412 réponses à ce sujet

[grlpwer]

QwibQwib wrote...

<3<3<3<3<3
I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite thread on the forums.

I concur!

[Fiery Phoenix]

I am still holding my breathe for BioWare to take full notice of this thread. Suggestions of this caliber can't just go with the wind.

[Rheia]

Lapis Lazuli wrote...

Yes, I've heard similar sentiments from a female pov. I think the thinking was that femshep is an agressive kind of woman. And it stands to reason that she would be less agressive with aliens.  And Jennifer Hale is also female and she's an actress who understands emotion evocation. If she didn't cringe and ask for another take, then she may represent a group of females that are in the minority and don't see much wrong with the dialogue or tone.

Frankly, there is a line between giving a player an opportunity to portray a bold and agressive female protagonist and forcing reactions and dialog down our throats. With Jacob they missed that line. By a mile.

Directing versus voice acting was already touched on, so I'll let the subject rest.

I apologize if I sound uncompromising, or appear to be kicking the dead horse, but 'Jacob issue' is something I feel very strongly about. For me, it's the epitome of how things should not be done in a roleplaying game.

If anyone can recall back to when characters had descriptions when you examined their profile,  ME2 snapshot of Jacob's would be end with "...if you are a female, no matter what your tastes, previous experiences and emotional attachments are, you feel an undeniable, irresistable urge to drag me to your bed. NOW!'". It's unacceptable, and if there is a repeat, well... I'll break something .

Modifié par Rheia, 25 avril 2011 - 08:44 .

[Thrombin]

Rheia wrote...
If anyone can recall back to when characters had descriptions when you examined their profile,  ME2 snapshot of Jacob's would be end with "...if you are a female, no matter what your tastes, previous experiences and emotional attachments are, you feel an undeniable, irresistable urge to drag me to your bed. NOW!'". It's unacceptable, and if there is a repeat, well... I'll break something .

Well Bioware have a duty to be realistic sometimes. These sorts of people exist you know

[lastpatriot]

@ Captain Crash,

Though femShep isn't my cannon Shepard, I have played both ME:1 and ME:2 from her perspective as I have always thought that her voice-acting was profoundly more impressive. As for your comments in the OP, I have to completely agree. I also like how you broke them down into various topics with providing suggestions and compliments where appropriate.

One point I really have to agree with is how you mentioned that femShep has not be over sexualized throughout the game. Personally, I too find that as great credit for BioWare in that a professional soldier isn't going to be doing battle in a bodice.

Overall, I like how BioWare has always given the option to play a female hero for their games though in many ways (that you mentioned), there are areas which the players would like to see improved.

Modifié par lastpatriot, 25 avril 2011 - 09:44 .

[Captain Crash]

Rheia wrote...

Frankly, there is a line between giving a player an opportunity to portray a bold and agressive female protagonist and forcing reactions and dialog down our throats. With Jacob they missed that line. By a mile.

Exactly; This is I think the last chat you have with Jacob once you confirmed your just friends and you have a decent chat with him. Well a decent chat after the initial dialogue.  A few people miss this because of the romance minefield. However even at the start after you established your friendship she still sounds like she coming onto Jacob in an inappropriate manner.

Additionally Jacob is seen as everyones least favorite character and romance option.  If the dialogue wasnt forced and flirty I bet poor Jacob would have a few more fans.   So part of the reason I would like to see it right in ME3 is so the other new characters (or existing ones) arnt damaged because of poor dialogue scripting.

lastpatriot wrote...

@ Captain Crash,

Though femShep isn't my cannon Shepard, I have played both ME:1 and ME:2 from her perspective as I have always thought that her voice-acting was profoundly more impressive. As for your comments in the OP, I have to completely agree. I also like how you broke them down into various topics with providing suggestions and compliments where appropriate.

One point I really have to agree with is how you mentioned that femShep has not be over sexualized throughout the game. Personally, I too find that as great credit for BioWare in that a professional soldier isn't going to be doing battle in a bodice.

Overall, I like how BioWare has always given the option to play a female hero for their games though in many ways (that you mentioned), there are areas which the players would like to see improved.

Thanks for taking the time to write that patriot.    Glad you liked it.

femshep has a lot going for her and really is a great hero and prrotagonist.  Personally I see her as the best in gaming.  Or certainly right near the top!  Its a shame Bioware continues to brush her to one side instead of taking advantage of the fact they have created someone truely amazing.  

[lastpatriot]

Captain Crash wrote...


femshep has a lot going for her and really is a great hero and prrotagonist.  Personally I see her as the best in gaming.  Or certainly right near the top!  Its a shame Bioware continues to brush her to one side instead of taking advantage of the fact they have created someone truely amazing.  

Considering the amount of attention she has received on these forums (femShep thread over 1200 pages...), I'm willing to bet that for ME:3, we'll see some significant improvments in her character and the detail of support she receives from the developers. 

Being that this will be the end of the saga, it would be nice to see her in one of the official trailers of the game.

[Captain Crash]

I hope your right.  After all Jesse Houston stated virtually what you just said.



"Femshep is the Fans Favourite but not marketings" 




Which is also why I hope Bioware can give us some clear answers because if she is loved so much by the fans, why are we felt like were being treated second virtually all the time?

[Shadowbinder]

A vote for new hairstyles! Of course I agree with other points mentioned too and I'm really hoping that Bioware improves femshep for ME3.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Because they're going for the larger picture, Crash, which is the non-fans. That is to say, they market their games for the potential customer, not the current/loyal customer. I don't necessarily agree with the approach, but it seems that's what BioWare believes.

[Centauri2002]

I agree with everything stated in the original post. These things need addressed, particularly the points that affect immersion. The clipping issue may seem minor but when your character's arm goes through another person when they're hugging, it makes you step back and think "huh?"

While we may have the option to play as MaleShep, and have a better catered for experience, there are some of us who choose not to. Shouldn't we be just as appreciated as the people who play solely MaleShep and both?

I think so.

[Captain Crash]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Because they're going for the larger picture, Crash, which is the non-fans. That is to say, they market their games for the potential customer, not the current/loyal customer. I don't necessarily agree with the approach, but it seems that's what BioWare believes.

True, but the point isnt so much about marketing but the fact Bioware have identified who the fan favourite is and continue to neglect her.   As the OP said, we recognise Biowares marketing strategy, but that doesnt mean that they can all together dismiss her. Especially when they want us to have that "equitable experience".    Additionally its a two way street.  DA2 has shown what can happen if you continue to draw in a new crowd and neglect your long time fanbase.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Captain Crash wrote...

(...)

True, but the point isnt so much about marketing but the fact Bioware have identified who the fan favourite is and continue to neglect her.   As the OP said, we recognise Biowares marketing strategy, but that doesnt mean that they can all together dismiss her. Especially when they want us to have that "equitable experience".    Additionally its a two way street.  DA2 has shown what can happen if you continue to draw in a new crowd and neglect your long time fanbase.

Fair point. We'll see if we hear anything today; it's Monday, remember?

[Captain Crash]

centauri2002 wrote...

I agree with everything stated in the original post. These things need addressed, particularly the points that affect immersion. The clipping issue may seem minor but when your character's arm goes through another person when they're hugging, it makes you step back and think "huh?"

While we may have the option to play as MaleShep, and have a better catered for experience, there are some of us who choose not to. Shouldn't we be just as appreciated as the people who play solely MaleShep and both?

I think so.

Thanks centauri, glad to have your support.  I agree with you.  For ME2 I have solely played femshep and these issues are with you throughout your experience playing the game.  Its something you cant really escape from.

I once saw a large thread where male Shep players were discussing about what I considered minor issues about holding and holstering weapons.  It puzzled me as I never even noticed these things because there were far bigger and more apparent problems with femsheps movements and posturing.   It great male Shepard's can get to a point where they can discuss things like this.  But its a shame when femshep players are in a postion where they are saying the whole rig for basic things like walking or running is flawed.

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Fair point. We'll see if we hear anything today; it's Monday, remember?

To be honest I hope their spending time with their families on Easter Monday then working! :happy: 

[Fiery Phoenix]

*smacks self*

[QwibQwib]

It would be nice to know if a dev is reading this...

[Skarwael]

edit: forget what i just posted. off topic.

Modifié par Skarwael, 25 avril 2011 - 02:10 .

[Centauri2002]

Captain Crash wrote...

Thanks centauri, glad to have your support.  I agree with you.  For ME2 I have solely played femshep and these issues are with you throughout your experience playing the game.  Its something you cant really escape from.

I once saw a large thread where male Shep players were discussing about what I considered minor issues about holding and holstering weapons.  It puzzled me as I never even noticed these things because there were far bigger and more apparent problems with femsheps movements and posturing.   It great male Shepard's can get to a point where they can discuss things like this.  But its a shame when femshep players are in a postion where they are saying the whole rig for basic things like walking or running is flawed.

I don't begrudge the MaleShep fans wanting improvement as well, but I definitely think BioWare should improve upon FemShep first. She needs some attention for a change. She's loved by the fans, it would be nice to see that reflected in the development of ME3. 

I'm glad we have someone like you to help push these points in a constructive and eloquent manner, so many thanks for that. :3

[Heather Cline]

Lots of good points in the original post. I also would like to add that many fem shep players are gay be they male or female. We would like to have lesbian/bi/gay romance options in ME3. ME2 lacked that severely. In fact it was stated that all lesbian/bi/gay romances were removed in ME2 and the only nod to the community was bringing back Liara for LotSB and the romance that happened in ME1 with her.

I agree with the separate rig issue in ME2 for femshep. The sitting in the dress, armor problem. Hell the dancing issue alone when you go into a club to dance. The two foot shuffle was stupid. In ME1 femshep had her own dance style and it was unique and awesome. I would spend a good ten to twenty minutes dancing with Liara at Flux in ME1.

Give Femshep her own rig and give her her own animations. Using the male rig in ME2 was a step backwards.

I do however have to point out that in DA2 that femhawke doesn't have a completely unique rig. There are many animations that femhawke has that are distinctly male that should have been fixed which were not. The way she walks in cutscenes up a flight of stairs or when walking up to an NPC. Horrendous.

They need to fix that in ME3 and DA2.

Another thing I agree on is the hair styles, yes there was some improvements to them in ME2 giving them a more organic look even if it still had the plastic feel, they had small hairs sprouting out the side of the head instead of a moulded casting of the head from ME1.

There is much more I could say but these are my feelings on the subject.

[Lapis Lazuli]

Rheia wrote...

Lapis Lazuli wrote...

Yes, I've heard similar sentiments from a female pov. I think the thinking was that femshep is an agressive kind of woman. And it stands to reason that she would be less agressive with aliens.  And Jennifer Hale is also female and she's an actress who understands emotion evocation. If she didn't cringe and ask for another take, then she may represent a group of females that are in the minority and don't see much wrong with the dialogue or tone.

Frankly, there is a line between giving a player an opportunity to portray a bold and agressive female protagonist and forcing reactions and dialog down our throats. With Jacob they missed that line. By a mile.

Directing versus voice acting was already touched on, so I'll let the subject rest.

I apologize if I sound uncompromising, or appear to be kicking the dead horse, but 'Jacob issue' is something I feel very strongly about. For me, it's the epitome of how things should not be done in a roleplaying game.

If anyone can recall back to when characters had descriptions when you examined their profile,  ME2 snapshot of Jacob's would be end with "...if you are a female, no matter what your tastes, previous experiences and emotional attachments are, you feel an undeniable, irresistable urge to drag me to your bed. NOW!'". It's unacceptable, and if there is a repeat, well... I'll break something .

Perhaps the tone in Hale's voice comes from real life attraction

[Captain Crash]

rynluna wrote...

....she is the star of the game.  BioWare should take more pride in their creation. 

This is the hard to swallow part isn't!  The fact they created an amazing protagonist and continue to push her aside for a "marketing image" Shepard.   Or in Bioware's words "Iconic" Shepard.   

Skaldfish did a great post about this here which sums up really well a lot of peoples feelings.  

I ask the same question as few others have.  Has anyone PM'd a dev a link to this thread?

Not yet, with it being the Easter weekend I thought I'd wait to give the thread some time to get some good discussion going. Especailly since they wont read it till tomorrow at the earliest.  The points are there, I just wanted to see how the community as a whole saw the thread first so we could make any changes/adjustments.

Really pleased how positive the feedback has been, so thanks again everyone 

Anyway will get to work sending a pm soon then. Which Dev(s) are in the best postion to answer these issues?  Stanley? Jesse? Christina?  Or shall I do a round robin to a few so they all know its an issue we would like to see replied too?  

Modifié par Captain Crash, 25 avril 2011 - 04:08 .

[kumquats]

No more Basic Instinct moments please
I enjoy playing both genders, but FemShep needs a little more attention.

[Interactive Civilian]

Captain Crash wrote...

Or shall I do a round robin to a few so they all know its an issue we would like to see replied too? 

As long as it's only one message in your usual, reasonable, polite tone (as opposed to a very not like you unreasonable whiny tone message after message after message ), I don't see the harm in CCing it to all of the devs you can think of, being sure to also politely request they pass it on to more relevant people if they have no particular connection to this part of development.

I keep waiting anxiously to see that magical BioWare logo whenever I come to check this thread.