren't 'in-your-face' combat? Not so much.

I am not asking for Miranda/Samara style catsuits (though, personally, I'd take them any day over heavy N7). But why not Asari-commando style? Why not something akin to what Liara has, minus the lab coat part?

And, maybe I am just that shallow, but when I see female npc looking slick, sexy and fabulous, I want my character to be have an option to look like that too instead of being constantly stuck with 200lb worth of heavy plate on their frame.

THIS.

I want my femshep at least have the option to be fabulous!

AND....

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

May I suggest PMing some core devs about this thread. At best a random well meaning dev stumbles on
this thread by accident. I think this thread is too important to leave it to chance.

Modifié par Gossip, 24 avril 2011 - 02:31 .

[Interactive Civilian]

ERJAK2 wrote...

Don't fix what's not broken.

The animations in ME2 are broken by default, regardless of gender. So are the clipping issues. They need ought to be fixed for ME3. On the maleShep side, they overdid the hulking he-man of a bada** space marine posture with his running. Then they used the exact same pose and animation for the femShep. Both sides are broken, but femshep moreso because no matter what, she's not a hulking he-man, so a hulking he-man posture doesn't work for her.

Moreso than running, you can see it if you do regular walking (which also has a noticeable limp thrown in as well; a limp that is never apparent in a single cutscene of the game). And, of course, it's worst in sprinting without a weapon drawn. Neither of the characters walk, run, or sprint like a normal human being would, and certainly not with the skill and dexterity one would expect of a trained soldier.

ME1 did running animations just fine. According to someone in another thread, the running animations between maleShep and femShep are actually the same motion, but it is the different shape or pose of femshep's arms that make them appear so different. I can't verify that at the moment (can anyone confirm or deny this?) but, if it's true, then it shows that only a very small change in an already good animation can make it appear either more masculine or feminine.

Animations themselves are a mess and need ought to be fixed, regardless of gender. But, while they are fixing it, if they want to make maleShep move like a hulking he-man, fine. We simply request that they make femShep move like a normal, athletic, soldierly human female.

[edit - small edits]

Modifié par Interactive Civilian, 24 avril 2011 - 02:39 .

[Chuvvy]

Agreed. Also, half of these could be applied to male shep.

*I cannot stress how much I want the point about bust size to be applied to maleshep. He doesn't need a big pair of fake titays, he's fine the way he is.

[Captain Crash]

Gossip wrote...

I agree with almost everyone the OP pointed, except about the armor.

Rheia wrote...

My personal reaction to the armor in ME2: Where have light and medium suits gone? Why couldn't my Adept or Ilfiltrator wear something that didn't make them look trained to operate anti-tank armor? Sure, heavy made perfect sense for a soldier, but for those whose strengths aren't 'in-your-face' combat? Not so much.

I am not asking for Miranda/Samara style catsuits (though, personally, I'd take them any day over heavy N7). But why not Asari-commando style? Why not something akin to what Liara has, minus the lab coat part?

And, maybe I am just that shallow, but when I see female npc looking slick, sexy and fabulous, I want my character to be have an option to look like that too instead of being constantly stuck with 200lb worth of heavy plate on their frame.

THIS.

I want my femshep at least have the option to be fabulous!

I think this is two issues your merging into one.  That of Sexualised armour on femshep. The other new armour styles for her.

New armour styles will have the new things (or old ME styles returning) as mentioned Rheia.  Adepts should look different to heavy soildiers or Vanguards in terms of combat gear I agree.  You want her to look sleak and stylish. It was something I did miss.


The second issue is about the limits to how sexualised it looks.  This is what my point is aimed at.  You still want her combat armour to look like combat armour as thats part of why femshep is great.  She a realistic protagonist who doesnt fit the steriotypical norms of females in gaming. She looks the part and is set for battle and we want her to stay like this.

[QwibQwib]

More muscles for femshep? Sorry people, Femshep's body is perfectly fine. Let's go back to the OP.

[Fiery Phoenix]

QwibQwib wrote...

More muscles for femshep? Sorry people, Femshep's body is perfectly fine. Let's go back to the OP.

Exactly. I wouldn't want a single physical change. She's more than fine for what she is.