412 réponses à ce sujet

[Gossip]

Captain Crash wrote...
I think this is two issues your merging into one.  That of Sexualised armour on femshep. The other new armour styles for her.

New armour styles will have the new things (or old ME styles returning) as mentioned Rheia.  Adepts should look different to heavy soildiers or Vanguards in terms of combat gear I agree.  You want her to look sleak and stylish. It was something I did miss.

The second issue is about the limits to how sexualised it looks.  This is what my point is aimed at.  You still want her combat armour to look like combat armour as thats part of why femshep is great.  She a realistic protagonist who doesnt fit the steriotypical norms of females in gaming. She looks the part and is set for battle and we want her to stay like this.

I agree. I could really care less if she had the HUGE butt like Miranda or if her chest was spilling out like Samara. I just really wish I had some more options when it came to the armor. Something lighter, and more feminine. I realize that FemShep isn't and shouldn't be running around in a catsuit, but I'd like for my Shep to have the option of being more effeminate.

I'm a girly girl, so it would just be nice to maybe have the option of wearing something like Liara wore in the DLC of LOTSB, maybe without the coat. That wouldn't be so bad, right? ;p

Modifié par Gossip, 24 avril 2011 - 03:52 .

[The Tookah]

The ME1 annimations were good for my femShep. Her movements did not jar me out of my gameplay as they do in ME2. The way she sits in ME2 and the way she hitches her pants at the galaxy map feel wrong to me. Granted, I don't know any female career Marines, but those movements feel male. Like others have said, some animation fine tuning would help both genders. I think both Shepards would straighten up in formal wear or dress uniform, not slouch in a chair. A limping gait if Shepard is wounded (low on HP) or at the beginning of ME2 is ok. I actually like her constantly stretching her shoulder. It seems like her cybernetics need calibration. Returning to the ME1 gait would work. I think both genders should be able to move with an atletic grace. There is only a slight difference for gender.

I would like lighter sleeker armor for my Shepard, sleek, not skin tight. I would also like the ability to go offship in casual wear without an arsenal on my back. I generally play infiltrator and I don't like the bulky armor. Some of the modded armors I have seen are great. BioWare could provide a few of that caliber.

Muscle tone: As mentioned, we only see this in the dress or casual cloths. But yes, I think my female Shepard would have strong arms and legs. BW developers should take a good look at Jillian Michaels. She has a very sexy body without double Ds. That said, and off topic, maybe male Shepard should have the option of not being line backer size.

As for dialog, I would like to see an opportunity for friend vs love interest with my squadmates, A positive response should not be a flirt signal.

One last thing that I have not seen mentioned, I do not need that many companions. Six is fine. I want to get to know them and I cannot when there are too many. That is probably a matter of resources. Voice actors cost money. Give me fewer companions with more diaog for them.

[Rheia]

Captain Crash wrote...

Gossip wrote...

I agree with almost everyone the OP pointed, except about the armor.

Rheia wrote...

My personal reaction to the armor in ME2: Where have light and medium suits gone? Why couldn't my Adept or Ilfiltrator wear something that didn't make them look trained to operate anti-tank armor? Sure, heavy made perfect sense for a soldier, but for those whose strengths aren't 'in-your-face' combat? Not so much.

I am not asking for Miranda/Samara style catsuits (though, personally, I'd take them any day over heavy N7). But why not Asari-commando style? Why not something akin to what Liara has, minus the lab coat part?

And, maybe I am just that shallow, but when I see female npc looking slick, sexy and fabulous, I want my character to be have an option to look like that too instead of being constantly stuck with 200lb worth of heavy plate on their frame.

THIS.

I want my femshep at least have the option to be fabulous!

I think this is two issues your merging into one.  That of Sexualised armour on femshep. The other new armour styles for her.

New armour styles will have the new things (or old ME styles returning) as mentioned Rheia.  Adepts should look different to heavy soildiers or Vanguards in terms of combat gear I agree.  You want her to look sleak and stylish. It was something I did miss.


The second issue is about the limits to how sexualised it looks.  This is what my point is aimed at.  You still want her combat armour to look like combat armour as thats part of why femshep is great.  She a realistic protagonist who doesnt fit the steriotypical norms of females in gaming. She looks the part and is set for battle and we want her to stay like this.

Crash, I agree that I have merged two issues into one to some extent when I disagreed with part 6 of your outline, but I did it with two purposes.

First, as you pointed out, I miss and want sleak and stylish light/medium suit options back.

Second, however, is my fear that your phrasing, ' Armour style is correct so don’t change it' can be taken as 'we don't want overly sexualized armor, and Shepard's ME2 armor is perfect the way it is, keep it, don't change a thing! ' Frankly, except for a couple variations, all Shepard specific ME2 armor almost looks like they took the male model, did a couple of quick tweaks around the waist and slapped it back in game as a female version.

Some people like it; and that's fine. But If the developers are adding good looking/more femenine  armor models to companions and npcs,  - I - want in on that change too. I won't subscribe to 'current style is great, no change is needed' notion, sorry. I do get it that a character does not -need- to ooze sex appeal to be attractive. But when majority of my companions (who by the way, also have skills, brains and personality) can pull off attractive attire and blow things up in style while my character is stuck in good ol' hulk of durasteel, well.. I get a little upset.

Modifié par Rheia, 24 avril 2011 - 05:04 .

[Captain Crash]

Rheia wrote...

Crash, I agree that I have merged two issues into one to some extent when I disagreed with part 6 of your outline, but I did it with two purposes.

First, as you pointed out, I miss and want sleak and stylish light/medium suit options back.

Second, however, is my fear that your phrasing, ' Armour style is correct so don’t change it' can be taken as 'we don't want overly sexualized armor, and Shepard's ME2 armor is perfect the way it is, keep it, don't change a thing! ' Frankly, except for a couple variations, all Shepard specific ME2 armor almost looks like they took the male model, did a couple of quick tweaks around the waist and slapped it back in game as a female version.

Some people like it; and that's fine. But If the developers are adding good looking/more femenine  armor models to companions and npcs,  - I - want in on that change too. I won't subscribe to 'current style is great, no change is needed' notion, sorry. I do get it that a character does not -need- to ooze sex appeal to be attractive. But when majority of my companions (who by the way, also have skills, brains and personality) can pull off attractive attire and blow things up in style while my character is stuck in good ol' hulk of durasteel, well.. I get a little upset.

I see exactly where your coming from, so will think about editting my title a little bit then to reflect that this is for over sexualisation.  The concern many of us have is that this stays reasonable. Bioware has done this in ME/ME2 and we want new armours/styles to carry this attitude on.   We still want new armours and in fact I would love to see a return to what ME had really with Light/Heavy variants and styles.

 

[Rheia]

Captain Crash wrote...

I see exactly where your coming from, so will think about editting my title a little bit then to reflect that this is for over sexualisation.  The concern many of us have is that this stays reasonable. Bioware has done this in ME/ME2 and we want new armours/styles to carry this attitude on.   We still want new armours and in fact I would love to see a return to what ME had really with Light/Heavy variants and styles.

I do not think asking for light/medium styles is unreasonable. I mean, even in ME2, the base mesh for them is already in game. After the first unspoiled playthrough, I rarely never play without .ini mods that add either Asari commando (favorite of mine), Liara's Shadow broker armor, or, when I am too lazy to do the whole package load for every new level, medium gladiator armor or medium N7.

They are already in game, even in ME2.

If they are improving on those styles for ME3 for npc use (or keeping them as is), what's stopping them for giving us the option to use it without .ini modding headache?

Modifié par Rheia, 24 avril 2011 - 05:48 .

[Eradyn]

Just posting my support for the OP.

Also, re-FemShep's muscle mass:

We cannot forget that in the ME universe soldiers, especially N7 soldiers, receive highly-specialized implants that amplify their natural abilities. FemShep does not need to look like a beefcake body builder to do the things she does because these future soldiers rely on advanced implants to achieve their results. That said, while I don't think she *needs* more bulk, I am not necessarily opposed to more defined musculature, so long as it is within reason for a fit, active, healthy human woman.

[Selenora]

You have my support as well

[Lapis Lazuli]

As a male who plays fem 90% of the time in all RPGs, I agree wholeheartedly (except for the Jacob dialog thing which I never could understand what the big deal is). The reason I play fem is because if I'm going to sit down and play a game for hours, I'd rather be looking at a female. But if the animations, expressions and build are a mixture of male and female, the purpose is defeated.

[JasonDaPsycho]

Just want to show my support for this cause. My default Shepard has always been the female one. It's still disappointing to see that FemShep ain't getting enough love from BW.

[Rheia]

Lapis Lazuli wrote...

As a male who plays fem 90% of the time in all RPGs, I agree wholeheartedly (except for the Jacob dialog thing which I never could understand what the big deal is).

As a female playing a female protagonist, I can tell you that my personal reaction (shared among a good number of female fans) to the first conversation between Shepard and Jacob on the Normandy was to bleach my ears and unhear it.

There is absolutely no way to avoid heavy innuendo the way Shepard speaks to him. Just listen to her tone of voice. It has this 'I want to drag you and ravish you in my quarters, right now' vibe. It's not even subtle. It's so 'in your face' it isn't even funny. She doesn't talk like that to other companions. There is absolutely no way to avoid this heavy duty 'hitting' on Jacob in her dialog options either, unless you just ignore him and don't talk to him at all.

And the 'priiiiiiize' dialog during his romance ending was all kind of cringeworthy and became a joke among the fem!shep fans.

It's a shame because otherwise Jacob is a great character, and, in my case, would actually be one of the squadmates my Shepard could actually relate to and strike a friendship with. As it stands however, I wouldn't touch him with a 10 feet pole, he just stands there in the armory minding his business.

Modifié par Rheia, 24 avril 2011 - 10:42 .

[MadCat221]

Rheia wrote...

Lapis Lazuli wrote...

As a male who plays fem 90% of the time in all RPGs, I agree wholeheartedly (except for the Jacob dialog thing which I never could understand what the big deal is).

As a female playing a female protagonist, I can tell you that my personal reaction (shared among a good number of female fans) to the first conversation between Shepard and Jacob on the Normandy was to bleach my ears and unhear it.

There is absolutely no way to avoid heavy innuendo the way Shepard speaks to him. Just listen to her tone of voice. It has this 'I want to drag you and ravish you in my quarters, right now' vibe. It's not even subtle. It's so 'in your face' it isn't even funny. She doesn't talk like that to other companions. There is absolutely no way to avoid this heavy duty 'hitting' on Jacob in her dialog options either, unless you just ignore him and don't talk to him at all.

And the 'priiiiiiize' dialog during his romance ending was all kind of cringeworthy to become a joke among the fem!shep fans.

It's a shame because otherwise Jacob is a great character, and, in my case, would actually be one of the squadmates my Shepard could actually relate to and strike a friendship with. As it stands however, I wouldn't touch him with a 10 feet pole, he just stands there in the armory minding his business.

I'm a guy and I can percieve it too when I do a FemShep playthru.  It's... kinda creepy.  I'd be a bit weirded out if I were Jacob.

I am fortunate enough that I have avoided directly viewing the purportedly god-awful "Priiize" scene, but still know of it very well thanks to its infamy.

Modifié par MadCat221, 24 avril 2011 - 10:47 .

[Seboist]

Eradyn wrote...

Just posting my support for the OP.

Also, re-FemShep's muscle mass:

We cannot forget that in the ME universe soldiers, especially N7 soldiers, receive highly-specialized implants that amplify their natural abilities. FemShep does not need to look like a beefcake body builder to do the things she does because these future soldiers rely on advanced implants to achieve their results. That said, while I don't think she *needs* more bulk, I am not necessarily opposed to more defined musculature, so long as it is within reason for a fit, active, healthy human woman.

Nobody's demanding she be a roided up champion body builder but she needs a credible physique. It makes no sense for Sheploo to be as buff as he is and femshep having the same physique as Kelly.

Personally I think she should have the same physique as an MMA fighter like Gina Carano.

img339.imageshack.us/img339/9532/ginacaranoespnbody40.jpg

Modifié par Seboist, 24 avril 2011 - 11:00 .

[Captain Crash]

Rheia wrote...

... medium gladiator armor or medium N7.

They are already in game, even in ME2.

If they are improving on those styles for ME3 for npc use (or keeping them as is), what's stopping them for giving us the option to use it without .ini modding headache?

Well I changed the point title to reflect that its about going overly sexualised in her appearance, rather then keeping her armour the same.   We dont want that, we would love more variety!    Thanks for the feedback Rheia, its great to have positive support and critique to strengthen the thread.


And yes the Jacob dialogue is nothing short of cringeworthy if your not romancing him.  Honestly Akari's quote in the OP sums it up so well I really dont have too much more to add!  

As I said with hair, so many people hack the .ini file just for variety it seems a shame Bioware hasnt included these options more widely. I hope they do it for ME3.  The ME armour styles are still a massive fan favourite!  My femshep wears them all the time on the PC.  

People dont always want the Bulky "N7 Variants" ME2 gives, so you often see (especailly in the femshep thread) players reverting back to old styles. Most frequently with Biotic classes.

[Captain Crash]

Also can people stop linking to pictures to "toned" women and athletes to make a point about body structure.  We know exactly what you mean.


This isnt a thread to show off your favourite real life models!

If you feel the need to link please just use a URL and not an Image.  


Thanks!  

Modifié par Captain Crash, 24 avril 2011 - 11:01 .

[Influ]

Rheia wrote...

Lapis Lazuli wrote...

As a male who plays fem 90% of the time in all RPGs, I agree wholeheartedly (except for the Jacob dialog thing which I never could understand what the big deal is).

As a female playing a female protagonist, I can tell you that my personal reaction (shared among a good number of female fans) to the first conversation between Shepard and Jacob on the Normandy was to bleach my ears and unhear it.

I can agree as a male femshep player, that talking to Jabob is awkward as hell. Almost every single line is extremely flirty and suggestive including the opening line. I don't even like the character that much, but I'd still like to talk to him without sounding like a nymphomaniac.

Modifié par Influ, 25 avril 2011 - 01:08 .

[Lapis Lazuli]

Rheia wrote...

Lapis Lazuli wrote...

As a male who plays fem 90% of the time in all RPGs, I agree wholeheartedly (except for the Jacob dialog thing which I never could understand what the big deal is).

As a female playing a female protagonist, I can tell you that my personal reaction (shared among a good number of female fans) to the first conversation between Shepard and Jacob on the Normandy was to bleach my ears and unhear it.

There is absolutely no way to avoid heavy innuendo the way Shepard speaks to him. Just listen to her tone of voice. It has this 'I want to drag you and ravish you in my quarters, right now' vibe. It's not even subtle. It's so 'in your face' it isn't even funny. She doesn't talk like that to other companions. There is absolutely no way to avoid this heavy duty 'hitting' on Jacob in her dialog options either, unless you just ignore him and don't talk to him at all.

And the 'priiiiiiize' dialog during his romance ending was all kind of cringeworthy and became a joke among the fem!shep fans.

It's a shame because otherwise Jacob is a great character, and, in my case, would actually be one of the squadmates my Shepard could actually relate to and strike a friendship with. As it stands however, I wouldn't touch him with a 10 feet pole, he just stands there in the armory minding his business.

Yes, I've heard similar sentiments from a female pov. I think the thinking was that femshep is an agressive kind of woman. And it stands to reason that she would be less agressive with aliens.  And Jennifer Hale is also female and she's an actress who understands emotion evocation. If she didn't cringe and ask for another take, then she may represent a group of females that are in the minority and don't see much wrong with the dialogue or tone.

[The Tookah]

Was Jennifer Hale aware of the context when she voiced the lines? I would lay the motivation of the director. Hale was probably told how to deliver the lines.

[HealthyGiraffe]

This isn't going to make too much of a difference now I'm afraid. I assume the animations have already been completed.

But, I agree with everything that has been said. Fingers crossed!

[Seboist]

The Tookah wrote...

Was Jennifer Hale aware of the context when she voiced the lines? I would lay the motivation of the director. Hale was probably told how to deliver the lines.

The whole point of a director is to direct how the VA should act. Hale can't go in there acting however she wants to.

Which leaves me wondering about the discrepencies between the deliveries of Meer and Hale's lines. It seems like they have two completely different directors in charge of them.

[Captain Crash]

HealthyGiraffe wrote...

This isn't going to make too much of a difference now I'm afraid. I assume the animations have already been completed.

But, I agree with everything that has been said. Fingers crossed!

A lot can still be accomplished still in eight months  So I think alot of things on that list can still be implimented. If not all of them.  Glad you agree and thank you for posting your support. 


In terms of animations we have been making Bioware aware of this for such a long period now.  The first point really reinforces what we have already been stating.  If Bioware do decide not to impliment it, we would expect a good explanation based on the points outlined in the OP.   

[Lunatic LK47]

Seboist wrote...

The Tookah wrote...

Was Jennifer Hale aware of the context when she voiced the lines? I would lay the motivation of the director. Hale was probably told how to deliver the lines.

The whole point of a director is to direct how the VA should act. Hale can't go in there acting however she wants to.

Which leaves me wondering about the discrepencies between the deliveries of Meer and Hale's lines. It seems like they have two completely different directors in charge of them.

Hale in L.A., Meer in Canada.

[PMC65]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

 I do think that the crew of BW is certainly able to find the sweet spot between a male space marine and a female ballet dancer.

The sweet spot between a marine and ballet dancer would be Michelle Yeoh ... The Malaysian actress and dancer who portrayed Yu Shu Lien in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

[Dark_Caduceus]

I haven't done a full Femshep playthrough in ME1 or ME2 yet and I kinda dislike her voice, but I'm all for anything that will make ME3 better as a whole so bring on the Femshep improvements.

[jbadm04]

Good one Captain, I agree with every point.

[Alanosborn1991]

I want a dress store on Earth just so my Hawt Fem Shephard can go on a hour long shopping montage before Reapers fry the jury.